A little warning to mod creators of non adult mods....

[Yami X]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And modders face what exactly? Something they signed up for? Something they chose to do? In the case of the modders like xilverbulet (Midas Magic) I have no sympathy because he has pulled every free version of his outdated mod and then proceeded to update his mod to get money.

Being an asshole is not okay. It is never okay. It doesn't matter what the other person did. Don't like it? Say your piece politely and/or move on. No one, and I mean no one, should ever have to put up with constant threats and abuse of any kind. Not while we pretend to be part of any sort of civilized society.

 

There are times when you have to be an asshole being nice all the time gets you nowhere I mean just look around.There's a reason Valve and Bethesda feel they can just pull these type of stunts.

 

The reason that Valve and Bethesda feel they can charge for mods is because they can. People will buy them. It's already happening. Is has nothing to do with people being nice.

 

 

Why do I keep running into these types today? If you truly feel that way then there's nothing left to say.

 

 

What types?
 

 

Not you again........

 

 

No, I mean It's an honest question. I literally just walked into this thread.

 

For all you know, I might agree with you once I get my bearings on what people are talking about. I don't see why you would start making this into some personal rivalry when I just happen to post in a thread you are in.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know what you're right forgive my rudeness my basic point is this

 

When I hear things like because they can or it's the end of free modding to me that sounds like people are enabling such foolishness to become an reality or a situation that's unwinnable. When I hear things like this I think that person doesn't understand the power of the consumer even if the vast majority of people are indeed idiots that doesn't mean you as an individual should just let it happen and even if it does succeed it's still not the end where there's will there's a way.

 

 

As of right now Rockstar is 100% is against modding yet the community still exist and is still growing.

 

 

So with that said the reason I no longer wanted to have this discussion because I was convinced I'm was not changing that persons mind so what the point it might have been rude of me but I've been arguing all day and just didn't wanna go through it again I hope this makes sense.

[pornphile]

 

 

I think it is Jexsam that brought up the whittler analogy. Yes, the whittler has every right to sell his figures. However, the whittler gets to choose where he sells his wares. If I were to make a Skyrim mod, am I allowed to sell it on Amazon?

No, you are using someone else's IP.

Yes, if you have a Skyrim IP license.

 

Selling through the Workshop avoids having to get a license.

 

I would argue that if I produce content that adds value to the game I should sell it where I please. Why should IP stop me? Both Valve and Steam made their money once I bought the game and it's DLC. If it is just because it's the law, does that make it right?

 

Do what you will. I won't philosophize the moral arbiters of right/wrong.

[Zor2k13]

@badbat1111

 

The police do not protect and serve the people, they protect and serve the city council. So if they are told to start collecting taxes they will do it no questions asked.

 

Quotas are something they have to do every month in order to keep their job, even new police officers that just started will be fired if they don't meet quotas.

 

If martial law were declared across an entire country though I think most police would stick together and only protect and serve their families and themselves. They would rob the public in order to survive while the city council flew to the bahamas on a private jet.

 

When rome began to decline one of the dumbest things their "senators" did was to take away the roman soldiers pensions. When they did that, the soldiers that didn't like it started sacking the very cities they were supposed to be protecting to get their pension money back.

[sora3]

Honestly, I'm having a hard time believing a lot of the comments here. Those that complain and bitch about mod authors should be f*cked over, that's the kind of attitude that doesn't help the community. Not mentioning names, you know who you are.

 

We should be finding a solution that works on both fronts, not being f*cktards that you are.

 

/rant

 

With that out of the way, if Valve implemented something like the Humble Bundle where you can choose the percentage of how much each party gets, would that be better? I'm trying to start a rationale discussion instead of flinging shit like some people are.

[Hayleyrose2323]

Honestly, I'm having a hard time believing a lot of the comments here. Those that complain and bitch about mod authors should be f*cked over, that's the kind of attitude that doesn't help the community. Not mentioning names, you know who you are.

 

We should be finding a solution that works on both fronts, not being f*cktards that you are.

 

/rant

 

With that out of the way, if Valve implemented something like the Humble Bundle where you can choose the percentage of how much each party gets, would that be better? I'm trying to start a rationale discussion instead of flinging shit like some people are.

 

Meeeh.. All they need is a donation button, take away the paywall and life will go back to normal all will be happy, and we can go chase butterflies...damn things mocking me, HA YOU CANT FLY YOUR A HUMAN.

 

Seriously though...

[Yami X]

Rational discussion for you went out the window the moment you came in here calling people fucktards just saying bro some people are understandably angry understand that.

