Slaverun Reloaded (03-June-2018)

[AWHA]

On 1/11/2018 at 12:32 AM, Kenjoka said:

I think Zaira has done some outfit management for maria eden, but papyrus und construction kit offer very few functions to work with outfits. So at the moment I have no plans to build something like that... maybe some day Zaira will build a framework for that

 

for your suggestions? can you give me a link where they are?

 

It's here:

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/52885-slaverun-reloaded-28-december-2017/?do=findComment&comment=2089839

 

[Lupine00]

In 3 alpha ...

As a slave, I don't have dialogues on Bellamy. I can't ask him to check out my boobs, or for kisses, or to get devices (or remove them).

Similarly, Pike has nothing like that, and he used to have in 2.X

Finn is no use, as he just churns over his topic of the day, but again, doesn't put on devices, or take them off, or demand sex.

 

Is it normal for Pike and Bellamy to not have that dialogue functionality now?

Should I be asking the Slave Agents or something? (They put devices on me, every time they see me, it seems).

 

Or is this broken stuff caused by (a) cheating, (b) actual bug ?

[Lupine00]

I found I could use the debug functionality in SLSF to turn off Finn's SLSF comments, and I'm guessing there's an API call to flip them too (the debug text alludes to this in fact). This didn't stop comments however, so some (or all) are the Slaverun comments that were much less frequent in 2.X

 

Probably, any character who has Slaverun dialog of any consequence shouldn't emit the random comments, as there's no guessing how they might conflict with their dialog. I've noticed the disconnect isn't just with Finn.

 

Time and again, I get humorously incongruous or absurd comments, when put against the immediately preceding or following story dialogue.

 

I notice that SLSF isn't seeing any tags that would make it increase Masochism rating either, even though my character has completed the Pain Slut stuff (and didn't even cheat through it). It's worth taking a look at what SLSF has logged for different areas, to check if the tags being used are appropriate. Likely SLSF doesn't trigger any changes from Slaverun whipping, and needs to be given a bit of help with an explicit API call to modify fame in those cases - both for the victim and the aggressor.

[Lupine00]

Having convinced myself, I won't see any crawling with the build or setup I'm using, returned to take at the female slaver path.

 

Before I get into the defects, I really like this path. It's a weird inversion to see it from the other side, and the feeling of risk, and danger, the peril of the tightrope walk, is palpable.

In comparison, as a slave, there isn't really any way you can fail. Of course you get made to fail, but there's nothing you can do about that.

 

If the slaver path doesn't force failure on you, but simply creates actual challenges: tasks that might go wrong, it will really be great to play.

 

 

Got two initial tasks off Pike.

First task, in dungeon, has no quest marker. It does not seem to be working. I can whip slaves, but nothing comes of it. I can't find any slaves or characters with dialog relating to it.

Second task, telling free women about the laws, working, but...

 

Quite a few free women wearing clothes. I can't seem to arrest them, device them, or otherwise punish them. A little disappointing.

Hopefully can at least build up to it?

 

OTOH, some women can be enslaved, whether they were complying or not. 

 

All the women refer to me with male pronouns. Quite a bit of quest dialog does too.

 

 

Then, in contrast there is plenty of dialog tailored for female slaver, but all of it is about how women are born to serve men, and the PC is destined for slavery.

PC exhibits some uncertainty.

 

It would be nice if there was some more confident dialog, that wasn't quite so delusional as "I am special" which is clearly inviting the inevitable fall.

The slavers, in true slaver style would take some pretty rough comebacks in their stride. It's all in good fun, right?

 

e.g.

 

NewlyEnslavedFollower: "They're just waiting for you to make a mistake. The first excuse they get, they'll try and enslave you."

Dovaslaver: "You're probably right. They're welcome to try. Pike'd look pretty funny trying to fuck me with his severed dick stuffed in his mouth."

NewlyEnslavedFollower: "I thought you were my friend, but you're really just a psycho."

Dovaslaver: "I think you mean 'Just a psycho, Master.' Now I'm going to have to whip you. Stupid slave."

NewlyEnslavedFollower: "Sorry master. Please punish this worthless slave."

 

Bellamy: "Do you really know how to handle a big cock. Why don't I fuck you now and we'll see how you deal?"

Dovaslaver: "Fuck you Bellamy. Your tiny penis wouldn't even come close to satisfying me."

Bellamy: <laughing animation>

 

Pike: ".... rambling rant about women's place ..."

Dovaslaver: "If I jammed a devious plug up your ass, you'd cum too. What does that mean? Think about it."

Pike: "I think it's time you got on your knees and wrapped your lips around my cock. Wouldn't that suit you better than slaving?"

