Sexlab Survival

[Tenri]

2 hours ago, gurdilhfkk said:

There is a way to know which mod is playing with max carry weight ?

 

Sometime it goes from 160->120 (roughly), wich must come from milkmod, but shirtly after it goes up to 260+.

 

I was thinking of SL survival minimal weight but it is not the case (as unchecked or not it is the same thing).

 

what is confusing is that i am sometime spammed with "you are carrying too much ..." but in fact no, i'm at around 180/260 for exemple and can run.

 

I was thinking of a conflict between skooma addict, milk mod, milk addict, being female and SL survival, each one trying to manipulate max carry weight ?

You wouldn't happen to have a gag on with Cursed Loots bondage buffs enabled? I believe that causes a buff to carry capacity.

And if you are above your unbuffed capacity limit when the effect refreshes, the game warns you that you above capacity.

 

[shiagwen]

2 hours ago, Tenri said:

Probably Schlongs of Skyrim's fault, IIRC with an unmodified TAWoBA you have to flag each bra as revealing in SoS so the panties can be seen with it on.

But i dont have sos ! Well i tried it one more time and this time just one of a pair pouldrons was invisible.... And to be honest, i like the bikini and the panties , but nothing more. Boots and gauntlets originals looking sometimes better.  i play with Tera HDT Version. It is just one more feature of survival i dont use. Btw :

 

Monoman would you be so kind and make cum addict a separate mod  ?  would reduce 790 scripts.

[Tenri]

30 minutes ago, shiagwen said:

But i dont have sos ! Well i tried it one more time and this time just one of a pair pouldrons was invisible.... And to be honest, i like the bikini and the panties , but nothing more. Boots and gauntlets originals looking sometimes better.  i play with Tera HDT Version. It is just one more feature of survival i dont use. Btw :

 

Monoman would you be so kind and make cum addict a separate mod  ?  would reduce 790 scripts.

hmm, if you use DD it might be the device hider then, with that certain slots get hidden while wearing a chest slot item, I always turn it off and don't know the slots that BA armor uses or the hider hides offhand.

 

Also number of scripts in a mod and number of active scripts in a mod are not always (actually rarely ever) the same, many scripts does not necessarily mean script heavy and few scripts does not necessarily mean script light. Fairly sure if you turn off the other features of the mod, the scripts for them shouldn't be active.

[shiagwen]

1 hour ago, Tenri said:

hmm, if you use DD it might be the device hider then, with that certain slots get hidden while wearing a chest slot item, I always turn it off and don't know the slots that BA armor uses or the hider hides offhand.

 

Also number of scripts in a mod and number of active scripts in a mod are not always (actually rarely ever) the same, many scripts does not necessarily mean script heavy and few scripts does not necessarily mean script light. Fairly sure if you turn off the other features of the mod, the scripts for them shouldn't be active.

Thanks. The device hider is a newe idea, never even heard of it. will try it.

[tamai]

On 8/11/2020 at 12:20 PM, shiagwen said:

Thanks. The device hider is a newe idea, never even heard of it. will try it.

(my update list of changed armors biped slots)

I believe they probably are hiding because of the device hider from devious devices, depending on the slot of your bra which if you're not using the modified version legraf and I made which changes the slots above in this list here. Before a you can see the bra was on the 32(body) slot so by default DD hides both the 56,49,58 slots... so your bra is infact hiding it,  all you have to do is either download a version thats changes these slots or go into DD MCM and navigate to the 32 slot and uncheck the 49(chastity belts) hider.

 

EDIT: Lastly if you wanted the updated TAWBA armors its in the description of this mod so you dont run into problems like this.

 

@ralchemilla sorry i only play LE edition so i wouldn't know ;-;

[l3636b45]

I love the shit out of this mod.

 

Having a small problem: barefoot speed debuff suddenly stopped working. Anyone experience anything similar and have a fix?

 

Worried it might be something I did with BodySlide inadvertently.

[Monoman1]

18 minutes ago, l3636b45 said:

I love the shit out of this mod.

 

Having a small problem: barefoot speed debuff suddenly stopped working. Anyone experience anything similar and have a fix?

 

Worried it might be something I did with BodySlide inadvertently.

Toggle it off. Exit MCM. Wait 2 sec. Toggle back on. 

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, Mehmeme said:

Isnt that from SLSF?

Could be. It clearly thinks it can measure that and apply some modifiers, though it doesn't take everything into consideration.

[4nk8r]

How are you exporting the ARMO lists to JSON, like the BikiniArmors.json?  I'd like to create a new one for the Remastered combined TAWoBA that SunJeong created. 

