Hannarh Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 They've had all this time to produce an idea like this and it comes out in 2015, okaaaaaaay.
Deboch Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Looks like this is very close to being a moot argument. Currently there are 36 paid mods "under review." http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=72850&browsesort=forsale_pendingapproval&requiredflags[0]=paiditems&browsefilter=forsale_pendingapproval&p=1&actualsort=forsale_pendingapproval Sadly though, I hope the rift that has formed between some great modders and the vocal but minority entitlement crowd is not so great that said modders go away for good. Already some great modders resources have been hidden on nexus. The past 24 hours has been a troubling day for all persons involved.
doctorMe Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Does anyone have a link to chesko mod so I can download it? LOL
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Just to lighten the mood, something I stumbled upon.
guk Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Just to lighten the mood, something I stumbled upon. Thanks i almost swallowed my morning cigarette earlier today while watching this
Darth Omix Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 This whole thing is a shitfest and should never have been done. It sounds like dirty dealings by Bethesda, through Valve, that fucks over everyone in their path.
luffyboy Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Honestly, there is nothing wrong with modders wanting to go into an agreement with game developers to monetize their mood. The only reason mods have not been on sale previously was because of the contentious issue of using assets owned by others (which has changed with the new steam agreement barring custom assets made from users). It would be great if mod developers keep open the option of having their mods for free but if they do so that is just a privilage that we should be grateful for instead of considering it as a right. Defintiely the steam business model is extremely flawed as they are levarging their position as the middle man to earn more than they deserved from the shared contribution of modders and game developers, this is even after considering the front page advertisments and marketing they might provide to mod developers.However, to assume that mods should be free based on the reasoning that mods have been free for the last 15 years is circular reasoning. To believe that you should only be paid for your work after going to a university and getting a degree irregardless of whether the product is good or bad has no rational cause. Please explain how monetizing a mod project would disincentivse the mod author from making a better product? Or reduce the innovation of the modding community as a whole? (I am actually really interested in trying to see the other side's point of view in a objective and rational manner and this is not meant to be sacarstic)
doctorMe Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Hey, did Chesko have any plan on hosting his fishing mod? Or did he delete out because of the backlash?
spoonsinger Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Looks like Chesko had a change of heart. http://pllqt.it/rJYQ6M have you considered his reasons to do so? how does he feell now? Atm i wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that he decided to quit modding. I imagine he feels humbled, gob-smacked. He thought Valve would empower him, but all they really care about is money and control. I hope he regains his footing and shakes this off. His mods are good. Not really fair on Chesko, (but I assume he/she is older than 12 so should have known). Yep Valve/Beth are/were seeing an opportunity which is probably the 'future'. Their mistake is that it wasn't tied from the start because it's a three year old game. But then who could have foreseen that - well other than the people who actually play games and use mods. But then you arn't talking about people who actually care about such things. They are publishers - look at the music industry for standards. I suspect they won't make the same mistake on the next game, which is a shame. (actually a crying shame). (ps If 'they' want to go down this route, I'd actually like to claim back some time from Beth. i.e. 1000+ hours actually trying to get the game to actually be playable, (with 99.9% other modders input - all free I think), from my point of view. Yes that makes no sense, in the same way that a closed modding system does. But it is a nuclear option) (pps Modders of various weights and sizes I thank you. You can't actually buy anything from that, but if I could I'd send you a kitten).
azerty852 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 If we lose one or two modders it's not the end of the world. We must do anything we can to defend our passion. It is only a matter of time before Valve start thinking that scripted or big mods are too problematic because of angry customers unable to read the description. What will happen then is really simple. Do you enjoy $5 hats or $10 bikinis ? The next Elder scrolls will be so bad. I would prefer eating the disk than install it.
