Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Pupkin]

so I have this idea for the next playthrough. The female PC is really poor at the start of the game and not combat oriented and requires a male follower ASAP. She can't pay them right away, but promises to pay later and also allows to be taken advantage of (i.e. be fucked) periodically by the follower. So your mod fits nicely apart from one problem. I'm not sure how "Follower playing games with you"  works and it requires reaching half the debt value. Can it be customized into simple "follower initiates sex" mechanic (with dialogue preferably)?

[donttouchmethere]

2 hours ago, Maddac said:

two questions, can you remove heretical resources and ZEP requirement please as both of those cause issues with other mods ie it breaks ZAP 7.0 and 8.0 and

with ZAP 8.0 installed ZEP is not required or recommended any more.

 

Also is this mod compatible with DDI4.0/DDA4.0? I want to play with this mod but with all the Heretical resources assets being added to DDX4.0/DDI4.0 it is no longer required.

 

It would be interesting to see this mod with Devious Framework, DDI4.0 and DCL6.3 but with ZEP as a requirement it breaks the game.

DF was made with DD4.0 in mind => yes works with DD4.0

 

for the ZEP Issue i use the "steelmagpie workaround":

"ZEP 1.08 has FNIS issues..  as I only need it to fire up DF and all it adds to DF is crawling in towns (not bothered by that). I  remove ZEP for generating FNIS and then just add it afterward making sure to say NO to ALL overwriting ZAP8 stuff.  This does mean no crawl animation but it gets around the FNIS issues.  You just have to remember to uninstal it before running FNIS when updating or installing new mods and then just reinstall it after..  That is how I got it to (half)work for me so I hope that helps.. "

[donttouchmethere]

15 hours ago, Pupkin said:

so I have this idea for the next playthrough. The female PC is really poor at the start of the game and not combat oriented and requires a male follower ASAP. She can't pay them right away, but promises to pay later and also allows to be taken advantage of (i.e. be fucked) periodically by the follower. So your mod fits nicely apart from one problem. I'm not sure how "Follower playing games with you"  works and it requires reaching half the debt value. Can it be customized into simple "follower initiates sex" mechanic (with dialogue preferably)?

till Lozeak can give you a good answer to that:

you could combine DF + DEC => followers will approach you for sex if arousal is high enough

 

EDIT:

or combine DF + Eager NPCs

[Maddac]

6 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

DF was made with DD4.0 in mind => yes works with DD4.0

 

for the ZEP Issue i use the "steelmagpie workaround":

"ZEP 1.08 has FNIS issues..  as I only need it to fire up DF and all it adds to DF is crawling in towns (not bothered by that). I  remove ZEP for generating FNIS and then just add it afterward making sure to say NO to ALL overwriting ZAP8 stuff.  This does mean no crawl animation but it gets around the FNIS issues.  You just have to remember to uninstal it before running FNIS when updating or installing new mods and then just reinstall it after..  That is how I got it to (half)work for me so I hope that helps.. "

ok so if it works with DD4.0 it doesnt need heretical resources at all, and as far a ZEP goes, if you look in tes5edit and have ZEP in the load order, it changes or disables various zap components. as both zap 7.0 and zap 8.0 both advise not to use ZEP as it breaks ZAP, then ZEP should be removed as a requirement for devious followers, its not FNIS thats the issue, its the changes ZEP does that is the issue, and those changes are obvious in tes5edit. ZEP was only designed to work with ZAP6.11, no later versions.

[donttouchmethere]

7 hours ago, Maddac said:

ok so if it works with DD4.0 it doesnt need heretical resources at all, and as far a ZEP goes, if you look in tes5edit and have ZEP in the load order, it changes or disables various zap components. as both zap 7.0 and zap 8.0 both advise not to use ZEP as it breaks ZAP, then ZEP should be removed as a requirement for devious followers, its not FNIS thats the issue, its the changes ZEP does that is the issue, and those changes are obvious in tes5edit. ZEP was only designed to work with ZAP6.11, no later versions.

your right!