 

Edit:  I see the guide on the main page.  Was hoping there was a PAS script or something that just dumped the values out like needed.  Cheers.

[Monoman1]

3 hours ago, 4nk8r said:

How are you exporting the ARMO lists to JSON, like the BikiniArmors.json?  I'd like to create a new one for the Remastered combined TAWoBA that SunJeong created. 

 

Edit:  I see the guide on the main page.  Was hoping there was a PAS script or something that just dumped the values out like needed.  Cheers.

There's an easier way I discovered afterwards using automation tools. 

Just do quick display, export as csv, put 'FULL' in the first box. OK.

Open exported.csv. First column is your formids in decimal. Easy peasy. No messing about converting. 

[4nk8r]

5 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

There's an easier way I discovered afterwards using automation tools. 

Just do quick display, export as csv, put 'FULL' in the first box. OK.

Open exported.csv. First column is your formids in decimal. Easy peasy. No messing about converting. 

I had actually started with that before I'd asked here, but each value seemed to be calculated using the whole formID instead of sans the 1st 2 orders of magnitude.  The values were so much larger than those I got using your documented process I didn't think they'd work in game.  Does it not actually matter, or does it just make my json output dependent upon load order placement of my armor mod?

 

"Bikini Guard Armor" (not actually bikini armor, but just using the numbers here for examples):

 

Via "AT Display" script:  67147454
VIa your documented process: 38590

[Monoman1]

7 minutes ago, 4nk8r said:

I had actually started with that before I'd asked here, but each value seemed to be calculated using the whole formID instead of sans the 1st 2 orders of magnitude.  The values were so much larger than those I got using your documented process I didn't think they'd work in game.  Does it not actually matter, or does it just make my json output dependent upon load order placement of my armor mod?

 

"Bikini Guard Armor" (not actually bikini armor, but just using the numbers here for examples):

 

Via "AT Display" script:  67147454
VIa your documented process: 38590

Ah yes. 

I suppose if you have excel you can do:

convert to hex and pad to 8 digits: =DEC2HEX(A0,8)

Drop the leading two digits: =RIGHT(A1,LEN(A1)-2)

convert back to dec: =HEX2DEC(A2)

Add the formatting for jsons: =CONCATENATE(CHAR(34), A3, "|BikiniArmorModName.esp", CHAR(34), ",")

 

Might be quicker in the long run than 

[ralchemilla]

is there any sexlab mods or other adult mods for skyrim that is generally not recommended to be used with Sexlab Survival, due to compatibility or possible script usage concerns?

or.. what could be some 'bloated' sexlab mods you would avoid while using Sexlab Survival?

[Confusa]

Will there any big new features appear in the future. like prostitution?
I had the following in mind:
when the Dovakiin comes into town he can neither sell nor fight. If she needs money to be able to leave the city again, where can he get the money from?
Just like the gentlemen told her: to swing her butt in the tavern. 
But if you now need a license to "work" in the tavern, what does the Dovakiin do?
Offering their body illigal for a few septiems and hope not to be seen by the guards. 
Which would be difficult, as it often happens that customers refuse to pay. 
She cannot call the guards as she will then be arrested for illegal prostitution. So she has to try her luck with the next customer. 
...until it gets around that you can have fun with her "for free".

 

I know that there is already a prostitution mod, but it is not so suitable because it makes things much too easy and some jobs can only be done outside of the city

I used Google translate to write this...

[Monoman1]

1 hour ago, ralchemilla said:

due to compatibility or possible script usage concerns?

It would be unfair to name mods. But I'll just say that weigh up the cost/benefit of any mod that runs continuously non-stop. I'm not talking about mods that run an update every game hour but ones that run updates back to back basically non stop. 

 

Other than that there are no hard-hard incompatibilities that I'm aware of except 'Open cities' for the gate detections 

 

Soft incompatibility with DCL (and any other mod that periodically sets the players expression) for open mouth. 

 

1 hour ago, Confusa said:

Will there any big new features appear in the future. like prostitution?

Nope. No plans currently for prostitution. 

 

In fact. Might take a little break from working on mods. 

Need to.... moderate my modding. 

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

It would be unfair to name mods. But I'll just say that weigh up the cost/benefit of any mod that runs continuously non-stop. I'm not talking about mods that run an update every game hour but ones that run updates back to back basically non stop.

I don't agree that this is a helpful way to discuss mod script stress on a game.

It's a gross oversimplification that can lead to poor decisions if people use it as a guide.

 

The long version...

