Slaverun Reloaded (03-June-2018)

[Crw0]

Spoiler

 

48 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

That's the key there. Conan grows up as a slave and gladiator. He doesn't know any other way. Not so he can remember properly. He's indoctrinated as a child. We can suspend disbelief.

 

It's harder to believe that the adult Dragonborn, who is quite ... feisty ... and understands power, as an adult understands it, will willingly serve the slavers, when there is so much dialogue where she questions it.

 

There are two obstacles to overcome here:

1) creating a character arc for the Dragonborn, without dictating to the player too much about who that character is.

2) "selling" the idea of the Dragonborn's Stockholm syndrome, in a story sense.

 

With (1), it takes care and delicacy.

 

The player will immediately disconnect at the point you have the character do something at odds with their own idea of what the character is.

 

This is why the PC's dialogue is so bland in the vanilla game. Short, to the point statements, or simple questions don't define the Dragonborn's character, leaving the player to imagine whatever suits them. Ideally, the PC's responses are ambiguous, or leave room for interpretation.

 

 

An equivalent in Slaverun is the ritualised question and response sequence between Pike and the PC that initiates a new quest sequence. This says nothing about the Dragonborn's real feelings or opinions. Maybe she really needs Pike to whip and beat her so she can cum. Maybe she hates him and wants him to die. The player knows this is what she has to say to Pike, and if she doesn't there will be consequences, so she says it. And we get our next quest, and everyone is happy.

 

 

But when the PC has to discuss her feelings about freedom with Ivana, its dangerous territory. Particularly, when it's not clear if they can be overheard.

 

Personally, I'd indicate early in the story that "masters are always listening", and have no dialogue between the slaves that isn't potentially overheard by Pike or one of his cronies.

 

While this would mean a few lines would need to change, it would give a clear context to those conversations, that would help the player infer meaning.

 

We'd now know that if Ivana says something like:

Ivana: (Weeping) "I'm so glad the masters taught us that, deep down, all women yearn for a master. I was so empty before. So lost. The masters have made me so grateful."

We would know immediately that she is lying, to avoid a beating. We are no longer unsure whether it's a private conversation, an honest thought, or simply all she dares to say, so its easy for the player to read between the lines (in this case might not even need the ham-fisted "weeping" tag.) The excessive expositionary nature of it gives it away immediately. Nobody would ever say that, except to be overheard - except because they daren't speak the truth.

 

And because we now know Pike is listening, even if indirectly, we know that anything the PC says, is also for his benefit, and may not be true. This stops her dialogue accidentally defining her character in a way that contradict's the player's personal idea of it.

 

So when we have an exchange list:

Ivana: "Do you still hope to be free one day?"

Dragonslut: (glances sideways) "No. How could you even ask? The masters have made me free to be what I really am, an anal addicted painslut. Without them, I could never have done that."

We know there are facts there (the PC is, on the face of it, an anal addicted painslut), but we don't know if the PC is simply lying for Pike, or really means it, but either way, she is speaking for his benefit, not for Ivana.

 

 

As for (2), this can clearly be fixed by addition of new additional dialogue. While we are told some things about the Dragonslut's state of mind, and we see some things happen, we aren't shown in any clear way how she might need the slavers, how she might depend or rely on them.

 

Compare this to The Companions, who are basically a creepy cult, who all call each other "family" (like cult members do). Every line the Companions feed you is how they've got your back, how trustworthy they all are, how they are a family, a safe place to be, and a secretive pseudo-religion.

 

Pike too, is running a religion. He talks like it's all business, but a lot of what he does is bad business, and...

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I think later on, this is justified. We see several things driving Pike, and money is only one of them.

But we don't get so much of that "drank the coolaid" vibe from the Dragonborn, or the other slaves - mostly they whine and complain.

 

 

Reasons not to leave aren't quite enough to "sell" this to the player in a believable way, it needs reasons to stay. The emphasis is pivotal.

 

 

If we have both solid practical reasons why the PC cannot run (not won't run, but cannot run), and obvious character reasons why she wants to stay (and that's very different from not leaving). As the jargon goes, we need both internal and external reasons.

 

If we believed the PC is totally broken by the slavers, that's an internal reason, but it's so hard to sell, and it's not a positive internal reason, it's a negative one, so may not sit well with some players.

 

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We get a positive character reason to stay when the abolitionist movement is introduced, but it would be nice to have something before that point.

Ivana seems supposed to be that reason, but doesn't quite manage it.

 

It's convoluted, but...

 

What if, in the pre-quest, the PC actually manages to save several slaves. AND...

Ivana isn't taken until a bit later, and comes with the PC as a follower, from the start...

And so she knows about the slaves that were saved, and are now hiding out in the bandit cave...

 

And Ivana says something like:

"I know I can rely on you <PC NAME>. But if you ran away without me, I couldn't stand it. I don't know what I'd do. Left alone like that, I might do or say almost anything."

 

She doesn't come out and say it, but there's a threat there - and even if Pike is listening, he might not catch on to it, because he has been told those slaves died.

While this example casts Ivana as a piece of shit from the start, the fact is only confirmed later, so not really a problem?

 

If this were coupled with some kind of maguffin, for example a cursed collar that will kill the wearer if not recharged by its controller on a regular basis, then the PC has bother character, and practical reasons to stay, and do Pike's bidding, even before we get into whether the PC is broken by Pike or not.

 

While Kenjoka feels it should be about the PC being broken, and he gets the first say, and the final say in this, I'd argue it's better to let the player decide that for themselves as much as possible. And I suspect he agrees, because he allowed you to choose submissive or rebellious answers to questions. (There's a caveat to this, but ... later).

 

I think it would take a bunch of changes, to create a scenario where we can believe the PC wants to stay with the slavers, even if if the player is picking all the submissive dialogs.

As this post is so huge, I'll continue pontificating on that in another post.

