Lupine00 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 I have Win 10, and my save times are pretty much instant, whether it's full or auto. Load times aren't long, even with loading crippled to single threaded. I was nervous that loading would be slow when I moved to MO, but it didn't slow down at all. If you have really slow saves (or loads), it would suggest either you need to fix your drive (make some free space and defragment), or something more serious is wrong. Sure, a really underpowered CPU would make things worse, but you'd have other issues with that too.
SuperNixon Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Lupine00 said: I have Win 10, and my save times are pretty much instant, whether it's full or auto. Load times aren't long, even with loading crippled to single threaded. I was nervous that loading would be slow when I moved to MO, but it didn't slow down at all. If you have really slow saves (or loads), it would suggest either you need to fix your drive (make some free space and defragment), or something more serious is wrong. Sure, a really underpowered CPU would make things worse, but you'd have other issues with that too. For me it has something to do with Skyrim making a backup of the save. If I make a save, for example NewSave1, and then save over that save it creates a backup file, NewSave1.ess.bak. When I then save over NewSave1 again and Skyrim attempts to save over the NewSave1.ess.bak file that's apparently when the slowdown occurs. I'm not the only person that has this problem. I'm not even using a fourth of my drive space, I defrag regularly, disc check shows no errors, and my comp is actually pretty decent. Loading a save is never a problem. It does this with Fallout New Vegas as well however Fallout 4 does not have this problem so it may have to do with older Bethesda games. Haven't tried any non Beth games yet to see if it happens. On a side note I was playing around with the new version of Slaverun and I noticed a couple of problems: 1. After failing to please the Jarl of Whiterun I was sent to the dungeon to get slave training. When I get to the falmer scene my character goes to the cell with the two falmer and I get the usual messages but no scene plays. Other scenes with animals play fine and I do have falmer animations installed. 2. The troll scene: first time plays fine but when I tell Fang to go to hell the repeat scene does not play.
galgat Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 3.0 Version ? 1. When I gathered Creatures, It seems to stop after the Horses. Are there any more creatures I can gather for the Colosseum at this time ? 2. Or is there some event I need to Reach or do before I can add any more creature's. 3. Also the dog animations in the Colosseum, were just mostly a Pile up, there was no real, understandable Action of any kind, It was liken to having two animation try to play at the same time, with both having the Player as the Pivot point. I do have Billys, actually I think If there is a sex animation any where for Sexlab use I have it. Though I have Added "SLAL" in front of all, that did not have that addition to there name, to keep them Grouped, and easy to check if they are active.
Lupine00 Posted January 19, 2018 Posted January 19, 2018 9 hours ago, SuperNixon said: When I then save over NewSave1 again and Skyrim attempts to save over the NewSave1.ess.bak file that's apparently when the slowdown occurs. I'm not the only person that has this problem. Ah. That would be why I never have this issue. I don't save over existing saves. Why would you? Skyrim doesn't care if you have a couple of thousand saves. There's probably no problem if you have ten times that. And even if it was a limitation, you could just move them out of the profile when there were too many.
Lupine00 Posted January 20, 2018 Posted January 20, 2018 In 2.1 when my character was enslaved, somewhere along the way the Miscellaneous Quest to show Bellamy your boobs started. No matter how many times I showed Bellamy boobs, that quest just hung around. I can't say if it was stuck or supposed to work like that. I had a few misc quests from Slaverun seem to "stick" like that. I see in 3alpha, a quest called BabyGotBoobs. It never appeared for me in 2.1, and I didn't have the journal messages it has in 3. I didn't see it when testing 3alpha either. The only way I know it exists is looking in the CK. I'm thinking all sorts of issues would manifest if aliases didn't populate properly, which seems to be a Skyrim *thing* that afflicts every mod in some measure. I'm thinking what could be done though, is add a "check aliases" routine, that checks all the persistent aliases used in the utilities are populated, called before running all the major status updates. 1