Dovaslaver: "I'm here for business, but if you want to fuck around, why don't you get on your knees and suck?"

Pike: "<laughing animation> You remind me of someone."

 

 

The other thing that could be more fun about being a slaver, without changing a single quest sequence or line of dialog...

Let the player whip manually. Don't turn it over to AI, every time there's a story-based whipping.

As the slaves are all your actors, or are trivially indentified by being a follower, or having said specific dialog, you can put a whip-hit counter on them, and consult it any time it might be interesting, without even faffing about with cloaks, time checks, or any other fragile stuff usually associated with running scripts on nearby NPCs.

 

i.e. Put the same slave-functions alias on all slaves, including the PC's enslaved follower(s), which for some reason lack dialog topics that are on any other random slave.

Currently, there's the oddity that the PC can go up to random slaves and demand sex, but not their own slave.

 

Could even ask random slaves how they feel about slavery, and sometimes they'll complain about it, and you can punish them.

Or they could ask why you aren't a slave. And you can punish them.

Or they could answer submissively, and beg you to whip and fuck them.

 

Most of this stuff is sort of there already, but it comes and goes, you can do it, one time, then you can't. You can do it on a particular quest, then you can't.

 

 

I made myself some harness armor, so I have the proper look.

 

[jfraser]

8 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Having convinced myself, I won't see any crawling with the build or setup I'm using, returned to take at the female slaver path.

 

Before I get into the defects, I really like this path. It's a weird inversion to see it from the other side, and the feeling of risk, and danger, the peril of the tightrope walk, is palpable.

In comparison, as a slave, there isn't really any way you can fail. Of course you get made to fail, but there's nothing you can do about that.

 

If the slaver path doesn't force failure on you, but simply creates actual challenges: tasks that might go wrong, it will really be great to play.

 

 

Got two initial tasks off Pike.

First task, in dungeon, has no quest marker. It does not seem to be working. I can whip slaves, but nothing comes of it. I can't find any slaves or characters with dialog relating to it.

Second task, telling free women about the laws, working, but...

 

Quite a few free women wearing clothes. I can't seem to arrest them, device them, or otherwise punish them. A little disappointing.

Hopefully can at least build up to it?

 

OTOH, some women can be enslaved, whether they were complying or not. 

 

All the women refer to me with male pronouns. Quite a bit of quest dialog does too.

 

 

Then, in contrast there is plenty of dialog tailored for female slaver, but all of it is about how women are born to serve men, and the PC is destined for slavery.

PC exhibits some uncertainty.

 

It would be nice if there was some more confident dialog, that wasn't quite so delusional as "I am special" which is clearly inviting the inevitable fall.

The slavers, in true slaver style would take some pretty rough comebacks in their stride. It's all in good fun, right?

 

e.g.

 

NewlyEnslavedFollower: "They're just waiting for you to make a mistake. The first excuse they get, they'll try and enslave you."

Dovaslaver: "You're probably right. They're welcome to try. Pike'd look pretty funny trying to fuck me with his severed dick stuffed in his mouth."

NewlyEnslavedFollower: "I thought you were my friend, but you're really just a psycho."

Dovaslaver: "I think you mean 'Just a psycho, Master.' Now I'm going to have to whip you. Stupid slave."

NewlyEnslavedFollower: "Sorry master. Please punish this worthless slave."

 

Bellamy: "Do you really know how to handle a big cock. Why don't I fuck you now and we'll see how you deal?"

Dovaslaver: "Fuck you Bellamy. Your tiny penis wouldn't even come close to satisfying me."

Bellamy: <laughing animation>

 

Pike: ".... rambling rant about women's place ..."

Dovaslaver: "If I jammed a devious plug up your ass, you'd cum too. What does that mean? Think about it."

Pike: "I think it's time you got on your knees and wrapped your lips around my cock. Wouldn't that suit you better than slaving?"

Dovaslaver: "I'm here for business, but if you want to fuck around, why don't you get on your knees and suck?"

Pike: "<laughing animation> You remind me of someone."

 

 

The other thing that could be more fun about being a slaver, without changing a single quest sequence or line of dialog...

Let the player whip manually. Don't turn it over to AI, every time there's a story-based whipping.

As the slaves are all your actors, or are trivially indentified by being a follower, or having said specific dialog, you can put a whip-hit counter on them, and consult it any time it might be interesting, without even faffing about with cloaks, time checks, or any other fragile stuff usually associated with running scripts on nearby NPCs.

 

i.e. Put the same slave-functions alias on all slaves, including the PC's enslaved follower(s), which for some reason lack dialog topics that are on any other random slave.

Currently, there's the oddity that the PC can go up to random slaves and demand sex, but not their own slave.