 

 

 Now this is straight to the point. This is really cool. Ain't your writing a book, or smt?

[Lupine00]

How could Slaverun sell the idea of the Dragonborn being "broken" by the slavers?

 

It's a question you only ask if you don't think it was already sold. 

 

First off though, Slaverun is great at how many choices there are. You can play rebellious, or not, play a slaver, or not, and apparently, coming soon, even play an abolitionist from the start.

 

But let's assume you are playing a slave, and you took the submissive path, or took the rebellious path, but wonder if you should leave it.

 

What events would "sell" convincingly the mental breakdown of a character as resilient as the Dragonborn (and how might they come back from that?)

 

We could presume the Dragonborn is not resilient, but ... boring ... nothing to talk about  there.

 

What do cults do to indoctrinate people?

• They give lonely people friends, or at least companionship.
• They keep you busy and don't give you time to think.
• They keep you exhausted and wear down your resistance and willpower.
• They isolate you from anyone outside the cult.
• They may try and marry you into the cult, then make your children cultists, so you'll stay for them.
• They never let you out of their sight, without somebody there to spy and report on you - and you are expected to spy and report on others in return.
• They continually howl about how awful anyone who deserts them is.
• They talk about how deserters will be punished, either mystically, or directly on Earth, or both ways.
• They may well go out of their way to actively punish deserters, and make sure that members are involved - so they know what they'll get if they try to leave.
• They reward the most loyal, unquestioning and fanatical.
• This last covers a lot of stuff, there are lots of possible rewards.

 

 

Well... Plenty of easy equivalences with the slavers, and they already do quite a few of these things, particularly when it comes to leaving, and there's the "slave sister" concept to try and hook you in. That works a bit better in real life because in real life the sisters work to influence each other, but in Slaverun you can't influence Ivana at all. But what if you could? That would change things a lot.

 

 

What's missing from Slaverun Slave Training:

 

• Isolation.
• Spying and reporting on each other (this would fit so naturally, but isn't done).
• Severe punishments for not spying and reporting on each other.
• More rewards for being good.

 

While the initial slave training is quite impactful, and surely is exhausting, draining the willpower and resistance of the victim, it lacks a feeling of duration. Because it happens as a few really huge sessions, there's no feeling of time passing. The location undercuts it too. Outside, at the city gate? It's hardly the ideal training location. How long can you possibly be standing out there? When does Bellamy sleep? (Never it seems).

 

The location is set there, so we can have the walk of shame later. Can't have that walk if we didn't start outside the gate. OK, can't change that.

 

The initial (pre-walk) training is too much, has too much impact, goes on too long, and robs the impact of later training.

Why not take some of the content from the initial training out, and put it later, after the walk? So there's more of a build-up, rather than everything-bam!

I'm not sure which bits are candidates to push back, but I'm sure there is stuff. Time-wise, probably two thirds of it could be moved to after the walk.

 

This makes the timing of the walk better. The player is less familiar with what's going on, and so the walk itself is more intense, yet completely unchanged.

 

Post Walk Slave Training

 

By moving content from before the walk, into the main slave training sequence, and by adding some small amount of new stuff, it's feasible to make the "proper" slave training, a more serious business.

 

Instead of putting the training in a couple of really long scenes, break it up, to extend the impression of time passing.

 

The multiple (shorter) sessions, would have enforced rests between, where the PC is caged and has to sleep, or wait, to progress to the next scene.

Finally, a good spot for cages, where they make sense! Later on, can use a cell in the dungeon instead, as long as it's locked when you're forced to rest.

 

The idea is to create the impression of time passing, of the Dragonborn being tortured and indoctrinated over weeks in the dungeon, not hours or days.

It also takes away control over place, because the trainee is locked up, with only Ivana for company.

While Ivana might get some extra (optional) dialogue here to build her character, she should probably just go to sleep.

 

Over time, the player should associate the dungeon with horrors. Currently, the most shocking parts of the game are all outside the city gates. A pity, because it's such a good dungeon already, full of dark promise.

 

Removing hope:

• Offer apparent chances to escape. They are all traps set by the masters.
• If the PC tries to run, she is always caught very quickly.
• Ivana runs, is caught quickly, and the PC punished for not reporting her.
• The PC is then set up to try and escape again, and Ivana reports on her.
• The PC then has a chance to report on Ivana, if she doesn't, it's rebellious, if she does, it's submissive. (Choice).

 

Anal training could happen here, or be moved to after devices. I think it's better to have after devices, but probably easier to have it here.

Anal training, if here, should be done with short scenes and forced caged sleep/wait. Ivana should be a liability as usual.

 

At the end of basic (and possibly anal) training, do first certification, and determine she'll be a sex slave.

 

Second Training Step - Device Training

After basic training, the PC isn't simply allowed to run off and do tasks.

 

Device training should follow basic training right away, and be obligatory.

It should introduce more devices than currently, which seems oriented to old Zap models and not the MASSIVE range of modern DD4.

 

The Dragonborn should be told that a sex slave is NEVER out of devices, and she will wear them full time for the rest of her life.

It's probably a lie, but it sounds cool, and might fool some new players.

 

 

Again, break up device training into smaller pieces, with forced sleep/waits in a locked cage or cell between them.

Device training, like basic training, is done with lovely slave sister Ivana. The vile bitch uses every chance to throw you under the bus as usual.

 

After introductory device training, the PC is put in full devices, including mittens, cuffs, and blindfold.

Using cuffs and mittens instead of armbinder or yoke allows a lot more animations to work. She should also be put in one of those DD gags that forces complete silence, and told she has to earn its removal.

 

You can bet the PC will really want out of that gag. It's as bad as a blindfold in its own way.

 

 

For all the following quests, the PC goes with Ivana, as a follower/minder/spy. She reports any rebellious actions to Pike. She isn't blindfold, but she does have a ring gag. Pike only removes it so she can tell him about everything you did wrong. You get punished for these crimes (not her), because she reported them, and that reverses the slave-sister rule (obviously, right?)

