Devious Followers - Continued

[Darkwing241]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Here's the full change history, it can't live on the front page any more, so I'll just post it occasionally. Who really cares anyway?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Changes in 2.13.1

• Fixes follower recruitment and dismissal. Look for the new "Can I rely on you?" dialog to speed up follower recognition.
• Specifically fixes vanilla mercenary handling. If rehiring a merc you may need to ask "Can I rely on you?" to trigger their deviousness.
• The follower now SAYS what modular deal you're being offered before you agree to it.
• Fixed the special quest cuffs left in inventory after forced start ends.
• Added a slider to set the limit of Resistance Fatigue.
• Added information about whether SLS is installed to MCM.
• Tracks resistance losses after you hit 0 will and 0 resistance (does nothing with it, but other mods could).
• Added an entire MCM page of help topics, with an explanation of all the mod fundamentals.
• Some changes to sleep handling, including instant recognition of lives restored so you can pay to remove BlockGeneric devices in inns/homes.
• You can now disable the forced start (where the guard cuffs you) in General. If you disable it while it's running, it will be cleanly terminated and restraints removed.
• Fixed a bug in the mod event handler for adding a follower with gold control. Needs a new game to work properly.
• Complete rewrite of deal making system so that modular and classic deals are fairly allocated. Should also prevent all seriously clashing deals. Post if you get one.
• Should be able to pay off willpower fatigue with priests properly.
• Boredom should be easier to gain and lose.
• Pausing shouldn't trash all your modular deals.
• Pausing should stop force starts from happening while the mod is paused.
• A number of dialog revisions and condition fixes.
• Fixed missing cuffs on adding Ownership deal.
• Follower should no longer offer to remove most devices that are required by deals - heavy bondage is a deliberate exception to this.
• You can now get the follower to remove devious gloves again.
• Improved dialog ordering in some cases - but some deal dialogs may be messed up unless you start a new game or clean-save.
• Modular deal configuration menu lets you disable as many rules as you like. You can disable any rule as long as it is not in use.
• Modular deal configuration menu lets you reduce the number of modular deals in play, even if you have modular deals, as long as you don't have an active rule in a deal that would be removed as a result. Deals are always added or removed in strict order (as shown in the status page of the MCM).
• Removed some rules/help popups and replaced them with follower dialog.
• Fixed some misleading or poorly written tooltips.
• Adds new deals:
  • Amulet Deal - wear an unhelpful amulet
  • Ring Deal - wear a hindering ring
  • Circlet Deal - wear a bothersome circlet
  • Sex Deal - must offer sex to the follower.
  • Skooma Deal - must ask follower for skooma to drink. Needs Skooma Whore.
  • Lactacid Deal - must ask follower for lactacid to drink. Needs MME.
  • Milking Deal - follower wants to drink your milk. Must pump it fresh. Needs MME.
  • Key Deal - follower wants all your keys. Don't hold onto keys or you'll get in trouble.

 

Changes in 2.12.2

• Differs from the beta version 2.12.2 uploaded in the forum, it has an extra fix, so spanking cooldown slider now works correctly.
• Changed level-one daily rate slider to use increments of 10.
• Added a slider to configure spanking cooldown.
• Added a cooldown to slut deal hand-on-shoulder (you can still get three together, but no more than three).
• Fixed some issues with debt early-payoff calculation.
• Fixed the cost value shown in the dialogue when the follower offers to remove a device.
• If you load saved settings from 2.11, the upgrade process will re-run to repair them.
• If you are punished for something, the spanking cooldown is immediately expired.
• MCM shows the version.
• Chaos mode deal multiplier does not multiply standard multiplier but replaces it, like lives.
   