Kenjoka Posted January 22, 2018 Author Posted January 22, 2018 On 19.1.2018 at 2:38 PM, SuperNixon said: For me it has something to do with Skyrim making a backup of the save. If I make a save, for example NewSave1, and then save over that save it creates a backup file, NewSave1.ess.bak. When I then save over NewSave1 again and Skyrim attempts to save over the NewSave1.ess.bak file that's apparently when the slowdown occurs. I'm not the only person that has this problem. I'm not even using a fourth of my drive space, I defrag regularly, disc check shows no errors, and my comp is actually pretty decent. Loading a save is never a problem. It does this with Fallout New Vegas as well however Fallout 4 does not have this problem so it may have to do with older Bethesda games. Haven't tried any non Beth games yet to see if it happens. On a side note I was playing around with the new version of Slaverun and I noticed a couple of problems: 1. After failing to please the Jarl of Whiterun I was sent to the dungeon to get slave training. When I get to the falmer scene my character goes to the cell with the two falmer and I get the usual messages but no scene plays. Other scenes with animals play fine and I do have falmer animations installed. 2. The troll scene: first time plays fine but when I tell Fang to go to hell the repeat scene does not play. If you have done the 'Walk of Shame' the script tries to play a sexlab call with 2 trolls and these might cause an issue if you don't have an available animation I changed the code which should fix this in v3.0 On 19.1.2018 at 11:26 PM, galgat said: 3.0 Version ? 1. When I gathered Creatures, It seems to stop after the Horses. Are there any more creatures I can gather for the Colosseum at this time ? 2. Or is there some event I need to Reach or do before I can add any more creature's. 3. Also the dog animations in the Colosseum, were just mostly a Pile up, there was no real, understandable Action of any kind, It was liken to having two animation try to play at the same time, with both having the Player as the Pivot point. I do have Billys, actually I think If there is a sex animation any where for Sexlab use I have it. Though I have Added "SLAL" in front of all, that did not have that addition to there name, to keep them Grouped, and easy to check if they are active. There is the mainquest for gathering animals slv_animalmain, and only at stage 0 there is a cheat dialogue topic to complete all specific animal quest. If you started the dog subquest you will be blocked after it. So maybe setstage the slv_animalmain back to 0 and try the cheat This will be fixed in alpha 2... On 20.1.2018 at 2:38 PM, Lupine00 said: In 2.1 when my character was enslaved, somewhere along the way the Miscellaneous Quest to show Bellamy your boobs started. No matter how many times I showed Bellamy boobs, that quest just hung around. I can't say if it was stuck or supposed to work like that. I had a few misc quests from Slaverun seem to "stick" like that. I see in 3alpha, a quest called BabyGotBoobs. It never appeared for me in 2.1, and I didn't have the journal messages it has in 3. I didn't see it when testing 3alpha either. The only way I know it exists is looking in the CK. I'm thinking all sorts of issues would manifest if aliases didn't populate properly, which seems to be a Skyrim *thing* that afflicts every mod in some measure. I'm thinking what could be done though, is add a "check aliases" routine, that checks all the persistent aliases used in the utilities are populated, called before running all the major status updates. The boobs quest is not a 'real' quest to do something, I added it only to track your boob growth (if enabled) and give Bellamy some dialogue lines
Kenjoka Posted January 22, 2018 Author Posted January 22, 2018 So, it's time to report some progress. I guess I have implemented about 90%-95% what I want to have for alpha 2. This means: - adapting all Colosseum quests to be played by a slaver and also by free women. Some weeks ago I thought a free women should not be offered to do such an important task from Pike. But now I enabled even more tasks a free women can do for Pike and when you have gained trust with him(doing more than 5 tasks) he will offer you to build his Colosseum. Also I opened some of the slave tasks to be played as a slaver... if you going to be a filthy slaver. Of course as a slaver and free women you will increase your submissive level and (if enabled) Pike will not hesitate to enslave you when you are at max submissive level - I added some more furnitures for each of the Colosseum parts For the training area and the funfair I used a lot of the new ZAP 8.0 additions, but I am a bit anxious if I should realy stay with version 8.0. At the moment the support thread for zap 8.0 is gone for the second time and seems not to come back soon. Some furnitures do not work for me and in CK I get a lot of error messages from zap. So maybe I will go back to version 7.0 and postpone usage of 8.0 - I added a type of 'Arena' quest like Oblivion had and a second for getting ranks as a beast lover in the arena shows. Here is what the Arena quest looks like and how you unlock features with your rank: Arena fight progression quest Win 3 fights (= maxTasks configured MCM) for progress to next rank for each Rank (1-3) three new additional free gladiator NPC from Training area selectable (= 9 gladiator) 1. Rank: Pit Dog (1-1) enable fights with one enemy enable training fights only Warrior npc : Hama Rogue npc : Domonkos Mage npc : Bandon 2. Rank: Brawler (1-1) Warrior npc : Haldir Rogue npc : Calum Mage npc : Allanon 3. Rank: Bloodletter (1-2) enable fights with two enemies enable deathfights Warrior npc : Artus Rogue npc : Desmond Mage npc : Akiro for each rank (4-6) one new additional free gladiator NPC and one enslaved gladiator NPC from gladiator area (= 3 free + 3 slave gladiators) 4. Rank: Myrmidon (1-2) Warrior npc : Azog Rogue npc : Hannibal (slave) 5. Rank: Warrior (1-3) enable fights with three enemies Warrior npc : Maximus (slave) Mage