 

She will also act up herself, and if the PC doesn't report her, Ivana confesses later under torture, dropping the PC in the shit for not reporting her.

It is certainly easiest for the PC to betray her here, but that's also the submissive path. Rebellious path, you stay quiet and suffer.

 

Device Training Fetch Quests: 

The PC has to fetch certain objects for her masters while blindfold and heavily deviced.

The PC is belted and plugged for this. Full belt, full chastity. No rapes! I know it sounds mad, but a break from rapes is needed sometimes.

 

All tasks are all within Slaverun, to collect, and give to the master, special quest items, that wait in containers, or lying around.

Hard to pick up with mittens, but not impossible. Easier without that blindfold though. Ha ha. How the masters laugh at your misfortune.

Yes, you have to fetch items while blindfold. They tell you where they are, in words! It's supposed to break the trainee's will, to grind down hope and condition you to obey any request, no matter how stupid.

Ivana can "help", but is told only to make sure you don't go too far wrong. She can't pick anything up, they put her in an armbinder.

In terms of mechanics, she will warn you with grunts if you get near the gate, or mumffs within about 256 units of a target item, and that's all the help you can expect from her.

As you can't talk, it really has to be stuff you can pick up.

 

The mod needs to be smart. If the player is in a hobble dress and boots, the location shouldn't be further away than Belethor's shop.

Maybe each item you collect, a movement inhibiting device comes off, so you can walk faster and range further over the city, but blindfold and gag stay.

 

(I have run in full Little Bondage Adventure hobble dress, boots, armbinder, blindfold, etc from Winterhold to Riften on multiple occasions, so it can't be that hard. In such situations you tend to die to trolls, but that's not a problem within Whiterun's walls).

 

After doing the required number of item fetch quests, the silencer gag is finally downgraded to a ring gag, and you can do talking quests.

At this point, the player should feel a sense of achievement that they can finally talk again.

Each item you find triggers a caged sleep/wait cycle. (Use repetitive tasks counter for how many you must do?)

 

Any severe speed modifier devices should be removed at this point. Leg cuffs with chain aren't severe.

 

The PC (still blindfolded) gets some basic run-around and dialogue quests, routine deliveries city or nearby farms, for example, where the poor player has to endure the gag dialog nonsense for all the conversations. It's set up so you have to talk to three of four people in an area, in turn, before having to shuffle to a new location. Makes the player slug through more gag games. The objective is to make them want to get that gag off.

Again, cage scenes and sleep/waits cycles are forced between each quest.

 

Finally, after two or three of these quests, the blindfold is removed! Leg chains/crippling boots may be removed at this point too, replaced with some basic restrictive boots (with only a minor speed penalty).

 

By now, the player should really appreciate not being deviced to all hell.

 

 

Animal Training

 

Here is where to slot the animal training. After devices. It's pretty advanced stuff, right? You'd at least want to have mastered being chained up before learning how to give a horse a blow-job. In fact, could add some really nasty boots for this part, as you don't have to walk anywhere (but don't want to restrict animations available).

Remaining devices only come off during training sessions, go back on after, and you're sent to your cage/cell after each stage.

Make the player think those devices might never come off!

 

Post Animal Training

 

Once animal training done, any speed limiting devices come off, and the player should regain full use of their hands.

Collar, piercings, gloves, and non-binding cuffs should remain.

 

PC is now able to travel further for some basic quests, and has to chat less. The emphasis is more like the existing repeated quests.

Only after this is device training fully complete, and the gag removed. From here on, it's back on track as in the original. Except...

 

Curfew

 

Initially, after completing training, the PC is under curfew.

They can only do quests between 6am and 9pm. If they come back any later they get punished (see below).

They spend the night hours locked in a cage, as before, and can sleep/rest them.

Clearly, they can't go too far from Slaverun or they'll overrun.

 

Perhaps funny to set a quest that forces them to be late, so they are unfairly punished (and make this obvious).

Even better if they're late because of the devices from previous punishment.

 

See below for notes on punishment points and contrition tasks.

 

The PC only earns initial release from curfew once they move on to quests that take them beyond Riverwood.

Possibly, even Falkreath, as there's no problem getting there and back in "daylight", though you don't have a lot of time to spare once you're there.

 

 

Training Dungeon Changes

 

Lock the back of the slave dungeon, and don't let the player see in there until later in the training sequence. This keeps some suspense about what is in there (build some anticipation). Do device and animal training only in the front section.

 

Put the super-deep dunking cage in the back of the slave dungeon!

 

Could probably fit the small waterwheel in there too, against the back wall.

 

Put the dry well-pit inside a cell in the back of the slave dungeon.

 

Call it "the hole" and make the player sleep in it instead of a cage if they've been really bad.

Could use the "floor prison" grille as an enable/disable roof, so even flying succubi can safely be locked in there.

 

If the hole is not roofed, perhaps sometimes a skeever comes in. Rape may ensue, or just biting. (Make sure armbinder combat is on, just in case).

 

The 3P camera is terrible for both wells, so use sparingly 

 

 

What are punishment points?

 

They what the mod uses internally to count punishment severity due to the player.

 

The player never knows about them. They just get punished, and aren't told how much punishment they have stacked, just get devices removed or added, punishment scenes, or told they have curfew. Adds tension. Hopefully.

 

(Sorry, need to post this now, will finish later).

Punishment points equal devices or curfew, one to one, and beyond full-set and 7 nights curfew, each one is a punishment scene, or elevates a curfew night to a hole night. (One hole night = 3 regular curfew nights).

 

For example, failing to make your weekly report in time, might earn one point per day late.

Spoiler

 

Letting Ava get away (even though you didn't), might earn easily twenty or more - depending on how many pieces are in your "full bondage set" - at least a full-set, plus seven days curfew, plus additional hole, wheel, sessions, etc.

