Devious Followers - Continued

[delgathar]

Thank you.  Lupine.  Now I know so it's all good.  Now on to my next hurdle.  Trying to figure out what combination of mods is causing my character to go instantly to 100 arousal on the tick following anything that would bring her down to zero. 

 

It seems when I add all these great mods and overcome the conflicts, I still have some synergy going on somewhere.  Since I'm trying to make it so that the main game is still playable this seems to be counter to many mods that want to take total control.

 

Survival made me take on a follower to level, but switching followers to Lydia when I got her unlocked was a major pain.  By that point my follower had taken control of my gold and I couldn't get her to give me the option to leave until I had 3000 credit, which she decided to keep, and then my licenses expired.

 

Has anyone else figured a way to make the different mods that affect arousal play nice together.  Everything will be fine for several levels, but then my character becomes so horny that she's always breathing heavy and failing any check that is based off arousal. 

 

I was going to disable milk maid because it isn't helping in this reguard, but did I just see Lupine say that the next update will have MM support?  Maybe I'll keep fiddling with the settings.

 

Is there some "turn off" mod that subtracts from arousal? 

[Herowynne]

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Perhaps some people are confused by this option and think that they must pay for the follower AND for themselves? DF creates no need to do that.

 

Thanks for the information! I was also confused by this aspect of DFC.

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, delgathar said:

Trying to figure out what combination of mods is causing my character to go instantly to 100 arousal on the tick following anything that would bring her down to zero. 

Adding a feature to track that in SLAX would be useful for just about everyone, I think.

The problem there is that the API wasn't designed to let mods indicate the source of arousal for debugging.

Even a log of arousal changes with timestamps and amounts would be a start.

 

But I think if you have SLAX, the amount of debug spam in the Papyrus log is substantial, and would include a lot of data about incoming changes already.

The file that's up was never really intended as a "release".

[cerebus300]

11 hours ago, Herowynne said:

 

Thanks for the information! I was also confused by this aspect of DFC.

Yeah, I had the same confusion for quite a while with this. I would burn 2/3 of the day taking turns sleeping and then having the follower sleep. It seemed insane that we couldn't do it at the same time.  I never found anything that clearly explained what was going on with that feature.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, cerebus300 said:

I never found anything that clearly explained what was going on with that feature.

The dialog itself can't really be different.

 

The innkeeper dialogs come from vanilla, and DF doesn't do anything to them.

Modifying those existing records is a bad idea as it would be conflictorama, and DF never needed to.

DF doesn't do anything special when you rent a room for yourself.

DF simply detects sleep periods. They don't have to be at an inn.

 

It's always been the case - and explained as such in the original DF front page - that sleeping for six hours, whether it's in an inn, or anywhere else, will restore some willpower and restore follower lives. That's now explained in-game instead.

 

Later on, a new feature was added that would let you restore follower lives without restoring willpower.

That feature added some new dialogs to innkeepers that are clear that only the follower gets to sleep - you don't sleep so you don't recover willpower.

The added dialogs are non-conflicting, and explicit about what they do - follower sleeps - though you have to figure out for yourselves that it restores their lives, veterans of 1.X would probably guess.

 

If you already know how willpower works, it's obvious what is intended by only the follower sleeping.

 

 

I think the problem started because I didn't copy all of the material that explained willpower loss and restoration off the old front-page, because it was already on the old front-page.

The updated tooltips in the MCM do provide some explanation of willpower restoration, but it's become increasingly easy to play DF without having to go in and modify dozens of slightly peculiar defaults, so not everyone even looks at that tooltips.

Spoiler

Existing tooltips says:

 

$DF_MIN_WILL_REGAIN_DESC    The minimum amount of willpower you can regain by sleeping six hours or more. Regardless of any deals, devices or modifiers, you will always gain at least this much.
$DF_MAX_WILL_REGAIN_DESC    The maximum amount of willpower you can regain by sleeping six hours or more. The amount gained not be more than this. The amount gained will be reduced proportional to your deal count, and devices that you wear, otherwise you will get the maximum.
$DF_MIN6HSLEEP_NOTI    Having less than 6 hours sleep does nothing for you or your follower.

