Four-Play Community Patch

[Vader666]

 

It sounds quite impossible to me prevent malicious patching of child race. If they will be prevented from patching fourplay they will go and patch the child mods. The only way i see (forgive me if i am wrong, i am casual programmer;) create some kind of "race framework"  and check its integrity (md5 sums) and loadorder (not being overriden) using F4SE.

 

But maybe is it easier just modify license and perform legal steps. After all mods are designed to be overriden by design...

 

 

Well the fact is you can´t stop these people, no matter what you do.

The only thing you can do is making it as hard as possible.

 

So moving the whole "StartPerformance" function into the F4SE plugin with the checks for race black and whitelist and a child race check will prevent people from to get what they want using a "real" child race.

Since the source of the F4SE plugin is not needed to create FP mods, while script scources are, the source code should be unpublic.

But sure as soon as someone creates actors/races that look like children but technically aren´t there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Performing legal steps would be a waste of time, since those people are most likely well hidden and are using server locations that don´t take stuff like that too serious...

[2Dimm]

I haven't been around here in a while and only a few days ago started messing around with Four Play, so I had to go to the main Fore Play download thread to understand what was happening.  Unfortunately now that I know what's happening I don't think much can be done to stop them.  There's only three options I can see:  

1) Remove the mods and stop publishing updates.  

2) Add in new safety measures to stop them from changing the mod.  

3) Move on but make it clear that you don't support people doing that with your mod and you're not responsible for these people's actions.  

One and three are the easiest, but neither will stop them.  Two is the only option that would really affect them, but it would take a lot of time and effort, and in the end they would still find a way around the blocks.  None of the options are good.

 

It's a tough decision.  Hopefully everyone finds a solution that they feel comfortable with.

 

3 is the only solution, not like skyrim mods haven't been patched for years now haha

[Vuulgar]

 

 

It sounds quite impossible to me prevent malicious patching of child race. If they will be prevented from patching fourplay they will go and patch the child mods. The only way i see (forgive me if i am wrong, i am casual programmer;) create some kind of "race framework"  and check its integrity (md5 sums) and loadorder (not being overriden) using F4SE.

 

But maybe is it easier just modify license and perform legal steps. After all mods are designed to be overriden by design...

 

 

Well the fact is you can´t stop these people, no matter what you do.

The only thing you can do is making it as hard as possible.

 

So moving the whole "StartPerformance" function into the F4SE plugin with the checks for race black and whitelist and a child race check will prevent people from to get what they want using a "real" child race.

Since the source of the F4SE plugin is not needed to create FP mods, while script scources are, the source code should be unpublic.

But sure as soon as someone creates actors/races that look like children but technically aren´t there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Performing legal steps would be a waste of time, since those people are most likely well hidden and are using server locations that don´t take stuff like that too serious...

 

 

Very unfortunate and I completely understand your concerns. I have no idea how to possibly stop this but it certainly seems impossible since game companies with huge budgets cant prevent hacking and tampering. I feel like this is part of the reason Doc seemed to get burnt out and hope a meeting of magical modding minds can secure this to your satisfaction. As always Vin, thank you for your skills.

[ondra76]

Basically it is like ban syringes in order to prevent junkies shoot heroine into their veins..

 

But i understand your right to fight the feeling of have your work misused by those malicious mod modifications. What about turning small avatars into adults (randonly so it will be hard to patch in F4SE) ...

[Neppy]

Man you take the community mod down right when you release your first cum textures. Sad day.  

 

[bury02128]

Hope fully you can sort it out guys. Although you are giving vogue answers what happened somehow i have feeling that i kn ow whats going on ( some assholes converted mods to be used with underage characters, right ? ).

[D_ManXX2]

These users had to be member here in order to get these mods so they are probably reading this with us.so i either take this to pm but not mention anything publicly is a better option.

 

how does F4SE DLL works ?? maybe turning race checks in dll format. make it something like an external check mechanism instead of the esm. like it is now. Maybe ask expired for help he made looksmenu with external dll format. so maybe he knows the step to get the race check into dll format.

 

then maybe if you release it again dont the release the source code with it. this will make it more difficult for these groups to edit your mods.

 

You dont really need the Script source code, you can easily disassemble a compiled script to get the source code.

 

Isn´t it possible to put the race checks or blocks into the F4SE plugin ? that should be a lot harder to reach for those people.