Spoiler

 

Sure, there are (a tiny number of) mods that schedule updates every 0.3 seconds, and they are "basically non stop", but if those mods aren't calling expensive native functions, you probably still won't notice their impact.

 

The if is a big IF ... but in my experience, the only commonly-used mod that caused a problem was HDT High Heels - which is why I made a performance patch for it - and HDT HH was calling its own native functions in the update.

Simply reducing HDT HH update frequency every couple of seconds makes a huge difference to game-responsiveness and script reliability across the system.

But it's a one-off, an almost unique case. Few mods call that aggressively, even fewer run native functions as a result.

 

 

However, if you have a mod that is updating every five seconds or so (for example) ... unless it's written in a pathological way ... it probably has no performance impact worth mentioning, but again that's a pretty vague description. It's intended to hint that most mods are not written in a way that causes problems, because the single update tail-scheduling pattern is widely used. Five seconds is a very long time, even in Papyrus.

 

 

You cannot judge the stress-value of a mod based on update frequency alone. Without some knowledge of what it does in those updates, the frequency is almost meaningless.  Unless update frequency is in the sub-second range, it's bordering on irrelevant in itself. 

 

A mod that schedules updates correctly, and is taking a long time to perform updates will run its updates more slowly/less often as a natural consequence of using the correct update pattern (registering for another single update, only at the end of its update). That mod will essentially "self-throttle" its stress on the Papyrus execution engine (which itself is limited anyway).

 

 

A small number of mods schedule the next update, then do more work. Those mods are broken to a greater or lesser degree. Again, it depends what work they do.

 

 

However, regular scheduled updates are so rarely the cause of mod loading (HDT HH being the rare exception) that it really isn't the right place to look for performance issues. Ironically, many mods offer a way to control the update interval, even though this is rarely very meaningful. 

 

SLD lets you adjust the update interval, but as its updates are actually completely dominated by latent function calls, where it's not even executing, it could update with 0.1, and it would behave about the same.

 

 

Mod performance issues more commonly follow from event handling frequency, not scheduled updates.

OR

they may follow from a poorly implemented cloak spell, which has the exact same pattern as a badly applied event handler, causing massive script proliferation and spike loading.

 

e.g. 

The mod registers for an event that has a frequency far in excess of the authors expectation.

Or the author has some naive ideas about how quickly their code will handle events.

 

DT2 was a good example of this. It registered for several high-frequency events and did non-trivial processing in the event handlers.

I believe the new version attempts to resolve this, though I have no idea whether it does so successfully.

 

 

It's very easy for a mod to receive multiple events per second, and unlike scheduled updates, there is no self-throttling on event-handling; they simply pile up.

While it's common to see event-handler code that at least attempts to prevent running heavy code in the handler too often, much of this code doesn't work as intended by the author, and in any case, simply calling the event-handler at all incurs a non-trivial overhead.

 

 

OnHit is probably the biggest cause of problems.

In particular, mods that handle OnHit for all actors... usually combat mods ... are huge performance hogs.

OnTrigger and OnAnimation.

OnTrackedStats, OnItemAdded and OnItemRemoved are not without their hazards either.

Combat mods typically handle OnHit and OnAnimation ... they are a nexus of event-handling stress.

 

Because events have the potential to fire en-masse, in unpredictable and spiky ways, they can pose bigger problems than simple script-backup; they can cause stack overflows, script memory exhaustion, and other problems that result in broken execution. This very rarely every occurs from simple periodic updates.

 

Does this mean we shouldn't ever handle OnHit? We can never control how often it fires.

Does this mean we shouldn't ever handle animation events such as FootLeft? If the player is moving, they are near constant, and frequent.

If we want to do certain things, we have no choice, but we can be parsimonious in what we do inside handlers.

 

 

Combat mods are often the worst offenders, because they attempt to handle multiple events, that fire all-at-once, at the point that you most need a responsive game.

I have grave doubts that any combat mod written primarily in Papyrus can really "work".

 

 

 

 

However, there are some mods that do so much in their periodic update that you will notice a difference when uninstalling that mod. DCL is a case in point. Despite serious efforts to control its update processing stress, it can make a perceptible difference that will impact sensitive mods (like ME).

 

There's a difference between perceptible, and game-breaking however. A large player-base runs DCL with no significant ill-effects.

 

However, its likely that other mechanics that cause system-stress, such as processing conditions on HELLO dialog may often have more impact.

It's not by chance that Slaverun makes everything run very slowly in-and-around Dragonsreach, or may even CTD there.