 

Could even ask random slaves how they feel about slavery, and sometimes they'll complain about it, and you can punish them.

Or they could ask why you aren't a slave. And you can punish them.

Or they could answer submissively, and beg you to whip and fuck them.

 

Most of this stuff is sort of there already, but it comes and goes, you can do it, one time, then you can't. You can do it on a particular quest, then you can't.

 

 

I made myself some harness armor, so I have the proper look.

 

You could share the armor... ^ ^

[zhuguannan123]

On 2018/1/12 at 4:58 AM, fred200 said:

A lower love value would mean you never get the White Wedding and I don't think Pike would forgive your death sentence.

Short answer: You will wind up being spit-roasted and die.

thx man~

[Nazzzgul666]

@Kenjoka No clue if Slaverun is affected at all, just wanted to let you know that POP now includes PO, so the name of the .esp changed... in case you're searching the .esp name for compatibility.

[Lupine00]

I went back and read Kenjoka's post about the alpha more carefully (as I was worried I'd missed something that is causing the very frequent issue of Slaverun leaving the player controls locked at the end of a non-sex scene).

 

Totally unrelated to that issue, I found:

 

If no animation for the animal is found at all, the scripts should be able to handle that. But if you want to see animal shows I recommend to install Billy animations

- the arena fight has the option that you won't die (player is set essential) and some very brutal post death action will happen.

 

There are actually (three?) Billy packs. Do we need all, or just some?

And to what extent is it necessary, if we already have the basic MNC stuff in?

 

And can we get rid of other packs, because Billy will provide comprehensive "creature vs bound human" animations?

It's an issue, because its pretty easy to hit an animation count limit, and then you have to change-up your FNIS, and even then, there's a cost to having thousands of animations installed. With SexLab, Skyrim 32-bit is creaking and groaning, like an old ship in a storm already, and this kind of loading is pushing its limits.

 

I guess this raises the question, what SLAL packs should we have for Slaverun, generally?

 

As well as MNC, I use FunnyBizness, as it covers a lot of common cases, like bound victim + animal, large groups, aggressive vs yoke, etc.

But it's a huge pack, that adds an insane number of animations, some of which are probably unnecessary for any feasible scenario, and there're so many it's hard to work which sub-packs to install. Its addition of some large group animations is very useful. I'm not sure how Slaverun would have functioned without them.

 

What most SLAL packs don't tell you anywhere is the 'tag coverage'. I wish they would all publish a list of tags for each animation, instead of doing what they do, which is to give every animation a cryptic, quirky name, and put it in a pack with some suggestive title like "Necro" ... which you might think has necrophilia anims for puppet master in it, but as it turns out, most of them aren't really that. With Billy you can tell the animal involved, but the links to the previews have joke names, though at least there ARE previews, but not a word on the tags.

 

I've seen other posters say they love the Anub pack, or some other pack, but not Kenjoka.

 

So, this is the first time I've seen an "official" recommendation.

 

Are the Billy packs effectively going to be a softdep for Arena content in the future? Or can we stumble along just fine with only MNC in there?

[Zapato]

good try to install it I have version 2.1.3 and when I put it in the MMN and install it does not start the game someone knows why it could be? I have all the requirements and still pulls me from the game

[Lupine00]

Just a random ramble on game play in Slaverun...

 

 

Slaverun lacks internal game-play, but it's fine because it can offload that task to Vanilla Skyrim

 

When I was playing 2.X, I opted to go for slave from the start, and continued to play vanilla content. I think I balanced the two fairly evently, and was level 44+ (depending on which end we're talking about) when I explored the various endings. I'd say this is a pretty typical level to end up at, if you follow that path. I didn't go massively out of my way to search out vanilla content, and I still have masses of stuff stacked up. I only took the main storyline as far as getting the dragon wall or whatever it's called, and stopped it there. I think it wouldn't be too unusual for a player who likes to mix in vanilla content to hit level 50, 60, or higher.

 

I had one serious clash between Slaverun and vanilla, when trying to make Delphine a slave while she was trying to send me to the Thalmor embassy. Seriously, do not get into that situation. It can totally break your game, and jam the questlines on both Slaverun and vanilla main story. I resolved by reloading back a few saves, then completing all of the Embassy stuff before resuming Slaverun.

 

Delphine is too important a vanilla NPC to enslave, however "funny" it might be. The only way this should be done is to make a fake Delphine, so the original NPC doesn't get dialog or gear changes, and give the player a way to switch which one is in the Sleeping Giant via dialog on Orgnar.

 

But moving on... Overall, the experience was a lot of fun. From a game-play perspective, it worked really well. I had some vanilla challenges, intermixed with Slaverun run-around quests (that you basically cannot fail). Doing the vanilla content meant the lack of failure possibilities - the absence of challenge in the slave path of Slaverun - isn't really an issue.