$DF_FLWLIFES_DESC    Lives are used up when your follower is knocked down (enters bleed-out). They are also used for device removal if your willpower is low. Restore lives by sleeping for at least six hours.

 

In game you get the following welcome message on first follower:

 

== Welcome to Devious Followers ==

X is a hired follower who you must pay or suffer the consequences.
X has lives that are lost when:

- he/she is knocked down -

- he/she removes a device -
- he/she updates your debt -

Sleep for 6+ hours to restore his/her lives.

This will also restore some of your willpower.

 

 

It doesn't say anything about the follower sleeping in the tooltips, or on the frontpage, or in the welcome message, which is a bit of an oversight.

 

The introduction text when you get your first DF is never repeated, so if the player wasn't paying attention that one time, they've missed their chance.

 

 

While I will update the front page to be more explicit about "how to play", not everyone is going to read that, and clearly, not everyone reads the welcome message either.

Sadly, the designers of the MCM system didn't provide for a full-page column-spanning display that could be used for help pages.

SL Adventures used pop-up message boxes to provide help, so that's one way.

 

 

Somebody should have mentioned this sooner. I'm surprised people put up with so much sleeping!

 

The follower room only was originally done a bit different in the alpha-only Devious World add-on.

Who remembers Devious World?

 

SD Cages now puts a cage at every inn, so I'd really like to use that somehow, but it would be a slavery feature, and my tentative plan is to take slavery out of DF entirely and handle it elsewhere.

[delgathar]

looks up.  In hospitality we learned that for every customer that complains, there are at least ten others that silently grit their teeth.   So many people don't want to say something and then stand out. 

 

I so want to get Devious Training to work with my load, but it is so script heavy I'm probably going to have to drop it for now.

[Lupine00]

As there will be a new version soon. Perhaps this week. I want to add some new images for the front-page.

If you have a good screenshot that you think would work well there, please send it to me/post it here.

[delgathar]

I never noticed SLAX before.  Ahh, not available for SE yet.  Looking forward to the port.  Sounds good.

[Lupine00]

24 minutes ago, delgathar said:

I so want to get Devious Training to work with my load, but it is so script heavy I'm probably going to have to drop it for now.

I recommend against it. There isn't really a "release quality" version of it that is ... released.

 

Instead, use Devious Body Alteration and SLD.

DBA will change your body, and SLD can be configured to handle the device training, barefoot, etc.

SLS also has a barefoot feature though it doesn't do anything SLD doesn't already offer far more control over, but you probably don't want to use both  

As SLD enables nothing by default, and the SLS one can be turned off, you've got options.

[delgathar]

16 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I recommend against it. There isn't really a "release quality" version of it that is ... released.

 

Instead, use Devious Body Alteration and SLD.

DBA will change your body, and SLD can be configured to handle the device training, barefoot, etc.

SLS also has a barefoot feature though it doesn't do anything SLD doesn't already offer far more control over, but you probably don't want to use both  

As SLD enables nothing by default, and the SLS one can be turned off, you've got options.

Yeah, Disappointing, because the mod has so much potential, but it really is a huge source of script latency.  I've spent the last two days looking at the scripts looking for ways to improve it.  On the good side, even to my untrained papyrus eye, there are some definite ways to improve it.

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, delgathar said:

there are some definite ways to improve it

But no need really, as DBA, SLD and YPS already do much more without the problems.

 

When DT first appeared, it was a great idea, but it didn't work. Then it was DTII, and it still didn't work. Then there was a "secret" dev version that sort of worked.

And now there's a new alpha/beta, that ... I'll let you decide if that works or not.

 

In the meantime, DBA and SLD came along, YPS came, died, revived again. SLS has things, Devious Lore has things.