Changes in 2.12

• Major overhaul of MCM layouts so less scrolling is required and General page less crowded.
• Reworked willpower regain, especially in MCM - now a min and max regain slider, and no toggle boxes. Min regain is always regained, max regain possible if no devices or deals, get an amount in between based on how many deals and devices you have.
• Total rework of all costs and the level scaling system for costs:
• Daily follower cost is now determined by fixed "cost at level 1" and "cost at level 100" values, along with a difficulty curve (or line).
• You can choose from preset curves, or put in your own exponent value.
• See the main post above for details on the curves.
• Most other costs now scale off the cost per day, so you can set up "fair" scalings and tweak the overall mod difficulty by adjusting only the cost per day values.
• No more need to constantly tweak Enslavement Threshold or Maximum Debt (which now has a new, clearer name).
• Punishment Debt and Deal values are all based off the per-day cost.
• Total rework of Chaos system:
• Fixed Chaos updates to they don't only occur if you sleep 6+ hours, but instead occur on all debt updates sleeps.
• Chaos prices are now all scale values too, so your Chaos setup should work with almost any debt configuration.
• Chaos doesn't change or overwrite any of the main settings but is completely separate.
• If you disable Chaos, your regular settings should take over without having been altered or corrupted.
• Chaos settings that are multiplier ARE evenly distributed across the scale range you choose.
• The proportional weighted update of chaos values works properly, even for lives.
• Chaos does not restore follower lives every time you adjust a setting.
• Disable the re-enable Chaos will cause a complete (100%) re-randomization of chaos values.
• Updated old Chaos tooltips which were mainly useless placeholders.
• The hide values now only impacts the special chaos values display on the chaos page, and doesn't change or hide any settings in the main configuration - all those values will continue to work as normal; chaos is just a scale applied on top of them (lives and deal duration are an exception to this, in that either the chaos or the normal value is used, but the two do not interfere with each other).
• Added spanking mechanics:
• Added spanking mechanic, get spanked by your follower, if you are an STA masochist or the follower is bored.
• Added spanking mechanic, get spanked by a guard if you are an STA masochist or female.
• Added mod event to trigger spanking mechanic.
• Added spanking config display in 'other mods' to provide details on animations and patch status.
• Added DF Spank SLAL mini-pack - this is required for spanking animations to work.
• Rewrote code for the follower discarding/abandoning the PC:
• Now adds a belt and plugs in most cases.
• Adds bounties to all holds except one, the one with no bounty is chosen randomly.
• Bounties are additional, instead of forced to a set amount, so if you already have bounties, they may become high.
• When all your items are taken due to SS abandonment-in-lieu-of-enslavement, they aren't simply destroyed, but are put in the chest of the NPC used when the follower takes your items.
• If you refuse the SS slavery pact, you are abandoned with the additional bounties and belt+plugs that have been added for regular abandonment.
• When you are given deals due to SS enslavement, all the enabled classic deals should now be correctly set, and you only gain a limited number of modular deals on top of that. The deals you get from SS enslavement are still a crippling load. You might need to use weird potion to get out of them, but that's something you can only do once.
• The item-recovery container no longer respawns and erases your items, they should now be safe in there indefinitely.
• The default % of items taken has been raised to 50%, but the configured value isn't changed in existing games.
• Item theft code (follower takes your items) rewritten:
• No longer steals SLS licenses or map+compass.
• When you have a stack of items, it will steal a percentage of them, instead of just one.
• High value to weight ratio items are always taken, regardless of percentage.
• You can, on low willpower, pay your debts by asking the follower to take your items. You can still recover them from the khajiit for cheap, assuming you can be bothered to go and find her! The follower only credits you 1/10th of the item value though, so it's probably not a huge exploit. It also costs resistance. If you voluntarily offer your items, at least 50% will be taken, even if you configured the % to be lower than that in the MCM.
• The follower will no longer attempt to steal your items at all if you have set the theft % to zero (you may still offer them to reduce debt as noted above).
• Fixed quest objectives for the stolen item quest: can now reliably see the quest in the journal and find the khajiit trader on the map via quest journal (look in Misc quests).
• Added expensive modular "Deep Debt" deal - this is a seemingly harmless deal with a high buyout cost. It can be obtained multiple times, and as a level 1, 2 or 3 stage in any modular deal. The deep debt buyout cost is not impacted by early buyout scaling and depends on how many stages of deep debt you have in a deal, not what stage they appear at. Added slider to adjust scaling of the expensive "deep debt" deal in the modular deals page.
• Fixed poor/confusing wording in debug add follower dialogs.
• Debug add follower dialogs now only show up on PotentialFollower and PotentialHireling faction members.
• Fixed bug where MCM updates would lead to some MCM entries behaving as OTHER entries until you'd re-visisted every page.
• Fixed willpower-resistance fatigue removal by religious donation - priest dialogs should now show up on all priests.
• Fixed bogus log spam about none items, relating to worn item removal.
• Fixed forced follower start so it doesn't occur while mod is paused.
• Fixed the inappropriate enforcement of deals while enslaved.
• Added variant "debt added" follower announcements, depending on gold-control mode and willpower.
• Reworked device application system for enslavement events.
• Fixed various info/tooltip items that were not displaying, or had bad information, including labels and tooltips on main deals menu page.
• Improved data about debt/gold-control on stats page.
• Raised quest priorities, which should hopefully make more followers reliably devious without causing problems in other mods.
• Fixed broken slider for daily debt increase due to boredom.
• Fixed issue with main debt/deals dialog vanishing at certain willpower levels if you had no deals.
• Fixed issue with boredom, and debt penalties not being reset on enslavement via the "Enslave Me" MCM button.
• If you have no default SS "slaver", your first DF will be assigned to that role. If you set one yourself it always takes precedence.
• Added Simple Slavery enslavement button in Debug menu that works even if SS not present (sort of). Uses as much of the SS enslavement path as it can.
• Fixed display of boredom on main stats page not showing decimal place.
• Rewrote and extended male/female variants for innkeeper modular deal and vendor modular deal scenes.
• Fixed generic bug with foreplay and anal sex not selecting foreplay or anal.
• Improved sex animation selection with respect to devices, for almost all occasions sex is played by DF.
• Fixed merchant + innkeeper deals so that oral isn't used if gagged, vaginal isn't used if belted. (May need new game).
• Fixed equipment weights of whore armor.
• Weird potion now debuffs magic, increases stagger taken, reduces intimidate and has higher weight scaling for armor.
• Can toggle and configure custom whore armor in hardcore mode.
• "Other mods" settings no longer hidden in hardcore mode, so you can still configure/diagnose external feature linkages.
• Fixed walk away from deal dialog so you always get a deal at low willpower. (May need new game).
• Fixed looping dialogs on low will for modular deals.
• Fixed buggy walk away dialogs for modular deals, where the follower would say odd things if you walked away.
• Re-FNIS of animation behavior with latest FNIS-for-modders.
• Added some boredom relief from the denial scenes triggered by the Ownership Deal.
• Added longer delays when giving out multiple devices for a deal.
• Changed the details of penalties to max resistance from devices, if enabled. Removed heavy-bondage from the items that reduce max resistance. Added corset/harness to causes. Doubled the max resistance reduction from collars.
• The boredom interval can now be turned down to 0.25 of a day, and is adjustable in 0.25 increments.
• If you change the boredom interval to make it shorter, it can make the next boredom event occur sooner, instead of waiting for the original timer to elapse before changing the duration (which was causing confusion). Extending the duration will still wait for the current timer to elapse.
• Boredom can now increase even if you have very low willpower. Boredom increases are larger if you have a bigger deficit between actual and expected deals.
• Some notifications are shown about boredom and expected deal changes.
• If you walk away from the follower payment dialog, in most cases, you will pay some amount of cash, usually just 100.
   