 

 

[Zor2k13]

Something that just occured to me, credit card theft will find a use with getting mods for free because of how it is tracked. I think I remember reading that fraudulently charging a few bucks will not set off and kind of lock down and refund process so people could get stolen card numbers and use them on steam to get mods not even asking for refunds they just download and run away. Go through a bunch of card numbers and not trigger anything until maybe a few people notice and complain? Then valve will be stuck trying to figure out all the fraud transactions and get in trouble with card companies. I am thinking this kind of thing happens with other games like wow dota2 and so on? All the fees the card companies will make from this though, all the fees they will charge valve and the fees they charge their card holders even though the holders didn't do it. I think sometimes the credit card ceo's are just sitting around with smiles on their faces thinking about this mess.

[sora3]

@Yami, not really. That discussion went out the door much earlier in the post. If you don't believe me, check the earlier posts and you'll find that. Here, I'm trying to be rational but people aren't which is the frustrating thing.

 

@hayley, nice reply since I don't care much about your 'maturity'.

 

@ zor2k13,  that is very worrying too. If a mod is compromised with a virus, then it is a big disaster.

[Rayblue]

Something that just occured to me, credit card theft will find a use with getting mods for free because of how it is tracked. I think I remember reading that fraudulently charging a few bucks will not set off and kind of lock down and refund process so people could get stolen card numbers and use them on steam to get mods not even asking for refunds they just download and run away. Go through a bunch of card numbers and not trigger anything until maybe a few people notice and complain? Then valve will be stuck trying to figure out all the fraud transactions and get in trouble with card companies. I am thinking this kind of thing happens with other games like wow dota2 and so on? All the fees the card companies will make from this though, all the fees they will charge valve and the fees they charge their card holders even though the holders didn't do it. I think sometimes the credit card ceo's are just sitting around with smiles on their faces thinking about this mess.

 

Not only that, given that the system uses some sort of a tax verification before putting mods on sale, someone would try to come up with fake IDs.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a rogue party with shittons of stolen credit card numbers, tax identification and social security numbers would use the system to launder millions or implant malicious stuff in dummy mods or just about anything to make more money out of people's misery.

[Hayleyrose2323]

@Yami, not really. That discussion went out the door much earlier in the post. If you don't believe me, check the earlier posts and you'll find that. Here, I'm trying to be rational but people aren't which is the frustrating thing.

 

@hayley, nice reply since I don't care much about your 'maturity'.

 

@ zor2k13,  that is very worrying too. If a mod is compromised with a virus, then it is a big disaster.

 

Eh someones got to be immature and goofy in these hard and dark times. Because if not. Well. We get people like you. Or that other guy, and that other guy..and that other guy...and that...wow this place is getting depressing.

[Yami X]

May 2 2014

 

but the perfect reaction to what is happening now lol.

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq87efgyRuU

 

[Zor2k13]

I am thinking the stolen card for mod thing would be pirates from russia and china first but the problem with going the other way and taking money from steam system I don't see how they can do it since steam has everything converted to their disney dollars bs. Of course if someoine decided to post mods that somehow passed verification and got away with it a lot and when I say a lot I mean they got a few thousand bucks out of it before valve caught them, then it could get really ugly for valve.

[Zor2k13]

LOL!!!!!

 

That video totally spells it out! That is how I have been feeling just take all the dam bugfesta crap and dump it! dam I want to just delete that mods folder so bad! I am still on the fence about a lot of things. Trying to scrape up enough enthusiasm to finish what I was doing with an edit to an oblivion mod lol that video is exactly how I feel I wish I could go stand in front of bugfesta and valve people with about hundred thousand other people and do the same thing, take off some silly skyrim costume and say the same thing at the same time then just leave them standing there as we all left our crappy costumes on the floor for them to pick up and dispose of.

[Youwish1]

May 2 2014

 

but the perfect reaction to what is happening now lol.

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq87efgyRuU

 

I wish joe would come out and talk about this because he is actually very close to bethesda . I know he said some things on twitter but that's not really enough to reach out to the world.

[ZaZ]

Again , I will repeat what I said before it got lost somewhere .

There are people who are genuinely not so well off and do make money off content creation,( I know I do it too , just not with Beth Games .... )

There are also people who probably don't give a damn and all they see is money .

The first Kind of people I kinda support , especially from poorer countries or just not so well off cause every cent counts . People don't know the situation for the involved  creators and you don't have the right to threaten them

 

I can empathize with a few modders who want to be paid for their work, but I don't support the current system of whats currently going on , but I can certainly understand why they would do it  

People Keep talking donations and stuff , but how many donations you think mod authors recieve even when they have a donation setup ?