Getting the Blackbriar brush-off in Riften might earn you three or four.

 

 

Sometimes a routine quest fails! You get random punishment points. Contrition quests shouldn't fail, but if the quest is being done to advance to a city enslavement, then it can fail, randomly, and unfairly, for no good reason, and you get punished. Keeps the player just a unsure, and means you're put in devices from time to time.

 

How do they map to punishments:

 

For each point not processed, determine randomly whether it adds a device, earns a whipping, or a night of curfew.

If after checking all the points, the player has more than three nights of curfew, each three curfew points become a night in the hole.

 

If the player reaches a full set of devices, after that instead of devices, they earn (randomly) a night in the hole, a well dunking, or a session on the wheel (if present). There is a limit to seven nights in the hole, three dunkings and two two wheel sessions. Beyond that, the points are discarded, or maybe used to trigger some special scenario.

 

 

What are contrition tasks?

 

They are tasks like the existing "repetitive tasks", in fact they may be those exact same tasks, plus the item fetching ones added for the new training quests.

Yes, I know there'a already an item fetching quest, which is a bit clunky if you get it at night, because it sounds like you're on the clock. The curfew system, and all nights spend in cage/cell mean that problem will never arise.

 

To be clear, in this "design", if the PC has no punishment points, and has cleared slave training completely, they won't be in devices, or have any curfew, they are free to run about at will, as currently.

 

Device Management

 

The devices the player is (supposed) to be in are always tracked and counted. If the player isn't in them, they are punished, one point per wrong/missing device.

 

Currently, you can easily get rid of all devices by asking for removal. This is vital in some cases, e.g. Fight Club is bugged and doesn't remove them. Other times you might need to remove them due to some scene that put them on and forgot about them.

 

This won't happen in future, because they're tracked, and re-synched on a regular basis.

Basically, the nudity enforcer checks devices match expectation, every so often, and if you're missing devices, or have wrong devices in slots that should have devices (but not extra devices in slots expected empty), then you get pulled up and sent for punishment, one point per wrong device.

 

For this reason, a tricky player can remove devices away from slave territory, if they are able. All power to them.

They better remember to put them back on though - no magical "nudity reminder" auto-strip tickbox for that. What a pity.

 

Any slaver should have a dialog to remove devices on request, but only after checking your tracked status.

If you are missing devices, you will get punishment points and instructions to go to the dungeon.

They won't remove anything you are supposed to be wearing.

If you have any devices beyond a collar (no funny quest collars allowed), you cannot go to Fight Club.

Bellamy will not let you go, because you have been bad, and can't be trusted.

 

When devices are added by punishment...

Using the "progressive bondage" rules, apply one device for each punishment point.

When the PC completes a contrition task, they get to remove a device.

Contrition tasks always available if wearing devices.

 

 

Some quests add a device set, of varying type. These devices get registered as if you'd earned them as punishment.

If the quest removes them, then they are de-registered, otherwise tough, you have to get rid of them through contrition.

 

By design, the player is allowed to cheat devices. If they are caught, any keys are removed, and they are punished. Basically, the player is checked by the nudity enforcer code to ensure their devices are present. If no enforcer checks, they're fine to take their devices off with keys they got somehow.

 

 

If the player asks a slave master for extra devices, the added devices are registered and must be removed through contrition.

However, a reward point is added to a reward bank for each device beyond the third that you volunteer for.

e.g.

You are wearing two devices, ask Bellamy for a corset and a gag, you are in four devices, and one point is added to your reward bank.

You then ask for an armbinder. You earn another reward bank point.

 

You can bank up to six reward points max. These are used to negate incoming punishment points you earn. If you appear not to earn any points due to banked rewards, you don't get punished at all, just a talking too about how you should know better, and probably after that you get raped, but that always happens when you stand still for more than five seconds in a slave town.

 

Optional idea: you can talk to Titus to add your reward to another slave as punishments, and you get to pick the punishment, so you can get Ivana whipped, or put in the hole, dunked in a well, or drowned on the wheel. She loves it, and you know she'd do the same for you.

 

Perhaps the reward points can buy other treats too. Kisses from Bellamy, or a nice anal rape from a horse?

As a succubus, nothing is better than a nice five-way, maybe you could buy those?

[jfraser]

I like all of that except the blindfold. It would make no sense to send a blinded person out to find things. They wouldn't even be able to make it out of the city, say nothing of returning

[Content Consumer]

25 minutes ago, jfraser said:

It would make no sense to send a blinded person out to find things.

I dunno, it's funny in a schadenfreude kind of way.

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, jfraser said:

I like all of that except the blindfold. It would make no sense to send a blinded person out to find things. They wouldn't even be able to make it out of the city, say nothing of returning

True. Though in practice, the default DD4 blindfold is pretty tame.

 

In my head, most of the quests would be within the city walls, and I didn't say "find", the items would be easy to locate for anyone not wearing a blindfold.

 

It's more like "Get me a gourd from Battleborn Farm!"

And you'll have your delightful slave sister with you, to make sure you don't go far wrong. No blindfold for her, just a really effective gag

(Still can still grunt a bit).

 

I've updated my main post A LOT, so please re-check. When I reviewed it, I saw I said you don't do the blind pickups outside, only the chatty quests after the gag is removed. It was my intention that they would all be close to the city, in safe patrolled areas. The actual post says this better now, so probably read it there. I thought about speed, and how slow it was to get anywhere hobbled, booted and crippled by apropos debuffs from a variety of exotic animal rapes.

 

One reason I suggest moving animal training until after devices, so you don't have that huge variable of "is apropos present, and how is it configured". On hardcore, apropos speed debuffs are severe, and they multiply unpleasantly with devices. Never mind inflation, we need a framework for speed debuffs.

 

Excuses aside, I think there are a bunch of things in there that would help balance the early parts of the main quest, draw the maximum impact and value out of what's there now, and provide an ongoing framework for punishment that would make the player feel some peril without being overly annoying or game-breaking.