 

If DT were suddenly finished and polished up to a high level, it would be a one-stop mod for a bunch of great features, but those other mods above, all do more, and I'd want them anyway, so any future DT needs to bring a lot more to the table, as well as perform adequately.

 

SLD may be an incredibly "boring" mod to look at, and it doesn't sell itself very well, but what it can do for your game is replace about a dozen other mods, or at least make those dozen other mods do what you wanted in the first place, and not whatever suited the mod creator. And when it was made, most of those mods didn't even exist, and never needed to because SLD already did more.

 

That said, there's plenty of room for improvement, and if you want to do things to NPCs rather than the PC, SLD is not going to help you at all.

 

All things permitting, SLD will get more integrations, more inputs, more modifiers, and more events - plus the long planned conditions system, assuming we don't have a repeat of 2020.

[Lupine00]

Here was a is a beta: 

 

Any progress you make with it installed may have to be reverted on proper release.

It has a bit of debug spam that probably won't be in the final.

It has an override for part of MME that must win, for now. Hopefully, new MME release will remove need for this. Or I may change the integration again.

It no longer has any STA files. You need an up to date STA 4.0+

Don't press the TEST button without a follower. Or maybe at all? Pressing it will likely make your debt go strange.

 

Actual bug reports would be appreciated.

 

 

Changes, as best I can remember them, as a lot was done nearly a year ago.

Spoiler

 

• Fixes follower recruitment and dismissal.
• Specifically fixes vanilla mercenary handling. If rehiring a merc you may need to ask "Can I rely on you?" to trigger their deviousness.
• Some changes to sleep handling, I can't recall what. Fixes some boredom bug or something?
• You can now disable the forced start in General. If you disable it while it's running, it will be cleanly terminated and restraints removed.
• Fixed a bug in the mod event handler for forcing a follower with gold control. Needs a new game to work properly.
• Complete rewrite of deal making system so that modular and classic deals are fairly allocated. Should also prevent all clashing deals. Post if you get one.
• The follower now SAYS what modular deal you're being offered before you agree to it.
• Should be able to pay off willpower fatigue with priests properly.
• Boredom should be easier to gain and lose.
• Pausing shouldn't trash modular deals any more.
• Pausing should stop forcestarts.
• A number of dialog revisions and condition fixes.
• Maybe fixed missing cuffs on adding Ownership deal.
• Adds new deals:
  • Amulet Deal - wear an unhelpful amulet
  • Ring Deal - wear a hindering ring
  • Circlet Deal - wear a bothersome circlet
  • Sex Deal - must offer sex to the follower.
  • Skooma Deal - must ask follower for skooma to drink. Needs Skooma Whore.
  • Lactacid Deal - must ask follower for lactacid to drink. Needs MME.
  • Milking Deal - follower wants to drink your milk. Must pump it fresh. Needs MME.
  • Key Deal - follower wants all your keys. Don't hold onto keys or you'll get in trouble.

 

 

I'll probably fix/check some things before final release, but this version is barely tested.

If you want a nice working release, put in some time and test:

Spoiler

 

• Check edge conditions, like mod install mid-play, adding soft-deps mid-play, removing soft-deps mid-play.
• Compare new game vs updating an old game.
• Try with soft-dep mods and interacting mods like SLS.
• Try the deals.
• Try deal combinations.
• Try deliberately breaking deal rules.
• Try MCM items. Do they do what you expect?
• Pausing. Try Pausing with different deal sets.
• Do deals work properly on unpause? 
• Is debt handled correctly on unpause?
• Sleeping interactions.
• Waiting interactions.
• Gold control restored after pause.
• Boredom accumulation.
• Getting rid of willpower fatigue.

 

A known bug. SLS enforcers will confiscate the Gaudy Amulet. I believe this can be fixed by some means.

A known bug. Cuffs left in inventory when you complete the forced start - if you put them on you can't get them off again.

A known bug. Cannot get time extensions on deals when you run out of deals - will be fixed, only just remembered it.