 

And the slaver path very much encourages levelling and vanilla play. And female slaver is basically MADE of peril. So I won't mention that again. I'm really only interested in the pure slavery path here...

 

 

Slaverun Slave Storyline Dialogue is incongruous with Vanilla Levelling

 

However, that kind of play conflicts with the Slaverun story. Over and again, almost every NPC you talk to assumes you are a weak-willed, weak-bodied, bimbo cum-dumpster , and the only strength they attribute to you is the ability to take a huge amount of cock without dying. That's pretty magical in itself, but it's not the same as having blown ten levels past the level cap of most NPCs, or having legendary combat skills. Also, once you start to level, there are a lot of dragons, and you cannot fight them if you are in devices. I killed a blood dragon while heavily deviced, but I was still able to wear my armor. Anything that blocks armor is going to severely gimp you, and the next time an ancient dragon pops, you are dead. Dragons don't just give up, so once one is on you, you can't just run away (especially if you can barely walk). So, having gone down that path, you kind of have to avoid devices, or cheat them off if they're ever a problem. (Though slaverun characters don't seem to remove keys, so you can just unlock them most times). (Edit here: Yes I forgot to mention Skyrim Unbound, which is an alternate start that can remove dragons, and make you just a normal person instead of the dragonborn. I used this prior to playing Slaverun, but wasn't sure if they were compatible. I think I know now how to ensure they work well together).

 

And though there's a succubus quest or two, that doesn't really fit in the story either. I think maybe that could be fixed with only minor dialog additions, but that's a story issue, not a game-play issue. From a game-play perspective, succubus works great in Slaverun.

 

 

Slaverun Slave Story seems to prefer Non-Levelling Approach (pure Slaverun slavery, with no vanilla content)

 

So, to make the story work, it seems the best way to play a slave is as a weak, non-levelling type, who never does vanilla content, and never triggers any dragon-spawning. They you can get deviced up to the max, and struggle on through. It's impossible to fail. It just takes you longer if you can't see, can barely move, and can't pick anything up.

 

There's the problem. There is no peril in the slave path. No actual "game", just a story that unfolds as you walk back and forth between two suitably remote locations with a sufficient number of annoying loading doors (each of which is a potential crash).

 

 

This was something CD got right (while getting it so so wrong).

 

In CD, the mining tasks (and anything below) are so tediously boring for the player, that they are desperate never to fall back down to doing that stuff once they've got past them once. And while I'd say it's super-wrong to make your mod boring on purpose, at least the thread of that tedium creates genuine peril. But games shouldn't be boring on purpose. That's just crazy.

 

 

The Problem Is...

 

In Slaverun, the pure slave path is not a game, it's a story. It's very linear, and then you get an ending. Any choices you might have made really only play out at the end.

 

During play, the only peril is in going to a new town the first time - and even then, you can go by carriage if you can endure the rest stops, which are risk free.

 

It is not a game, it's a story with clicks. Better than those interactive books you can buy, but Skyrim is a game, and the game part is important. If Slaverun's story were in a book, or a TV series, you might not choose to spend dozens of hours on it.

 

With the addition of Finn, it seems he can handle reasonable threats, so there's no peril in walking to a new town at all now. I walked to Falkreath, blindfolded and mittened. It was no problem. I'm not sure if he can handle frost trolls, but if he can't, I guess that just means you resort to carriage trip.

 

But apart from a little risk travelling, there's no danger and no possibility to fail. Maybe that changes if you have to do the Arena, but that raises the question. How is an unlevelled character going to fare in the Arena? Will they get wiped? Does it ultimately force you to level off vanilla content?

The Arena makes perfect sense for tough slavers, less so for helpless slaves that don't know how to do anything but take a lot of cock and look pretty doing it.

 

 

So, Arena, aside, the slave path needs possibilities of failure, something to make it a game, not just a story you click through.

 

 

Possibilities

 

These are options, possible solutions. There may be many better ways, or similar ways with subtle differences.

Here, I try to look ahead to possible problems and address them too, as any useful game design should.

 

The path already trodden is the CD approach. This could be used as inspiration. Make it so the PC can fail, but can retry.

 

Failure can be punished (though not always), and punishment means being sent to do some task that is supposedly less fun than advancing the story (but which might actually be more fun in infrequent doses, when presented as a change from the usual).

 

Yes, punishment should be a task. Not just a scene. Of course, it's Slaverun, so there would always be whippings and rapes, but the punishment shouldn't consist of nothing but whippings and rapes (and animal rapes are still rapes).