Atm i have zep and heretical only installed for DF, DT2 (but SD+ offers crawling animation too) and for the zep BDSM mechanics

For me its just a quick and dirty workaround till Lozeak comes up with something new, because i just cant play without DF anymore^^ and the steelmagpie workaround works on my setup so far

[valcon767]

16 hours ago, Pupkin said:

so I have this idea for the next playthrough. The female PC is really poor at the start of the game and not combat oriented and requires a male follower ASAP. She can't pay them right away, but promises to pay later and also allows to be taken advantage of (i.e. be fucked) periodically by the follower. So your mod fits nicely apart from one problem. I'm not sure how "Follower playing games with you"  works and it requires reaching half the debt value. Can it be customized into simple "follower initiates sex" mechanic (with dialogue preferably)?

follower playing games happens if:

 

you ARE wearing a supported device in a supported area - blindfold in dungeon, bondage boots in dungeon (i think)

AND your are over halfway to enslavement debt OR have a willpower (by this mods stats) lower than 6

 

there is a separate game that can occur if you are currently enslaved, but i do not remember what that takes to trigger offhand

 

[BlueLight]

I can understand not wanting to add another mod dependency to the list, but why not use the mod that adds willpower? It seems more reasonable than some obscure DD resource patch

[steelmagpie]

DD resource pack no longer a requirement if you are using DD4. 

 

Glad to see the work around is working for a few people.  Mods do have a habit of being "Outdated" by other required mods updating ..  ZAP8 is unusual as it is a mash up of ZAP7 and T.ara's funiture pack and anims packs. This means any mod which used them as a requirement will need to udate to ZAP8 (not 100% sure of the longevity of ZAP8 at the moment but hopefully it will last as update was a good one) or become almost useless over time. DD4 has also done this by including heretical devices into it's new pack. With DD4 though you have the confidence of a long lasting merge but alas with ZAP8 there is always a small risk of ZazChris returning and reclaiming the mod.. Hopefully DF could be jiggled to work with less required mods and work with either ZAP7 or ZAP8 (ZAP8 is basically ZAP7 with T.ara's stuff added to it so should be compatible).

 

 

[user9120975435]

On 6. februar 2018 at 1:17 PM, Maddac said:

two questions, can you remove heretical resources and ZEP requirement please as both of those cause issues with other mods ie it breaks ZAP 7.0 and 8.0 and

with ZAP 8.0 installed ZEP is not required or recommended any more.

 

Also is this mod compatible with DDI4.0/DDA4.0? I want to play with this mod but with all the Heretical resources assets being added to DDX4.0/DDI4.0 it is no longer required.

 

It would be interesting to see this mod with Devious Framework, DDI4.0 and DCL6.3 but with ZEP as a requirement it breaks the game.

 

I support. This mod sounds intriguing, but running both DD 4.0 and ZAP 8.0 I don't want to mess up my install by adding very conflicting mods to it.

[s3ngine]

I went ahead and tried to remove the ZEP dependency by myself, just to see if it works. I am going to share what I did, in case somebody wants to do the same, for it really is quite simple:

(note: I did this with the version 0.9c, but I imagine there hasnt been much change in this particular area)

 

I loaded up DeviousFollowers.esp in tes5edit. TAKE NOTE that you WILL need the .esm files from ZEP, TUFP and Heretical Resources for this to work of course. Just the .esm files tho, nothing else. Personally, I just parked them somewhere together with a copy of DeviousFollowers, to have them handy in case I want to edit something.

 

In tes5edit navigate to the Object Effect category. There is only one entry called "_Dflow_CollarEnch". Click on that and in the right side of the window, scroll all the way down. There, under Effects you find the Effect "zbfxEffectCrawling "Crawling" [MGEF:0A00438D]" (the ID might be a bit different for you, depending on the mods you have loaded into tes5edit and in what order. 0A corresponds to the order of ZEP btw). Remove that effect.

Then, back in the left part of the window, right-click DeviousFollowers.esp and select "Clean Masters". After a moment of waiting, check the master-files in the Header entry and you will find that ZEP and Heretical are gone.

Save and done.

 

And what can I say, it works fine. Of course you are missing the crawl animation now tho. I guess its a matter of personal taste.