Changes in 2.11

• added a display in the MCM to show your "classic" deals, similar to the modular deals feature.
• added a button to restore player controls in the Debug menu.
• added additional dialog if you don't have enough money to impress a priest.
• added a way to get unbound without paying, if your follower bound you in town due to the slut deal.
• added a mechanism to stop classic deals conflicting with modular deals in problematic ways.
• fixed basic follower recruiting for players with no follower framework - DF should activate automatically again.
• fixed problems with excluding ex-followers - should now be able to exclude ex-followers from becoming devious.
• now able to pay priests as intended.
• fixed tape-gag and regular-gag conflict - you shouldn't get these deals together now.
• weird potion scenes made more robust - weird potion weakness should not kick in mid-scene, or while on a horse, or in other silly places.
• corruption of modular deal state - several fixes.
• modular deals - should not give modular crawl and bound in towns deal together.
• fixed processing for the add-follower mod-event - tested for vanilla scenario.
• taking deals now costs some resistance, proportional to deal stage.
• getting a "freebie" deal costs more resistance, to compensate for the freebie a little.
• gold mode now requires > 0 willpower to ask for more gold and > 1 willpower to ask to leave gold control.
• optimize deals tick-box is removed, as it is no longer relevant.
• some dialogue words were changed.
• how the follower speaks to you now depends more on willpower and less on deal count.
• modular deal configuration now allows you to make limited changes to configuration while you have deals.
   

Changes in 2.10

• fixed some mod events that nobody is using yet
• fixed missing message box texts for load and save
• subtle change to what version of vanilla DialogueFollower quest that the mod is built against
• cleaned some ESP errors and wild-edits
• this version may fix problems for a small number of people who were having problems with no follower framework installed
• if you don't have problems recruiting or dismissing followers, no need to upgrade
• if you have a follower framework, no need to upgrade
• you might want to upgrade to this if SexLab Survival releases a version that says it needs 2.10+ for some feature
   

Changes in 2.09

• fixed pause mod now stops the guard arrest forced start scenario
• fixed any deal clears all debt
• fixed follower refuses to help remove gags or boots for made-up reasons
• fixed Ownership deal not giving you both sets of cuffs
• fixed enslavement gives you the correct boots and collar, even on old games
• fixed garbled explanation of deals reduce willpower
• added punishment for standing when crawling (if you use SD+)
• added quest device doesn't block all removal (done)
• added debt query dialog no longer has Goodbye flag
• added debug button to try and fix stuck scenes
• added debug button to immediately enslave PC
• added debug buttons to add devices
• added debug buttons to remove devices
• added debug button to repair follower
• added debug button to add 100 debt
• added debug button to reduce resistance
• did a first pass rebalance of resistance losses - you tend to lose a lot more now, but make SLS losses more proportionate
• added rape resistance loss now considers lots more devices
• added new mod event to consider "severity" when losing resistance (done)
   