npc : Dopperfield 6. Rank: Gladiator Rogue npc : Dastan Mage npc : Moudini (slave) for each rank (7 + 8) one new additional free gladiator NPC and one enslaved gladiator NPC from gladiator area (= 2 free + 2 slave gladiators) 7. Rank: Hero (1-3) enable fights with four enemies Warrior npc : Calar Rogue npc : Arno (slave) 8. Rank: Champion (1-4) Warrior npc : Conan (slave) Mage npc : Merlin 9. Rank: Grand Champion (1-4) -> Pike redraws death sentence on slave PC (if still exists) For the animals I checked for what creature type I have sexlab animations available (Billy's, MNC, Anub, FunnyBizness and more) and... wow it's 40 creature types, so here is the 'Animal-show-become-a-beast lover' quest Arena show progression quest Do 3 shows (= maxTasks configured MCM) for progress rank defines the max number of animals for the shows (max is 8)(dragon is limited to 1 only) each rank enables additional new (more scary) possible animal races 1. Rank: Beast Rookie dog, cow, chicken, goat 2. Rank: Kennel Slut horse, skeever, deer, boar 3. Rank: Beast Slut spider, skeleton, draugr, falmer 4. Rank: Beast Addicted riekling, large spider, wolf, chaurus, dwarven spider 5. Rank: Beast Lover bear, sabrecat, troll, horker, netch, dwarven sphere, chaurus hunter 6. Rank: Beast Banger deathhound, frost atronach, gargoyle, chaurus reaper, dwarven ballista, boar+riekling 7. Rank: Beast Hero mammoth, seeker, giant spider, dwarven centurion 8. Rank: Beast Champion dragon priest, vampire lord, werewolf, giant, lurker 9. Rank: Beast Master dragon 10. Rank: Dragon Whore -> Pike redraws death sentence on slave PC (if still exists) At the moment nearly everything new is untested, so I guess the next 2-3 weeks I will do testing and bugfixing before releasing an alpha 2 As always feedback is welcome... :-) 4
Nymra Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, Kenjoka said: So, it's time to report some progress. I guess I have implemented about 90%-95% what I want to have for alpha 2. At the moment nearly everything new is untested, so I guess the next 2-3 weeks I will do testing and bugfixing before releasing an alpha 2 As always feedback is welcome... :-) Holy..... I think Slaverun is more and more becoming THE slavery mod... I think I had everything else installed now and this mod here is way beyond anything else. May I suggest to contact T'ara directly? From what I see, ZAP 8.0 is a whole new world compared top ZAP 7.0 and it would be a shame if a new slaverun 3.0 would not support it. T.ara seems to be very active, maybe you can write directly? And, I may recall that wrong, but T.ara is german and dont you speak german too? As I said, could be a misleading memory
jfraser Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 That looks amazing! The animal parts will be optional, I hope?
Rogwar002 Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 I´m just fooling around in the current alpha, because I had trouble with version 2.1.3. The outview is awesome for v3.0a2. Just played the PSQ part. Funny. Really a god idea. Funniest thing so far was... and I don´t want to spoiler if not all played it this far... was the number with the god in his chamber fucked by some other slaves... Amputator is in use here... O man... what a sight. Small hint, because it is not a bug, but will prevent the progress: If some stupid users like me steal the plugs in the beginning of the game in Belethors shop in Whiterun, the quest is not able to progress, it will not even start, if the plugs are in the inventory. Made the mistake in my attempt with version 2.1.3. And because I don´t wanted to sell goods, I did it NOT in my first attempt in v3.0. In the second one I rememberd what I was doing the first time and did it on purpose. Quest was stuck and I was not able to progress. Now I think this was the reason why it was not working with v2.1.3. As I told few days ago: I thought it was my mistake. Here is the proof. Stupid me. Sparkling shiny plugs... Like the thief I am, I stole them Perhaps you should place them when the quest is started and not once you start the game? Kind regards Rogwar
galgat Posted January 22, 2018 Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Nymra said: Holy..... I think Slaverun is more and more becoming THE slavery mod... I think I had everything else installed now and this mod here is way beyond anything else. May I suggest to contact T'ara directly? From what I see, ZAP 8.0 is a whole new world compared top ZAP 7.0 and it would be a shame if a new slaverun 3.0 would not support it. T.ara seems to be very active, maybe you can write directly? And, I may recall that wrong, but T.ara is german and dont you speak german too? As I said, could be a misleading memory I have always wondered why T,ara had to take a main stream or backbone mod, over for his animations. To me it would seem better, and less Obtrusive to just have made Zaz 7.0 a dependency to his mod, and everyone would be Okay. Unless, his scripting is terrible, and so they take the Back bone mod, and then have to adapt nothing, and can easy just fill it with more junk, much of it seems to be just branch 180 deg. or copied and paste converted with NifSkope. Eventually this will create and animation overload I would think, that FNIS XXL may not be able to over come, but hopefully quality over quantity will eventually be the main direction, and it will get better. But I am just speculating.