 

At the start , I myself thought "OH look a way to earn some cash , could use it  add some change for a PC part or two " but after seeing the reaction of the modding community , most modders would be afraid to put their content even for FREE on the SW

 

Does the Modding community needs to talk about it  Yes .... 

 

This is what ticks me off " figure of Speech or not " what I saw in a top rated comment

 

In due time, Modders will also be substituted: From being enthusiastic fans who want to introduce new content to the games, to being money hungry prostitutes from poor countries who want a quick buck selling tasteless re-skins. These new modders will whore themselves out to corporate interests in exchange for a meager 25%. Yet again publishers win and WE lose. 

 

 

[afa]

Split of the community isn't really a big enough issue to cause this to fall back.

There are modder who wants to make money from this, well who can blame them?

Even if only part of them jump on board there's technically no "lost" in terms of money, since there was never (much...) money in the modding community to begin with.

Of course they are going to give this a try.

 

Rather if everything will falls flat on its face is something we just have to wait a few months/year and see.

[Rayblue]

Having a DMCA right in front of one's face is worse than death.

[Ceit]

 

 

 

I am also warning everybody that you better back up your Skyrim files because Steam can change the exe file with an update and fuck everything up for you.  I think this is also a possibility in the near future.

 

 

Already did that since the last official update (of the .exe and not the CK), made a full backup to a spare drive, knowing that at anytime hard drives can get fucked up without warning.

 

---------

 

Goddamn, Gabe's responses definitely show just how out of reality he is, that he thought money, not passion, should help improve modding.

 

It isn't. Just look how payware fucked up something like The Sims 3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am also warning everybody that you better back up your Skyrim files because Steam can change the exe file with an update and fuck everything up for you.  I think this is also a possibility in the near future.

 

 

Already did that since the last official update (of the .exe and not the CK), made a full backup to a spare drive, knowing that at anytime hard drives can get fucked up without warning.

 

 

i always run steam in offline mode they cant update if there no net connection when i launch there exe

 

 

 

@luminar

 

That is exactly what I was talking about earlier a few pages back or was it another thread lol this stuff is heating up.

 

Or you can modify the main skyrim exe file to get rid of steam altogether ;D

[nIn nIn nIn]

As a consumer of mods (and a little dabbling on the side), both free & paid, for a number of different games and genres - lets not panic just yet. Pay per mod first appeared in flight sims, and nothing drastic changed there, apart from quality going up. Pay mods have recently started in the Sim racing genre, with the same doom saying as here, but the only result has been a few better quality mods. There has been no detrimental effects yet, and it's been 2 years now.

 

So, with this genre lets just wait and see. TES & FO are more mainstream than the flight & racing sim genres, but that doesn't necessarily mean the sky is going to fall down because Valve & Bethesda want to make a little more cash for as little effort as possible. Wait, observe, decide what to do if and when anything changes with the next generation of games.

 

There really is no point getting all worked up over it, have a beer, go fishing.

[Rayblue]

First off, those sims are also bought by people who have set up full-on systems with flight sticks, HOTAS, MFDs, multiple wrap-around monitors, and custom cabinets. So they pay premium directly to the vendor, and that there's nothing in the Flight Simulator X EULA that prohibits them from selling or buying add-ons or setting up markets for this purpose.

 

Of course, the culture there is different than ours, in that they deal with money and bloody detail while we rely on rep and trust; this comm was okay for years without any money involved, and generally it's the rare asswipe who asks for money.

 

It took a careless thought of a single man to nearly bring down this comm after 48 hours.

[AlberichMX]

The sad thing of all this is the damage made to the community. Sad days... really sad days. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myKYT_95frs

[pantherlux]

do what you want, cause a pirate is free... no wait, let's not follow this way

one thing really seems to clear out... we are pissed and afraid of loosing the freedom to mod in the end and the mods itself (that's what i see at this moment)

but if we stick together,  even with the nexus guys, we might be able to get that "donate me" button instead of a "pay now!"

 

*waiting for crucifixion now*

[bob11]

As a consumer of mods (and a little dabbling on the side), both free & paid, for a number of different games and genres - lets not panic just yet. Pay per mod first appeared in flight sims, and nothing drastic changed there, apart from quality going up. Pay mods have recently started in the Sim racing genre, with the same doom saying as here, but the only result has been a few better quality mods. There has been no detrimental effects yet, and it's been 2 years now.