Changes in 2.08

• you can set the expected deal limit setting in the MCM
• modders can detect the DF version with no dependency on DF required (for Monoman)
• a couple of little tweaks to games (Jarl game now has two endings, and some similar stuff)
• you can now get devices removed when you have a BlockGeneric device on, in exchange for deals
• collar removal mechanics completely redone
• fixed NFF mod detection info in MCM
• fixed not counting NFF followers
• fixed _df_global script missing from release zip that blocked follower dismissal
• fixed follower collar rage happening outside of towns
• sources for follower mod integration global shims also have developer dummies with _DEV on the end
• some games trigger on slightly higher willpower values than before (so games easier to get)
• very low willpower stops boredom accumulation
• playing games resets boredom and reduces expected deals
   

Changes in 2.07

• built-in support for EFF, AFT and NFF, there are no patches to install any more, FOMOD no longer needed
• added willpower fatigue system
• added follower boredom system
• BlockGeneric items now block all paid-for follower-based item removal (fixes mysterious device removal failures)
• fixed some missing scripts (source was missing from original DF)
• piercings should vibrate again
• should be possible to force forced follower start "pretend to be my master" to initiate
• attempted to fix some issues with forced follower start scenes - should be possible to rescue quest if scene fails
• shouldn't be challenged to show piercings while wearing warmer suit
• first pass on cleaning up the MCM layouts
• new mod event to add a follower and set various deal parameters
• new mod event to restore resistance
• should pick better oral animations
   

Changes in 2.06

• added minimum contract feature - lock in your follower for up to 120 days, defaults to 0.
• added various mod events that can be called to interact with DF.
• fixed weird potion in various ways - forced potion givers must now be members of PotentialFollower, so you can recruit them.
• fixed more issues with forced start where guard makes you pick a master - only triggers on low willpower and bondage combined
• fixed various missing scripts or scripts that were failing compilation
• fixed various enslavement related devices
• fixed various dialog conditions
• cleaned up some faulty dialogs that shouldn't exist any longer
• Thanks to @KLongad Sirtup who made a FOMOD installer. It will put AFT or EFF patch in for you. I'm not actually sure those patches work now. (They will not be needed in 2.07, which will have built-in soft-dep support for AFT, EFF and NFF).
   

Changes in 2.05:

• added new "retro" willpower regain mode, where willpower regained per sleep is limited, and based on deals and devices worn, rather than all regained at once.
• added mechanism to control how resistance is modified as you lose willpower (whether you get more, or less resistance each time you lose a point, and whether it just stays the same (the default)).
• made the feature where you get forced to have a follower by a guard a bit more likely to activate and work correctly (I haven't tested it at all though) but I made a lot of changes there.
• sleeping past six hours gives you willpower, even if you were woken up - what matters is how long you slept.
• if you're caught in the sleep-gag game, you don't regain any willpower.
• more tweaks to dialog and conditions, quite numerous.
• weird potion should be a little bit better.
• fixed (quite) a few device handling operations that trigger from dialog.
• some things that are supposed to help performance - you will never be able to tell, really - it should gradually add up to a slightly more responsive feel as I keep doing it.

 

It's worth more than you think.  I know a lot of people have been away from kink modding due to locked in with family.  It's always nice to see everything new in one place. 

 

BTW Congrats on the release!

[Herowynne]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Here's the full change history, it can't live on the front page any more, so I'll just post it occasionally. Who really cares anyway?

 

I do! I really appreciate mods that provide full change history.

 

I have seen @Monoman1 mention LL's main mod page text size limit, so I understand why the full change log cannot be provided on the main mod page, but it would be really great if you can compose a new page elsewhere for the complete change history. Thanks!

[Scrab]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Here's the full change history, it can't live on the front page any more

"Why I make a simple Post for each major release and just link to that" 101

[Herowynne]

4 hours ago, Br4m said:

Will this get updated to Devious Devices 5.0?

 

I was testing the DFC 2.13.1 beta from @Lupine00 with DD 5.1 on Skyrim SE, and DFC appeared to be working fine with DD 5.x. I did not see any issues related to DD 5.x.

[chuBBies1]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I really hope this fixes the troubles people have been getting with recruitment and dismissal since ... last year.

Should have mentioned this sooner, but uh I'm a forgetful SOB, but last week I specifically tested the dismissal of followers several times and it worked! The previous version of DF would sometimes correctly dismiss a follower but other times something would get borked( possibly user error) and the follower would leave, but not really. After testing this on the prelease a few days ago, however, I didn't see any issues... I'm actually really happy to see this get fixed, thank you.

 

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Some other things like the maid deal or cat deal could be nice, but I think the maid deal is one of those things where for it to be good, it has to be enhanced gradually over a while to make it feature-rich.