 

Why? Because doing so makes punishment a non-interactive click-through and increases the player's overall disinterest level in watching basically the same whipping unfold for the four-hundredth time, or the same sex scene for the nine-hundredth. It would be boring, and it would make the main content more boring too.

 

 

Ideally, failure should be player-skill based to some extent. Not just random, or based off stats (character skills).

 

That is the game part. Skyrim combat is mostly about stats, having gear, potions, levels and skills, but there is also some mechanical skill and basic planning involved. But the player feels in control of the outcome, and that it's not foregone, or purely random, but down to some element of skill. They feel they made a difference.

 

Randomness Has Its Place

 

All the above being said, I think it would also make a lot of sense for may of the dialogs you go through to involve Speech skill checks.

 

This aspect of randomness, or element of doubt, that the player can partially control (by purposely levelling speech) makes it feel less like a click-through and more like a game.

 

Gags debuff speech though... Slaverun could let you beg Finn to remove your gag any time you are indoors. He could put it back when you go outside.

Appropos W&T debuffs speech... Too bad. Make sure you aren't crippled from rough sex before you try to persuade a Jarl. It's a gameplay aspect, albeit a weak one.

 

Intimidate? Seriously? Slaverun dialogs would rarely allow Intimidate. And when they did, the threat would be from the slavers, not you.

 

And with LOTS of real speech checks, you can raise speech. Would need a hack to stop you levelling from it, but that's doable.

Slaverun could even set its own special speech perks on you as the story progressed.

 

Eager NPCs gives you a lot more chances to raise speech, and isn't totally incongruous with Slaverun dialogs. It's totally optional.

 

The failure scenarios (tasks) could allow you chances to practice/train and raise speech too.

 

 

So Much Bother

 

The core changes could be done generically, but the speech checks in quest dialogs would (probably) be a big chore to add, but would change the experience a huge amount: creating a sense of uncertainty in interactions and quests that were previously just click-throughs. On the up-side, it could be done incrementally, updating dialogs gradually during normal development and maintenance of the mod.

 

 

But how to add failure and make it something the player is responsible for, when all you do is talk? That's a tricky one.

 

I don't see how it could be done without adding some kind of sex mini-game, where you have to get your partner to cum before they injure you, or tear you to pieces.

 

If such a mini-game existed, not only would it make all the repetitious sex of Slaverun into game-play, but it would be super useful in an Arena context.

 

I'm well aware that SexLab Separate Orgasms has a sex mini-game of a sort, but it has no real consequences.

 

Another issue is suddenly arousal might start to matter, and that's bad, because SexLab Aroused is mostly garbage, and the 'Enhancements' mostly do not work due to poor coding and script race-conditions. Indeed, arousal should have an event queue, but it has no such smarts...

(Read more of my rants against Aroused on the DCL thread).

Spoiler

 

I find SexLabAroused fails technically, fails as a simulation, and fails as good game-play design.

It is the single worst thing in any mod that worries about arousal.

Yes. I've read the source, and I disagree with the model, and the implementation, and its fairly easy to show the implementation doesn't work and is update delay sensitive, and prone to race problems. The authors seems to have skipped basic calculus, and the mod does not even actually store the time it last updated you (or an NPC), so how can it properly account for missed, delayed, or premature updates? (What I'm saying is if you're going to use a logarithmic model, you need an integrating solution that operates over a known but variable time). And the cloaks thing seems to place quite a load on scripting generally. An ability to resolve updates over an arbitrary time-slice would make it possible to use a request/push-driven approach with lower load.

If you are one of the authors of SLA, and you're reading this, feel free to be outraged. I don't think the authors were dumb, but I don't think they considered how much would depend on the behaviour of SLA, or how it can in some cases mean life or death for the PC. Nor were they (probably) professionals with years of game-design or simulation background, but rather just some people playing about, learning as they went, but anyway, enough of the politics...

 

 

This is why, right now, you simply cannot make it so that the "gameplay" aspect of Slaverun is about managing arousal levels.

 

DCL can sort of get away with it, in sex-lite games, but Slaverun is full of "exposure" and your arousal catapults around like mad.

Eager NPCs adds the potions to moderate it for a bit, but I don't like that mechanic, and it doesn't fit with the slave story either.

It's practically impossible to hold it down in Slaverun. There are naked people and sex happening everywhere. Throw a succubus PC in there, with miasma, and every NPC is pegged at 100 arousal, all the time. This creates something of a feedback loop.

Even after sex they can't get it down to single digits, and the same NPC will chain rape you for minutes, or hours, if you let them - desperately trying to clear an arousal they can never decrease, and which if they do manage to lower, it will increase again in a minute.

 

 

In Conclusion

 

It's not like Slaverun isn't good as it is. It's great, a huge story, with masses of content and loads of fun ideas.

