DonQuiWho Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 1 hour ago, EinarrTheRed said: Not sure how to answer this. CC Fishing and USSEP are for SE, this is an LE mod that was never converted to SE. I have yet to convert over to SE myself but plan too soonish, until then I can't really address the problems. Regarding Arthmoor, I suppose if enough people asked him he might reconsider, but I really have no control over what he does. I'm not happy about CC content being made mandatory for his mods either, I've always been against CC. Regarding this mod and its SE future. I don't know when I will be able to get back to it. Right now my priority is to continue to update Prettier Bandits and get it converted to SE. After that, I have my Whiterun mod, my Illia / Darklight Towers mod which both need to be finished to a point I can release them (for both LE and SE is the plan), and then a bandit camp mod. Those are all well underway. Once I have those out my plans for this mod is to tear it apart and rebuild it. I never imagined anything else Bethesda would do would conflict as I took a section of wall where the vampire coffin was and moved that. But apparently they've repurposed the same space. Until I can get SE installed and look at what they've done I can't figure out what to do about it and my other projects have priority. Sounds like someone needs to make a version of USSEP that strips out any CC content as masters. If not Arthmoor then someone else. Sorry I can't offer better news. FWIW, updating to SE is well worth it. I'd been a refusnik for a long time, using LE and MO1, whilst waiting until the SE SL base mods were all updated and tested, but having then bit the bullet and gone to SE and MO2 about 6 months ago, that's been the best move I've made since ditching NMM years ago LOL. Personally, I find this combo far superior, even on my old rig, and having updated that 3/4 months ago, there is just no going back It's more stable, it looks good, and plays better
EinarrTheRed Posted March 24, 2022 Author Posted March 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: FWIW, updating to SE is well worth it. I'd been a refusnik for a long time, using LE and MO1, whilst waiting until the SE SL base mods were all updated and tested, but having then bit the bullet and gone to SE and MO2 about 6 months ago, that's been the best move I've made since ditching NMM years ago LOL. Personally, I find this combo far superior, even on my old rig, and having updated that 3/4 months ago, there is just no going back It's more stable, it looks good, and plays better I hear ya and well... here's my story. Spoiler for those who don't give a fuck... ? Spoiler When SE first came out I was very excited, and then I discovered most of my mods wouldn't run on SE and I quickly became very unexcited. But I figured eventually stuff like SKSE and SkyUI and other essentials would get converted and updated and then I'd switch. Then life happened and I found myself really busy with not a lot of time for Skyrim or gaming in general. So even when I wanted to switch, I just didn't have time. Plus I was in the middle of 3 big mod projects and it did not seem like a good time to try an swap over, too many irons in the fire... so it got pushed back. Then AE comes out and you might know as soon as Microsoft gets their mitts on something they start looking for ways to fuck everything up and piss people off... and they did. I figured once again I'd just batten down the hatches and wait. On top of that there was the whole Tara / Chris dispute which I got caught in the middle of without really wanting to be. An I don't want to rehash it but I will say this for the record. I will support Tara in things on this basis if nothing else. Tara helped me when ever I needed it. Whether that was advice or help building the HF Dungeon, to even helping me understand the nif format, editing stuff and making or modifying my own nifs. Chris has never communicated with me at all, never answered an email, and never helped me with anything. So... if I'm going to choose a Zaz furniture pack for my mods, yeah... I'm going with the one that comes with a lot of helpful tech support. Maybe Chris helps other people like that, I don't know... I just know I've gotten zero help or response from him. With PB finally in v1.0 and I'm already working on content for both v1.1 and v1.2 (which means maybe two updates in the not too distant future adding more content, unless I just jinxed myself), and getting ever closer to having my big Whiterun mod ready for an initial release and having my Illia / Darklight Towers mod underway (which I've not even talked about outside my dev group) I figured I was once again getting close to being to a point where switching made sense. But, I do not like nor support CC content. I was not happy about some of it being pretty much forced on us by Microsux. An now hearing that Arthmoor is going along with that... it kinda makes me want to just stay with LE. I probably won't... but it doesn't exactly get me excited about switching. I do know the game does look better, Blackbird has already taken a crack at converting my Whiterun mod over to SE even in its unfinished state... and sent me some screen caps. You think you've seen Whiterun... hooooo boooy... are yall in for a happy surprise. An that mod is not just an appearance mod, it adds over 200 new NPCs to Whiterun, new buildings, new vendors, a whole new district, new stuff outside Whiterun, and the latest project being planned is overhauling the upstairs part of Dragonsreach. Eventually it will have around 80 new quests, and a lot of new options for not just upgrading the new overhauled Breezehome, but upgrades for Whiterun as a whole city. Probably the first thing I'll convert will be Prettier Bandits, at least that's the first item on my conversion to do list. I'm still planning in the next month or two, when time allows, to install SE / AE, figure out how much of the creation crap content I can ditch and if I have to, build an alternate version of USSEP with the CC stuff stripped out. Might as well, I currently maintain a whole extra mod in my load order that is just my fixes to Arthmoors fixes to fix the stuff he breaks with his fixes... ? So... at some point I'll get back to this mod and do something with it. But right now I don't know when that will be or what that will be. One thing I've been asked to do is to take my dungeon and just build my own craftable HF homes... and replace the existing stuff. Easier said than done but the way things are going I'm increasingly tempted, it might be less headache in the long run than whatever screwball changes Microsux throws at us next. I really had thought my connection point for the dungeon was a pretty "safe" placement given it was already in use... little did I know... ? Even if I leave it as part of the existing HF homes, I still need to come up with a new way of connecting the dungeon to the basement or house (I've had the problem described, but I've never seen it or