Darkon47 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 One issue I noticed is that when you are doing the first slave training quest where you fuck the falmer and the troll, right before fucking them fang repeats his lines a second time so it goes something like Sir what is my training to be You are going to fuck this falmer while I fuck Ivana A falmer! no! You are going to fuck this falmer while I fuck Ivana
Lupine00 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 14 hours ago, Rogwar002 said: Small hint, because it is not a bug, but will prevent the progress: If some stupid users like me steal the plugs in the beginning of the game in Belethors shop in Whiterun, the quest is not able to progress, it will not even start, if the plugs are in the inventory Reminds me that when I first got this quest, it was night, and I was able to have the dialog for it, and Belethor say he'd given me the plugs, even though he was wandering around the town square raping slaves (mainly my character). Needless to say, the quest didn't progress after that, but jammed and broke. If the plugs are going to be an item in the world, then it shouldn't matter how you get them, and the dialog shouldn't be required. Otherwise, the plugs should just be a quest item that appears in your inventory after dialogue progression, and not be an item in the world. Those are the two ways fetch quests are usually designed in Skyrim, and this is not an accident. The first one (get the item however you like) gives the player choices, and doesn't break. Once you pick the item up, it can't be dropped, just handed in. In the second approach, it's less work for the quest author, and it the quest can't break. Other approaches it's probably wise to avoid because it's easy to break them.
Lupine00 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 I spent literal days going through Zaz 8, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, and what use it is. 15 hours ago, galgat said: I have always wondered why T,ara had to take a main stream or backbone mod, over for his animations. To me it would seem better, and less Obtrusive to just have made Zaz 7.0 a dependency to his mod, and everyone would be Okay. This was what T.ara did first, with TUFP and the Zaz extensions. How it ended up morphing into Zaz 8, I don't know. I think a lot of modders wanted Zaz 7 to get some love, because it was a foundation of a bunch of stuff, but had become frozen. Zaz 7 has a ton of bugs, or stuff that doesn't really work right, or at all, or has become dated. Animation filters, blindfolds, a slot system that has largely been superseded by DD... Anyway, Zaz has this big slavery API in it, and there are features there that would be great if they worked reliably. Animation queue, put in cage, whipping, etc. But you can't really use any of it. The Zaz whipping looks better than using an attack (IMHO, the spinning and whirling and "push" problems with attack whipping are pretty intrusive), but you can't really use the Zaz whipping either - and what's more it's player only. The animations can be used, but it's a big effort to get them to transition nice and you end up writing a new animation queue of your own that words on NPCs as well as the player. The put in cage thing totally doesn't work, probably because far too many cage doors have the origin and rotation set wrong for it, but there's something worse than that, I can't figure what it is because the behaviour is inconsistent. In any case, it's easier and more consistent to use a few X-heading markers, so in the end, it's a failure. Then there's the put in furniture system - seriously broken, and even Zaz can't fix your controls and AI state afterwards, you will end up nailed to the furniture regardless of your controls. Far too buggy to use. It's a lot safer to fire an activation and then lock player controls manually. And the slave faction system, and the slotting system, and ... but the designs aren't good enough, complicated, but not flexible enough, and the quality and solidity isn't there. Most of those libraries are just dead-weight. But... There is a lot of great furniture, and animations on it that work through activation, so it's a mixed bag. Whether all those extra furniture anims should be tied into Zaz, is another issue. I think maybe it is true, better to keep that stuff in another mod... Zaz 8 doesn't fix a single code mod, but I believe that was for compatibility reasons, not because it couldn't be fixed. I've said elsewhere that much of Zaz 8 is blighted by camera oddities that seems to flow from a missing flag on collision meshes that makes the camera collide with them when it should not. Another problem is why it forces camera position, to somewhere genuinely useless, or lacks a transition to third-person that is essential. Until the camera stuff is fixed one way or another, a large part of the furniture library is not suitable to put the player in, and only really works for NPCs. Anyway, the politics around Zaz seem to have been toxic for a while. One answer it to skirt around it until it can quietly be dropped from everyone's load order, and by that I mean 7 or 8. I don't see that happening without a major update to SexLab, which also seems frozen. Dodginess in sexlab is really my main complaint with Skyrim, but everyone is using it, even though LL forums are rife with complaints of it dunking them in the river, or dropping them into a giant camp from a great height. My hope right now is that Fores decides to make an easy to use dynamic, synchronised animation queue system, with event callbacks. FNIS is already doing the heavy lifting on all this stuff, but FNIS is not accessible to a lot of modders - it's got quite a learning curve on it. Until that fantasy scenario eventuates, we're at the mercy of two mods that are just not able to move forward for one reason or another. Slaverun skirts around a lot of the issues by relying very