There are lots of ways to play it that work, and maybe the first time you play, the story is enough to make it unimportant that there's no game-play or genuine peril in the pure slave approach.

 

It's easy enough for the player to fall back on vanilla if they get bored of pure slave, but it would just be so great if Slaverun could do more to make that pure slave play style into an actual game... So when something happens, when you get gagged, or bound, or chain-raped by horses, it feels like it made a difference, and like there are consequences. But not consequences that make it unplayable, or that are equivalent to death and reload.

 

Mixing this threat into the female slaver path in a subtle way could lead to some fantastic playthroughs. Female slaver maybe needs a few tweaks now to feel like you have proper choices and that the choices seem linked to consequences that are fair and non-arbitrary, but there's already a proof of concept in 2.X, and improvements in the alpha, but it is so full of possibilities, there's way more room to grow.

 

I've kited some ideas on what definitely can be done, without any "hard" scripting, stuff that already has recipes, or that other mods have done.

 

I've also put forward the possibility of a mini-game, which I don't offer a design for. I think there are a lot of possibilities here. SLSO offers a sort of proof-of-concept, but it's "mini-game" is not really a game itself. It merely shows it might be possible to make ... something.

 

From a non Slaverun oriented perspective, I've got some ideas in this area, and have been thinking on them for some months now. I have an idea that I think I could bring to punishment too, but it's all a long way from getting done. Right now, I'm starting small. Even if I had something, I'm not sure Kenjoka would necessarily want it.

 

 

Back in reality, I think it would be awesome if Kenjoka could further develop the theme of "tasks as punishment" in Slaverun generally, and maybe integrate Speech Skill into the game (including intimidate for the slaver path), on an incremental basis (not all at once). I'm pretty sure he made a conscious choice not to use speech, due to issues with frequency of use being too low, or too high, needing to worry about difficulties, and other balancing pains. But I think he should reconsider. The balancing pains are worth it.

 

But even if I could, I wouldn't know where to put any of these wishes in his list of priorities, or even what those priorities are.

 

Instead, hopefully, this discussion will help him crystallise some thoughts that are currently vague and uncertain.

 

 

That's me done for now. I'm taking a break from Slaverun, and commenting on Slaverun, until the next alpha. Whether that's hours, or weeks away, I can only guess.

[Nazzzgul666]

I've found something i was looking for, in case ZAP animations aren't enough.

https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/1089-miscellaneous-animations/

I've wanted some of those several times, especially for the inspections, like the bending over to inspect ass/pussy and the dancing for showing tits.. Although animation 5 from here would be fine too, i'm not sure if it can be used as a resource and it's too much for idle in general, at least for the player. Seeing it used for the slaves from slave girls was fun, though.

 

I agree with Lupine in parts, at least at some points a task for failure would be nice. Imho gameplay isn't that important, but the whipping indeed gets boring... and at some point, both whipping and rape can't be considered serious punishment anymore. It's what you get anyways all the time, punishing others for your failure (or the other way around) is kind of a solution, but imho used too often. 

Where i disagree is that vanilla tasks are that much different from clicking through. With DA and Defeat, i can't die. So any (vanilly) fight tasks are just as well only click through tasks, but without any dialogue which makes them just less exciting than rape. 

That said, i have two ideas right now for punishment tasks:

- become a breeding sow (may vary or increment, start with orcs maybe, continue with falmers, then chaurus/spiders?)

- be rented to a giants camp

In both cases you should get back after giving birth/one day. For the breeding sow part, i guess the best solution would be to just increase belly & play leitos birth animation, that might be easier and less problematic than depending on any of the possible pregnancy mods. Especially since BF pregnancy takes too much time to go all the way through it.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Where i disagree is that vanilla tasks are that much different from clicking through. With DA and Defeat, i can't die. So any (vanilly) fight tasks are just as well only click through tasks, but without any dialogue which makes them just less exciting than rape. 

Defeat mods are there so you have slavery as a punishment for death. They make death LESS trivial, because it's not just reload and retry, you have to deal with some consequences.

 

If you play female slaver, then fighting isn't a click through, because if you get enslaved, that's a big bump in your career trajectory. There are consequences.

 

But if you play enslaved to start with, you may as well take those mods out, they are doing the reverse of what they're supposed to. Being enslaved is a non-event if you are a professional slave.

 

If you consider what I wrote without looking to find a problem, you'll see that I didn't specify what the punishment tasks might look like. I did discuss punishments for slaves, at another time, for other purposes, but some people said they were too punishing, and there was a lot of crying about getting lost in the woods in a blindfold or somesuch, which I never even suggested.

 

So, Naz's suggestions for punishments are interesting ideas, but how would they actually be implemented?