 

 

And don't forget to post your best DF screen shots!  

[delgathar]

Ohh, like the milking deal. 

[chuBBies1]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

If you want a nice working release, put in some time and test:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• Check edge conditions, like mod install mid-play, adding soft-deps mid-play, removing soft-deps mid-play.
• Compare new game vs updating an old game.
• Try with soft-dep mods and interacting mods like SLS.
• Try the deals.
• Try deal combinations.
• Try deliberately breaking deal rules.
• Try MCM items. Do they do what you expect?
• Pausing. Try Pausing with different deal sets.
• Do deals work properly on unpause? 
• Is debt handled correctly on unpause?
• Sleeping interactions.
• Waiting interactions.
• Gold control restored after pause.
• Boredom accumulation.
• Getting rid of willpower fatigue.

 

A known bug. SLS enforcers will confiscate the Gaudy Amulet. I believe this can be fixed by some means.

A known bug. Cuffs left in inventory when you complete the forced start - if you put them on you can't get them off again.

A known bug. Cannot get time extensions on deals when you run out of deals - will be fixed, only just remembered it.

 

 

And don't forget to post your best DF screen shots!  

 

 

When I have time later today, I'll try a little bug testing and see if I can break anything lol. 

[delgathar]

ok, while I wait for the SE conversion.  Just off hand, I had a bug where my follower, and the debug menu for that mattter, couldn't remove a DD.  But I still got stuck with the deal when accepted a deal for having the blindfold removed.  Is there now a check to make sure the item was removed, or is there some way to remove a deal if the follower didn't do her part?

 

Also, while she never formally took me as a slave, there have been a few playthroughs where suddenly I could only address her as "Master?"  A little more RP with that would be nice so I know what is going on behind the scenes.  "I have your money so you will call me Master until I say otherwise," ecc, or whatever.   I've been assuming she was trying to mentally get me used to addressing her that way.

 

[Balgin]

With a brand new save I was able to get a devious follower to offer a legs and cuffs deal when a legs and cuffs deal had already been agreed to.

[Karly]

I was in the process of testing this beta but I have a quick question: Is my follower checking me for keys intended? because that kind of breaks my game since she only follows 3 steps and then stands on the spot for checking and then I get punishment and after that she checks again. This blocks all the forcegreet dialogues.

 

Also I found out that deals seem to overlap (see screenshot) and I couldnt get more than one or two tier 3 deals because at some point the option to make new deals vanishes. I really like the descriptions tho.

Spoiler

 

Hope this helps. I really like this mod.

 

--

 

edit: I updated mid-game

[Anunya]

1 hour ago, delgathar said:

ok, while I wait for the SE conversion.  Just off hand, I had a bug where my follower, and the debug menu for that mattter, couldn't remove a DD.  But I still got stuck with the deal when accepted a deal for having the blindfold removed.  Is there now a check to make sure the item was removed, or is there some way to remove a deal if the follower didn't do her part?

 

Also, while she never formally took me as a slave, there have been a few playthroughs where suddenly I could only address her as "Master?"  A little more RP with that would be nice so I know what is going on behind the scenes.  "I have your money so you will call me Master until I say otherwise," ecc, or whatever.   I've been assuming she was trying to mentally get me used to addressing her that way.

 

 

You have a willpower trait. It starts at, IIRC, 10 every day (i.e. it resets after sleep). Some events will lower your willpower, and some will IIRC lower your max willpower. Once your willpower gets down to 1 or 2 you start calling your follower Master, and they may make decisions for you instead of giving you a choice. If you sleep, your willpower goes back up.

 

Many of the things that drive down willpower are explained in the tool tips for the DFC MCM, but there are also some possible external sources if you have the mods. I have things like whippings and spankings reduce willpower as well, for example. The main ones I've come across are in Submissive Lola: the Resubmission, and (I'm pretty sure at least one of) SL Adventures and SL Survival.