seen a screen cap of the issue). That might end up being a trapdoor floor hatch with the dungeon moved to its own cell, not my favorite option but it might be the best way to avoid future problems. I also want to rebuild the dungeon part itself to better resolve some pathing issues I've noticed and some congestion problems. So whatever I eventually do, it'll be a major project. If Fred wants to help with that, it would be welcome. Or I might say fuck it and just build Stone Bluff Manor outside of Whiterun and leave it at that and say good bye to messing with the HF stuff at all... its a pain in the ass to mod to begin with and Bethesda / Microsux adding to that just doesn't thrill me at all. Whatever I decide, I probably won't decide it on my own, I will likely open it up for discussion here first. All this has to be done in my spare time. I make not one cent off any of this. I've tried setting up a SubscribeStar account to see if that would get any response but so far nothing. An I'm not guilt tripping anyone or anything, I get it, money is tight for a lot of us. Its tight for me too and I'm also having to look for a new job right now. But all that means I have less time for modding than I'd like and with no support coming in at all, well... I have tough choices I have to make. But yeah, some days I sit here an think... well, my LE set up runs very stable, few crashes, I have all the mods and content important to me.... maybe I'll just.... ya know. Oh, an I still do all manual installs and uninstalls. ? I ditched NMM and never looked back years ago and have never even tried MO2. Blackbird and Karlpaws are trying to convert me... wish them luck. ? I'm not saying I'm stubborn but I used to have a summer job teaching mules to be stubborn... poor things, lot of them just never did get my knack for it. ? So... at some point I'll do something with this mod and there will be an SE version that I'll do myself. I just can't say exactly what or when... too much else going on right now. Also apologies for slow responses the last few months... life handed me a bag of lemons, and it turns out I'm shite at making lemonade. But I'm getting back on top of things, one mod project at a time. Right now my focus is mainly Prettier Bandits. I'm also building a lot of content for Blackbird's SBC (yeah, lot of work going on on that mod folks... a LOT of work, be patient it'll be worth it). 1
fred200 Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 4 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said: Not sure how to answer this. CC Fishing and USSEP are for SE, this is an LE mod that was never converted to SE. I have yet to convert over to SE myself but plan too soonish, until then I can't really address the problems. Regarding Arthmoor, I suppose if enough people asked him he might reconsider, but I really have no control over what he does. I'm not happy about CC content being made mandatory for his mods either, I've always been against CC. Regarding this mod and its SE future. I don't know when I will be able to get back to it. Right now my priority is to continue to update Prettier Bandits and get it converted to SE. After that, I have my Whiterun mod, my Illia / Darklight Towers mod which both need to be finished to a point I can release them (for both LE and SE is the plan), and then a bandit camp mod. Those are all well underway. Once I have those out my plans for this mod is to tear it apart and rebuild it. I never imagined anything else Bethesda would do would conflict as I took a section of wall where the vampire coffin was and moved that. But apparently they've repurposed the same space. Until I can get SE installed and look at what they've done I can't figure out what to do about it and my other projects have priority. Sounds like someone needs to make a version of USSEP that strips out any CC content as masters. If not Arthmoor then someone else. Sorry I can't offer better news. Well my solution for the Fishing CC was to just delete the sucker. No harmful side effects. Or course, any time I validate Skyrim AE, Fishing gets re-installed. And I delete it again. None of this changes my opinion of Arthmoor.
DonQuiWho Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 10 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said: I hear ya and well... here's my story. Spoiler for those who don't give a fuck... ? Hide contents When SE first came out I was very excited, and then I discovered most of my mods wouldn't run on SE and I quickly became very unexcited. But I figured eventually stuff like SKSE and SkyUI and other essentials would get converted and updated and then I'd switch. Then life happened and I found myself really busy with not a lot of time for Skyrim or gaming in general. So even when I wanted to switch, I just didn't have time. Plus I was in the middle of 3 big mod projects and it did not seem like a good time to try an swap over, too many irons in the fire... so it got pushed back. Then AE comes out and you might know as soon as Microsoft gets their mitts on something they start looking for ways to fuck everything up and piss people off... and they did. I figured once again I'd just batten down the hatches and wait. On top of that there was the whole Tara / Chris dispute which I got caught in the middle of without really wanting to be. An I don't want to rehash it but I will say this for the record. I will support Tara in things on this basis if nothing else. Tara helped me when ever I needed it. Whether that was advice or help building the HF Dungeon, to even helping me understand the nif format, editing stuff and making or modifying my own nifs. Chris has never communicated with me at all, never answered an email, and never helped me with anything. So... if I'm going to choose a Zaz furniture pack for my mods, yeah... I'm going with the one that comes with a lot of helpful tech support. Maybe Chris helps other people like that, I don't know... I just know I've gotten zero help or response from him. With PB finally in v1.0 and I'm already working on content for both v1.1 and v1.2 (which means maybe two updates in the not too distant future adding more content, unless I just jinxed myself), and getting ever closer to having my big Whiterun mod ready for an initial release and having my Illia / Darklight Towers mod underway (which I've not even talked about outside my dev group) I figured I was once again getting close to being to a point where switching made sense. But, I do not like nor support CC content. I was not happy about some of it being pretty much forced on us by Microsux. An now hearing that Arthmoor is going along with that... it kinda makes me want to just stay with LE. I probably won't... but it doesn't exactly get me excited about switching. I do know the game does look better, Blackbird has already taken a crack at converting my Whiterun mod over to SE even in its unfinished state... and sent me some screen caps. You think you've seen Whiterun... hooooo boooy... are yall in for a happy surprise. An that