If you add other stressors, your problems will only be worse. One, or even a few heavy mods will probably be fine, but if you have hundreds, these things simply add up.

 

 

And then we have mods that overload the LE story manager. Some mods add lots of story events. They will break story events for everything, including vanilla. The story manager for LE appears to have a behavior where it only runs for a fixed time-slice, then aborts. This can leave events un-fired. They will never fire, they are simply lost. If you were depending on those events to progress a quest (and vanilla quests do depend on them, as do many mods) then losing those events will leave your quests blocked, scenes stuck, or whatever.

 

 

There are mods that take a long time to run certain scripts, but add little stress, because they are primarily blocked, waiting for a latent function (such as GetWornForm, or quest.Start() to complete). However, if those things happen in a high-frequency event-handler, they might be a problem; it depends on the design.

 

 

 

The take-away here, is that how your game gets stressed may be non-obvious, and is typically complex. Simply pointing at mods that run periodic updates with durations less than an hour (which is equivalent to never in terms of performance) is oversimplifying the situation to the point of meaninglessness. Guessing at what causes performance issues in a specific mod or game without detailed measurements is often wrong.

 

 

Also...

Spoiler

If you're worried about performance, then reducing the radius of cloak spells in mods that use them is one way to improve things (assuming you can).

• Don't run HDT HH, or use my patch.
• Don't run combat mods. If you must run them, minimize them, and be prepared for oddities. Don't mix them with sensitive mods like ME.
• Don't run DCL unless you need multiple features from it, or the quest content - many individual DCL features have alternatives from mods that are less stressful (such as Deviously Enchanted Chests for actual cursed loot).
• Don't run never versions of ME under LE (ever) it will just wreck your Story Manager.
• The arousal widget mod for SLA is heavy by default, tune the performance settings on install.
• Avoid starting the main quest of Slaverun Reloaded unless you intend to play it.

But even those suggestions are situational and relative. If you use DCL to replace a dozen mods, you probably improve your game performance. If you use it to add some NPC dialogs and duplicate/replace most of it with dedicated mods, you are taking a double hit.

 

SLS itself is not devoid of stressors. It runs a lot of dialog conditions, and it is monitoring a variety of player actions. STA also. Just because it only runs periodic updates rarely doesn't mean it is low-stress, it just means it's out-of-date more often  If SLS recalculated toll-cost every 5 seconds, it would not impact your game. If it recalculated it every minute, it definitely wouldn't. That might still be wasteful, but not in a meaningful way. If doing a redundant (near instant) calculation every few seconds means a mod overall can respond better when it matters, it's a win.

 

If a mod pre-calculates a value every five seconds, so it doesn't have to do it in an event handler, that might improve performance.

Premature optimization that achieves ZERO BENEFIT is rife in Skyrim mods, and yet real-performance is often bad.

That's because modders are prematurely optimizing, often based on hearsay, not fixing actual bottlenecks.

 

Often it's better to perform less well, but work correctly. Complexity introduced into mods (in the vain pursuit of performance) that impairs maintainability, and makes it harder to be correct is not a benefit.

 

The most common example is the fear of making function calls. I notice that about eight out of ten mods are function-call-averse, and cut+paste code rather than call it as a function. This is not improving performance, it's just repeating yourself and impairing maintainability.

 

 

[Wayward1]

Just wanted to say I love the new daydream function. It was a funny, delightful surprise and I hope you continue to iterate on it in strange and hilarious ways in the future

[Rensome]

Hello, I don't seem to be getting a simply knock option for the gate at whiterun, while normal doors I do. Any tips? 

[Lupine00]

6 minutes ago, Rensome said:

Hello, I don't seem to be getting a simply knock option for the gate at whiterun, while normal doors I do. Any tips?

That would be how Simply Knock works. It's for getting people to let you in their houses after they lock their doors.

Whiterun city gate is nothing to do with Simply Knock.

 

There should be guards outside, so you could talk to them.

If there are no guards, probably your game is broken.

 

Historically, SLS has never blocked entry to Whiterun. Vanilla may, at the point in the quest where you come from Helgen, but SLS doesn't.

 

SLS locked toll gates block exit from Whiterun, or any other walled city.

 

I'm not totally convinced that makes complete sense, but it's how SLS has always worked.

[keitsoru]

Hey, just an idea, to add on to the curfew mechanic. What if the player needed a license to be out after curfew? This would make the curfew feel like it actually means something, and also get around the lack of immersion when clearly other people are out and about.