 

The way it the RP worked for me there was that the constant mental battering wore the PC down and she started calling the DFC Follower Master without even really realizing.

[Anunya]

10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Here is a beta: 

Devious Followers 2.13.1 - 20210201-0.7z 11.94 MB · 13 downloads

 

Any progress you make with it installed may have to be reverted on proper release.

It has a bit of debug spam that probably won't be in the final.

It has an override for part of MME that must win, for now. Hopefully, new MME release will remove need for this. Or I may change the integration again.

It no longer has any STA files. You need an up to date STA 4.0+

Don't press the TEST button without a follower. Or maybe at all? Pressing it will likely make your debt go strange.

 

Actual bug reports would be appreciated.

 

 

Changes, as best I can remember them, as a lot was done nearly a year ago.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• Fixes follower recruitment and dismissal.
• Specifically fixes vanilla mercenary handling. If rehiring a merc you may need to ask "Can I rely on you?" to trigger their deviousness.
• Some changes to sleep handling, I can't recall what. Fixes some boredom bug or something?
• You can now disable the forced start in General. If you disable it while it's running, it will be cleanly terminated and restraints removed.
• Fixed a bug in the mod event handler for forcing a follower with gold control. Needs a new game to work properly.
• Complete rewrite of deal making system so that modular and classic deals are fairly allocated. Should also prevent all clashing deals. Post if you get one.
• The follower now SAYS what modular deal you're being offered before you agree to it.
• Should be able to pay off willpower fatigue with priests properly.
• Boredom should be easier to gain and lose.
• Pausing shouldn't trash modular deals any more.
• Pausing should stop forcestarts.
• A number of dialog revisions and condition fixes.
• Maybe fixed missing cuffs on adding Ownership deal.
• Adds new deals:
  • Amulet Deal - wear an unhelpful amulet
  • Ring Deal - wear a hindering ring
  • Circlet Deal - wear a bothersome circlet
  • Sex Deal - must offer sex to the follower.
  • Skooma Deal - must ask follower for skooma to drink. Needs Skooma Whore.
  • Lactacid Deal - must ask follower for lactacid to drink. Needs MME.
  • Milking Deal - follower wants to drink your milk. Must pump it fresh. Needs MME.
  • Key Deal - follower wants all your keys. Don't hold onto keys or you'll get in trouble.

 

 

I'll probably fix/check some things before final release, but this version is barely tested.

If you want a nice working release, put in some time and test:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

• Check edge conditions, like mod install mid-play, adding soft-deps mid-play, removing soft-deps mid-play.
• Compare new game vs updating an old game.
• Try with soft-dep mods and interacting mods like SLS.
• Try the deals.
• Try deal combinations.
• Try deliberately breaking deal rules.
• Try MCM items. Do they do what you expect?
• Pausing. Try Pausing with different deal sets.
• Do deals work properly on unpause? 
• Is debt handled correctly on unpause?
• Sleeping interactions.
• Waiting interactions.
• Gold control restored after pause.
• Boredom accumulation.
• Getting rid of willpower fatigue.

 

A known bug. SLS enforcers will confiscate the Gaudy Amulet. I believe this can be fixed by some means.

A known bug. Cuffs left in inventory when you complete the forced start - if you put them on you can't get them off again.

A known bug. Cannot get time extensions on deals when you run out of deals - will be fixed, only just remembered it.

 

 

And don't forget to post your best DF screen shots!  

 

Looking forward to trying it out in my next playthrough. I have a plan and everything, but I don't think Maer's story is done quite yet.

 

I didn't know you wanted screenshots

 

Spoiler

 

My favourite DFC screenshot is early and RPish rather than overloaded in deals. Here Maer has just been convinced to take on her second deal. First she got her nipples pierced (so hot to do that for your lover), and now she got a clit-hood piercing - to serve as a constant reminder to not take steal stuff and get in trouble. It only makes sense. And, of course, her friend will help manage the party gold.

 

Such an innocent arrangement.