 

 

This is much better the more difficult it is the better. but there will never be full prove but atleast you can say you did everything to prevent them.

[Dieterhaller]

+1   No support for such assholes.

[fred200]

All I would ask is don't over-think this.

As a society, we have decided that animated child porn is worse than murder; longer prison terms, etc.  So be it.

The Feds are really good at tracking these people down and prosecuting them. Let them do their job.

On my side, I believe that a "victim-less crime" should not be a crime. Someone wants to kill themselves with drugs - let them, right up to the point

they damage someone else to support their habit. Cut off their own arm - have at it, as long as they can cover the medical costs.

The worst evil we have in the world today are people of good intent trying to enforce their ethics / morals on others.

Reference the Taliban, ISIS, the Religious Right in our country - or Jeff Sessions. 

[Kain82]

Like someone mentioned earlier, I'd ask Ashal.  He has experience with these sorts of things.  He must've had a similar problem with SexLab.  I hope you and the mod returns.  You have done great work and brought innovation to FO4.

[jthm222]

Saw the mod up yesterday, but I was tired, figured I could start playing with it tomorrow. *sigh*

 

[RockMic]

They have already existed in the site of clear rules.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/27346-02162014-attention-policy-change-regarding-content-with-underage-characters/

[Tentacus]

I'm not entirely sure what all the hand wringing is about. Reasonable precautions should be taken, but anything can always be circumvented, just ask people who make DRM. I'm just afraid there is a lot of baby being thrown out with the bathwater here that (seemingly) hasn't been the case with previous frameworks.

 

EDIT: ag12's post in another thread reassured that concern a bit.

 

 

Saw the mod up yesterday, but I was tired, figured I could start playing with it tomorrow. *sigh*

 

 

I've been waiting for it to stabalize a bit. With the rate Vinfamy's been working the version I'm running is still quite old, almost baseline FP *sigh* Also, I'm getting reasonably close to finishing my first (good enough to release) mod which will use FP, so having FP's future up in the air freaks me out a little.

 

[aloevera5]

anyone else have johns dissapearing again?  That bug seems to have came back.

[LukeDuke]

Oh boy.. This shit again.. Look some people will always find a way to make their's wild desires come truth, so probably the only ''safe'' way is to completely remove sex mods, but this will affect people who like it to make adult things with adults lol

Most of the asian gaming (and not only) sites have teens ''content'' in them and that's fine for many sadly.. Even on Nexus there are mods that uses CBBE (nude) body as base to make some children/very young females into followers... 

 

[HyperActive]

I really hope you guys can figure this out & come to a good conclusion because i really enjoy the work all you dedicated modders do & i don't want to see this site or its mods & the modders just disappear into oblivion because ya'll have amazing talent & are good people, i truly enjoy this community & her people that this site has generated over the four years i had been here, so i say again i really truly don't this want site to be taken down because of some weird ass un-chemically-balanced persons with some strange fixation on preying on the weak... also i have nothing but Love & Respect for all of yous Modders & the people of this site... except for the ones that caused this to happen.. i hope a big piano lands on them when they're walking past a couple that is renovating their apartment.

[sector001]

I just think its funny you guys are worried about censorship and were playing sex mods...freaking sex mods!  We perverts apparently do have some standards   

[Halstrom]

 

then maybe if you release it again dont the release the source code with it. this will make it more difficult for these groups to edit your mods.

 

You dont really need the Script source code, you can easily disassemble a compiled script to get the source code.

 

Isn´t it possible to put the race checks or blocks into the F4SE plugin ? that should be a lot harder to reach for those people.

 

Maybe you can, but as a scripter myself, I don't know how to do it, I suppose I could google and find out. But couldn't be bothered, maybe half of the people we are trying to block are the same.

And if I really want the source, I'll just ask the modder and odds are they would PM me a copy.

And yeah modders are looking into further hi-tech options of blocking kiddie porn patches of their mods, but the rockspiders just get smarter too.

[Elgate]

I understand the concern, but is that really worth it? To me it feel a bit like those people complaining that they're "offended" by something. I'm not saying to allow pedo-Pornographic mods, but I think that starting to stop content creator for that...

