Devious Followers - Continued

[chuBBies1]

@Lupine00, sorry if my post was a bit lacking in information. I'll try and be more concise on what I have playtested and if any problems arose.

 

1. I upgraded DF from 2.12.2 to 2.13.1 beta mid-playthrough and it seemed to be just fine.

2. From my few hours of play time, it seemed to play well with other mods like SLS, but I did have an issue with it not recognizing the spanking animations.

3. I tried a multitude of deals from equipping restraints, forced to service the follower, and having to interact with NPCs and there didn't seem to be any problems. I also tried unequipping restraints and the new ring/ circlets and I was punished with debt accordingly.

4. The gold control worked well, it would update after every cell change and after a few attempts at sleeping I got back in control of my gold.

5. Pausing the mod with both deals and gold control showed no immediate issues. I paused the mod, traveled a bit, cleared a dungeon, turned the mod back on a did a cell change and the gold I accumulated was deducted to what the gold control amount should be.

6. Sleeping worked fine at restoring lives and willpower.

7. Waiting a few hours seemed fine, and the follower would both increase debt and force you to service them if enough time passed.

8. Boredom did accumulate but I never had it too high so I'm not sure if there were any problems with necessarily. 

 

Now concerning my other post, the cuff deal was not a major issue since it very well could have been a modular deal( I tend to skim read when prompts come up, sorry ADHD does that lol), but I may go back and see what exactly these deals were. The key... 'thing' happened to me at a REALLY bad time. I only had about 5 or so minutes of playing before I needed to get off and deal with some IRL things so I didn't have much time to troubleshoot at all. I do remember that I was forced to wear a gag, so when I was talking to the carriage driver he ended up giving me a restraint key( I think that was due to DCL, but I'm not sure). I wasn't paying attention to the top left, so I do not know exactly what was being said at that moment, so I ended up fast traveling and of course my follower, uh didn't follow (ironic). Confused I reloaded that fast travel autosave and saw the Key Search in the top left initialize, and the my follower started talking about not being able to trust me with keys, then punishment. But the Key Search happened again and the follower dialogue started to repeat. I was on borrowed time so I had to get off so any troubleshooting just couldn't be done at that time, but I'm about to hop back on and see what exactly is happening.  

[Lupine00]

37 minutes ago, chuBBies1 said:

but I did have an issue with it not recognizing the spanking animations.

Did you have the DF spanking pack installed and working previously?

 

You shouldn't get the cuffs deal from classic and modular at the same time, so that's still a bug, if that was what happened.

 

The key thing will need more detail to establish if you saw something unexpected or serious, but I'm going to make some changes there, as there are definitely more precautions that could be taken - checking that the follower is near enough, etc.

[chuBBies1]

Yeah, in the MCM before upgrading it recognized I had indeed installed the DF Spank SLAL Mini Pack. After the update, the MCM simply stated I did not have installed( I quickly checked the Animation Loader and it was in fact installed) so I have no clue why that happened.

 

Honestly the cuff deal thing is kind of a non issue as of right now, so I wouldn't be to stressed over it.

 

For the key check, I ended up reloading an earlier save to properly test it instead of blundering my way through. Good news is that it worked cleanly; the key check initialized along with the follower dialogue … and that was it and the game continued. The bad news is that the key check was caused by me buying out of deals. To better explain, I had no restraint, chastity, or piercing keys on my player. I was buying out of my deals and the mod was removing the restraints when appropriate. However, piercings do not get removed, but instead you are given a piercing removal tool. This then caused the follower key check. Again, this go around I had no issue with it, but receiving that tool may be an oversight.

[Lupine00]

38 minutes ago, chuBBies1 said:

so I have no clue why that happened

Probably my bug  I'll look into it.

I don't recall any changes to that, but it's been a long time so there easily could have been.

38 minutes ago, chuBBies1 said:

This then caused the follower key check.

 

The key check has a built-in delay, by design, so that you have a brief chance to use keys you are given or pick up.

 

I didn't disable the key game for this reason. You can still play for keys, and still use them, you just have to be quick about it.

 

In the case that you're given keys by the follower, such as that deal end, I could do something special, but maybe I'll leave such luxuries for now.

I want to get a working version for people as soon as practical - as it's already been a long wait - and if I feature creep, it will drag on forever.

[Buridan]

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It's because your willpower has collapsed.

 

Prior to SLS, you would be deep in deals and devices before this could happen.

It makes a lot of sense if you have "endless mode" enabled, as there's no explicit slavery mode in that case.

I could change this to something more ambiguous. Would people prefer it?