 

 

Later, of course, things got a bit more intense for Maer.

 

 

 

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, delgathar said:

there have been a few playthroughs where suddenly I could only address her as "Master?"

It's because your willpower has collapsed.

 

Prior to SLS, you would be deep in deals and devices before this could happen.

It makes a lot of sense if you have "endless mode" enabled, as there's no explicit slavery mode in that case.

I could change this to something more ambiguous. Would people prefer it?

 

It's rather easy to destroy your willpower now, if you have SLS on default settings and you spend a bit of time in some furniture.

If SLS is behind most of your willpower loss, you might consider either turning that down, or increasing your resistance levels in DF.

 

 

It's all a bit ironic, as a historical issue with DF was that willpower tended to stick at 10, until you got a deal that resulted in rapes while wearing devices, and then willpower would drop off a cliff and in two days it would be zero and stick there. Some considerable effort went into rewriting how resistance worked and how willpower is regained.

 

The first stage of that was the 2.0 "all willpower regained on sleep" mechanic.

That was too much; players now have a lot of control over how to configure willpower restoration to work with their individual game setup.

You can also have resistance increase with each point of willpower lost, which helps to moderate that runaway effect.

 

It may be helpful to understand the mechanics at play here:

 

 

Losing Resistance

 

You don't lose willpower, you lose resistance.

 

Spoiler

Unless some external mod modifies willpower directly, which is strongly discouraged. That's basically breaking DF features and undermining the resistance mechanics that have existed since day one. SLS and STA use the DF mod event to remove resistance, but some older versions of STA did not, and modified willpower directly. Given that SubLola only recently got updated, I'd imagine it uses the mod events if it touches DF willpower at all. I can't really comment on that mod as I haven't tried the new version yet.

 

When you run out of resistance, you lose a point of willpower, and your resistance is reset.

 

What value your resistance is reset to at a given willpower value is adjustable. You can make it increase as you lose willpower, or decrease.

 

The amount of resistance you lose due to DF events is usually small per-event, but they add up, and rapes while wearing devices are scaled. If you're wearing a lot of devices, you can lose a lot of resistance at once from being raped.

 

If you get something like the straightjacket game, or armbinder game in DF, and you have a rape mod that triggers off nakedness or restraints, you will probably find your willpower gets destroyed by that game.

 

If you get enslaved in DF, your resistance will periodically be hit by aggressive sex situations, where you may well be heavily restrained. It can easily destroy your willpower and make it hard to get back.

 

 

Regaining willpower...

 

You regain willpower, not resistance.

The regain it by sleeping. Not by your follower sleeping. You have to sleep.

The amount you regain depends on your DF configuration option, but usually it will be reduced if you are sleeping in devices.

Wearing devices while you sleep tends to suppress willpower restoration significantly.

Some devices will make more difference than others.

If you're stuck indefinitely in Sanguine's collar, you will notice a reduction in your willpower regains.

 

When you sleep, it also restores follower lives; which is an entirely different topic.

Follower lives are basically something that gets used up when the follower is knocked into bleedout, or (in some cases) asked to remove devices.

Once they run out of lives they become quite unhelpful.

 

You restore their lives when you sleep because it is assumed the follower always sleeps when you sleep.

 

You can also restore follower lives by having the follower sleep while you just wait around.

This restores follower lives but does not help your willpower.

I don't advise it unless you can't afford or manage any other scenario - but it does depend on your needs mod.

 

As noted in preceding threads, there is no benefit in having the follower sleep by themselves if you already slept.

There's simply no need to do that.

In normal play, get a room for yourself. Sleep at least six hours to regain willpower. Follower will also sleep and get their lives back.

Or sleep in one of your posh houses. The follower will somehow get the required rest, even if Lydia is snoring loudly in the only other bed.

You can also use a Campfire tent. It will restore willpower and follower lives even if it's a small tent. Perhaps you both get really cosy in there?