[Nazzzgul666]

7 hours ago, Kenjoka said:

and the bad news is, that probably a first alpha version will come the next days...

 

Another idea to give me some more time before i have to play v3

Currently on the mission to enslave the last family member of Ivana, so what i thought to be another "nice to have" is... you've already been in Markarth and did slavery stuff although it's still forbidden there. Imho a great chance to get another quest. What i had in mind was

-forcegreet by a guard, some dialogue about you beeing a slave and working for slavers.

-possibly some interrogation part

-possibly some "tell/show me/us what you can do", talking about training you received.

- task(s) to do. Many options here, what i have in mind right now would be 1-2 wild trolls outside the city gates that need to be calmed down.

I would avoid the Cidhna mine, though, except there is a way to get in&out without touching the vanilla quest. Nevertheless, some "do that or..." and consequences for saying no would be nice.

 

I don't really care that much about the reporting in. Currently i've disabled it, it becomes quite repetitive... and i'm totally fine with the option to en/disable it whenever i want. I don't like the "pay gold" that much because for my role play it doesn't make much sense, both for reporting and paying Pike. My slave is weak and doesn't have any weapons, so dungeons are not an option to earn money. Did some prostitution, but doing it in whiterun doesn't make much sense since you don't have much to offer. Maybe for females... or travel to unenslaved cities, but honestly that wasn't that exciting that i'd keep doing it the whole time.

What i could imagine would be some tasks like "calm the trolls" mentioned above in citiies without slavery, that would be great. Or be rented to a giants camp or falmers, things like that. Could be optional tasks instead of "give me money". Maybe with estrus Chaurus as optional mod, kind of breeding slave for the falmers.

[jfraser]

Too bad S.L.U.T.S. never got finished. That would make a logical tie in. But I like the "rented out" idea.

[Nazzzgul666]

VirginMarie implemented a cart-ponygirl in her Shout like a Virgin mod, and since she's incredibly good at making bug-free releases i assume her version works better than S.L.U.T.S. Since it's part of her quests a simple soft depency wouldn't work, but if Kenjoka is intrested maybe she can provide the cart, or at least some advice how to do it. 

Ofc only avaivable after you've completed the pony girl training i requested earlier. And then jealous carriage drivers ambush you.  

[Lupine00]

59 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I don't really care that much about the reporting in. Currently i've disabled it, it becomes quite repetitive... and i'm totally fine with the option to en/disable it whenever i want. I don't like the "pay gold" that much because for my role play it doesn't make much sense, both for reporting and paying Pike. My slave is weak and doesn't have any weapons, so dungeons are not an option to earn money. Did some prostitution, but doing it in whiterun doesn't make much sense since you don't have much to offer. Maybe for females... or travel to unenslaved cities, but honestly that wasn't that exciting that i'd keep doing it the whole time.

What i could imagine would be some tasks like "calm the trolls" mentioned above in citiies without slavery, that would be great. Or be rented to a giants camp or falmers, things like that. Could be optional tasks instead of "give me money". Maybe with estrus Chaurus as optional mod, kind of breeding slave for the falmers.

 

Great points. The reporting is pretty low on my radar too. I only mentioned it because I like something to drag me back to Slaverun periodically. I wouldn't mind it, if I could hit a hotkey to see time remaining, as it certainly isn't in the current version (but is already fixed in 3, so I got my wish).

 

Secondly, I was surprised about how the failure to report is implemented.

 

But your thoughts on dumping it entirely are good. I think it's an SD+ mindset thing, and maybe that mechanic is silly in SD+ too.

 

But a reason for prostitution isn't a bad thing, just Slaverun doesn't implement prostitution itself, so you end up with an unaware mod enabling it in the Bannered Mare.

Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't. Personally, I'm for it, but not as much as I'd like to see devices as punishments, or cage scenes, or the dunking cage, or that crazy waterwheel (the mini one seems even meaner than the big one).

 

Different people, different wants.

 

Also, Interactive Torture Framework could be great. Just needs more actor anims for the torturers. I had it on, and an NPC in quest I'm working on just started messing with me while I was testing some furniture placements. I'd forgotten it was installed. Hilarious.

[Nymra]

Can I read somewhere about the new contents of 3.0 version?! Seems everybody knows but I somehow dont see a link or something?

 

Thx

[jfraser]

One thing I suggested long ago on the original version of SR is that the first thing that should happen to the player is to be chained or caged and just left for like two days so they are starving and dying of thirst. This simple deprivation would be all that was needed to get people to the first step in submitting. No matter how stubborn a person is, the survival instinct is so strong that 99% would willingly bend the knee for water.

 

Edit: this wouldn't have to be a "bored just watching my character starve" thing. You can allow waiting or just do a cinematic fade to black, make time go by with some code (so needs mods would know time has passed) then fade back in with a messagebox.

[Nymra]

2 minutes ago, jfraser said:

One thing I suggested long ago on the original version of SR is that the first thing that should happen to the player is to be chained or caged and just left for like two days so they are starving and dying if thirst. This simple deprivation would be all that was needed to get people to the first step in submitting. No matter how stubborn a person is, the survival instinct is so strong that 99% would willingly bend the knee.

Maria Eden does stuff like that. Like chaining or caging the player over night or similar.

 

In fact, I think Maria Eden would be the perfect match for Slaverun, if both could be somehow merged. Maria Eden is not working well with any other mod, tho, sadly.

But it has a lot of details and "NPC" behaviours that I miss dearly in Slaverun. In ME you have scenes for beeing inspected, chained up, for licking your masters feet, for beeing pissed at... you get put into a device or furniture for whipping (not the same kneeling pose all the time) and so on. 

[ChaoSoul]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

 

If this were coupled with some kind of maguffin, for example a cursed collar that will kill the wearer if not recharged by a master on a regular basis, then the PC has both internal character, and external practical reasons to stay and do Pike's bidding, even before we get into whether the PC is broken by Pike or not.