I mean, it feels a bit like not allowing people to buy camera because you CAN film children with it. It's not the intended purpose, it may never even have crossed the designer's mind, but now because someone MIGHT use it for that, camera would be banned until they figure out a way to have the camera stop by itself.

 

TLDR: I'm not against the child-porn ban (some think it help those who have those urges to not try on real children, while other think it entice people to try it. I think both sides are valid, and it's mainly a matter of vote), but I hate to see that the potential conflict between mods from completely unrelated people, who both created content with no active intention to allow child-porn are accountant for the possibility that their content might be used for such things in the wrong hands.

 

 

Now that I'm done complaining, Keep up the good work vinfamy, I hope you'll be able to post your mod again, I love it, but as a lot of others, I was waiting for a stable release before downloading.

[bounty227]

I understand the concern, but is that really worth it? To me it feel a bit like those people complaining that they're "offended" by something. I'm not saying to allow pedo-Pornographic mods, but I think that starting to stop content creator for that...

I mean, it feels a bit like not allowing people to buy camera because you CAN film children with it. It's not the intended purpose, it may never even have crossed the designer's mind, but now because someone MIGHT use it for that, camera would be banned until they figure out a way to have the camera stop by itself.

 

TLDR: I'm not against the child-porn ban (some think it help those who have those urges to not try on real children, while other think it entice people to try it. I think both sides are valid, and it's mainly a matter of vote), but I hate to see that the potential conflict between mods from completely unrelated people, who both created content with no active intention to allow child-porn are accountant for the possibility that their content might be used for such things in the wrong hands.

 

 

Now that I'm done complaining, Keep up the good work vinfamy, I hope you'll be able to post your mod again, I love it, but as a lot of others, I was waiting for a stable release before downloading.

Well, if 'those' sites catch flak from the federal government it will put even more eyes on LL. The content creators from here might even get in to serious trouble even though they did not partake in those particular mods. It's all about safe guarding.

[GrimReaper]

You could enable child sex for xLovers, Sexout and Sexlab. You develop a framework for kinky stuff to happen in a game, people are going to use it, whether you agree with their goals or not. The most you can do is to build some hinderances in your code and that's it. Even if you would be able to make it impossible to modify the code, people are just gonna use stuff like looksmenu, the setscale command and body replacers to achieve the same. Or modify the existing children in the game / those introduced by other mods so that the game doesn't recognize them as children anymore.

 

If you could be held accountable what others do with your code the ones that should be most concerned about this should be Bethesda but they don't give a fuck about it.

[Raider1]

I just think its funny you guys are worried about censorship and were playing sex mods...freaking sex mods!  We perverts apparently do have some standards 

 

Of course I have standards, just because I am cheap doesn't make me easy....er wait... I'm easy not cheap... Ummm.  never mind I'm just a pervert.  Not a provert, but working on getting there.

[Pinute]

Forks are the blessing and the curse of open source software. You can't stop it, nor control it. Kimy can tell you all about how that's a Sisyphean task. I used to pay close attention to the world of gnu software, and believe you me fights over forks can be epic when the dispute is only over styles.

 

Assume that there are people who are better programmers than yourself who are combing your code for ways to circumvent your restrictions. They will succeed. Like Ashal, the best you can do is make a good faith effort that YOUR code doesn't facilitate child porn. 

 

Not publishing it at all is the only way you can prevent your code being used in ways you don't want. That's a legitimate position to take, but, personally, I hope you won't.

 

 

 

 

[Kriegera]

Sadly their modders are likely as talented as ours so time spent trying to block them is better spent developing the mod itself in my opinion. They're going to keep cracking it eventually so rather than play tug of war with the weirdos the better solution might just be to put up very visible and loud disclaimers that we don't condone the modification of this framework for illicit purposes.

[Raider1]

all joking aside, here is what will most likely happen if this mod is not continued.    One, a non child molesting modder will dust off his copy of the mod, alter it and post it as his own either on this site or somewhere else and the whole cycle  starts up again and the second thing that will happen is that the kiddie porn SOBs will dust off their copies of the mod alter it, pass it around to other low life scum sucking bottom feeders and could care less what any of us think at least till they are busted and go to the big house for being worse than slime. 

 

the truth is once something is published, any one and their dog can alter, use it and pervert it.  Its always been that way and probably (sadly)will always be that way. 

 

we now return to the normally sarcastic raider that is loved, hated and possibly feared by small animals and morning people.