 

 

In most cases, your needs mod will penalize you so harshly for missed sleep that you are better off using the SLS kennel to sleep (which will restore follower lives and willpower if you can manage 6 hours straight sleep) than paying for only the follower to sleep, but it is situational. You get a choice and it has consequences. Decide for yourself what is best in your current situation.

 

 

For sleep to "count" you need at least six hours all at once. If you are being woken every hour to get raped, it won't matter if you sleep 12 hours, you won't get any willpower or follower lives back.

 

You can pay a small amount (configurable) to sleep in the cage in the SLS kennel, which results in less awakenings, though you may still not be able to get the full six hours at once required, and you'll probably be in some devices, so it probably won't help your willpower as much as a comfy bed in an inn.

 

[chuBBies1]

 

After some testing, like what @Balgin said, I received a deal to wear arm and leg cuffs after I had agreed to this deal earlier. Another thing of note is when your follower is looking through your inventory for keys. They will stand still and the mod will look for the restraint keys, then after the keys are found you will be punished... which then would seem to loop your follower searching for keys, punishing you then, searching, etc... I will preface that the key issue may have been my doing since I fast traveled RIGHT when the key detection event triggered( that was not on purpose but rather horrible timing). Also if you do fast travel, or carriage, or whatever during the aforementioned key trigger, your companion will not follow you. 

 

Not sure if any of this helped but this is what I've found so far.

 

EDIT: Oh, also this was mid playthrough.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, chuBBies1 said:

After some testing, like what @Balgin said, I received a deal to wear arm and leg cuffs after I had agreed to this deal earlier.

Can you provide more detail on this please.

 

Is this the exact same deal being offered when you already have it?

Or is one of them part of a classic deal, and the other modular?

 

Which did you get first?

 

Screenshots of your deal stats screen before/after would help if you're not sure exactly how to report it.

 

 

1 hour ago, chuBBies1 said:

They will stand still and the mod will look for the restraint keys, then after the keys are found you will be punished... which then would seem to loop your follower searching for keys, punishing you then, searching, etc...

I don't see anything like this at all.

It's theoretically not possible unless something is broken. (Probably something is broken, but what?)

 

Read further if you are testing this...

Spoiler

 

In the case where you're seeing top-left messages saying that it's trying to remove keys, but the follower never fires any dialog, that is an AI package that is failing to start.

That can happen if you have some high priority package running on the follower from another mod, and isn't strictly broken, as the spam is only for debug and in the release you just won't get searched - which is a bit weak, but it won't ruin your game too much.

 

There's nothing I can do about that high priority package issue, except set the DF quest to 100, which strikes me as overkill.

A mod that runs priority 99 or 100 packages on your follower continuously, so that no other mod can ever run its packages is broken, and needs fixing - so DF would not be at fault in this case.

 

I'm not saying that's the problem you have, but you didn't report enough detail for me to know what happened.

Detail in reports is valuable.

 

 

The follower not tracking you when you fast-travel may be related to the mod blocking DF's search, and not DF at all.

 

 

However, if DF is managing to trigger its dialog, which should be obvious, and then the follower is getting hung up searching your massive inventory ... and I suppose that could happen if you have hundreds of things in your inventory, and your computer is a bit slow ... maybe it should aggressively stop you doing stuff during the search?

 

e.g.

The search should lock player controls.

Or the follower should lock you into a dialog while searching, and that has to complete before you can move on.

Either is possible without too much difficulty.

 

I'm not sure, as it might create as many problems as it solves, but it seems wrong that you can wander off and hire a carriage or get on a boat while the follower is trying to search you.

 

 

There are actually two ways to get searched.

One is a forcegreet and the other is a hello.

 

 

The hello should still be able to fire even if the AI package can't run, but it is regulated by a timer that locks it out.

The forcegreet is blocked by the same timer, which is automatically adjusted to a short period if your obtain a key.

Once that runs down, both the forcegreet and the hello are unlocked, but the forcegreet will be explicitly triggered by a periodic update that always runs.