 

About the collar. It would be an amazing addition actually.

Edit: I meant to say that I personally loved all your ideas, just wanted to focus on that one... but I got distracted and now looking at it I started to think I might have came out like a douche... 

Story-wise and additional-content-wise it could be rechargeable by having sex, and the slavers could choose which kind of sex act should count till they change it again. Anal, vaginal, oral, animals if already an animal-slut, whipping if a pain-slut, maybe if you angered them it can only be recharged with male piss for a while? Imagine trying to run away for some time back to not enslaved cities for a while only to have to ask people to fuck you or worse. 

 

And even if you manage to keep your collar fed you would surely get noticed by everyone. Maybe the slavers hear rumors about a woman who always looks for someone to fuck her and seems to be wearing a collar? Maybe a man decides to bring you in back to Pike to get a reward? Maybe a woman wants to do it 'cause you must have slept with her husband or something (Pike could actually reward her in a not so kind way)... 

Additionally after the carriage drivers start to work for Pike if you start talking to them they should instantly recognize you and forcefully take you back on a carriage whore scenario ending with you passing out and waking up in the dungeon. Same for the Khajiit's later on.

 

Such a collar would surely force the player to do as she is told or get her back from trying to live a normal adventurer's life somewhere outside of the slavery laws. 

 

 

Going back to the topic about Savus Aren and Winterhold... I'm glad to hear that is dealt with. Is it v3 though? I don't remember this option in the menu, but I have a slightly older version that's for sure... I've been playing the sub slave slaverun questline for half a year I believe...

 

However I still have some ideas for the Thieves Guild narrative compatibility (I don't actually know if there is a line of dialogue or sth as I haven't yet played slaverun after thieves guild. Your mod is amazing but really long and last month I have finished enslaving Skyrim for the very first time...)

Spoiler

The dream is to have an additional quest which triggers when you first get sent to Riften or even slightly before that where you try to use your contacts to escape and it's even achieved or you go through a lot of humiliation and either your Nightingale and Guild Master status are taken away or used by Pike to further his goals.

(But if it isn't something you'd like to do Kenjoka, just the help in escaping option if you finished rebuilding the guild (city influence quests) or a quick humiliation and being thrown out if you didn't would work wonders to make it so that NPC's acknowledge who you are... or who you were)

 

1. Escape Option:

Brynjolf (or whowever else): Guild Master! We've heard what happened! I'm so glad you managed to get away!

You were instrumental in saving the guild, became a nightingale, brought the guild all the gold of Skyrim! And you were quite rebellious up until now...

The guild will do anything for their guild master and will gladly get you out of the predicaments Pike got you in. They find a way to get rid of your collar (the one suggested by Lupine), or help you with the slight levels of skooma addiction you could have gotten (my suggestion from yesterday). 

 

2. Humiliation: 

Brynjolf or whoever else: You! You think we haven't heard?! You've made us a laughing stock!

Though you did save the guild and became a nightingale you didn't yet return it to it's glory or you have been very submissive. They are angry like hell 'cause people all over skyrim don't want to do any business with the Guild controlled by a slave. You may plead them, you may tell them yo were only acting to survive it, Brynjolf will now know that he made a bad decision entrusting you with the guild and he won't listen to pleads of mercy. PC will suffer a lot taken to the Flagon and humiliated, raped and forced to acknowledge that she is no longer a nightingale nor a thieves guild leader.

 

That's all of the basic scenarios.

 

Additionally if you want to build up on all of this:

 

3. Enslaved Again:

 

Now that you are free you can use your influence to take down Pikes organization, talk with Maven about making a new organization, or end up a slave again (Pike wouldn't be pleased with the fact you managed to escape him before).

If you stay free and do nothing about the slaverun, it would be cool if there were signs that some of the training has stayed within you and you either act slutty around the other thieves or maybe drink some skooma on your own and though they want to help and at the beginning may see it as a great thing (now their boss is not only strong but also fucks like a champ and rewards them in very special ways) with time they could start seeing PC as a weak whore and decide that they don't need such a guild master, returning you to Pike in their anger.

 

4. A Use For A Thieving Slave:

Brynjolf: And bring your Master this letter, slut! If you don't we'll make you pay for it!

Instead of just being sent back on the street after the humiliation scenario now PC is ordered to bring a letter from Brynjolf to Pike. It says that Brynjolf would like to work with Pike and he is sure that with a proper training PC could still prove useful ensuring that the Guild has a strong foothold in Skyrim.

As you approach him Pike will be angry to hear that you tried to do something on your own, and be sure that you were trying to escape. More heavy punishment and PC is forced to acknowledge that the position of guild master is a part of the former life. But as she hangs from the ceiling, left in the dungeon after the punishments Pike approaches saying that he finally read the letter and that he would gladly see Guilds money come into his hands. This leads to a new series of side quests which would be pretty much greatly modified thieves guild city quests where you have to steal and sneak a bit but also use your slave skills to ensure Guilds position humiliating PC even more (rebel) or making her fully admit to herself that this is now her only true place in the Guild. (And also additional tasks which you could do for Pike.)

 

I hope my ideas are to your liking Kenjoka.

 

 

 

[jfraser]

1 hour ago, Nymra said:

Maria Eden does stuff like that. Like chaining or caging the player over night or similar.

 

In fact, I think Maria Eden would be the perfect match for Slaverun, if both could be somehow merged. Maria Eden is not working well with any other mod, tho, sadly.

But it has a lot of details and "NPC" behaviours that I miss dearly in Slaverun. In ME you have scenes for beeing inspected, chained up, for licking your masters feet, for beeing pissed at... you get put into a device or furniture for whipping (not the same kneeling pose all the time) and so on. 