 

Not sure if a tiered system would add a ton of work, but it'd be neat from an immersion point of view. Like, the normal dialogue at high willpower, a more timid, uncertain ones at middling willpower, then the "Master?" dialogue at low willpower.

 

9 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Regaining willpower...

 

You regain willpower, not resistance.

The regain it by sleeping. Not by your follower sleeping. You have to sleep.

The amount you regain depends on your DF configuration option, but usually it will be reduced if you are sleeping in devices.

Wearing devices while you sleep tends to suppress willpower restoration significantly.

Some devices will make more difference than others.

If you're stuck indefinitely in Sanguine's collar, you will notice a reduction in your willpower regains.

 

One thing I discovered when messing around with the MCM options is that the penalties from devices and deals will subtract past zero if you set your base willpower gain too low to begin with, so you passively lose willpower overnight. Nowadays I leave those settings well alone. The default values work as is - they look high but they're actually not.

 

I'm undecided if this is a good thing, or if I'd like willpower to at a minimum not reduce over sleep. It makes sense from an RP perspective that your sense of self-worth and confidence would plummet if you're trapped in bondage and exploitative deals, but on certain (unusual) settings it leads to an unavoidable willpower spiral.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Buridan said:

Not sure if a tiered system would add a ton of work, but it'd be neat from an immersion point of view. Like, the normal dialogue at high willpower, a more timid, uncertain ones at middling willpower, then the "Master?" dialogue at low willpower.

It already has that. It's just that the topics are built around the original DF1.X mechanics, so it can take people by surprise.

Toning down "Master?" to "May we speak?" or something, might suit some, disappoint others. I'm not sure.

 

4 hours ago, Buridan said:

 if you set your base willpower gain too low to begin with, so you passively lose willpower overnight.

It's a feature! Honest!  

Actually a bug, it should be bounded to 0 regain.

 

6 hours ago, chuBBies1 said:

the cuff deal thing

I've found a big chunk of conflict checker that didn't get done due to the sporadic nature of the work. Fixed it. Needs testing.

 

I fixed the special quest cuffs left in inventory after forced start ends. Needs testing.

 

I've also restored the deal extension mechanic. Needs testing.

 

I added a minor improvement to milking mechanics, but no player will ever notice, just slightly more robust.

 

I've added an entire MCM page of help topics, with an explanation of all the mod fundamentals.

 

I haven't looked at the key issues yet, but I have a plan.

• check for follower cell, distance and LOS before triggering (I kind of knew this might come up)
• lock player controls during search
• play an idle anim on PC during search
• sometimes this deal is going to catch you with keys you only just got and it could feel unfair, not really a problem though. Sometimes the follower is mean
• make further improvements in another release

[delgathar]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

I've added an entire MCM page of help topics, with an explanation of all the mod fundamentals.

 

I haven't looked at the key issues yet, but I have a plan.

• check for follower cell, distance and LOS before triggering (I kind of knew this might come up)
• lock player controls during search
• play an idle anim on PC during search
• sometimes this deal is going to catch you with keys you only just got and it could feel unfair, not really a problem though. Sometimes the follower is mean
• make further improvements in another release

 

Wow you've been busy.  Kudos.  It's always great when a MA is active. 

[Vaccinated Alligator]

So, about the deals involving devices, is there anything implemented about your devious follower checking if your locks are manipulated?

 

Imagine the situation: Your follower asks you to use a chastity belt, but you manipulate your lock and ask your follower to wait somewhere, then go to another place, unlock your belt and have as much sex as you can, then return to your follower belted again, with locks manipulated, and he acts as if nothing had happened.

 

The idea to check manipulated locks is to include some kind of "punishment" for the player that manipulates the locks of the devices, increasing debt, or spanking, or taking control of the gold, or something else. It should, of course, be an optional setting.

 

However, it seems that only version 5 of DD includes a function to check if your locks are manipulated, as far as I know. I think it could be a good feature in the future, but there is no need to hurry (since many mods still haven't been updated to DD5 yet).

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, delgathar said:

Wow you've been busy.

Did spend quite a few hours on it.

 

Still things to do though:

1) improve restraint key searching

2) fix animation presence checks

 

Also discovered that I need to redo the device removal dialogs where you make a deal directly from device removal.  

That probably won't get done this release as it would hold things up. It just means you will only be able to get a small subset of deals, and they might be given in a conflicting way.

It's a niche feature, so it can wait for a proper rewrite.

[Lupine00]

22 minutes ago, Vaccinated Alligator said:

So, about the deals involving devices, is there anything implemented about your devious follower checking if your locks are manipulated?

No, and there doesn't really need to be. The follower only cares you wear the device, not that it's locked.