Now I really do like the sound of a maid deal, especially if it has depth( not saying this mod isn't deep, it's actually rather comprehensive for a follower overhaul type mod) and entertaining scenarios to accompanying it. The cat deal on the other hand... I may have been intrigued by the maid idea, but now you have my attention lol. 

[Herowynne]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

removes some bogus masters, and the Chicken Race ITM that's been there forever (apparently).

It isn't needed unless you're actually having a dependency issue, or, you want to do an SSE conversion.

 

Much appreciated!

[hexenhaus]

On 9/28/2019 at 2:35 PM, Lupine00 said:

If you are aware of a DF bug, please report it.

I want to get all the kinks out before adding anything new.

 

At the moment, I'm mainly aware of issues relating to being enslaved.

 

Endless mode 'gift/present' might be a bit wrong, but with some of these things you have to guess what it was trying to achieve, and the evidence is self-contradictory.

 

 

Oh, a lot of people probably aren't aware that if you are enslaved, if the follower finds a dress-code violation and adds devices, there's also a cash punishment.

(Debt is usually mentioned in the dialog, but cash is taken - I've changed this to a more ambiguous 'pay' or 'cost').

 

In the scripts, the follower takes half your current held cash each time.

 

If you are in gold control mode - which you will be if it was enabled - then that amounts to a half gold-limit debt increase each time.

If you are not in gold control mode - then you probably won't have any cash to speak of - and it usually results in no penalty at all.

 

I feel this entire mechanic is a little flawed.

• It could be replaced with the MCM-defined punishment amount,
• or perhaps a special enslaved punishment amount,
• or keep the half-cash for gold control and something else if you aren't in gold control,
• or removed entirely.

 

Do people have strong feelings about this?

I think the whole automatic punishment by debt increase is a bit problematic. There could be a parlay with the possibilty to comply or delay. I had it some times now that my debt increased dramatically because I could not comply with a deal, because of wrist restraints or another mod that removed for example a collar and other stuff and I got debt before I was being able to reequip the collar. So maybe a warning and delay before auto-debt or dialogue with possibility to comply would be cool.

 

----------------------------

 

On another note I got the problem that the DF forcegreet dialogue:

 

I got 2 followers, one is a generic follower made into Submissive Lola master and the other one is my actual devious follower, which has all the dialogue. The problem is that the forcegreet only plays on the the non DF follower and often interrupts his own dialogue/forcegreet, for example with the "no keys" or "you caused a fine" forcegreet dialogue. DF's MCM tells me I only have one Devious Follower (as espected) and I tried repairing and even removing the Lola master from DF via MCM, but the forcegreet still plays on the wrong follower.

----------------------------

 

Is there an option to deactivate the Slut deal? If not I would really like an option for it, or some form of tweaking, like a cooldown, or it not playing on other followers etc. If you are forcegreeted it sometimes plays every time...

[Aldid]

4 minutes ago, hexenhaus said:

Is there an option to deactivate the Slut deal? If not I would really like an option for it, or some form of tweaking, like a cooldown, or it not playing on other followers etc. If you are forcegreeted it sometimes plays every time...

The slut deal shouldn't play more than three times in a row, but if you want to prevent it from being given to you you simply have to set the number of allowed stages for that deal to 0.

[hexenhaus]

1 minute ago, Aldid said:

The slut deal shouldn't play more than three times in a row, but if you want to prevent it from being given to you you simply have to set the number of allowed stages for that deal to 0.

Thanks, I wondered about that. But that means that the bound and "cummed" parts of the Slut deal will not be given either, am I right?

[Herowynne]

40 minutes ago, hexenhaus said:

Is there an option to deactivate the Slut deal? If not I would really like an option for it, or some form of tweaking, like a cooldown, or it not playing on other followers etc. If you are forcegreeted it sometimes plays every time

 

This is a feature request for @Lupine00 to consider.

 

I personally think the "cum dumping" feature is one of the most fun parts of DFC, but I really really wish that it was available on its own as a stage 1 modular deal.

 

It is problematic that the excellent "cum dumping" feature is gated behind the Classic Slut deal stage 1 "hand on shoulder" interrupt feature.

 

As @hexenhaus mentioned, the Classic Slut deal stage 1 "hand on your shoulder" interrupt can sometimes interfere with other mods.

[Doobydoob]

Great mod, the story included in the images would make a great mod as an Add-on to the mod if it were made into a Quest. 

[Maddac]

MME just got updated

[Anunya]

Looking forward to trying out the new DFC once it makes it over to SSE

 

I have two questions:

 

1) Looking at the images of Candibelle on your front page, how do you get an elf without the ugly forehead indentation? I've tried a few things, and none of them have worked. It puts a serious dent (ahem) in my plans for an elf playthrough.