heavily on scenes, and a very small palette of animations. So, I really want to see those new furnitures and animations in Slaverun. I want more cages, more punishments, crazy wells and ground prisons, but it's a tough question whether Zaz 8 is the way to get them. Maybe it makes more sense to go the TUFP route, but TUFP didn't get a big takeup, and its development is essentially now Zaz 8 development. Sadly, so many of the basics remain unaddressed. It's been years now, and whip mods got made, but we don't have them, we have that Zpf fishing pole with the reel taken off (the guard should joke about that in the Slaverun prequest). Easily more than 11,000 sex animations available, and we don't have a range of widely useful re-usable whipping and other punishment animation that can be used like Sexlab animations - where the victim actually reacts, instead of being frozen like a manikin. And we don't have a mod like DD for cages and furniture, that works, and tries to make it so mods break each other too much. Still so much to learn here, but I can't believe I'm the only one who sees these holes in the toolkit. Imagine what Slaverun would be like if there were easy access to those animations and functionality, but apparently there's no motivation to animate that stuff. There are some animations, but each one is weirdly specific, or has a furniture item built into it, or some other thing that stops it being easy to use, without at the very least, building new FNIS setups, and jinking about with offsets. Probably the worst that will happen in future is that Zaz 7 stays the standard, Zaz 8 becomes a dead-end, T.ara returns to focus on TUFP, and all newer mods will use DD4 for bindings instead of the control-and-inventory-locking-Zaz-hacks. Progress, but not as much as we might have had if Zaz and SL hadn't stalled. 1
SuperNixon Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 19 hours ago, Kenjoka said: If you have done the 'Walk of Shame' the script tries to play a sexlab call with 2 trolls and these might cause an issue if you don't have an available animation I changed the code which should fix this in v3.0 There is the mainquest for gathering animals slv_animalmain, and only at stage 0 there is a cheat dialogue topic to complete all specific animal quest. If you started the dog subquest you will be blocked after it. So maybe setstage the slv_animalmain back to 0 and try the cheat This will be fixed in alpha 2... The boobs quest is not a 'real' quest to do something, I added it only to track your boob growth (if enabled) and give Bellamy some dialogue lines I'm actually using v3.0 and I do have the animations for trolls. I get a scene for the first time when I enter the cage but like I said after I act rebellious I don't get further scenes. Fang just fucks Ivana. For some reason I think I had this problem in an older version but it was in fact fixed, however the problem seems to be back in 3.0.
Nymra Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Lupine00 said: I spent literal days going through Zaz 8, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, and what use it is. This was what T.ara did first, with TUFP and the Zaz extensions. How it ended up morphing into Zaz 8, I don't know. I think a lot of modders wanted Zaz 7 to get some love, because it was a foundation of a bunch of stuff, but had become frozen. Zaz 7 has a ton of bugs, or stuff that doesn't really work right, or at all, or has become dated. Animation filters, blindfolds, a slot system that has largely been superseded by DD... Anyway, Zaz has this big slavery API in it, and there are features there that would be great if they worked reliably. Animation queue, put in cage, whipping, etc. But you can't really use any of it. The Zaz whipping looks better than using an attack (IMHO, the spinning and whirling and "push" problems with attack whipping are pretty intrusive), but you can't really use the Zaz whipping either - and what's more it's player only. The animations can be used, but it's a big effort to get them to transition nice and you end up writing a new animation queue of your own that words on NPCs as well as the player. The put in cage thing totally doesn't work, probably because far too many cage doors have the origin and rotation set wrong for it, but there's something worse than that, I can't figure what it is because the behaviour is inconsistent. In any case, it's easier and more consistent to use a few X-heading markers, so in the end, it's a failure. Then there's the put in furniture system - seriously broken, and even Zaz can't fix your controls and AI state afterwards, you will end up nailed to the furniture regardless of your controls. Far too buggy to use. It's a lot safer to fire an activation and then lock player controls manually. And the slave faction system, and the slotting system, and ... but the designs aren't good enough, complicated, but not flexible enough, and the quality and solidity isn't there. Most of those libraries are just dead-weight. But... There is a lot of great furniture, and animations on it that work through activation, so it's a mixed bag. Whether all those extra furniture anims should be tied into Zaz, is another issue. I think maybe it is true, better to keep that stuff in another mod... Zaz 8 doesn't fix a single code mod, but I believe that was for compatibility reasons, not because it couldn't be fixed. I've said elsewhere that much of Zaz 8 is blighted by camera oddities that seems to flow from a missing flag on collision meshes that makes the camera collide with them when it should not. Another problem is why it forces camera position, to somewhere genuinely useless, or lacks a transition to third-person that is essential. Until the camera stuff is fixed one way or another, a large part of the furniture library is not suitable to put the player in, and only really works for NPCs. Anyway, the politics around Zaz seem to have been