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A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

LordNecris

By LordNecris,
in General Discussion

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Zor2k13

Zor2k13

Posted
Posted

Waste of time to do that.

 

Better to just try and adapt at this point? make new framework mods to replace any existing framework mods that go paid only everything else is just a deviation.

Rayblue

Rayblue

Posted
Posted

I don't know if Bethesda can even claim copyright on a mod.  Software code is a process and it's pretty damned hard to claim derivative rights on a process that hasn't been invented yet.  A patent MIGHT cover that and even if it did that wouldn't cover C++ or Papyrus or whatever language it's written in, since Bethesda doesn't own those either.  The only intellectual property they might have a claim to is something that depends on their software to function, but if the code is multiplatform and has a use outside of the context of their bullshit game (such scripts for Blender/Nifscope/etc. written to make their game conform but not exclusive to their game) they would be fucked and laughed out of court.

 

Well, we do know that historically there was an attempt at creating software patents, which naturally was hotly opposed.

 

Forget government, we might try to look up to the EFF if possible.

aqqh

aqqh

Posted
Posted

It just doesn't stop when it's on a downhill roll.

 

Debacle.jpg

 

According to isoku that DMCA claim is a piece of bull****

Personally i've never heard of a mod "r000ts skyrim apocalypse".

There is apocalypse magic for skyrim but hell if i know what kind of textures could he possibly have taken from it.

Angrybird

Angrybird

Posted
Posted

Chesko's so naive man, you should go out into the world assuming everyone in a suit is trying to fuck you over not glee at the opurtinity to "work" with some megacorp.

windpl

windpl

Posted
Posted

All this argument later and I still haven't seen a real reason modders couldn't choose to ask for money. Everyone either cites community dogma of "we just shouldn't!" or avoids the question entirely.

 

Do I have to keep mentioning the whittler before someone actually stops to consider why I'm making that comparison?

 

Because every single one of them build their skills on other works, others that worked not for monies but for public bono. If they want to demand money they should fucking find a job in IT.

Erundil

Erundil

Posted
Posted

Without thinking I *feel* that donations are good and price tags are bad, when it comes to mods.
At first I couldn't for the love of Great Old Ones figure out the difference, but now I get it.

I see 2 actual differences between donating to author and paying for the mod.
First thing is you donate after thoroughly testing the mod and making sure it does what description says without breaking your game.
It's not the case when you buy a mod, since you pay up front, before you can check out what it does exactly, and how.

Second thing, which seems even more important to me is this:
When you donate to author, you pay for the author's efforts and time.
When you pay for mod, you pay for the product.
This difference is more important than it seems, because if you pay for author's efforts, there are no strings attached. You recognize the work the author has put into his mod and you pay to motivate him. When you pay for mod, you evaluate the actual product (that is mod), which means meshes, scripts, textures, and solutions of technological problems. Most of them don't belong to the person who gets the money.

Nepro

Nepro

Posted
Posted

Well chesko the creator of the Frostfall Hypothermia has been humiliated.

 

Chesko's Fishing Mod removed for requiring FINS from paid mods on Skyrim Workshop.

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/paid-for-skyrim-mod-removed-in-a-matter-of-hours/

 

 

Donations are appropriate ways of thanking the mod authors I fear monetizing the mods will destroy the modding community or I hope someone will come up with descent pirate mod website/forum.

 

 

 

aqqh

aqqh

Posted
Posted

 

All this argument later and I still haven't seen a real reason modders couldn't choose to ask for money. Everyone either cites community dogma of "we just shouldn't!" or avoids the question entirely.

 

Do I have to keep mentioning the whittler before someone actually stops to consider why I'm making that comparison?

 

Because every single one of them build their skills on other works, others that worked not for monies but for public bono. If they want to demand money they should fucking find a job in IT.

in case you dont know best source of knowledge is creationkit wiki.

 

And that logic is quite flawed anyway. It is perfectly legal to use free guides and tutorials to learn how to use some specialized software and then use what you've learned to earn money.

Erundil

Erundil

Posted
Posted

Maybe it's just my selective vision but I just see as many people claim that modders should be compensated whilst ignoring the issue. The community here has it's ear closer to the ground. This thread just proves it. 