mod is not just an appearance mod, it adds over 200 new NPCs to Whiterun, new buildings, new vendors, a whole new district, new stuff outside Whiterun, and the latest project being planned is overhauling the upstairs part of Dragonsreach. Eventually it will have around 80 new quests, and a lot of new options for not just upgrading the new overhauled Breezehome, but upgrades for Whiterun as a whole city. Probably the first thing I'll convert will be Prettier Bandits, at least that's the first item on my conversion to do list. I'm still planning in the next month or two, when time allows, to install SE / AE, figure out how much of the creation crap content I can ditch and if I have to, build an alternate version of USSEP with the CC stuff stripped out. Might as well, I currently maintain a whole extra mod in my load order that is just my fixes to Arthmoors fixes to fix the stuff he breaks with his fixes... ? So... at some point I'll get back to this mod and do something with it. But right now I don't know when that will be or what that will be. One thing I've been asked to do is to take my dungeon and just build my own craftable HF homes... and replace the existing stuff. Easier said than done but the way things are going I'm increasingly tempted, it might be less headache in the long run than whatever screwball changes Microsux throws at us next. I really had thought my connection point for the dungeon was a pretty "safe" placement given it was already in use... little did I know... ? Even if I leave it as part of the existing HF homes, I still need to come up with a new way of connecting the dungeon to the basement or house (I've had the problem described, but I've never seen it or seen a screen cap of the issue). That might end up being a trapdoor floor hatch with the dungeon moved to its own cell, not my favorite option but it might be the best way to avoid future problems. I also want to rebuild the dungeon part itself to better resolve some pathing issues I've noticed and some congestion problems. So whatever I eventually do, it'll be a major project. If Fred wants to help with that, it would be welcome. Or I might say fuck it and just build Stone Bluff Manor outside of Whiterun and leave it at that and say good bye to messing with the HF stuff at all... its a pain in the ass to mod to begin with and Bethesda / Microsux adding to that just doesn't thrill me at all. Whatever I decide, I probably won't decide it on my own, I will likely open it up for discussion here first. All this has to be done in my spare time. I make not one cent off any of this. I've tried setting up a SubscribeStar account to see if that would get any response but so far nothing. An I'm not guilt tripping anyone or anything, I get it, money is tight for a lot of us. Its tight for me too and I'm also having to look for a new job right now. But all that means I have less time for modding than I'd like and with no support coming in at all, well... I have tough choices I have to make. But yeah, some days I sit here an think... well, my LE set up runs very stable, few crashes, I have all the mods and content important to me.... maybe I'll just.... ya know. Oh, an I still do all manual installs and uninstalls. ? I ditched NMM and never looked back years ago and have never even tried MO2. Blackbird and Karlpaws are trying to convert me... wish them luck. ? I'm not saying I'm stubborn but I used to have a summer job teaching mules to be stubborn... poor things, lot of them just never did get my knack for it. ? So... at some point I'll do something with this mod and there will be an SE version that I'll do myself. I just can't say exactly what or when... too much else going on right now. Also apologies for slow responses the last few months... life handed me a bag of lemons, and it turns out I'm shite at making lemonade. But I'm getting back on top of things, one mod project at a time. Right now my focus is mainly Prettier Bandits. I'm also building a lot of content for Blackbird's SBC (yeah, lot of work going on on that mod folks... a LOT of work, be patient it'll be worth it). Blimey! Quite a story. You have got a spadeful of troubles. I do wish you well ... BTW, and FWIW, I wasn't advoacating moving to AE. I'm not touching that with a bargepole, for quite a while at least..... At my age you tend to want to change from what you know as little as possible, and get really mad when some clueless 20year old tries to reorganise the world by turning it upside down, all with the notion that they're helping you .... eg Win10! ? But with OpenShell, I can still make mine look almost like 98/XP .... ? Make sure you take time to enjoy what you're doiing. It's all good stuff, and we can wait
EinarrTheRed Posted March 24, 2022 Author Posted March 24, 2022 7 hours ago, fred200 said: Well my solution for the Fishing CC was to just delete the sucker. No harmful side effects. Or course, any time I validate Skyrim AE, Fishing gets re-installed. And I delete it again. Question, there's no option NOT to build the fishing aquarium thing? Heljarchen hall isn't even near any water (the White River is about 3 hours walk away game time), seems like a silly addition for that house. 7 hours ago, fred200 said: None of this changes my opinion of Arthmoor. Well.... yeah. I have mixed feelings about Arthmoor. But ultimately I blame the problem on Bethesda / Microsux. At any rate, I spent a little time this morning looking up what UESP says about fishing and these aquariums. So they took out the coffin, added a hallway and a room... just like I did.... and then moved the coffin into a secret room on the south side... just like I did... ? (Golly, I wonder where they got that idea from?) So I can't put anything over there. Focusing on solutions. It seems like placing a new floor hatch in either the main house or the basement is the best option to fix this, then move my dungeon into a new cell so it has its own space no other mod can mess with. The up side is that even if Bethesda does something else that conflicts with my mod, I can just tweak the location floor hatch again and problem easily solved. The down side is it will probably not be compatible with existing save games (it might, but I wouldn't count on it). This will require a complete rebuild of the mod. So while I'm at it I can improve the layout and add some new options (there have been requests for a mine, a milking room / dairy, and an arena; no promises but I can at least look at adding them). I might make the new dungeon something you build / craft, I think I understand the crafting system well enough now to do that. I could also improve the layout to get rid of some of the pathing and congestion problem (slaves tend to block that one hallway). The real question for me is... where to put the new floor hatch entrance? Put it in the basement Put it in the entry / small house Put it in the main hall Put it in one of the wings (probably the most difficult option, please don't pick this option LOL) Put it outside somewhere So thoughts?