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Honestly, there is nothing wrong with modders wanting to go into an agreement with game developers to monetize their mood. The only reason mods have not been on sale previously was because of the contentious issue of using assets owned by others (which has changed with the new steam agreement barring custom assets made from users). It would be great if mod developers keep open the option of having their mods for free but if they do so that is just a privilage that we should be grateful for instead of considering it as a right. Defintiely the steam business model is extremely flawed as they are levarging their position as the middle man to earn more than they deserved from the shared contribution of modders and game developers, this is even after considering the front page advertisments and marketing they might provide to mod developers. However, to assume that mods should be free based on the reasoning that mods have been free for the last 15 years is circular reasoning. To believe that you should only be paid for your work after going to a university and getting a degree irregardless of whether the product is good or bad has no rational cause. Please explain how monetizing a mod project would disincentivse the mod author from making a better product? Or reduce the innovation of the modding community as a whole? (I am actually really interested in trying to see the other side's point of view in a objective and rational manner and this is not meant to be sacarstic) For one the case with Chesko and his mod being removed from the workshop because it required Fore's assets and FNIS. Steam gave Chesko the okay to upload the mod without asking Fore if he was okay with it, it was a terrible judgement call. Now in order for the mod to work, Chesko will have to find his own way to implement animations into Skyrim. The problem lies with mods having to rely on each other. We need SKSE for script extending; TeS5Edit, WryeBash, BOSS, LOOT, and various tools to clean mods. So having to re-invent the wheel because you no longer have rights to those assets can lead to a drop in quality and possible mod conflicts. I support mod authors getting the respect they deserve, but steams program is not a good incentive as it locks out a lot of crucial tools and assets a modder has to work with.
doctorMe Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Can someone make another version of animated fishing? LOL
pinky6225 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 :D http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65034/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D65034%26preview%3D&pUp=1 This adds a very basic new NPC to the game. She is a beggar. Her name is Beth, and all she does is sit around outside Whiterun waiting for you to give her some money. She actually seems to be pretty well-off already, based on her expensive clothes and jewelry, but rain or shine you can find her out there begging for more money with a smile on her face. Regardless of her situation, she will accept every coin you feel like throwing her way. The only requirement for this mod is that you bought The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim brilliant
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Can someone make another version of animated fishing? LOL It'll take time. You probably wont be seeing the version that was uploaded to steam any time soon, if not, ever.
White Divinity Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Nothing can really be done about it, if a modder want to sell their mode they totally have the right to do so.. but at the same time, this will allow modders that don't want to charge for their mods to gain tons of money via donations, they might even gain more than a modder that's selling his mode in steam, because now there's a more reason to do so, nexus is already working on this... plus, modders only gaining 25% out of this is ripoff, 50% would've been better...
doctorMe Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Can someone make another version of animated fishing? LOL It'll take time. You probably wont be seeing the version that was uploaded to steam any time soon, if not, ever. What makes you think so?
ambria Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I see a lot of people saying they would rather donate than have a paywall. I wonder if people had been generous with donations to begin with, if a lot of modders would have still felt a need to put up a pay wall I mean if you were already making good cash, would you then turn to steam for nickle and dimes?
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Can someone make another version of animated fishing? LOL It'll take time. You probably wont be seeing the version that was uploaded to steam any time soon, if not, ever. What makes you think so? Lat paragraph, opening post. Also making a mod takes time. http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/
doctorMe Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Can someone make another version of animated fishing? LOL It'll take time. You probably wont be seeing the version that was uploaded to steam any time soon, if not, ever. What makes you think so? Lat paragraph, opening post. Also making a mod takes time. http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/ Real-time update - I was just contacted by Valve's lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless "legally compelled to do so", and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in Arissa 2.0's case, it's black and white; that's 100% mine and Griefmyst's work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable. ?
cornbreadtm Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I see a lot of people saying they would rather donate than have a paywall. I wonder if people had been generous with donations to begin with, if a lot of modders would have still felt a need to put up a pay wall I mean if you were already making good cash, would you then turn to steam for nickle and dimes? You can donate after you know a mod is good, instead of before you know it's crap. It's a big difference.
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 It seems steam might have rights to the content sold, so re-uploading a free version elsewhere may be just as risky. Like I said, anytime soon, if not, ever.