It's not the first time someone notices that people here on LoversLab are more mature than on the mainstream forums. Well, yay for us! :P

 

 

And modders face what exactly? Something they signed up for? Something they chose to do? In the case of the modders like xilverbulet (Midas Magic) I have no sympathy because he has pulled every free version of his outdated mod and then proceeded to update his mod to get money.

Being an asshole is not okay. It is never okay. It doesn't matter what the other person did. Don't like it? Say your piece politely and/or move on. No one, and I mean no one, should ever have to put up with constant threats and abuse of any kind. Not while we pretend to be part of any sort of civilized society.

 

What author of Midas Magic has pulled of is morally unforgivable. But there are no laws about morals (unless you harm children).

Still I'd like to remind you, LoversLab users, that your avarage forums poster is nothing like people here. They can be rude, they can be mean, they can be illogical.

And they usually are. I've seen people writing very serious threats, that made me worry, even though they wasn't pointed at me. If they were, I'd start locking the door twice from now on. Some time ago I've written that I haven't seen any real threats. Now I have and it's horrible.

 

I'm not honestly surprised that this Mrs. Darkling dismisses everyone up in arms over this as children. It's way too convenient. She and her ilk are a pox on the community. This entitlement attitude doesn't fall on the users, though we can sometime act like obnoxious little shits. It's all them. If you want to get paid then just don't mod. Users should never feel obliged to owe a cent, especially if upload your stuff for the hoi polloi. Common courtesy is greatly appreciated; Donations would be cool too if the forces that be would let it happen, but nope. Gotta get Valve their money.

 

I just hope modding remains DRM free just so she can become a "professional modder".

Grace Darkling? Isn't she a girlfriend or wife of that nexus bastard Dark0ne? She definitely does sound like someone who rides his dick just as often as Dark0ne rides the dicks of Valve/Beth these days.

 

 

If you want to get paid then just don't mod.

Serious question: Why can't someone want to get paid for modding? What gives you the right to tell someone what they can and can not do to make money?

 

Because plastering price tags on mods opens the door to tons of abuses and illegal activities no one will be able to stop.

Not to mention that it completely changes the perspective in which modders see their work (and work of others).

Modding community is well established environment that have been working for years now. Introducing money to the equation is like introducing a new species to the ecosystem.

No creature was prepared for that and a lot of them will die out trying to adjust. It's irresponsible and shortsighted.

 

I've written it somewhere above, but I'll reiterate. It's all about your mindset.

When you donate to author, you pay for his time and efforts.

When a mod has a price tag, you pay for the product (scripts, meshes, textures, solutions to technological problems). Most of them don't belong to the author.

Also you donate AFTER appreciating the modder's skills and the mods stability and features.

When the mod has a price tag and you pay up front, it's a russian roulette - you pay before you can even check if the mod works and is compatible with the other mods you're using.

windpl

windpl

Posted
Posted

 

 

All this argument later and I still haven't seen a real reason modders couldn't choose to ask for money. Everyone either cites community dogma of "we just shouldn't!" or avoids the question entirely.

 

Do I have to keep mentioning the whittler before someone actually stops to consider why I'm making that comparison?

 

Because every single one of them build their skills on other works, others that worked not for monies but for public bono. If they want to demand money they should fucking find a job in IT.

in case you dont know best source of knowledge is creationkit wiki.

 

And that logic is quite flawed anyway. It is perfectly legal to use free guides and tutorials to learn how to use some specialized software and then use what you've learned to earn money.

 

 

Yes of course it is legal that you can charge someone that helped you all along. That only makes you one massive dick/cunt, but hey you will get monies.

D_ManXX2

D_ManXX2

Posted
Posted

What i feel is happening here is what Bethesda wanted for a long time. Having people to work for them for free and at the same time fixing there buggy software that should never have been released in this state anyway. Now they chose this way in the hope that modding community would destroy themselfs in the prcosess. by turning the entire community against eachother. In the last part i think they may have succeeded that part though.