 

Again, I apologize to you, Lozeak, for tinkering with your mod. I've said it before, I very much appreciate your mod, you put some amazing ideas to such good use. And in a stable and lightweight mod no less.

I also think that you should not feel pressured to remove ZEP if that does not adhere to your plans for the mod. Please continue at your leisure and according to your scenario

 

Regards, s3ngine

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, s3ngine said:

I went ahead and tried to remove the ZEP dependency by myself, just to see if it works. I am going to share what I did, in case somebody wants to do the same, for it really is quite simple:

(note: I did this with the version 0.9c, but I imagine there hasnt been much change in this particular area)

I'm not surprised it is that simple, as I think Lozeak mentioned in the past that the only thing DF used in ZEP was the crawl animation.  Thanks for the notes on where the effect is, I'll be taking advantage of this due to all these reports of issues people have had with ZEP and Tara's versions of ZAP.  With the cool looking new stuff coming out I'd like to mess around with it with a somewhat lower chance of blowing up my save game.

 

Nothing wrong with doing some tinkering with the mod and mentioning to others what you've done IMO, especially if you aren't doing something dumb like uploading a new version that Lozeak would of course be asked to fix bugs for later.

[Lostdreamer]

Interesting concept.

 

I've been looking for something that gives me a cost/day time constraint for a while now. Thanks for writing this.

 

After a short playtest however, I found that being locked out of the follower dialogs whilst I owed them money was a bit of a deal breaker.

Without the follower dialogs I can't do things like give them better equipment or progress their subquests (yay for follower mods!).

Whilst yes, the whole idea is that I do pay them (*), having to do so constantly got old fast.

 

I'm not saying you need to change it, just trying to give some feedback on what worked and didn't for my game.

 

 

 

(*) = beyond some testing to see what happens if I don't. Heh.

[Reesewow]

32 minutes ago, Lostdreamer said:

After a short playtest however, I found that being locked out of the follower dialogs whilst I owed them money was a bit of a deal breaker.

Without the follower dialogs I can't do things like give them better equipment or progress their subquests (yay for follower mods!).

Whilst yes, the whole idea is that I do pay them (*), having to do so constantly got old fast.

 

I'm not saying you need to change it, just trying to give some feedback on what worked and didn't for my game.

There is an MCM menu option to allow default follower dialogues to always appear even if you have debt or are enslaved.

[Lostdreamer]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

There is an MCM menu option to allow default follower dialogues to always appear even if you have debt or are enslaved.

Cool.

 

I did have a check because it seemed like the sort of thing there might be an MCM control for, but clearly missed it.

 

I've reloaded it, checked i've got the latest version etc and still can't see it.

 

Is there an idiot guide somewhere I can check?

 

Thanks.

[Reesewow]

47 minutes ago, Lostdreamer said:

Cool.

 

I did have a check because it seemed like the sort of thing there might be an MCM control for, but clearly missed it.

 

I've reloaded it, checked i've got the latest version etc and still can't see it.

 

Is there an idiot guide somewhere I can check?

 

Thanks.

Not able to check right now, but I believe one of the options refers to quest dialogue ect on the right hand side (toggle button).  It is probably more intended for use if you really need to talk to a follower for quest reasons, but it also works to simply allow access to follower options like trading/orders ect (just be careful incase your follower has custom dismissal dialogue, since that may screw things up if you try to dismiss them while you have debt).

[Lostdreamer]

35 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Not able to check right now, but I believe one of the options refers to quest dialogue ect on the right hand side (toggle button).  It is probably more intended for use if you really need to talk to a follower for quest reasons, but it also works to simply allow access to follower options like trading/orders ect (just be careful incase your follower has custom dismissal dialogue, since that may screw things up if you try to dismiss them while you have debt).

Ahha! Got it. 'Custom/Quest Dialog Debug'...ok, now I know why I missed that.

 

Cool. I'll experiment a big more then. Thanks.

 

 

But, err, might I suggest a minor edit for the next release to something like 'Enable follower dialog' or similar - I doubt I am the only one who didn't catch on to exactly what that option did

[Lozeak]

On 06/02/2018 at 12:17 PM, Maddac said:

two questions, can you remove heretical resources and ZEP requirement please as both of those cause issues with other mods ie it breaks ZAP 7.0 and 8.0 and

with ZAP 8.0 installed ZEP is not required or recommended any more.