 

So, with this genre lets just wait and see. TES & FO are more mainstream than the flight & racing sim genres, but that doesn't necessarily mean the sky is going to fall down because Valve & Bethesda want to make a little more cash for as little effort as possible. Wait, observe, decide what to do if and when anything changes with the next generation of games.

 

There really is no point getting all worked up over it, have a beer, go fishing.

 

And then, there were Sims mods. That went well....

 

You don't seem to realize that

1) If money is involved, Bethsoft can exercise their legal rights as license owner of both the game and the toolkit to take down any mod that uses their assets or is made with their toolkit unless it's on the workshop.  They can pull the plug on anything.

 

2) A great many mods are a collaboration effort.  Who's going to get paid?  If asset licenses start getting revoked because the other modders are dissatisfied with their cut or just don't want a part in this, many mods will fall apart.  Help and assets were mostly freely given because the mods themselves were freely given.

 

2b) On that, based on Chesko's example, once a mod goes in Valve as a paid mod, it stays in Valve.  And if someone has way too many objections about that, see 1.

 

3) Some mods are too popular.  If SkyUI decides to drop the free version one day and stick to paid only, any mod with MCM will get screwed.  There will be mods made with the newer versions, probably also behind a paywall, and mods that will be getting outdated.

 

4) Valve can't curate the mods (damn, they can't even curate their store).  There are already modders hiding their mods because of fear that they'll be stolen and uploaded to the workshop as paid mods.  It can easily be a thing on Steam at its current state.

 

5) DLC game fragmentation was bad enough, if a mod micro-transaction becomes the norm and gets implemented into other games, take a wild guess at what's going to happen.  Gabe's admitted thatn even WITH the shistorm, the skyrim workshop yielded 10k, which of course he dismissed as being way too little to label Valve as greedy (failing to mention how much Valve WILL make when the paid workshop goes Steam-wide).

 

Not sure why people fail to see the big picture.  You need to stop looking at your finger.

[nIn nIn nIn]

I don't have any argument with what you are writing, just saying it is too early yet for the sky to be falling. 

 

 

As a consumer of mods (and a little dabbling on the side), both free & paid, for a number of different games and genres - lets not panic just yet. Pay per mod first appeared in flight sims, and nothing drastic changed there, apart from quality going up. Pay mods have recently started in the Sim racing genre, with the same doom saying as here, but the only result has been a few better quality mods. There has been no detrimental effects yet, and it's been 2 years now.

 

So, with this genre lets just wait and see. TES & FO are more mainstream than the flight & racing sim genres, but that doesn't necessarily mean the sky is going to fall down because Valve & Bethesda want to make a little more cash for as little effort as possible. Wait, observe, decide what to do if and when anything changes with the next generation of games.

 

There really is no point getting all worked up over it, have a beer, go fishing.

 

And then, there were Sims mods. That went well....

 

You don't seem to realize that

1) If money is involved, Bethsoft can exercise their legal rights as license owner of both the game and the toolkit to take down any mod that uses their assets or is made with their toolkit unless it's on the workshop.  They can pull the plug on anything.

 

2) A great many mods are a collaboration effort.  Who's going to get paid?  If asset licenses start getting revoked because the other modders are dissatisfied with their cut or just don't want a part in this, many mods will fall apart.  Help and assets were mostly freely given because the mods themselves were freely given.

 

2b) On that, based on Chesko's example, once a mod goes in Valve as a paid mod, it stays in Valve.  And if someone has way too many objections about that, see 1.

 

3) Some mods are too popular.  If SkyUI decides to drop the free version one day and stick to paid only, any mod with MCM will get screwed.  There will be mods made with the newer versions, probably also behind a paywall, and mods that will be getting outdated.

 

4) Valve can't curate the mods (damn, they can't even curate their store).  There are already modders hiding their mods because of fear that they'll be stolen and uploaded to the workshop as paid mods.  It can easily be a thing on Steam at its current state.

 

5) DLC game fragmentation was bad enough, if a mod micro-transaction becomes the norm and gets implemented into other games, take a wild guess at what's going to happen.  Gabe's admitted thatn even WITH the shistorm, the skyrim workshop yielded 10k, which of course he dismissed as being way too little to label Valve as greedy (failing to mention how much Valve WILL make when the paid workshop goes Steam-wide).

 

Not sure why people fail to see the big picture.  You need to stop looking at your finger.

 

 

[afa]

All of that is still just push pull dynamic between mods, modders, and valve.

They either work it out or leave the workshop alone. Modders won't stick around if they get burn too many times. If Valve want to keep pursuing this they will need to do something to appeal to the modders if that should happen.