Not exactly the same thing as leaving them hanging for three days, but yes. I really love much of what ME does. The new version, whenever it finally comes out, should be much more compatible with everything since it is ditching all of the custom bindings in favour of DD/ZAZ 

[Nymra]

49 minutes ago, jfraser said:

Not exactly the same thing as leaving them hanging for three days, but yes. I really love much of what ME does. The new version, whenever it finally comes out, should be much more compatible with everything since it is ditching all of the custom bindings in favour of DD/ZAZ 

 

I tried to make different "major" BDSM mods working with each other for a long time. But even when the mod authors stay otherwise: in the end they are all just incompatible with any other major mod or a vanilla playthrough. And its mostly due to buggy behaviour or scripted events fucking it all up. Sooner or later you run into an unsolveable problem with each of them, so I decided to play save and make a profile for each mod alone. 

Fun thing: devices and bindings werent ever a problem but with Captured Dreams. 

 

 

EDIT: as for hanging there 3 days: 

Skyrim is already full of "nothing happening". Especially after trying so many mods I noticed how dead and lifeless the world really is. Slaverun is no better, apart from the ocassional forced rape of slaves. 

If there would be something like beeing 3 days in a cage, at least there should be some staged events like a slave execution or some raping of slaves every now and then.

 

For Slaverun I miss something like ongoing slave trainings of belamy when I visit them or seeing them "walking someone in shame" through the town. That doesent even happen for newly trained slaves (sadly), same with the animal sex. 

The whole Slaverun machinery should be busy with training new slaves nonstop, especially when you start bringing new slaves in. Instead, they just hang in their furniture doing nothing most of the time. 

[jfraser]

6 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

I tried to make different "major" BDSM mods working with each other for a long time. But even when the mod authors stay otherwise: in the end they are all just incompatible with any other major mod or a vanilla playthrough. And its mostly due to buggy behaviour or scripted events fucking it all up. Sooner or later you run into an unsolveable problem with each of them, so I decided to play save and make a profile for each mod alone. 

Fun thing: devices and bindings werent ever a problem but with Captured Dreams. 

 

 

EDIT: as for hanging there 3 days: 

Skyrim is already full of "nothing happening". Especially after trying so many mods I noticed how dead and lifeless the world really is. Slaverun is no better, apart from the ocassional forced rape of slaves. 

If there would be something like beeing 3 days in a cage, at least there should be some staged events like a slave execution or some raping of slaves every now and then.

 

For Slaverun I miss something like ongoing slave trainings of belamy when I visit them or seeing them "walking someone in shame" through the town. That doesent even happen for newly trained slaves (sadly), same with the animal sex. 

The whole Slaverun machinery should be busy with training new slaves nonstop, especially when you start bringing new slaves in. Instead, they just hang in their furniture doing nothing most of the time. 

well, like i said, the "nothing happening" can be quickly solved with a cinematic blackout and a messagebox popping up on the fade back in saying three days has passed and you are starving and dying of thirst. it is easy to code time passing, so Needs mods would likewise recognize the desperate state the player is in. this would be a realistic way to subdue the player, no matter how powerful she might normally be, because most people who are dying of thirst will do pretty much anything for water. the real training can begin once the slave realizes the truth that her life is literally dependent upon her new masters.

[Nymra]

4 minutes ago, jfraser said:

well, like i said, the "nothing happening" can be quickly solved with a cinematic blackout and a messagebox popping up on the fade back in saying three days has passed and you are starving and dying of thirst. it is easy to code time passing, so Needs mods would likewise recognize the desperate state the player is in. this would be a realistic way to subdue the player, no matter how powerful she might normally be, because most people who are dying of thirst will do pretty much anything for water. the real training can begin once the slave realizes the truth that her life is literally dependent upon her new masters.

well, bound in a yoke or with chains would also do quite well, even for a dragonborn. A nice gag and even your shouts are not a problem anymore. 

[MyNameIsnt]

7 hours ago, jfraser said:

I like all of that except the blindfold. It would make no sense to send a blinded person out to find things. They wouldn't even be able to make it out of the city, say nothing of returning

I agree. Everything else seems plausible for a story's sake but restricting the vision for extended periods makes things a lot less exciting as a player.

[Lupine00]

Just finished the Good Ending. Looks like I'll be ready for 3.0 alpha after all.

 

Thanks for making such a great mod. It was a wild ride.

 

 

Super huge spoiler warning. Do not read, ending discussed in detail:

Spoiler

Are you really sure you want to read details of the ending?

 

Spoiler

 

It's a little weird there at the end, not least because the being sold quest kicks off at the same time as end slavery.

I was super nervous the quests would conflict somehow and screw it all up, but they don't, it works just fine.

 

But it's possible to drag Bellamy to the secret cave, where he is a complete nuisance and just stands in the way.

 

Then when you come back, Whiterun is still enslaved, and everyone is there as normal, like nothing happened, and you can't even talk to them about it.

But a quick chat with Balgruuf later, and the entire slavery gang melt away like snow in the spring, and by the time you step out of the Dragonsreach doors, Whiterun is all back to normal, with not a trace of past slavery remaining.

 

After all those hours of play, a sudden ending like that doesn't feel right.

 

I wanted the chance to run around Skyrim to tell everyone that slavery is cancelled, and they can complain at the office if they don't like it.

Surely, the Jarls have to be convinced to change their mind, and the more stupid ones might not even care about Dremora, might be more bothered that Pike is gone, but what about Maven Blackbriar? She was selling slaves in her own right.

 

I wanted to go in the Dragonsreach dungeon and free all the slaves, turn Titus into a pile of ash, feed Fang to his dogs, and generally mayhem and orgy!

 

And as I didn't pick Slavery Will Return, I also wanted to track down Pike, and his well-dressed wife, and cast them into poverty and despair (or simply kill them, a choice would have been nice).

 

Or maybe it would be fun if Maria got a thing for the soul-swallowing Dragonborn, and she could become a follower?