What sequence of things do you actually DO to be a breeding sow for orcs (and how to do it without undermining the logic behind a Slaverun quest that centers around that exact topic)? 

I'm not saying it can't work, but how would you (Naz) fix the problems there? And what would be the core activity?

 

 

Anyway, if you feel that Skyrim combat is "just a clickthrough" (and I disagree there), it's hard to imagine what "not a clickthrough" would look like. So please explain if you can. Why would the scenarios presented by more about player skill, choice, and agency, strategy and tactics? How would they satisfy better than valid alternatives?

[Lupine00]

22 hours ago, jfraser said:

You could share the armor... ^ ^

I just dumped it into the esp for a quest mod I was working on, and when you asked I thought, NM, I'll make it again, but better, with a devious version you can lock, and choices of armor value... Because I just picked vanilla steel to match what I was wearing as a newbie slaver, that won't scale.

 

And so I got well into that, when my CK exploded like a balloon bursting in a box of confetti, and I spent the rest of the day cleaning up my MO, so my different setups can't possibly cross-contaminate. I was using the same DD and DCL amongst a few different configs, but that isn't too smart if you change them, obviously.

[Nazzzgul666]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Anyway, if you feel that Skyrim combat is "just a clickthrough" (and I disagree there), it's hard to imagine what "not a clickthrough" would look like. So please explain if you can. Why would the scenarios presented by more about player skill, choice, and agency, strategy and tactics? How would they satisfy better than valid alternatives?

What does (modded) Skyrim make not a click through: dialogues, choices, consequences. Story with at least the appearence of choices.

What's not a click through otherwise: beeing able to lose without just ending the game at least immediatly... that's why i don't like hack&slay like diablo or shooters in general. Aside from dialogue driven games, i like strategy & tactics because you can make mistakes without ending the game immediatly, like X-COM or C&C. But i don't see that for Skyrim, even with combat overhauls.

 

For breeding sow... not sure what you mean by undermining logic a Slaverun quest, i think it actually would fit just nice. If you're refering to the "you would be dead soon" in the orc stronghold... it would have to be after that quest of course. 

From there it's easy, you make it to give birth to one baby but hardly survive. Not entirely sure how to do the details, Kenjoka has a habit to fit my taste very well, but what i had in mind was

-obviously get fucked a lot

-prove useful with cooking & stuff or lose some body parts (not necessarily a real option ;))

-tied to some furnitures during night (which offers more options like the son, horse,... fucks you even more) Or just NPCs playing with you.

-at some point be very visibly pregnant, fade to black (or just a pop up [...after {time} the kicking in your belly becomes urgent, you lay down and...] play birth animation. To a horse for fun effect, otherwise maybe a line like "This baby has the eyes of [NPC that is not chief], using fuck slaves /non-orcs as breeding sows was a bad idea. See if Pike would want her back to get some of our money back."

[Gimlord]

Sorry to ask again but is this working for you guyz?
if you are a slave and doing a slave carriage travel there is a change for a short trip or the long hardcore trip (probability can be configured in MCM)

[galgat]

On 1/12/2018 at 6:01 PM, Gimlord said:

Hello again, i believe i some issues.
The first is the - if you are a slave and doing a slave carriage travel there is a change for a short trip or the long hardcore trip (probability can be configured in MCM)
Even when i have this value at 100 i get first raped by the horse, and then a fast travel. Don't know how it was supposed to work, but i believe it doesn't work as intended.

  I set that to 100%, and on my Carriage ride, I had to hump like 14 dog's, and a bunch of horses, and that only on the second trip, I went back to and old save, after that, and set the percentage back.. Not that it wasn't kind of different to be used like a slot machine, but I was, and am still trying to get to the Colosseum.., so I figured with like 2 or 3 more Carriage drivers to meet, I might never get there..LOL  ( I actually used the cheat after reloading the old save )

 

   Oh! It was the carriage ride where they want Slaves to service the customers, also.

[Gimlord]

14 minutes ago, galgat said:

  I set that to 100%, and on my Carriage ride, I had to hump like 14 dog's, and a bunch of horses, and that only on the second trip, I went back to and old save, after that, and set the percentage back.. Not that it wasn't kind of different to be used like a slot machine, but I was, and am still trying to get to the Colosseum.., so I figured with like 2 or 3 more Carriage drivers to meet, I might never get there..LOL  ( I actually used the cheat after reloading the old save )

 

   Oh! It was the carriage ride where they want Slaves to service the customers, also.

I guess you need to reach a quest first, i just reached it and i guess there is the scene you just said.
Thanks for the answer man.

[LesboIsBesto]

Does this mod conflict with any of the other big slavery mods like SD+ or Maria Eden for example?