 

Also is this mod compatible with DDI4.0/DDA4.0? I want to play with this mod but with all the Heretical resources assets being added to DDX4.0/DDI4.0 it is no longer required.

 

It would be interesting to see this mod with Devious Framework, DDI4.0 and DCL6.3 but with ZEP as a requirement it breaks the game.

 

I will try(agian), it seems to be highly requested to the point maybe I'll just sacrifice the crawling animation for it. Which is a shame but more people being able to use the mod imo is a fair trade. I'll probably do this soon when I get some time to.

 

On 06/02/2018 at 1:04 PM, Pupkin said:

so I have this idea for the next playthrough. The female PC is really poor at the start of the game and not combat oriented and requires a male follower ASAP. She can't pay them right away, but promises to pay later and also allows to be taken advantage of (i.e. be fucked) periodically by the follower. So your mod fits nicely apart from one problem. I'm not sure how "Follower playing games with you"  works and it requires reaching half the debt value. Can it be customized into simple "follower initiates sex" mechanic (with dialogue preferably)?

 

The game stuff is more like a random event thing it wouldn't really fit in to it activates every 7 game day or every so often, The deal system is kind fits into your "but promises to pay them later" stuff. As for forcing it wear a blindfold or bondage boots in a dungeon with over halve debt or low willpower.

 

5 hours ago, Lostdreamer said:

Interesting concept.

 

I've been looking for something that gives me a cost/day time constraint for a while now. Thanks for writing this.

 

After a short playtest however, I found that being locked out of the follower dialogs whilst I owed them money was a bit of a deal breaker.

Without the follower dialogs I can't do things like give them better equipment or progress their subquests (yay for follower mods!).

Whilst yes, the whole idea is that I do pay them (*), having to do so constantly got old fast.

 

I'm not saying you need to change it, just trying to give some feedback on what worked and didn't for my game.

 

 

 

(*) = beyond some testing to see what happens if I don't. Heh.

 

With other follower mod I'd like to look into later making it a little more compatible the debug is there to help ya out but I think it is buggy now, it something I'll look into at a later time.

 

1 hour ago, Lostdreamer said:

Ahha! Got it. 'Custom/Quest Dialog Debug'...ok, now I know why I missed that.

 

Cool. I'll experiment a big more then. Thanks.

 

 

But, err, might I suggest a minor edit for the next release to something like 'Enable follower dialog' or similar - I doubt I am the only one who didn't catch on to exactly what that option did

I did make it so the first line you follower says to you explains it lol. I'll look into it later it's a thing I want to do when I'm in the tiding phase of the mod.

[valcon767]

10 hours ago, Lostdreamer said:

Interesting concept.

 

I've been looking for something that gives me a cost/day time constraint for a while now. Thanks for writing this.

 

After a short playtest however, I found that being locked out of the follower dialogs whilst I owed them money was a bit of a deal breaker.

Without the follower dialogs I can't do things like give them better equipment or progress their subquests (yay for follower mods!).

Whilst yes, the whole idea is that I do pay them (*), having to do so constantly got old fast.

 

I'm not saying you need to change it, just trying to give some feedback on what worked and didn't for my game.

 

 

 

(*) = beyond some testing to see what happens if I don't. Heh.

a little late with this but with the latest version you can in fact trade items with your follower (even if in debt) without having to use the debug or pause mod buttons,

while you will have to use one of those buttons to progress follower quests/subquests.

i cannot say this will work (trading items without useing the MCMbuttons) with followers with custom trade dialogues, but it does work with vanilla dialogues.

i use AFT and can access regular inventory, but not the custom dialogue inventories, without using the debug or pause buttons.

 

hope this information is helpful

 

[Corsayr]

13 hours ago, Lozeak said:

On 2/6/2018 at 6:17 AM, Maddac said:

two questions, can you remove heretical resources and ZEP requirement please as both of those cause issues with other mods ie it breaks ZAP 7.0 and 8.0 and

with ZAP 8.0 installed ZEP is not required or recommended any more.