 

I can't check anyway. That would require DD5, which I'm not ready to support.

 

When DD5 is required by DF, then there may be some checks - probably as punishments.

 

 

I think the cheating scenarios are legitimate RP anyway. Why wouldn't you cheat? Why would the follower know?

The problem, if there is one, is that the frustration mechanic won't work properly, which needs fixing in a completely different way anyhow.

[delgathar]

Sorry, I hate to Bug report on an older version, but I'm waiting on SE version of the latest update.  So if this has been fixed, feel free to ignore.

 

I was playing Succubus Heart and used the soul pets function, kinda like pokemon with the pets.  It seems to use a modified follower mechanic.  I made a frostbite spider my pet, and it immediately became a DF after a fight ended speaking the DF welcome dialog.  I used "Disable Nearest NPC" and it says this is not reversible, which implies the NPC is now excluded somehow, but it says you are indebted, release follower.  I do a reset and it says all clear, but one tic later the spider gives me the spiel hoping I'll be better than their last patron.  Repeat every way I know right now did a reset and then pause mod.  Of course I want to add a real DF when I get to town.  DF is supposed to support having multiple followers but only one is DF.  But apparently, it doesn't support only having one follower who is not DF.

Disable lists can get unwieldly, and I'd have to populate it every time I got a new pet, and of course where would this list be stored?  Instead, could you add an option to disable the "add DF scan" so it never automatically adds a DF? 

 

Thank you.

[Lupine00]

You can manually add them to the disable faction.

Target the spider in console.

 

addtofaction XX0B8A73 0

 

where XX is the ID of the DF ESP

If you don't know it, you can find this by typing

help _DFlow

or similar, and using the first two digits of the quest's hex ID.

 

Putting a non-unique like a spider in a disable list means you need to add the base actor and the actual actor for it to work going forward.

But to disable that one spider, it's as above.

You can usually see the base actor ID in the console too, but I'm not sure that you'll be able to "prid" it.

 

The explicitly enabled followers only approach is something I wanted ages ago, but for this and that reason never got around to adding.

If I revamp the disable mechanism I will probably add it as an option, but for this release it's feature creep.

 

I would probably have to modify it so that SLS mod events remove the target from the disable faction though...

Assuming it doesn't exclude ignored NPCs.

[candibelle]

Thank you for the update Lupine!

I gave screen archery a shot for the first time and took some pics of my gal before and after her downward spiral!   It's definitely tough setting everything up between expressions resetting all the time and poses/devious devices causing so much clipping! Still plenty of fun though and I look forward to improving

Next time I should probably choose a more fitting follower!

 

 

Spoiler

 

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[Lyreal]

58 minutes ago, candibelle said:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 What animation is that and where can I get it?

[Lupine00]

New beta:

 

 

Updates as noted earlier, plus improved key searches.

 

I checked spank animation detection and could not find a problem with it.

But you do need to make sure you enable and register the pack's animations in SL Animation Loader.

 

CHANGES:

Spoiler

Changed in this beta:

 

• Fixed conflict checker for quests. Fixed it. Needs testing.
• Fixed the special quest cuffs left in inventory after forced start ends. Needs testing.
• Restored the deal extension mechanic. Needs testing.
• Added a minor improvement to milking mechanics, but no player will ever notice, just slightly more robust.
• Added an entire MCM page of help topics, with an explanation of all the mod fundamentals.
• Improved the key checker mechanics, and fixed a bug where the follower got stuck in the check package, so followers no longer spam the key check.

 

Known bug: SLS enforcers will confiscate the Gaudy Amulet. I believe this can be fixed by some means.

Known bug: paying for "block generic" device removal directly with deals doesn't use the new deal allocation system or conflict avoider; it can give conflicting deals and can only give a limited set of deals.

Suspected bug: willpower restoration can go negative if you have a lot of penalties when sleeping.

Found the likely cause of this - not a bug but a result of extreme resistance fatigue - working as intended? Needs more testing.