 

2) If I set the DF to non-essential using setessential <baseID> 0  will DFC respect that or overwrite it?

 

I know you mention you don't want it to be too easy to get your follower killed deliberately, but I'm hoping to get a game going where the consequences of the Devious Follower dying are terrible, not positive. Basically it'd be a weak PC relying on the DF to adventure; if the DF dies, the PC is very likely sold via Simple Slavery to a new DF and with a deeper level of debt/ slavery.  Even if not, they'd have to deal with any equipped devices in a hostile Skyrim with no follower to protect them. The PC works to get out of slavery/ debt, with any progress being wiped away if the Devious Follower is killed. The ideal position for the PC is with a DF with a small and manageable level of deals, with a risk of slipping further into debt during gameplay (esp. if staying safe), but a risk of disastrous consequences if the DF dies. I know that's not 100% aligned with the original purpose of DFC, but with just a few tweaks I think it'll do the job really well

[Buridan]

1 hour ago, Anunya said:

2) If I set the DF to non-essential using setessential <baseID> 0  will DFC respect that or overwrite it?

 

I've wondered about this too.

 

I've played games where I use NFF's expendable guards feature and SL Defeat to recruit bandits and mercs into my party, with the idea of this pushover girl being taken advantage of by and being the party whore for a revolving door of scoundrels that get replaced as they die off. With Spank That Ass and the proximity rape from SL Adventures tuned high the sexual harassment part is covered but I often find myself missing the financial exploitation aspect from DF with its very well-developed debt and payment system.

 

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

That said, it might need to be faster though. If you've got time to get a key into your inventory and take off a device before detection/confiscation then it's usefulness is a bit more questionable. From what I saw it looks like a periodic scan? Why not go for OnItemAdded? 

If you read my blog post, you'll see it does.

 

It purposely creates a delay, and if I wanted I could control that even more accurately, but I didn't try and pare it down to the wire because somebody with a potato computer might find it unplayable. This is one of those cases where polished feature is a lot more complex than basic feature, because to make it sweet for everyone I'd have to add a slider to tweak the time you have to act, and then modify the enforcement so there's less arbitrary latency - i.e. not use the periodic update to flip the package condition.

 

 

5 hours ago, hexenhaus said:

I think the whole automatic punishment by debt increase is a bit problematic. There could be a parlay with the possibilty to comply or delay. I had it some times now that my debt increased dramatically because I could not comply with a deal, because of wrist restraints or another mod that removed for example a collar and other stuff and I got debt before I was being able to reequip the collar. So maybe a warning and delay before auto-debt or dialogue with possibility to comply would be cool.

This is a long-standing "feature" of DF. It usually works in a way players are happy with, but occasionally you'll get that runaway punishment where you're being hit with debts and you're unable to act to stop it, or you can't even figure out why you're being punished.

 

Arguably, the problem there is not the auto-debt addition, but the lack of recognition of the underlying problem. I can see where this is headed... unfortunately...

 

I fixed some of these issues for certain deals, but it's not possible to solve it completely because it's all handled in dialog conditions. The work required to move deal assignment out of dialog conditions was substantial, and this is a similarly sized problem, maybe smaller due to the lack of the BlockGeneric handling, but similar.

 

So many of the original DF's mechanics rely on dialog conditions and fragments, and that design imposes limitations on what's possible. It's difficult to maintain, and obstructs extension.

 

So, having something like a negotiation ... basically a dialog ... would require making about thirty new dialog trees - not just dialogs but entire trees - and those would have to be driven off forcegreets, though there would only need to be one of those - but people don't like forcegreets. It's completely possible, but it's still a major undertaking. It would also dramatically increase the frequency that players are forced to deal with a forcegreet at some potentially inopportune moment.

 

The key deal has already increased the exposure to forcegreets, and I was mindful of potential hazards from it. While SLS is generous with the forcegreets, it doesn't initiate them in dungeons, so there's a difference in the way they're experienced.

 

 

I'd say that the player has sufficient tools at their disposal to "cheat" around these issues, when they occur, which is not too often:

1. you can simply refund yourself the cash if you think it was ridiculously unfair.
2. you can add items via the debug menu - and that's one reason I added that capability.
3. you can pause the mod
4. you can simply keep away from the follower and generally avoid them helloing you.

I agree none of those things are as nice as some immersive dialog where the follower gives you options:

Spoiler

 

Follower: You aren't wearing your collar. If you won't keep your promises, I'm going to have to add debt.