EinarrTheRed Posted March 24, 2022 Author Posted March 24, 2022 20 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: Blimey! Quite a story. You have got a spadeful of troubles. I do wish you well ... Thanks, digging myself out one thing at a time. 20 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: BTW, and FWIW, I wasn't advoacating moving to AE. I'm not touching that with a bargepole, for quite a while at least..... At my age you tend to want to change from what you know as little as possible, and get really mad when some clueless 20year old tries to reorganise the world by turning it upside down, all with the notion that they're helping you .... eg Win10! ? But with OpenShell, I can still make mine look almost like 98/XP .... ? I don't know if I have the option or not. I installed SE once a long time ago and then uninstalled it and have never re-installed since... so from what I've heard it sounds like if I re-install now I'm going to be stuck with AE? I dunno, I'll find out sometime next month probably. And I'm 54, so... right there with ya. 20 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: Make sure you take time to enjoy what you're doiing. It's all good stuff, and we can wait I am, and just as much as that, I'm doing things I'm proud of. I'm finally making Prettier Bandits into what it should have been all along. The new Whiterun mod will blow people's minds and I know that sounds like bragging but... honestly it isn't. That mod has had a high bar from the beginning and I've been working hard to make it into something really special. Plus the new bandit camps for SBC, for people who liked my camps I did in the MBC patch I did... well... you're gonna LOVE this. Then there is my Granite Hills mod which adds that town, then destroys it, then lets you figure out who done it, then lets you rebuild the place. Maybe still do Stone Bluff Manor as a Whiterun expansion, or move it and make it part of my planned Rorikstead mod (Rorikstead is still very much in concepting and figuring out exactly what I want to do there). The mod for Illia / Darklight Towers... well... spoiler again... Spoiler I've always liked Illia, partly because of all the potential followers you get I think she had one of the more interesting introductions. But, I also thought it kind of left things unfinished. So I began with an overhaul of Illia herself, new appearance, better perks, and eventually started experimenting with new spells. Next I started digging into the lore about Darklight Towers to figure out who built it, why and when... turns out the place actually does have an interesting history connected with both the Planemeld and the Oblivion Crisis. Then I dug into the history of witches in Skyrim, because historically witches used to be respected in Skyrim, the Nords left them alone and even sought them for advice... they were more like "wise women"... and then something changed. There were other covens that no longer seem to exist. The more I dug, the more interesting it all got. So I started hatching a mod idea that would overhaul Illia, new appearance, new perks, new spells, maybe a new outfit. Overhaul and expand the towers, adding a few new rooms and turn all the witches inside into unique named witches (kinda like I'm doing with the unique NPCs in PB) Give them new spells that makes them more unique as witches, stuff they don't teach you at Winterhold Give Illia more quests to involve the player in AFTER you finish Darklight so that her story continue and you learn more about her, learn more about the history of the witches and what happened to them, new locations to explore, etc. It'll get released in stages, I'm working on the first part now which is just Illia and the redone towers. The quests and other stuff I'll add later. This mod may also end up having a lot of adult content, still pondering where I want to go with that storyline. So yeah... I got plenty to keep me busy til TES 6 comes out. ? 1
fred200 Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 Trying to think of the spot least likely to be obstructed - how about adjacent to the current basement hatch? I think there is always space there.
moody132 Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 59 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said: The real question for me is... where to put the new floor hatch entrance? Put it in the basement Put it in the entry / small house Put it in the main hall Put it in one of the wings (probably the most difficult option, please don't pick this option LOL) Put it outside somewhere So thoughts? Well as i live in Lakeview on every of my 167 playthroughs, and your dungeon in my main slave-pen place, i would place hatch definitly somewhere in house. As i do not want to go outside with longass loading to get to the hatch to see my slaves going outside, or go through two loading screens when placing it in basement. Eventually you can do two entries, one in house one outside house, i guess it isn't that much of extra work, and now you could bring you slaves to home without exposing them to your family. But that is just idea, i still would prefer hatch inside the house if i had to choose. In case of the room, i have no idea/preferences, maybe do it somewhere in the room with oryginal cellar hatch, if there is any free place when furnitured. 1
EinarrTheRed Posted March 24, 2022 Author Posted March 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, fred200 said: Trying to think of the spot least likely to be obstructed - how about adjacent to the current basement hatch? I think there is always space there. Could be, if so I'll maybe retexture it or something so it looks different and that way its less confusing which is which. I didn't know if people would want it in the front part of the house or something. I'm flexible. 9 minutes ago, moody132 said: In case of the room, i have no idea/preferences, maybe do it somewhere in the room with oryginal cellar hatch, if there is any free place when furnitured. Sounds like two votes for the back room in the main hall. I'll look around in that area. Since its a floor hatch that can be walked over, that opens up some options for placement. 10 minutes ago, moody132 said: As i do not want to go outside with longass loading to get to the hatch to see my slaves going outside, or go through two loading screens when placing it in basement. Eventually you can do two entries, one in house one outside house, i guess it isn't that much of extra work, and now you could bring you slaves to home without exposing them to your family. But that is just idea, i still would prefer hatch inside the house if i had to choose. Fair point and entirely understandable. It shouldn't be too much work to add an extra outside entrance somewhere, I'll have to look at it and in the case of Lakeview also look at another popular Lakeview mod that adds a bunch of stuff outside (so I don't conflict with it if possible). 11 minutes ago, moody132 said: Well as i live in Lakeview on every of my 167 playthroughs, and your dungeon in my main slave-pen place, i would place hatch definitly somewhere in house. I may remove the other changes I made to the interior of the main house, partly because I've been told they conflict with another popular Lakeview mod and people didn't like having to choose. Keep all my stuff in its own cell other than the connecting door hatch. Thanks for the feedback.