toxic for a while. One answer it to skirt around it until it can quietly be dropped from everyone's load order, and by that I mean 7 or 8. I don't see that happening without a major update to SexLab, which also seems frozen. Dodginess in sexlab is really my main complaint with Skyrim, but everyone is using it, even though LL forums are rife with complaints of it dunking them in the river, or dropping them into a giant camp from a great height. My hope right now is that Fores decides to make an easy to use dynamic, synchronised animation queue system, with event callbacks. FNIS is already doing the heavy lifting on all this stuff, but FNIS is not accessible to a lot of modders - it's got quite a learning curve on it. Until that fantasy scenario eventuates, we're at the mercy of two mods that are just not able to move forward for one reason or another. Slaverun skirts around a lot of the issues by relying very heavily on scenes, and a very small palette of animations. So, I really want to see those new furnitures and animations in Slaverun. I want more cages, more punishments, crazy wells and ground prisons, but it's a tough question whether Zaz 8 is the way to get them. Maybe it makes more sense to go the TUFP route, but TUFP didn't get a big takeup, and its development is essentially now Zaz 8 development. Sadly, so many of the basics remain unaddressed. It's been years now, and whip mods got made, but we don't have them, we have that Zpf fishing pole with the reel taken off (the guard should joke about that in the Slaverun prequest). Easily more than 11,000 sex animations available, and we don't have a range of widely useful re-usable whipping and other punishment animation that can be used like Sexlab animations - where the victim actually reacts, instead of being frozen like a manikin. And we don't have a mod like DD for cages and furniture, that works, and tries to make it so mods break each other too much. Still so much to learn here, but I can't believe I'm the only one who sees these holes in the toolkit. Imagine what Slaverun would be like if there were easy access to those animations and functionality, but apparently there's no motivation to animate that stuff. There are some animations, but each one is weirdly specific, or has a furniture item built into it, or some other thing that stops it being easy to use, without at the very least, building new FNIS setups, and jinking about with offsets. Probably the worst that will happen in future is that Zaz 7 stays the standard, Zaz 8 becomes a dead-end, T.ara returns to focus on TUFP, and all newer mods will use DD4 for bindings instead of the control-and-inventory-locking-Zaz-hacks. Progress, but not as much as we might have had if Zaz and SL hadn't stalled. Holy shit.... Readings like that always make me sad. I really found THE GAME I always desired with all the LoversLab and Skyrim mods and I am still stunned by the size and depth of all the mods and the work of the modding community. But I always "felt" that something is wrong and now you describe my feeling exactly. Nice to know, tho, but also very discouraging for my personal "I hope it is going to happen" list. Damnit
galgat Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Lupine00 said: I spent literal days going through Zaz 8, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, and what use it is. This was what T.ara did first, with TUFP and the Zaz extensions. How it ended up morphing into Zaz 8, I don't know. I think a lot of modders wanted Zaz 7 to get some love, because it was a foundation of a bunch of stuff, but had become frozen. Zaz 7 has a ton of bugs, or stuff that doesn't really work right, or at all, or has become dated. Animation filters, blindfolds, a slot system that has largely been superseded by DD... Anyway, Zaz has this big slavery API in it, and there are features there that would be great if they worked reliably. Animation queue, put in cage, whipping, etc. But you can't really use any of it. The Zaz whipping looks better than using an attack (IMHO, the spinning and whirling and "push" problems with attack whipping are pretty intrusive), but you can't really use the Zaz whipping either - and what's more it's player only. The animations can be used, but it's a big effort to get them to transition nice and you end up writing a new animation queue of your own that words on NPCs as well as the player. The put in cage thing totally doesn't work, probably because far too many cage doors have the origin and rotation set wrong for it, but there's something worse than that, I can't figure what it is because the behaviour is inconsistent. In any case, it's easier and more consistent to use a few X-heading markers, so in the end, it's a failure. Then there's the put in furniture system - seriously broken, and even Zaz can't fix your controls and AI state afterwards, you will end up nailed to the furniture regardless of your controls. Far too buggy to use. It's a lot safer to fire an activation and then lock player controls manually. And the slave faction system, and the slotting system, and ... but the designs aren't good enough, complicated, but not flexible enough, and the quality and solidity isn't there. Most of those libraries are just dead-weight. But... There is a lot of great furniture, and animations on it that work through activation, so it's a mixed bag. Whether all those extra furniture anims should be tied into Zaz, is another issue. I think maybe it is true, better to keep that stuff in another mod... Zaz 8 doesn't fix a single code mod, but I believe that was for compatibility reasons, not because it couldn't be fixed. I've said elsewhere that much of Zaz 8 is blighted by camera oddities that seems to flow from a missing flag on collision meshes that makes the camera collide with them when it should not. Another problem is why it forces camera position, to somewhere genuinely useless, or lacks a transition to