 

But when the new game of there comes out i think they will be in for a rude awakening. when people finally decides not sharing there work anymore. most people will now just release there mods but possible just refuse to include source codea etc.. or find better ways of encripting there assets to prevent stealing from happening.

 

If that happening no one will be learning from others anymore.

Erundil

Erundil

Posted
Posted

Well friends, if we start getting paid per post, I'll take mine in BJs and pizza.

I want to know who's gonna perform the BJ before I say yes to that. I have my preferences :P

 

 

 

I'm not honestly surprised that this Mrs. Darkling dismisses everyone up in arms over this as children. It's way too convenient. She and her ilk are a pox on the community. This entitlement attitude doesn't fall on the users, though we can sometime act like obnoxious little shits. It's all them. If you want to get paid then just don't mod. Users should never feel obliged to owe a cent, especially if upload your stuff for the hoi polloi. Common courtesy is greatly appreciated; Donations would be cool too if the forces that be would let it happen, but nope. Gotta get Valve their money.

 

I just hope modding remains DRM free just so she can become a "professional modder".

 

 

If she actually wants to be paid as a full-time modder, she can apply for a job at Beth or EA -- there's the money, she also already has the portfolio to show for.

 

Does she now? Look at her mods. They are avarage at best.

 

All this argument later and I still haven't seen a real reason modders couldn't choose to ask for money. Everyone either cites community dogma of "we just shouldn't!" or avoids the question entirely.

 

Do I have to keep mentioning the whittler before someone actually stops to consider why I'm making that comparison?

I've already answered that. A lot of people have actually. If you don't feel like reading through 55 pages, don't insist on getting the answer (you could browse all my posts in this topic, there is not so many of them). If you don't know english well enough to understand that your answer have already been given, then what are you doing on the forums in the first place?

Rayblue

Rayblue

Posted
Posted

Does she now? Look at her mods. They are avarage at best.

 

That's why I said I never downloaded her armor -- they look fucking boring than outstanding. :lol: I prefer Hentai's Karliah armorsets or Northgirl.

Aria

Aria

Posted
Posted

What i feel is happening here is what Bethesda wanted for a long time. Having people to work for them for free and at the same time fixing there buggy software that should never have been released in this state anyway. Now they chose this way in the hope that modding community would destroy themselfs in the prcosess. by turning the entire community against eachother. In the last part i think they may have succeeded that part though.

 

But when the new game of there comes out i think they will be in for a rude awakening. when people finally decides not sharing there work anymore. most people will now just release there mods but possible just refuse to include source codea etc.. or find better ways of encripting there assets to prevent stealing from happening.

 

If that happening no one will be learning from others anymore.

 

Thats been happening for years now, but what is happening right now is that Bethesda seen the massive success of skyrim and its modding scene (or imo thanks to the modding scene) and want to cash in on that action, together with Valve.

Noone is going make me believe they did that to help the modders, its going to have exactly the oposite effect, but hey they will get their buck.

In recent years im seriously getting more and more disgusted with the practices of these corporations, but the players have also good portion to blame theselfs for buying into these practices.

Bethesda can now release buggy games and let modders fix them while cashing in and they dont have to pay anyone anything, lets just hope this isnt really going to happen or players truly deserve this bullshit.

Guest Spikes

Guest Spikes

Posted
Posted

What's unbelievable, is the 24 hour refund period. Mods can hurt your game for days even weeks before you find out which one went bad. Do you get a refund ? nope.

 

Let's say, you discover the mod you bought is bad, inside 24 hours, and report it asking for refund. How long will the revaluation take? If it takes more than 24 hours (or less depending on when you reported it), you probably WONT get a refund.

 

Now, let's say you got lucky, discovered very fast your paid mod sucks and hurts your game, you hurry and report it asking for refund and amazingly you get it. Then my friend, you will discover that instead of the money getting back to your wallet, they ended up in your STEAM wallet, where they can only be used for...yah exactly, for STEAM games/digital gods only.

 

The moment your hard earned money leave your digital pocket, they're gone for good. Truly marvelous indeed.

 

 

Btway, if more than one person got some of the 25% fee, it gets even more complicated.