moody132 Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, EinarrTheRed said: I may remove the other changes I made to the interior of the main house, partly because I've been told they conflict with another popular Lakeview mod and people didn't like having to choose. Keep all my stuff in its own cell other than the connecting door hatch. Nooo, i like the table switch ; d. 1
EinarrTheRed Posted March 24, 2022 Author Posted March 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, moody132 said: Nooo, i like the table switch ; d. LOL... okay ? Quick check in CK before I have to dash out for the rest of the day. I could put a floor hatch in the small house / entry room where the red square is. Spoiler The advantage here is that you would have access to the dungeon even if you only built the small house part (if for some reason you don't want to build the rest of the house, like in Morthal maybe). Its doesn't require moving or editing anything else, and you or NPC could otherwise walk over it to get to other stuff so it wouldn't be in the way of anything. Or I could put it in the back of the main hall in the opposite corner of the Cellar hatch, next to the workbench. Spoiler This requires you to build the main hall to get access to the dungeon. It also kinda conflicts with the cellar... but only if you care about all the various spaces "lining" up conceptually. If you don't care about that, then there's no issue. Here again its mostly out of the way, can be walked over and so won't block anything. Either works for me so, its whatever you fans want.
Pyreliter Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 I have been enjoying my time at Lakeview Manor by taking advantage of https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/66783. Hearthfire Extended had a small dungeon extension to the BYOH cellar that I found intimate enough to slap some fun'iture down but I was never able to figure out how to get rid of the invisible partition to allow pathing for NPCs to the regular BYOH cellar portion. Would I have any concerns about your intended placement/positioning for your mod and conflicts with Hearthfire Extended ?
EinarrTheRed Posted March 24, 2022 Author Posted March 24, 2022 52 minutes ago, Pyreliter said: Would I have any concerns about your intended placement/positioning for your mod and conflicts with Hearthfire Extended ? The current mod, possibly, not sure. The rebuild being discussed, shouldn't from what I can tell, and if there were the new option of connecting things would make it fairly easy to adjust. Looks like an interesting mod, btw, thanks for the link I'll have to check that out this weekend if I get time.
EinarrTheRed Posted March 24, 2022 Author Posted March 24, 2022 While I'm at it, let me ask some more questions about a rebuilt dungeon. In the current version I included some things like an Elder Scroll display, arrow ammo storage, etc. These weren't really part of the dungeon theme but they were things I had wanted in a HF home (trivia: When I first started building the home, it was really just that extra store room, the dungeon part came later. Originally all I wanted was some extra storage space, a place to put those Elder Scrolls and some other storage features, that's why that stuff is there). My question is, is that still desired or do you want the dungeon space to be "pure dungeon", meaning its just stuff about keeping prisoners, slaves, etc. and a place to amuse yourself with them? No arrow storage, no scroll displays, etc. leave that stuff for other mods?
DonQuiWho Posted March 24, 2022 Posted March 24, 2022 54 minutes ago, EinarrTheRed said: While I'm at it, let me ask some more questions about a rebuilt dungeon. In the current version I included some things like an Elder Scroll display, arrow ammo storage, etc. These weren't really part of the dungeon theme but they were things I had wanted in a HF home (trivia: When I first started building the home, it was really just that extra store room, the dungeon part came later. Originally all I wanted was some extra storage space, a place to put those Elder Scrolls and some other storage features, that's why that stuff is there). My question is, is that still desired or do you want the dungeon space to be "pure dungeon", meaning its just stuff about keeping prisoners, slaves, etc. and a place to amuse yourself with them? No arrow storage, no scroll displays, etc. leave that stuff for other mods? Pure Dungeon, pls! I never ever decorate the homes, other than for adding beds, and delete anything in there that comes with the base construction. It's not somewhere for ppl to put their feet up LOL As for a trap door, concur with 'not outside' for same reasons as @moody132 So in the small initial building part would be just fine. PC can then set up HSH quickly down below, without having to add anything else to get there, and maybe not even bother with the rest if not needed for that game SE/AE You might want to check with the SE/AE set up gurus on that. Apparently there was a way of changing/reversing AE back to last available SE build, and then locking it there. 54!? Phhhttttt! Mere child .... ?