PC topics:

You're right, please add the debt. (a)

But my hands are tied and my collar was stolen, it's not my fault. (b)

That's ridiculous. I'm doing my best to follow your stupid rules. (c)

Please, I can't afford this, can't we work something out? (d)

Just a moment! Can't you see this is not the time to discuss debt? (e)

 

-a- Follower: I hope that will teach you to amend your behavior. [adds debt]

 

-b- Follower: Here you go. I'll lock this nice collar on for you. Don't lose this one. I'm still charging you for the broken deal though. [adds debt and locks on a collar]

 

High willpower version

-c- Follower: Noted. I'll let you off the debt this time, and I'll lock this collar on you, seeing as you can't do it yourself.

 

Low willpower version

-c- Follower: Blaming me for breaking your promises? You need to learn to take responsibility for your failures. How do you suggest you do that?

PC topics:

Sorry. I'll accept the debt. Please put your collar on me and extend the deal.

I can't cope with any more debt. Could I have a new deal instead please?

Would punishing me physically make up for it?

 

-d- More complexity...

 

-e- Follower backs off and comes back in a minute, assuming not in combat.

 

So it would be significant work for each deal, and there are already 18 classic deal (states) and 26 modular, and the number will only increase. That's 44 dialog trees!

It would add a some fun to the mod, but it would be a lot of work too.

 

 

5 hours ago, Herowynne said:

I personally think the "cum dumping" feature is one of the most fun parts of DFC, but I really really wish that it was available on its own as a stage 1 modular deal.

 

It is problematic that the excellent "cum dumping" feature is gated behind the Classic Slut deal stage 1 "hand on shoulder" interrupt feature.

Adding "cum dumping" as a modular deal is a practical possibility. There's a good chance it could get done, but I can't promise anything concrete.

Binding and naked are already modular deals, give or take - they are both slightly different from the classic slut versions.

 

 

5 hours ago, Herowynne said:

As @hexenhaus mentioned, the Classic Slut deal stage 1 "hand on your shoulder" interrupt can sometimes interfere with other mods.

There is a limit to it, so it shouldn't break anything seriously. Also, there are ways to avoid it, that are designed in - learn to make use of them if you can.

It's already mapped out for possible replacement with something more like the other voluntary "daily" quota driven deals, but I like the uniqueness of it as it is. I'm not sure.

 

 

1 hour ago, Anunya said:

2) If I set the DF to non-essential using setessential <baseID> 0  will DFC respect that or overwrite it?

It won't work. The essential quality comes from the alias so you can't just reset it.

Also, DF has no logic to handle a dead follower. It will create a problem where you have to pay a corpse who you can't dismiss because they're dead.

Really, don't go down that path.

 

If you must kill a follower, pause DF first.

Get a new follower before you unpause and they should inherit all the debts and deals. It's fairly obvious how you could RP that transfer/inheritance.

 

Also, additional followers after the first are not made essential, so by careful selection of the master, you can kill a follower with DF active.

 

TBH, death and dismissal of followers during pause is a sketchy area that I want to give more attention to.

You should be required to have an eligible (non ignored) follower to unpause.

 

 

4 hours ago, Doobydoob said:

the story included in the images would make a great mod as an Add-on to the mod if it were made into a Quest. 

How would that work?

[Anunya]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

It won't work. The essential quality comes from the alias so you can't just reset it.

Also, DF has no logic to handle a dead follower. It will create a problem where you have to pay a corpse who you can't dismiss because they're dead.

Really, don't go down that path.

 

If you must kill a follower, pause DF first.

Get a new follower before you unpause and they should inherit all the debts and deals. It's fairly obvious how you could RP that transfer/inheritance.

 

Also, additional followers after the first are not made essential, so by careful selection of the master, you can kill a follower with DF active.

 

TBH, death and dismissal of followers during pause is a sketchy area that I want to give more attention to.

You should be required to have an eligible (non ignored) follower to unpause.

 

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

 

The thing is, though, it's not really about when I decide the follower should die. The scenario that's happened a few times now is the party is attacked - maybe ambushed - at a time when the PC is not effective in combat and the DF is taken down while the PC is still alive.

 

The ideal outcome from my perspective is that the DF stays dead and the attackers behave the normal way they would - so if they're bandits they might go "who's this little morsel we have here" or whatever, if they're spiders they do spider things and so on. Basically at that point, the PC can run for her life (and see what trouble she gets into), surrender, or fight (and be defeated and dealt with with whatever defeat mod is there).

 

It would add a nice bit of uncertainty, and there's something to be said for being handed on and/ or acquired like any other spoil of battle.

 

But it doesn't sound likely, so fair enough.

[Lupine00]

33 minutes ago, Anunya said:

It would add a nice bit of uncertainty, and there's something to be said for being handed on and/ or acquired like any other spoil of battle.

If you do an SD+ surrender at that point, you will be enslaved, and so will the follower.

They will still be a DF though. At that point you pause them.

 

SD+ will then play out, either you are released, or sold, or killed, or escape.

SD+ creature enslavement is super-dull though, and is sometimes impossible to leave because nothing will kill the owner for you.