Whether that greet actually happens depends on Skyrim AI package handling.

Theoretically, the forcegreet and the hello could fire in succession, but I didn't see it in any of my testing. I think Skyrim doesn't hello people you just spoke to until some internal timer has elapsed.

 

Also, if you are searched, and immediately get more keys, the forcegreet won't work.

It's some Skyrim "feature" that stops the forcegreet package from running twice in succession.

Some other package has to run before forcegreet can be re-run.

This creates a loophole for the player, but I see that as a feature rather than a bug. It's not like the follower is infallible, and they did just search you.

 

 

I'll see if I can polish up key checks a bit more.

 

I'm looking for more info on experiences with recruitment and dismissal and how that's working now.

The changes to that were done months ago, so I'm not sure if there were things I meant to do and forgot about.

Also, not sure if it's doing exactly what people want.

 

I think [Click Me] and "Can I rely on you?" should appear promptly now, even if the follower doesn't speak the magic words.

Clearly, DF could just silently start running, but Lozeak always avoided that, and I think he was onto something there.

[delgathar]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

It's because your willpower has collapsed.

 

Prior to SLS, you would be deep in deals and devices before this could happen.

It makes a lot of sense if you have "endless mode" enabled, as there's no explicit slavery mode in that case.

I could change this to something more ambiguous. Would people prefer it?

 

It's rather easy to destroy your willpower now, if you have SLS on default settings and you spend a bit of time in some furniture.

If SLS is behind most of your willpower loss, you might consider either turning that down, or increasing your resistance levels in DF.

 

 

Ok, this makes sense.  SLS and STA both seem to annialate resistance.  I walk into a crowd, and at least three slap my character, rarely once, almost always twice, and then the cat calls.  Spending time in the milking contraption and yea, it's hard to keep my willpower up.  This playthrough I'm adjusting the settings a lot higher than before since I'm aiming for a semi-normal game enhanced by DF etc.  But finding that magic range is hard.

 

Generally, in the convo I'm fine with ambiguous.  Something more explicit in the MCM might help.  Player might become enslaved soon if you don't get your willpower back up.  But now that you explained it, I'm good.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, delgathar said:

But finding that magic range is hard.

Furniture is probably going to hit hardest.

Reduce the impact of that to half, or a quarter of default.

The spanking changes are probably ok, if you make the following changes...

 

Increase your base level resistance "Maximum resistance" in the MCM. Something like 30 should be enough.

Setting "Resistance change/will lost" to 2 means you'll get an extra 12 resistance at willpower 4.

 

By default, furniture has too much impact compared to spanking. You can easily spend a long time in furniture, and even a longish milking session will have  big impact. 

 

If you find willpower is dropping too fast, nudge "Resistance change/will lost" up until you get a point you can live with.

If it's not dropping at all, reduce "Maximum resistance".

 

When you're in a good spot, a regular day of basic events - no rapes or other dramatic occurrences - should take you down to around 7, but definitely not to 5 or lower.

 

At that point, a good night's sleep without devices should easily restore you back to 10.

 

Thus, if you then have to wear devices, or are getting raped more than once in a long while, it will tip things into more hazardous territory, but you won't be dipping into situations where the follower starts to take charge without something beyond regular SLS/STA abuse.

 

You might also consider tweaking "Max will regained" down to 5, or even 4, as that will stop big losses being trivially undone.

But if you want to play a fairly strong-willed character who can easily resist the follower, leave it at 7.

In that case, you can still be oppressed, but it is easier to bounce back from isolated incidents.

 

I don't think it makes sense to have a huge willpower variance every day, where you start at 10 and routinely drop to 3 or 4 by bed time.

Fatigue should handle the slow wearing down of the PC's will, and you can set that to 0 if you want to limit that from accumulating, but there will still be things that add it.

[Anunya]

@Lupine00 - okay, I'm going to tell myself I got the broad strokes right, even if I got all the details wrong