third-person that is essential. Until the camera stuff is fixed one way or another, a large part of the furniture library is not suitable to put the player in, and only really works for NPCs. Anyway, the politics around Zaz seem to have been toxic for a while. One answer it to skirt around it until it can quietly be dropped from everyone's load order, and by that I mean 7 or 8. I don't see that happening without a major update to SexLab, which also seems frozen. Dodginess in sexlab is really my main complaint with Skyrim, but everyone is using it, even though LL forums are rife with complaints of it dunking them in the river, or dropping them into a giant camp from a great height. My hope right now is that Fores decides to make an easy to use dynamic, synchronised animation queue system, with event callbacks. FNIS is already doing the heavy lifting on all this stuff, but FNIS is not accessible to a lot of modders - it's got quite a learning curve on it. Until that fantasy scenario eventuates, we're at the mercy of two mods that are just not able to move forward for one reason or another. Slaverun skirts around a lot of the issues by relying very heavily on scenes, and a very small palette of animations. So, I really want to see those new furnitures and animations in Slaverun. I want more cages, more punishments, crazy wells and ground prisons, but it's a tough question whether Zaz 8 is the way to get them. Maybe it makes more sense to go the TUFP route, but TUFP didn't get a big takeup, and its development is essentially now Zaz 8 development. Sadly, so many of the basics remain unaddressed. It's been years now, and whip mods got made, but we don't have them, we have that Zpf fishing pole with the reel taken off (the guard should joke about that in the Slaverun prequest). Easily more than 11,000 sex animations available, and we don't have a range of widely useful re-usable whipping and other punishment animation that can be used like Sexlab animations - where the victim actually reacts, instead of being frozen like a manikin. And we don't have a mod like DD for cages and furniture, that works, and tries to make it so mods break each other too much. Still so much to learn here, but I can't believe I'm the only one who sees these holes in the toolkit. Imagine what Slaverun would be like if there were easy access to those animations and functionality, but apparently there's no motivation to animate that stuff. There are some animations, but each one is weirdly specific, or has a furniture item built into it, or some other thing that stops it being easy to use, without at the very least, building new FNIS setups, and jinking about with offsets. Probably the worst that will happen in future is that Zaz 7 stays the standard, Zaz 8 becomes a dead-end, T.ara returns to focus on TUFP, and all newer mods will use DD4 for bindings instead of the control-and-inventory-locking-Zaz-hacks. Progress, but not as much as we might have had if Zaz and SL hadn't stalled. T, ara, messed up zaz so bad, that the original Author of ZAz had to come back, and make Zaz 7.0. to correct the error's T,ara made. Now T,ara, is back taking it again, and as best I can tell without the permission of Chris, so Yes I am Leary of everything he does in 8.0. I stand by what I said, he could easy have done all he wanted, by making his own mod, and keeping Zaz as a dependency, this would always allow backward compatibility, and no one would have to be worried, about it being messed up again, as it was last time T,ara grabbed it, and tried modding it. This is not meant as a slight to T,ara, but in my opinion of what I think would have been the best choice, and would have cause Myself, and many other Modders I work with the least concern. I like T,ara, and i like much of what they do very, very Much!, but grabbing a Back bone mod, is a very worrisome thing. When your Track record is, or has been bad in the past. I am sorry I have high jacked this thread.. It was only a concern, I did not expect anyone to write a book about it. 1
Rogwar002 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 In the End there is the need to say: all modders do a great job, because every single one of them is doing this the best way they can and I really believe without any bad intentions. Otherwise they wouldn´t post it for us to download with there names written on it. Maybe some things are not working out, like they did assume it, but again: every single one is doing it the best way they can. And with every mistake they make, they will grow. My respect they have. For sure! Because I still only use TESedit and did nothing with the CK. I think I never ran it in the correct way. As always I will take any bug or feature with humor. (storymode on) Poor little Sam the ... let´s say slave... sometimes is stuck in ... events... yeah events... hmm... and if she would have a hint of a brain or one dominating cell... she would prefer to run? "If you want to be a real daughter of Coldhabour, I will take your hands." "... your feet..." "...your legs..." "...your arms..." Hovering slave....huh? okay okay... gods... demons... but hover? Serious? Pin her on a bloody board, put her in a bloody basket, set her on top of a blood coverd table, make her fit on a blood red socket... did I mention the blood I´m missing? (storymode off) And in the end I LMFAO because it fit. And it was fun! Thanks Kenjoka, Thanks all the other readers and modders, coder, writer, painter, designer... No clue how long I mod my skyrim, but every single day I play (steam is telling me 2819 hours! oh fu...sorry), I´m smiling for the many ... creative? ideas you have! Without you all I would have a PS4 and play what? Candy crush? Or is this Sony thingy doing better now? There is nothing better than a room melting gaming PC and 198 mods in the load order! regards Rogwar mumble... 2819 divided by 24... mumble....phew... less than half...ok... let´s fire the engine!