 

If you have a defeat mod that puts you into SS, your DF should be removed and DF can auto pause at that point.

What happens after will depend on your SS outcome.

 

DF will also work as an SS outcome, and you can configure how that will be done, but actual DF slavery is quite harsh, can sometimes become bugged (save often), and is likely less featureful than where SubLola is now.

 

My thought is that DF should have an option to use SubLola slavery instead of its own, or at least the deviously modified version of it, as an option - and handle the debt situation and slavery end conditions cleanly. I don't see that happening in a hurry, as I have to get much more familiar with what the new SubLola is doing first.

 

If I do that, supporting SD+ would likely also be a possibility, in the same way, and SD+ is probably better in some respects, because it actually has a lot of configurability and interoperation hooks hidden away that nobody uses (so they may well be buggy, but are worth a shot).

 

There aren't really any other slavery mods that are much good for a player. At least in LE. I don't keep much on an eye on what's happening with SE. There's PetProject, but it's not exactly slavery, and of course there's CD, but officially, nobody has that any more. Other, sketchy options are Wolf Club, and Treasure Hunter Whore. At the extreme end, there's Trapped in Rubber, but it's not very DD compatible, probably isn't working well in SE, goes on a long time, and has a slightly incompatible start and premise. Fishburger's Sex Slaves also has a sort of PC slavery option, but it's more of a story quest, and much milder than DF or SubLola. Other than a lot of sex and the odd spank/beating, you'd be hard put to discern any consequences. DCL used to have some slavery, which was pretty strict and quickly got boring, but that's basically stripped out now. The replacement is just random chaos and feels very tiresome, but there are some mods to make it a bit better. The main appeal of DCL (for you) would be that it has quest stories and adventures with ready made plots and characters - this could be a big negative in some respects, so it's all subjective.

 

Also, the DF weird potion might be an interesting plot element in your story. The potion giver doesn't have to be the follower, and can be any potential follower. You don't need to have them in your party, though it's convenient if you do. It depends how you configure it.

[Anunya]

8 hours ago, Herowynne said:

 

I do! I really appreciate mods that provide full change history.

 

I have seen @Monoman1 mention LL's main mod page text size limit, so I understand why the full change log cannot be provided on the main mod page, but it would be really great if you can compose a new page elsewhere for the complete change history. Thanks!

 

Yeah, change histories are super useful to me as well. They help me decide when and whether to upgrade from a previous version.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Anunya said:

Yeah, change histories are super useful to me as well.

I have put it up on my blog and will link to it from the front-page next time I update it.

The play guide is also there.

 

Suggestions for play guide improvement are invited.

[Anunya]

12 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I have put it up on my blog and will link to it from the front-page next time I update it.

The play guide is also there.

 

Suggestions for play guide improvement are invited.

 

Solid! Thank you.

[candibelle]

8 hours ago, Anunya said:

1) Looking at the images of Candibelle on your front page, how do you get an elf without the ugly forehead indentation? I've tried a few things, and none of them have worked. It puts a serious dent (ahem) in my plans for an elf playthrough.

 

Lots of ripping my hair out fussing over small things in racemenu! : )

 

I use high poly head and do lots of smoothing along the brow with the sculpt tool. Thats also what I used to make her ears stick out farther. Using the cheek shape slider also helps make the face look less angular. Shes still a work in progress as there always ends up being little things that bug me!

[bubba999]

1 hour ago, candibelle said:

 

Lots of ripping my hair out fussing over small things in racemenu! : )

 

I use high poly head and do lots of smoothing along the brow with the sculpt tool. Thats also what I used to make her ears stick out farther. Using the cheek shape slider also helps make the face look less angular. Shes still a work in progress as there always ends up being little things that bug me!

She looks nice. Question: is there a particular pose mod or something that you use to get her to squat like that?

[DayTri]

> Total rewrite of core functionality and huge content update

> Version 2.13.1

[Anunya]

9 hours ago, candibelle said:

 

Lots of ripping my hair out fussing over small things in racemenu! : )

 

LOL!

 

Well, the results look good

 

Quote

 

I use high poly head and do lots of smoothing along the brow with the sculpt tool. Thats also what I used to make her ears stick out farther. Using the cheek shape slider also helps make the face look less angular. Shes still a work in progress as there always ends up being little things that bug me!

 

Thanks! I haven't installed a high poly head nor played around with the sculpting tool. Yet another thing on the list of "something to check out and play around with soon." I'm on my longest playthrough right now (all the way to level 19! Wow!) but the pressure to put it aside and start futzing around with adding new mods to the load order and tweaking things is mounting....

[candibelle]

6 hours ago, bubba999 said:

She looks nice. Question: is there a particular pose mod or something that you use to get her to squat like that?

Thank you! That one should be in HC Poser from Halos site