Kimy Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 The issue should not be about whether mods have value but on how authors can be compensated without poisoning the well. The fact is that Nexus donation scheme has not worked otherwise you wouldn't have modders jumping ship for a measly 25%. Maybe you can explain why the modders should receive any money at all? The mere idea about allowing even donations brought this upon us. Anyone who wants to earn money with video games, go and get a proper education in that field and apply to a gaming studio. This is all about making tons of cash for Bethesda and Valve without them lifting a single finger. They have produced the game? Well done, Skyrim has probably earned back all the investments within the first week. We have paid THEM the money for a game that nobody would care about without mods. All those additional sales over the years were solely due to the mods, so it should be Bethesda paying the modders - not the users who have actually contributed SOMETHING to the mods in one way or another. Even worse that the game is in fact unplayable without unofficial patches, and it also doesn't look like a game that was released in 2011 in any way. There are games from ~2005-2010 with much better graphics than vanilla Skyrim. Alone bringing money into the highly productive and innovative modding scene has destroyed it within less than 24 hours. See also the drama like Chesko now also removing his mods from Nexus in an attempt to play the victim. I don't disagree with what you said after the first line, but the notion that modders have no right to wish to get compensated for their work to begin with and that modders are just a bunch of amateurs who have no (as you call that) "proper education" that would allow them even to ask for donations is a little insulting, to be honest. First, modding is game development. Plain and easy. There is no difference. A modder doesn't do -anything- else than a Bethesda designer would do. We use the same tools, the same programming language, and the same methods they do. No, I didn't design the tools or the assets I am working with, but neither did the level designer at Bethesda. Any large scale development project is team work and building upon each other's work is the absolute norm. Next, I have talked to a number of modders both here and elsewhere, and trust me, most of us do in fact have a "proper education". Chances are that if you're talking to a modder, you're talking to a professional developer or professional 3D artist or designer, you name it. Guess what, most random Joes and Janes wouldn't be able to hack thousands of lines of code into an editor with any hope for it to work. Or just go ahead and design an armour model in Blender from scratch that doesn't look horrible. It's a skill that takes practice and experience. About the "just go work in the gaming industry if you want to earn money" thing - I can't speak for anyone else here, but if you wonder why I am personally not working in the gaming industry: Because the industry is flat out is not a great place to work in. The pay absolutely stinks compared to what you earn anywhere else in development and the hours they work there are borderline inhuman. I (obviously) love making games. But I'd rather do it for free and decide what I make and when I make it rather than coding somebody else's ideas for a sucky $35k salary and a 80-90 hour week. In the end, the differentiation between "modders" and "developers having 'proper' education" you make here just reeks of entitlement. I mod because I want to. I publish my work for free because I want to. It's a choice I made, because I believe in free/open software. Please do not confuse this choice with you being entitled to it. You're not. Just for the record, other than your post's opening line which I really object to, we're on the same side. I want the paid mods Workshop model to go away just as much as you do. Because it's just not well thought out. That and them taking 75% of the share is just insulting (I think a 25/25/50 split between Steam/Valve and modder would have been fairer maybe). As I said above, I think the most sensible way to do that would have been a "pay what you think it's worth" system. It's the best of both worlds. Modders might be able to get a few bucks here and there to buy them a coffee to drink while they are making the mods you enjoy. People who want the stuff for free still can. No legal and social nightmares to sort out. Everyone is happy.
...0... Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 So it seems all those money grabbing video youtubers agree and its normal paying for mods lol. Let's see i buy a game for 50 bucks then at launch day developer release DLC content for x $$$ and when i want to mod my game like it did with skyrim that will maybe cost me another 500 bucks at least( installed 253 mods but used maybe 1000+) are they fucking crazy stupid or what. I will NEVER and i say NEVER buy/pay GAME+DLC+EXPANSION+MODS HELL NO. I see mods on steam that are fucking terible asking 1 dollar for it wtf. Fuck the pay walls fuck bethesda fuck Valve and steam. This don't mean modders don't deserve some donation for there mod im all for that, but it should volentary not forced which is this steam deal forced. If i deside not to buy any mods then i prolly have to play vanilla ALWAYS good move bethesda you killed modded game for me. Money grabbing bastards. BLACK DAY for gaming
doctorMe Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 It seems steam might have rights to the content sold, so re-uploading a free version elsewhere may be just as risky. Like I said, anytime soon, if not, ever. They have a non-exclusive right to it.
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