bicobus Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 9 hours ago, Lupine00 said: Until that fantasy scenario eventuates, we're at the mercy of two mods that are just not able to move forward for one reason or another. Basically Zaz, the modder, retired and ashal motivations for Sexlab are dwindling. There is so much you can do when everything is weighted on the shoulders of virtually 2 individuals. Maintaining something already existing is quite a chore, but maintaining something already existing that you didn't make is just insanity. We'll most likely see a third framework thing before any good work on either sexlab or zaz. Unless Ashal whip up his editor and write down a sexlab 2.0, yet that would not be backward compatible (so the third framework thing still stands).
fred200 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, bicobus said: Basically Zaz, the modder, retired and ashal motivations for Sexlab are dwindling. There is so much you can do when everything is weighted on the shoulders of virtually 2 individuals. Maintaining something already existing is quite a chore, but maintaining something already existing that you didn't make is just insanity. We'll most likely see a third framework thing before any good work on either sexlab or zaz. Unless Ashal whip up his editor and write down a sexlab 2.0, yet that would not be backward compatible (so the third framework thing still stands). Zaz came out of retirement to do ZazAnimation 7.0 (which works very well), and Ashal has Sexlab SE 1.63 Beta (The Fish release) which is backward compatible. Times move on - and mod ports are suddenly feasible. 1
SuperNixon Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 https://www.loverslab.com/topic/91861-sexlab-framework-se-163-beta-1-jan-12-2018/ There is some progress on Sexlab. Nothing earth shattering but progress. LE version won't be out until after SE but still. Does have some nice changes though.
bicobus Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 Just now, fred200 said: Zaz came out of retirement to do ZazAnimation 7.0 (which works very well), and Ashal has Sexlab SE 1.63 Beta (The Fish release) which is backward compatible. Times move on - and mod ports are suddenly feasible. Not what I said. Zaz is retired, as in will not come back to work on ZAP anymore. 7.0 was merely a fix for old FNIS related files, no fundamental changes for the user. Sexlab SE still bears the issues discussed here, because it still has the same hacky base. It's an old project, with old code and old ways to do things. Ashal interest for sexlab 1 seems to be dwindling. Not dead, just slowly going away as it is feature complete for all intent and purpose. Also I hate it when people comes with their tits out claiming it's time to "move on" because beta versions of tools are out. They are beta for a reason, and it doesn't change the fact that a huge amount of content is available for LE which isn't going away. (Sorry about this bit, I might have misinterpreted your meaning.) 3
Seeker88 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 I have no idea how hard this would be to code, but it would be an awesome lore/immersion MCM option to have enslaved Stormcloak-faction cities exclude free Nord women from the nudity laws (including Nord PCs). It would really reinforce the "Skyrim for Nords" theme and highlight the racial prejudice, as well as make an interesting integration of the Civil War progression. Finally, a reason to back Ulfric in the war, so free Nord women can remain proud shieldmaidens! Of course, you are out of luck if you get enslaved... For extra fun, make Imperial-faction slave cities have exemptions for High Elves (you know the Thalmor would insist!). How hilarious would it be to have Taarie and Endarie dressed in their finery, advising naked players to "rethink their outfit".
Lupine00 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 It's a good question whether Zaz 8 is going to be able to overcome the political and technical barriers. If it doesn't take off, hopefully we'll get a new TUFP release to compensate. Or some kind of super-TUFP that somehow rolls in the Zaz extension pack. As of earlier this week, T.ara was still adding new assets to Zaz 8 and insisting TUFP is not the future. T.ara also seems to believe that zpf-based bondage clothing is the way forward... I guess we'll see. If you're building on Zaz 8 now, that it's probably because you want the new assets - otherwise you'd use 7. 8 is ultimately 7 + new assets (TUFP + Zaz extension), so, if a new TUFP+extension ever comes out, you can use that instead. And for now Zaz 8 is code compatible with 7, so... Yeah. I think the goal was to stop having to make merge patches for extension or something. There will surely be either a Zaz 8 "update" or a new TUFP. I see no sign of T.ara giving up. Personally, I'd rather these new assets were in an assets-only mod, and not bundled up with Zaz. The idea that everyone who needs Zaz needs those assets is absurd, and the temptation to vary the Zaz code in 8 so it drifts away from 7-compatible will be high.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now