 

Also is this mod compatible with DDI4.0/DDA4.0? I want to play with this mod but with all the Heretical resources assets being added to DDX4.0/DDI4.0 it is no longer required.

 

It would be interesting to see this mod with Devious Framework, DDI4.0 and DCL6.3 but with ZEP as a requirement it breaks the game.

 

I will try(agian), it seems to be highly requested to the point maybe I'll just sacrifice the crawling animation for it. Which is a shame but more people being able to use the mod imo is a fair trade. I'll probably do this soon when I get some time to.

Probably just as well. ZEP is so fragile, and there is no support for it over on it's support forum. I will miss the crawling animation but tbh it broke a lot on its own and frequently didn't work.  

[Monoman1]

FYI, there's a small bit of a conflict with immersive fashion.

 

This is regarding the no clothes/armbinder deal - _DflowDealHIdle. If your character is using IFs nail polish (which adds an 'armor' to your hands for fingernails) and/or your character has arched feet (which equips a bare foot, tip-toe feet model to the feet slot) then your mod and IF will fight each other to equip and then drop items from the hands/feet slots. I've left bottles of nail polish all over skyrim :-)

I haven't tested this yet (I'm away) but if you changed the keyword you test against from zad_lockable to the SexLabNoStrip keyword I think it would solve this problem at least. Not sure if it might have some unintended side effects though. 

 

Just thought I'd mention it since it's something I'm going to look into fixing for myself. 

[MrMagoo]

Out of curiousity how hard would it be to pull the crawling animation out of ZEP and include it into this mod or just have it as an optional extra? Anyone know?

[valcon767]

On 2/11/2018 at 10:31 PM, MrMagoo said:

Out of curiousity how hard would it be to pull the crawling animation out of ZEP and include it into this mod or just have it as an optional extra? Anyone know?

not sure, as i am not sure how the author of ZEP did it to begin with.

 

but there is this file (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/33097/) which the author has already given permission to modify or convert for use in other

mods providing the are NOT paid mods (this one is not), and providing credit is given (which almost no one here would have a problem doing).

 

not sure how hard it would be to modify to use in this mod though.

 

[gamer098]

Hello, I love what I am seeing in the mod so far, but I have a question about something I've been experiencing with it, I'm not sure if it's the intended behavior.

 

After my follower enslaves me, and then eventually gags me and whores me out, once that is finished (sex 10 times), the devious follower dialogue goes away and no more events seem to happen (despite that I did not go over the max debt). Is this intentional?

[Corsayr]

6 minutes ago, random11714 said:

Hello, I love what I am seeing in the mod so far, but I have a question about something I've been experiencing with it, I'm not sure if it's the intended behavior.

 

After my follower enslaves me, and then eventually gags me and whores me out, once that is finished (sex 10 times), the devious follower dialogue goes away and no more events seem to happen (despite that I did not go over the max debt). Is this intentional?

No it is a known bug

[Krazyone]

Feature Requests...

 

1. Auto-Pay Option... Followers automatically take their money from you. With notification of them taking it, less willpower = more harsh messages.

 

2. Lower daily debt slider... Daily debt only goes down to 50 gold per day. I want to have this mod installed permanently, with the followers taking advantages of your bad luck.

 

3. My fair share speech used only once... At present, every-time your follower is paid fully, they revert to my fair share hun dialogue. As well as, I hope you don't mess me around dialogue repeating as well.

 

 

I love the mod, but I would also like to reduce the daily costs of the follower a bit. So I could run it as a permanent mod, not just a try it and see mod... 

 

 

 

Possible additional features...

 

1. Loan you money system... You want to buy Breezehome, but don't want to wait. Found a once in a lifetime piece of armour or weaponry... Ask your follower for a loan, she's loaded with your cash anyway.

 

 

2. Loan debt payment system...

 

1. Whore you out... Each morning you have sex with a few customers, the lower your willpower. The sicker the perversions, animals, monsters, Willpower 0 = Giant sex ( that's gotta hurt... ). Get ready for a lot of pregnancies, and children running around... 

 

Just a couple of additional ideas...