 

 

 

 

 

DustyK

DustyK

Posted
Posted

After spending 3 hours reading different sources regarding this topic, and the so far effect it had on the modding community, I think I will finally stop playing Skyrim lol.

 

Major modders pulled mods/paywall(SkyUI, frostfall, wet&cold), poor quality in paid mods as investigated so far..etc. 

 

Im not actually against paid mod, i think modder deserves compensation for their work, but so far Valve's little stunt has caused an astonishing amount of damage to their reputation and Skyrim modding community.

 

Of course nothing I have said matters since im not a modder(although i have donated to some of my favorite modders in the past), but i think ill put skyrim folder in a thumb drive, before i get too depressed at the things that are going to happen in the future. 

Guest endgameaddiction

Guest endgameaddiction

Posted
Posted

Well not to rain on any potential modders parade, but after this stupid stunt by Beth and Valve, I just don't see any future for any real talented modders. (okay I lie)

 

  • you are already employed under their wings on a crappy salary. "Oh darn, but I was looking to become a real developer some day...."
  • Bethesda will just make some mediocre game as always so we can fix the broken patches and give it lifespan as we have been doing.

 

Hell after this stunt, I wouldn't doubt that Bethesda will never ever make DLCs again. They'll save money. No more new development. No more hiring professional voice actors. We have it all right here at Steam.

 

You know what? Making .75 cents an hour 100% profit sounds a whole lot better trying to make a living than .75 cents hoping in one day alone you'll atleast sell your mod once for a mere 25% cut out of it. Yikes... I bet they didn't think about that. Oh and to them. The one's who have the mods up for around that amount. Yeah, good luck trying to break the $100/$400 barrier. It's going to cost you far too many downloads. Probably to the point where just about everyone has it and you didn't hit your quota.

 

nonusnomeni

nonusnomeni

Posted
Posted

What's unbelievable, is the 24 hour refund period. Mods can hurt your game for days even weeks before you find out which one went bad. Do you get a refund ? nope.

 

Let's say, you discover the mod you bought is bad, inside 24 hours, and report it asking for refund. How long will the revaluation take? If it takes more than 24 hours (or less depending on when you reported it), you probably WONT get a refund.

 

Now, let's say you got lucky, discovered very fast your paid mod sucks and hurts your game, you hurry and report it asking for refund and amazingly you get it. Then my friend, you will discover that instead of the money getting back to your wallet, they ended up in your STEAM wallet, where they can only be used for...yah exactly, for STEAM games/digital gods only.

 

The moment your hard earned money leave your digital pocket, they're gone for good. Truly marvelous indeed.

 

 

Btway, if more than one person got some of the 25% fee, it gets even more complicated.

i bet that will be true

Coopervane

Coopervane

Posted
Posted

As a consumer of mods (and a little dabbling on the side), both free & paid, for a number of different games and genres - lets not panic just yet. Pay per mod first appeared in flight sims, and nothing drastic changed there, apart from quality going up.

 

Nothing changed?

 

Go to any website that sells 3'rd party FSX aircraft, and start browsing the wares there as if they were LL or Nexus mods. Every time you see something you like? You put it in the basket! When you're done, and you've clicked all the nice things, go have a gander at your check-out total and prepare to weep... because unless you're the most picky person ever, that total is going to be worth hundreds of dollars. Call me crazy, but i'd considder that a change.

 

 

 

This is the big picture that these guys refuse to see. They look only at their own little prepackaged mod and say: Hey guise, it's just a buck, it's less than a sandwitch, you can afford that!

 

 

Yeah, i could afford that, but here's the thing: Your little mod?

 

post-92146-0-05329100-1430051310_thumb.jpg

 

Is going to be sandwitched in between alllll of these guys:

 

post-92146-0-16946700-1430051325_thumb.jpg

 

And they are all going to have a pricetag attached to them aswell. No mate, i can't bloody well afford that, and chances are that you can't either..

 

 

This train won't completely derail with Skyrim, but come FO4? TESVI? All the other games that will join this bandwagon? I hope you have one hell of a slushfund, because you're gonna need it, and in the end, we'll be in the same situation as the F2P market where all this stuff only gets bought and played by 5 to 10 percent of the market, the so called Whales.

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