[Nazzzgul666]

ME conflicts with pretty much everything.

 

*edit:

Some requests that have nothing to do with more quests:

It happens quite often that comments are hidden, either because sexlab starts or people get close during a scene and make their own comments, especially in Dragonsreach. A little timeout between comment and sexlab starting would be great, for people passing through... maybe the door could be locked during scenes to stop guards and NPCs from slave girls? I guess that would be easier than editing their behaviour.

 

All the NPCs in the Dungeon gave me some troubles with beeing female (and potentially every other mod using cloak spells), it's not this mods fault but since many of them are only eye candy anyways... an option to disable them would be nice, or maybe seperate cells with a door.

 

*edit2: Oh yes, some other things o forgot.

If the new arena doesn't already work that way, enable mutliple fights in a row without the whole "strip, get knocked out" procedure?

 

For the sake of diversity maybe replace some (few, not all) 5-somes with 4-somes?

 

And appearently Slaverun doesn't use sexlab strip options, would that be possible?

 

[galgat]

5 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

And appearently Slaverun doesn't use sexlab strip options, would that be possible?

 

 

   I think your right, however the standard sex call's, when they occur, seem to obey sexlab clothing choices, but it appears that nothing that is scene oriented does.

 

I have no problem with this, but

 

It would be nice if all scenes used the sexlab clothing choices, I guess, but I think quite often the scene plays, and removing all clothing seems to be its standard event.

 

  This is not something I would want to bother Kenjoka with, he is doing so darn much, LOL.  Really wonderful stuff, and I truly enjoy that he takes into consideration that many of us, do not enjoy Snuff, or amputation.

 

   He seems to work so hard to allow us all to create our own personal slavery fantasy, from mine which is rather tame, to all out Hard core Horrible..

 

   That I think is really wonderful, in a mod like this.

[fred200]

Galgat you are not alone. Amputations always get disabled in my playthrus also.

[galgat]

1. I got the floating grass glitch, after completing the Colosseum, when I was taking the Idiot,  and the slave architect, to tell Pike it was done, in the Whiterun Hall where Pike is at.

 

2. I fixed of course with the console "tg" leave area, and save game, and delete all possible save games with this glitch, so is no big deal.

 

  Also I do have the fixes in my Skyrim.INI, and My skyrimEditer.ini

 

3. But I thought it might be worth mentioning, as you could just lift the offending structure above the grass, possible appearance, for a possible fix.  How ever It may never happen again, I Just thought you might want to know.

 

 

[Rogwar002]

On 14.1.2018 at 1:53 AM, Lupine00 said:

With SexLab, Skyrim 32-bit is creaking and groaning

Wuahaha.... nice one... think not itentional

But still I know what you mean. It´s a balance act of having the right amount of mods without having a nice view on your desktop every now and than...

You fix a problem with mod one and for sure the 2nd one is giving you hell.

You update one of your mods in the list and the next playthrough is not only miles but weeks away.

For me, yesterday was the 7th startover after just changing to slaverun, because of game issues. Most of them because of my inexperience, but still annoying.

Ok ok... The merged esp is the last one and in position 198... but still every startover I learn many things. And slaverun is alpha and actually running like a charm. Yes, there are some things not working, but hey... it´s a work in progress... If Kenjoka would be part of a developer team, woah... think about all the stuff that would be possible... Give time and things will be great.

And I´m only a consumer of this great stuff. I´m glad to understand what I´ve read in some areas of the source code... I would sure never be able to bring only one character to do what I want in the game.... not enterily true... but you get my point.

 

Ideas are good and I think very welcome. And the work done from Kenjoka is.... wow!

[Lupine00]

19 hours ago, galgat said:

 

3. But I thought it might be worth mentioning, as you could just lift the offending structure above the grass, possible appearance, for a possible fix.  How ever It may never happen again, I Just thought you might want to know.

How high do you have to be to set your interior low-point to avoid this glitch?

Does the glitch always occur at a particular height?

 

I don't know much about this bug. Saw it once in Dragonsreach, hall was full of shrubs. Backed up saves until it wasn't happening, re-saved, that seemed to fix it.

What causes it? Do you have any links to discussion of it?

 

[Nymra]

I just noticed that the first amputation scene where Ivana gets her arms removed plays kinda weird in 3.0.

 

Pike shouts loud for Farengar, but instead of Farengar appearing suddenly Ivana has no arms anymore. Nothing else happens.

 

I do not remember if this was the same in 2.X, tho.

 

 

I also dont know if this is caused by the new Slaverun Version 3.0, but somehow my PC is no longer pushed away when whipped but remains stationary. 

Very nice if this was solved in Slaverun. Cant tell, tho, because I switched a lot of mods in for the testing.