EinarrTheRed Posted March 24, 2022 Author Posted March 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: Pure Dungeon, pls! I never ever decorate the homes, other than for adding beds, and delete anything in there that comes with the base construction. It's not somewhere for ppl to put their feet up LOL Noted, and kinda figured. I'm working on some ideas and concepts to that end. Wait, does trophy mounts for your favorite trophy slaves count? ? 14 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: As for a trap door, concur with 'not outside' for same reasons as @moody132 So in the small initial building part would be just fine. PC can then set up HSH quickly down below, without having to add anything else to get there, and maybe not even bother with the rest if not needed for that game Noted, if I add an exterior entrance, it will be a secondary entrance, but I'm not sure I will at all as it will complicate things in a couple of ways. We'll see. 15 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: SE/AE You might want to check with the SE/AE set up gurus on that. Apparently there was a way of changing/reversing AE back to last available SE build, and then locking it there. Heard that as well, know nothing about it. Will take it one step at a time. 16 minutes ago, DonQuiWho said: 54!? Phhhttttt! Mere child .... ? I will happily accept that. LOL Happy to hear everyone else's thoughts on these issues / ideas, I'm making lots of notes. Give me a day or two and I'll see if I can post a concept for the new build. Since my modding skills have improved quite a bit since I first built this mod and since I'll have to rebuild it anyway... I'm thinking the rebuild will have some new features. Will discuss that more in a couple days. 1
travelmedic Posted March 25, 2022 Posted March 25, 2022 4 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said: While I'm at it, let me ask some more questions about a rebuilt dungeon. In the current version I included some things like an Elder Scroll display, arrow ammo storage, etc. These weren't really part of the dungeon theme but they were things I had wanted in a HF home (trivia: When I first started building the home, it was really just that extra store room, the dungeon part came later. Originally all I wanted was some extra storage space, a place to put those Elder Scrolls and some other storage features, that's why that stuff is there). My question is, is that still desired or do you want the dungeon space to be "pure dungeon", meaning its just stuff about keeping prisoners, slaves, etc. and a place to amuse yourself with them? No arrow storage, no scroll displays, etc. leave that stuff for other mods? I really liked that arrow display actually. An older version of Elysium Estate player home had an arrow and dagger display, and I was really sorry when the mod author took that out in a major update. Some of the extra storage is OK, but I don't need a lot. Maybe something that dynamically displays ingots and ores based on how much is stored, but not a deal breaker. As far as Elder Scrolls and stuff like that for display, I usually use Legacy of the Dragonborn, which has displays for all of that stuff, so I don't need it. Really the one thing I would like is the arrow display, and maybe daggers. 1
DonQuiWho Posted March 25, 2022 Posted March 25, 2022 9 hours ago, travelmedic said: I really liked that arrow display actually. An older version of Elysium Estate player home had an arrow and dagger display, and I was really sorry when the mod author took that out in a major update. Some of the extra storage is OK, but I don't need a lot. Maybe something that dynamically displays ingots and ores based on how much is stored, but not a deal breaker. As far as Elder Scrolls and stuff like that for display, I usually use Legacy of the Dragonborn, which has displays for all of that stuff, so I don't need it. Really the one thing I would like is the arrow display, and maybe daggers. Must add that I wasn't suggesing not having some extra fittings in ETR's dungeon. It's the stuff in the basic Hearthfire homes that I delete/ignore @EinarrTheRed FWIW, I do use the odd slave display mounts but, basically, that's done by mounting them on suitably positioned DM3 devices, the mechanics for which are excellent. I even stack the newly enslaved up in banks of DM3 cages to await their place in the HSH training queues ? 1
EinarrTheRed Posted March 25, 2022 Author Posted March 25, 2022 4 hours ago, DonQuiWho said: Must add that I wasn't suggesing not having some extra fittings in ETR's dungeon. It's the stuff in the basic Hearthfire homes that I delete/ignore I'm just listening and getting an idea what people want. So Q for everyone. Do you really want all those Zaz furnitures options pre-built into it or would you rather have just the open space to place things with DM3 or HSH or some other mod? Not having that furniture prebuilt in would make converting the mod to SE a lot easier (as I'm sure @fred200 can attest) and speed that up. I'm just exploring what people want, so I can do a better job of providing that. For example, in the past people have requested some sort of "dairy" space with milking machines. I could do that but I'm not sure if its really necessary to add the milking machines in or just create a space for it. What if there was a room with a lot of "stalls" and some hay on the floor, a bed, and room you could place milking machines there or whatever else you wanted. That space could be used as a "dairy" for MME users or maybe you're keeping a stable of pony slaves, okay so now its your pony stable. I could decorate it with tack and harness and things like that. Or heck... keep actual animal followers there for all I care. ? Mainly I'm just looking to create spaces people can use for their games and role play that supports that. I'm already getting some ideas and making notes, so keep the discussion up folks. The more you discuss it the more I can fine tune things to give you what you want. If @Ed86 has any advice about how to make it work better with MME, I'm all ears! Same with HSH, @Musje helped with the design of the original mod and maybe we can work together to add some features to both the mod and HSH that work together, up to her but I'm certainly willing. Same goes for @TrollAutokill if we can work together on spaces I provide so that works with things being done in DoM, I'm happy to do that. I'm also open to working with @DeepBlueFrog to add things that could tie in with Kyne's Blessing or Sanguine's Debauchery, just give me suggestions and ideas. I think cross over content between this mod and other mods is a good thing. We just need to figure out what can be done an how that might work. 2
travelmedic Posted March 25, 2022 Posted March 25, 2022 So I found myself using the integrated wall options "sometimes." Other times I did prefer DM. If the integrated ZAZ options weren't there and you had just a couple of cages/cells (like you already have in the back room) and a lot of open space, I'd still be OK with that. Still like having the bed option, maybe also a dining table and a couple of chairs??? I don't know how easy it would be for you to make a fomod installer with options, but I found that I would use xedit to delete the cells for Lakeview and Winstad, and only keeping the HF Dungeon at Heljarchen. I had other mods for the other two homes that didn't work with yours. Deleting the unwanted cells in xedit is pretty easy and quick, but not everyone may want to do it/know how. On the other hand, if it meant needing three different esps, one for each dungeon, then I wouldn't be in favor of that and would rather see people learn to change it themselves like I did.