 

As for beloved Bellamy... I think it's fine we never see a trance of him and his real lover, Murphy, ever again.

 

But the Twilight Zone "it's as if it never happened" ending, is a bit anticlimactic. Maybe.

 

 

 

Just one more thing...

 

In the slavery for Windhelm quest, after Bellamy dresses you up, you can ask him to remove devices, and he takes them all off again. I tried this just to see if it would happen, and it did.

 

The Jarl then refers to a gag you aren't wearing in dialogue exchange with him later. I wasn't actually expecting that.

 

 

 

So, I played the slave route, started off defiant, caved in after Ivana had her little incident with Farengar's blood magic, and then quickly maxed submissiveness and love for Bellamy.

From where I am I can go back a few saves and get the bad end of slavery.

 

What would be the best path to take in a new playthrough to maximize the amount of different stuff seen?

 

Start as a slaver? As a male?

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, 222304 said:

I agree. Everything else seems plausible for a story's sake but restricting the vision for extended periods makes things a lot less exciting as a player.

I like that impaired vision thing, in moderate doses. And the devices slave training in Slaverun is something you can easily complete in a couple of hours, it's not super-long. So really, you aren't facing "extended periods" of restricted vision.

 

Also, if these things were actually to be done, presumably there would be some options to disable stuff that might annoy some people, blindfolds being one.

 

Personally, I find the default DD4 blindfold pretty easy compared to how I typically set Leeches mode myself. If you're finding it a pain, just turn it down a bit.

 

In my current Slaverun playthrough, I avoided Immersive First Person (or the alternative camera mod, whatever it's called), and so the old-style DD blindfold works for me, with the unmodified (but movement locked) third person, and impaired first person (but mobile). This set up is great for blindfold, but sadly IFP camera mod breaks it, despite tick boxes in DD and Zap that suggest otherwise.

 

I'm pretty sure this could have been fixed, by detecting IFP explicitly, but that didn't happen, and instead DD4 defaults to Leeches all around, which makes all your sex scenes blurry and dark, unless you turn the strength down (which you can).

[MyNameIsnt]

25 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I like that impaired vision thing, in moderate doses. And the devices slave training in Slaverun is something you can easily complete in a couple of hours, it's not super-long. So really, you aren't facing "extended periods" of restricted vision.

 

Also, if these things were actually to be done, presumably there would be some options to disable stuff that might annoy some people, blindfolds being one.

 

Personally, I find the default DD4 blindfold pretty easy compared to how I typically set Leeches mode myself. If you're finding it a pain, just turn it down a bit.

 

In my current Slaverun playthrough, I avoided Immersive First Person (or the alternative camera mod, whatever it's called), and so the old-style DD blindfold works for me, with the unmodified (but movement locked) third person, and impaired first person (but mobile). This set up is great for blindfold, but sadly IFP camera mod breaks it, despite tick boxes in DD and Zap that suggest otherwise.

 

I'm pretty sure this could have been fixed, by detecting IFP explicitly, but that didn't happen, and instead DD4 defaults to Leeches all around, which makes all your sex scenes blurry and dark, unless you turn the strength down (which you can).

 

I think you're correct in it being a far less issue when you can see your character clearly in third person, but as someone that uses IFP for added immersion the constant blindfold effect eventually wears thin on me as a player.

 

It'd be nice if there were toggles for specific devices instead of an all-or-nothing option that we have now.

[jfraser]

34 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I like that impaired vision thing, in moderate doses. And the devices slave training in Slaverun is something you can easily complete in a couple of hours, it's not super-long. So really, you aren't facing "extended periods" of restricted vision.

 

Also, if these things were actually to be done, presumably there would be some options to disable stuff that might annoy some people, blindfolds being one.

 

Personally, I find the default DD4 blindfold pretty easy compared to how I typically set Leeches mode myself. If you're finding it a pain, just turn it down a bit.

 

In my current Slaverun playthrough, I avoided Immersive First Person (or the alternative camera mod, whatever it's called), and so the old-style DD blindfold works for me, with the unmodified (but movement locked) third person, and impaired first person (but mobile). This set up is great for blindfold, but sadly IFP camera mod breaks it, despite tick boxes in DD and Zap that suggest otherwise.

 

I'm pretty sure this could have been fixed, by detecting IFP explicitly, but that didn't happen, and instead DD4 defaults to Leeches all around, which makes all your sex scenes blurry and dark, unless you turn the strength down (which you can).

The use of blindfolds in general wasn't my point. It just didn't seem a logical for the story as presented.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, jfraser said:

The use of blindfolds in general wasn't my point. It just didn't seem a logical for the story as presented.

But it is logical, if anything in Slaverun can be called logical. If you read the main post (finished one, not the temporary post) I clarified the rationale, and I think it holds up as well as any Slaverun rationale.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, 222304 said:

 

I think you're correct in it being a far less issue when you can see your character clearly in third person, but as someone that uses IFP for added immersion the constant blindfold effect eventually wears thin on me as a player.

 

It'd be nice if there were toggles for specific devices instead of an all-or-nothing option that we have now.

A large mod, with a large MCM, like Slaverun can run into string limit problems, so adding options always requires consideration.

Historically, Slaverun has been fairly minimal in device support, I feel. It errs towards devices that don't unreasonably limit the available sex animations in most cases, I suspect.

 

One "trick" it could use, is to require DCL, and then read DCL's detailed flags for device option toggles, avoiding carrying any extra MCM or string weight.

[jfraser]

58 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

A large mod, with a large MCM, like Slaverun can run into string limit problems, so adding options always requires consideration.

Historically, Slaverun has been fairly minimal in device support, I feel. It errs towards devices that don't unreasonably limit the available sex animations in most cases, I suspect.

 

One "trick" it could use, is to require DCL, and then read DCL's detailed flags for device option toggles, avoiding carrying any extra MCM or string weight.

oh, please no. i like aspects of DCL, but it is just too sprawling.