 

In interest of enforcing it, if the player has at least 100 gold (Devious Followers), they're taken to the inn. If not, they're taken to the kennel if in Whiterun, or to the hold's jail.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, keitsoru said:

Hey, just an idea, to add on to the curfew mechanic. What if the player needed a license to be out after curfew? This would make the curfew feel like it actually means something, and also get around the lack of immersion when clearly other people are out and about.

 

In interest of enforcing it, if the player has at least 100 gold (Devious Followers), they're taken to the inn. If not, they're taken to the kennel if in Whiterun, or to the hold's jail.

I like this.

Obviously, if you have a home, they should probably send you there, after fining you, and there are likely other details and edge cases to sort out, but it makes the curfew more meaningful. It was originally a very small idea of limiting departure times, but expectations grow  

 

Does anyone use vanilla inn-prices? Kennel wouldn't make sense if they did.

SLS may fix that too? I'm not sure.

 

If you're careful you could do without a "curfew license" and that would be a good thing, because you're more likely to be caught out that way.

Also makes night-time chases more likely, or interesting, if you're trying to get past guards.

 

 

That's the area things need some balancing. Guards run with a speed advantage, see in the dark and ignore sneaking. Your only hope of escape is a pathing exploit, and generally that won't save you as they'll just consider you caught from a distance.

 

Some tuning of their night vision would be appropriate for players with darker setups. If I can't see in Whiterun at night (and Markarth is much worse) I don't know why they can. Superior male eyes?

 

Slowing down guards (and enforcers) might be a good thing for balance. They seem to path better at lower speeds too.

[keitsoru]

27 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I like this.

Obviously, if you have a home, they should probably send you there, after fining you, and there are likely other details and edge cases to sort out, but it makes the curfew more meaningful. It was originally a very small idea of limiting departure times, but expectations grow  

 

Does anyone use vanilla inn-prices? Kennel wouldn't make sense if they did.

SLS may fix that too? I'm not sure.

 

If you're careful you could do without a "curfew license" and that would be a good thing, because you're more likely to be caught out that way.

Also makes night-time chases more likely, or interesting, if you're trying to get past guards.

 

 

That's the area things need some balancing. Guards run with a speed advantage, see in the dark and ignore sneaking. Your only hope of escape is a pathing exploit, and generally that won't save you as they'll just consider you caught from a distance.

 

Some tuning of their night vision would be appropriate for players with darker setups. If I can't see in Whiterun at night (and Markarth is much worse) I don't know why they can. Superior male eyes?

 

Slowing down guards (and enforcers) might be a good thing for balance. They seem to path better at lower speeds too.

I actually wasn't aware the guards got a speed advantage. The more you know. As for the inn prices, the easiest solution to maintain immersion might be to just provide an option so the player can set the required gold to be escorted to an inn? Also allows the player to keep control over their experience with the mod.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, keitsoru said:

I actually wasn't aware the guards got a speed advantage.

Not explicit to guards, but from SLS default disparity - males run faster than default, females run slower than default.

 

This is a complex topic.

 

When writing the rape chase-down in SLD, I found that making NPCs faster doesn't necessarily help them catch the PC at all, instead it leads to amplification of bad-pathing effects in Skyrim. If it's a nice straight run over a clear pathing area, they get a big advantage, but if they have to turn or avoid objects, they are prone to get stuck on things and blunder into stuff because they're overshooting.

 

Even running with a speed penalty, I could simply run around an obstacle and cause confusion in a whole host of chasing NPCs who would just get stuck on it.

 

It seems like the pathing code plans the turn points for the NPCs, or frequency of evaluation of when they may turn, based on some assumed default speed, and making them faster than that just makes it get it wrong consistently.

 

Neverthless, if it's a chase down the middle of Whiterun, a disparity boosted guard will eventually get you lined up and put on a massive speed burst, while your female PC is doing more of a jog than a run.

 

The guards don't tire, and follow you into places, so they'll just chase you until they get you, within some fairly generous limits.

 

But ... my sordid secret is that I'm still on version 0.591 of SLS ... so guards may have changed since then.

All this scary stuff like instanced licenses, wheel-menus and re-FNIS-ing every afternoon, will be waiting until I start a new game.

 

 

Making a fun chase game with guards is no simple trick, that is for sure.

[Monoman1]

3 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

females run slower than default.

Just to clarify. SLS does not make females run slower by default. Unless you count the barefoot debuff. It just makes males faster (10%). 

 

There sre already too many mods messing with speed. 

[Monoman1]

Curfew in town is an interesting idea but I think it'd be pretty prone to conflicts (headaches for me) like being autopiloted through town at night by slavering or pop punishments etc. Those are just 2 off the top of my head.