EinarrTheRed Posted March 25, 2022 Author Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, travelmedic said: So I found myself using the integrated wall options "sometimes." Other times I did prefer DM. Feedback from everyone on which options were their favorites would be helpful. I could focus on just things DM or HSH don't provide perhaps. 53 minutes ago, travelmedic said: If the integrated ZAZ options weren't there and you had just a couple of cages/cells (like you already have in the back room) and a lot of open space, I'd still be OK with that. Still like having the bed option, maybe also a dining table and a couple of chairs??? Vanilla furniture (beds, chairs, etc.) is easy and doesn't create problems converting it. For some reason the Zaz stuff does, but I don't understand why, its an area I have no expertise in. If it turns out its not really needed for things I can just leave it out and that will make constructing and converting the mod go much faster. Lot of open space... check Cells for slaves / prisoners... check (will include more of that) Main hall with dining and maybe an elevated area for "entertainment"... will do Would be a good place to have a SL Eager NPCs party and invite your friends over to enjoy your slaves. Probably will include some sort of "stable" that can be used as a holding area, dairy, pony slave stable, or an actual stable or kennel... depends what you want to do with it. Bedroom with arrow storage, dagger displays and weapon racks and a bit of storage. Bed would be big, custom and have lots of sleep markers so you can snooze surrounded by your favorite slaves. Slave pen / barracks that can have a lot of hay piles for slaves to sleep on or actual beds, wardrobes and training dummies if you want a place for your army of followers to sleep, toggle your preference (doesn't have to be a dungeon per se, could be secret base for your army in your plot to take over all of Skyrim! However you wanna role play it). Keep the grotto, maybe include a swimming area and a rock you can dive off of into the water (hey, why not? LOL CANNONBALL! Is that considered water torture? ?) Still pondering other ideas like some sort of a mine. Thing is to really get benefit from that @Musje or @TrollAutokill would have to come up with something in one of their mods that allowed you to set slaves to mining and they actually gathered ore over time. I know Musje was working on it at one point but never got it working far as I know. Oh... probably can't do this, but it was an idea that gave me the giggles so I'll share it for laughs if nothing else. Spoiler Recruit a giant to run your MME "dairy". They manage the slave cows, milk them, make cheese and occasionally breed em. Turns out that giant that was attacking your home was just a big misunderstanding... he was actually there to apply for the job. Tragic misunderstanding really. ? Any other ideas? 54 minutes ago, travelmedic said: I don't know how easy it would be for you to make a fomod installer with options, but I found that I would use xedit to delete the cells for Lakeview and Winstad, and only keeping the HF Dungeon at Heljarchen. I had other mods for the other two homes that didn't work with yours. Deleting the unwanted cells in xedit is pretty easy and quick, but not everyone may want to do it/know how. On the other hand, if it meant needing three different esps, one for each dungeon, then I wouldn't be in favor of that and would rather see people learn to change it themselves like I did. Won't be necessary. The new version will have everything in its own cell, the only connection will be a trap door in the front part of the house (the Entry or Small House). It won't conflict with anything and if for some reason you don't want it there, just disable the floor hatch and... poof... you see nothing. I'm going to try an specifically avoid conflicts with other popular mods so I'll probably post a very basic demo with some roughed in rooms in the new cell and the floor hatch so everybody can look at how its set up and where the hatch is, and then provide feedback if it conflicts with anything. If it does, I can move the hatch around until it doesn't. Edited March 25, 2022 by EinarrTheRed 1
DonQuiWho Posted March 26, 2022 Posted March 26, 2022 @EinarrTheRed You want cookie ideas? I think we should have Orc..estrated Training of the Fire, Fullfill, and Forget type, with automatic reload ... ?
travelmedic Posted March 26, 2022 Posted March 26, 2022 22 hours ago, EinarrTheRed said: Feedback from everyone on which options were their favorites would be helpful. I could focus on just things DM or HSH don't provide perhaps. OK, I haven't actually gotten fully into a game of Skyrim in over two years as I spent most of that time working 80 hour +++ work weeks. Forcing myself to cut back now and get back to some gaming, but have lots of games I want to try out before I'm back to Tamriel. Anyway, from memory I think you had some rope markers in the center of the floor that ended up being the ones I used most often. I can't remember most of the others to remember what I liked or didn't like at this point to be much use to you. Except I think if you were laying on the bed, to your right would be a sort of spear trap over a fire (?) (spears would come up from floor and down from ceiling like cage bars) that I never really used. Maybe that's helpful to you, but probably not. 1
EinarrTheRed Posted March 26, 2022 Author Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, travelmedic said: Anyway, from memory I think you had some rope markers in the center of the floor that ended up being the ones I used most often. I can't remember most of the others to remember what I liked or didn't like at this point to be much use to you. Except I think if you were laying on the bed, to your right would be a sort of spear trap over a fire (?) (spears would come up from floor and down from ceiling like cage bars) that I never really used. Maybe that's helpful to you, but probably not. That's actually a vanilla asset. I used those gate spears (they're actually to close a gateway) in a decorative fashion to create a sort of "display" area. So hang a slave up or place a wall marker and make em stay there... I even had some dancing on that little platform and then "closed" the gate so they were sort of in a "go-go dancer cage". I can certainly do more of that type stuff and that will also convert easier. The rope markers are from Zaz, and yes, I put an area of furs and then sort of hid a few rope markers in among them. The "cage" in the back with the pull lever to open it, beds on top and haypiles inside... that's all purely vanilla assets as well. Everyone's input is welcome. I will be posting some sort of a rebuild "concept" model tomorrow for further discussion. Edited March 26, 2022 by EinarrTheRed