 

From previous beta:

 

• Fixes follower recruitment and dismissal.
• Specifically fixes vanilla mercenary handling. If rehiring a merc you may need to ask "Can I rely on you?" to trigger their deviousness.
• Some changes to sleep handling, I can't recall what. Fixes some boredom bug or something?
• You can now disable the forced start in General. If you disable it while it's running, it will be cleanly terminated and restraints removed.
• Fixed a bug in the mod event handler for forcing a follower with gold control. Needs a new game to work properly.
• Complete rewrite of deal making system so that modular and classic deals are fairly allocated. Should also prevent all clashing deals. Post if you get one.
• The follower now SAYS what modular deal you're being offered before you agree to it.
• Should be able to pay off willpower fatigue with priests properly.
• Boredom should be easier to gain and lose.
• Pausing shouldn't trash modular deals any more.
• Pausing should stop forcestarts.
• A number of dialog revisions and condition fixes.
• Maybe fixed missing cuffs on adding Ownership deal.
• Adds new deals:
  • Amulet Deal - wear an unhelpful amulet
  • Ring Deal - wear a hindering ring
  • Circlet Deal - wear a bothersome circlet
  • Sex Deal - must offer sex to the follower.
  • Skooma Deal - must ask follower for skooma to drink. Needs Skooma Whore.
  • Lactacid Deal - must ask follower for lactacid to drink. Needs MME.
  • Milking Deal - follower wants to drink your milk. Must pump it fresh. Needs MME.
  • Key Deal - follower wants all your keys. Don't hold onto keys or you'll get in trouble.

 

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, candibelle said:

I gave screen archery a shot for the first time and took some pics of my gal before and after her downward spiral!

Love the pics. Look fantastic. Will definitely make use of them when I do the release.

 

If you do more, or anyone else has screens they want to show - could be a single screen, or a sequence like these - please post.

It's so cool to see what people are doing with their game.

[Monoman1]

Fyi, I'm getting 'key search timer elapsed' periodically. 

[Lupine00]

10 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

Fyi, I'm getting 'key search timer elapsed' periodically. 

Pay no mind to spurious spam. It's there for beta test.

 

But you win "points" for noticing, and posting about it.
Detailed reports are useful.

 

The "points" are useless, but you can pretend they're actual cookies if you like.

[Karly]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If you do more, or anyone else has screens they want to show - could be a single screen, or a sequence like these - please post.

It's so cool to see what people are doing with their game.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

My setup lacks visual quality so these most likely don't fit in the mods display section but here's my contribution in case you're interested.

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Pay no mind to spurious spam. It's there for beta test.

Mmm, cookies. 

Ok. But eh... I never agreed to the key deal. Unless it's because my willpower is non-existent?

[Buridan]

10 hours ago, delgathar said:

I made a frostbite spider my pet, and it immediately became a DF after a fight ended speaking the DF welcome dialog.

 

The thought of a devious spider going "Rememberrr, I need my fair share too" is hilarious.

[candibelle]

7 hours ago, Lyreal said:

 What animation is that and where can I get it?

The squat is from HC Poser which you can find on halo's site :https://dysintropi.me/current-mods/

The anim is H1CP29

[delgathar]

1 hour ago, Buridan said:

 

The thought of a devious spider going "Rememberrr, I need my fair share too" is hilarious.

 

It was funny.

[delgathar]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

You can manually add them to the disable faction.

Target the spider in console.

 

addtofaction XX0B8A73 0

 

where XX is the ID of the DF ESP

If you don't know it, you can find this by typing

help _DFlow

or similar, and using the first two digits of the quest's hex ID.

 

Putting a non-unique like a spider in a disable list means you need to add the base actor and the actual actor for it to work going forward.

But to disable that one spider, it's as above.

You can usually see the base actor ID in the console too, but I'm not sure that you'll be able to "prid" it.

 

The explicitly enabled followers only approach is something I wanted ages ago, but for this and that reason never got around to adding.

If I revamp the disable mechanism I will probably add it as an option, but for this release it's feature creep.

 

I would probably have to modify it so that SLS mod events remove the target from the disable faction though...

Assuming it doesn't exclude ignored NPCs.

 

Cool, I'll give that a try.  Got a cursed collar and running all over skyrim naked not long after I texted this.  Naturally it disables fast travel, THEN sends me to Winterhold where there are no carriages, so gotta walk somewhere else to find a carriage, meanwhile unleveled dragon spam because TPOS.  Sheesh, I want Lydia as my DF but it looks like Lydia will have to wait.  Last playthrough I made the mistake of adding a DF with the intent to drop when Lydia became available, but dropping a DF is a serious pita once they take control of my gold.

 

I don't know the internals of the mod, so when I resummon, is it the same spider or just a randomly created new one?  But it gives me something to work with.  I made a dragon my pet and it was amusing watching it get mauled by the other dragons, but naturally I would get a cursed collar and have to run around naked on my swordmaster playthrough.

 

Yea, no rush, but maybe SLS is the problem. Thanks for giving me the console comand.  Hopefully it can work into a future release, a rewrite of this release wasn't something I expected. 

[Lyreal]

28 minutes ago, candibelle said:

The squat is from HC Poser which you can find on halo's site :https://dysintropi.me/current-mods/

The anim is H1CP29

Thank you ^^