EinarrTheRed Posted March 27, 2022 Author Posted March 27, 2022 Okay... I've got what I think is a pretty good concept for the rebuild coming together. I was hoping to even have some screen caps of a rough build out to show but my first attempt turned out to be a bit too big (how big is too big... umm... you could have fit half of Whiterun in the main hall... lil oversized I thought ?). So first off, the entrance. This will be a simple floor hatch like the one leading to the default basement in the HF homes (in fact I copied that hatch. so its exactly like it). This hatch is (if you just came in the front door) in the right back corner of the small house / entry room and should not conflict with anything, I won't even have to change the navmeshing. Spoiler This means all you need do is build just the front small house part and you have access to the hatch and the new dungeon. You can build the rest of the house and decorate it however you wish if you like. I'm going to leave the rest of the interior untouched to avoid conflicts with other HF mods, particularly those that mod Lakeview. That way you can have the best of all options. So... the story about that hatch. There you were building your new homestead, you had spent all of just 3 min building the foundation (you work REALLY fast) when your pick broke through into something below. Oh no... its another one of those pesky Nordic ruins. Sometimes it seems like you can't stick a shovel in the ground anywhere in Skyrim without hitting one! Well... what's down there? Its a Nordic themed dungeon of course! Or it will be... once you clear it and clean it up a bit. Initially I could (this is an option, feel free to discuss it) have non respawning leveled draugr and loot down there. So, you broke into that Nord ruin your house just happens to sit on top of and you do what you do in every such ruin... make the draugr dead again and steal their stuff! Or I could leave that out. So the ruin is now cleared of anything hostile... what have you got. An this is where I'll just have to describe the concept, I didn't have time in between other project to build anything (I tried, but it didn't turn out as anything usable). You come down the ladder into a partially ruined entry way... maybe where the original entrance was before it collapse. This then opens in the Main Hall. The Main hall is the hub of the place and is directly adjacent to the Training Hall, the other main area. Main Hall Two floors with an upper gallery Dinning area at one end Some sort of raised floor at the other (sort of a stage) for entertainers, dancers, whatever you want to get going up there. (Extra nice if you have the Dance For Me - Dance For You mod) Nooks or things along the side good for placing HSH wall markers, DM3 stuff, or that kind of thing... good places to display trophy slaves On the lower level on one side would be an entrance to a "cave garden", a natural cave with assorted fungus, mushrooms, etc. growing, lil bit of water, kind of pretty if you want a tranquil place to just chill. Plants would be harvestable, and if you have Kyne's Blessing could trigger parasites from that mod. I'm not sure how Frog set up the risk for sleeping in a cave, but if I can find out I might make that the case here... sleep in that area and you could wake up with a new "friend". On the opposite side lower level would be an entrance to the "slave pen" or barracks, depending on what furniture you enable. The slave pen would be lots of hay piles for slaves to sleep on, something kind of like I did in the main sleeping area in the existing mod. OR, you could put in regular common beds, wardrobes, and so forth and make it a barracks for your followers, your DoM thugs, etc. I might even have the furniture in "sets" so part of the room could be barracks and part hay piles for slaves though I'm not sure how you'd prevent one from using the other. On the upper level, same side as the barracks, would be an entrance to your private bed chamber. Big "bed" in the center that would actually be multiple bed markers so you can sleep surrounded by your favorite slaves. Along the walls, a wardrobe, bookshelves, dagger displays, arrow storage, misc storage, and room to display a few favorite slaves if you wish. The bedroom would connect to the "grotto", kind of like in the dungeon now, the upper area would be your "personal bathing area", and would overlook the lower grotto which would be a bit larger and would connect to the barracks / slave pen. Watch your trained slaves go for a swim, shower, bath, etc. I'm even trying to figure out if I can build a working water slide from the upper pool to the lower pool... because... why not! LOL Training Hall Two floors again. Round or octagonal design Prison cells around the perimeter of the room, so you'd have multiple places to keep naughty or untrained slaves. If using HSH, just drop multiple prison cell markers (the green wagon wheel). Room would have space for setting up bondage furniture and training slaves. There's no way to guarantee this since HSH doesn't have a "training area" marker. Maybe @Musje can add that one day. The upper area would have more nooks for wall markers or display areas and the gallery would be handy for looking down at the training going on below. An entrance from the training area to the "stable / dairy". Another room, with "stalls" that can be used for animals, or pony slaves, or cow slaves... whatever you like. Or just use it as another training or prison space or another slave pen. Up to you. An entrance from the training hall to "the pit", upper part is a room / observation area and the lower part is a sort of oubliette. You could use this for very naughty slaves, or may make it a "breeding" pit. Keep slaves down there with creatures from Hentai Creatures where they get repeatedly... well... bred. Throw in Soul Gem Oven and you got yourself a soul gem farm. All this would exist in its own unique cell, so no conflicts with any other mods. I'll of course use a lot of strategically placed occlusion planes to help manage FPS so you don't get big drops even if you have 50 or 100 slaves down there. That's the concept right now, so discuss, make suggestions. I'm particularly interested in suggestions from @Musje @TrollAutokill @DeepBlueFrog on anything I could do to make this mod work better with their mods. But anyone's ideas are welcome. I don't know when I'll have time to get back to building this, lot of other work ahead of it. But I may tinker in spare moments when inspiration strikes, so you never know. 5
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