isee Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 The main problem is the workshop itself. With steam -workshop you are back in the middle-ages of modding. You cannot declare the load-sequence, not deinstall the mods clean (like with mod organizer), etc... and if Bethesda only allows steam-workshop mods in future, future looks dim. Exactly that's really the main problem this system has valve and bethesda simply didn't or don't want to do the research on the modding communities that they helped create. Going forward this could be very bad for there next games if they start restricting access. It's hard to go from completely open (morrowind) to the picture I'm getting from this (next fallout) bethesda has slowly been restricting what you can do with the mod tools over time (using proprietary tech) a few years ago they said they wanted to allow mods for consoles setting up a marketplace is the first step to that, the next is making it work. None of this is good for us old modding communities though.
Notalent Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Would paying a few pennies really be that bad for a more updated version? (figure mentioned above is $0.40 which in UK money wouldnt even get me a bad cup of coffee from a cheap vending machine) No, it wouldn't, but think for a moment who is getting the money and what message we as consumers are sending. By buying mods on Steam we essentially support cash grab by Valve and Bethesda, and what now clearly is bad practice for future games. Instead we can say "no" to them and decide with our money. I am however sorry mod authors got caught up in the middle what is essentially a fight between big corporations and consumers. This, how long till your paying for bug fixes? How long till Mod resource creators are demanding payment for access to their resources? What about technical support when patches break mods? Accurate dependencies and conflicts? This is poison in the well, I'd be happy to support a few mod creators for their work, but once modding is a business the whole game changes. Everyone has to protect their assets, everything has to be compatible, full technical support is a requirement, and EVERYONE involved in the creation of a mod has to be paid not just the final creator or group to release it. If SkyUI goes through with this well...the water is going to get a bit more toxic. It really is a no-win situation for the Modders that participate in this. Bethesda and Valve played them and us all beautifully. They get pennies on what they sell and take all the heat. Hahaha, they don't even get pennies. They have to make $400 before they even get a penny, and I'm 99% sure no one is close to making that. What's even more epic, Valve is now claiming some level of ownership over every mod that has appeared in the store...yeah Chesko no longer full controls his own mods. I have bad news for you... You never know, Chesko's literally gone now. This hasn't worked out for anyone involved, it would seem stupid of the SkyUI team to jump on this now, then again who knows if they can even back out. Valve is claiming some level of ownership over Chesko's mods, who knows what they claim to have for mods that haven't technically been released yet, but are promised to the store.
Shiana Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 and this isnt just a vague idea, it has background: Any mod that you as modder upload to steam, has taken its rights from you, and the copyright belongs to valve. Therefore they (Steam) can forbid you to release your mod on any other platform...
doctorMe Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Who wants to boycott Steam? I won't buy any game on Steam from now on.
guk Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Sometimes a picture says more than a thousand words: Seems like everyone's trying to get their share now. We'll see if those "unavailable" mods on Steam mean that they're taking the service down (i doubt it), but otherwise this means bye-bye to ALL skyrim modding. And you would have thought that Chesko getting a letter by Steam's lawyer, saying that they won't remove his own mod, would have made the modders reconsider.
Starless Aeon Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I agree the split as is wasn't cool, i'd expect something like 20/20/60 to beth/steam/author if not 15/15/70 but shooting down the idea and killing the middle men is better how? go back a few pages and their is quite a lot of hostility towards the incorrect people as you say. If you saw the part that was linked with the value replies though think about what that could have meant. a SKSE and FNIS deployable by steam their is a guide on how to install FNIS in this forum with 67k views their are threads in the trouble shooting with problems related to installation of those probably running into the hundreds how many thousands if not hundreds of thousands of mod users could have been saved hours of frustration for a cup of bad coffee Seems to me after reading that the modding user community has just scored a incredibly home goal I never said it's better to kill the middle man, and as I said in my previous post I am sorry that happened. I've seen enough posts about unendorsing mods from certain authors, hate comments and stuff like that, and quite frankly I am sick off it. And I do understand your position. But what I'm trying to say is (and this is a rough translation from my language) if you give them the finger they will take the hand, meaning these companies couldn't care less about users or modders, all they care is money. Profit. Knowing the shady policies of Valve, this is just the beginning. They will make modding less enjoyable and more expensive. For all. In my book this is not a "win" for users.
pinky6225 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Sometimes a picture says more than a thousand words: Seems like everyone's trying to get their share now. We'll see if those "unavailable" mods on Steam mean that they're taking the service down (i doubt it), but otherwise this means bye-bye to ALL skyrim modding. Okay can someone honestly tell my why their being no more troubleshooting threads/rants about having to install SKSE directly is a bad thing? since the SKSE author in the above seems pretty okay with it. I agree the split as is wasn't cool, i'd expect something like 20/20/60 to beth/steam/author if not 15/15/70 but shooting down the idea and killing the middle men is better how? go back a few pages and their is quite a lot of hostility towards the incorrect people as you say. If you saw the part that was linked with the value replies though think about what that could have meant. a SKSE and FNIS deployable by steam their is a guide on how to install FNIS in this forum with 67k views their are threads in the trouble shooting with problems related to installation of those probably running into the hundreds how many thousands if not hundreds of thousands of mod users could have been saved hours of frustration for a cup of bad coffee Seems to me after reading that the modding user community has just scored a incredibly home goal I never said it's better to kill the middle man, and as I said in my previous post I am sorry that happened. I've seen enough posts about unendorsing mods from certain authors, hate comments and stuff like that, and quite frankly I am sick off it. And I do understand your position. But what I'm trying to say is (and this is a rough translation from my language) if you give them the finger they will take the hand, meaning these companies couldn't care less about users or modders, all they care is money. Profit. Knowing the shady policies of Valve, this is just the beginning. They will make modding less enjoyable and more expensive. For all. In my book this is not a "win" for users. But that is what has happened and yes its not cool but arguing a principle for the future while ignoring the reality of how quickly mod users have turned on is hypocrisy Steam, Beth etc are businesses and yes they will always be out to make money since thats what businesses do and their is no reason why they can't do that without being totally evil since being totally evil makes no business sense and if anything costs money since you then have to try and do the PR job to be seen as less evil By poisoning the present with fear for a potential future all we take is no action at all so now absolutely nobody benefits where before a few may have benefitted
winny257 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 there are is another important point, what about now with compensation for damage?if I by faulty mods my hardware scrap, must virtually the modder liable for the resulting harm?unpaid mods are own risk, but there is warranty claim for a paid software!
Starless Aeon Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Sometimes a picture says more than a thousand words: Seems like everyone's trying to get their share now. We'll see if those "unavailable" mods on Steam mean that they're taking the service down (i doubt it), but otherwise this means bye-bye to ALL skyrim modding. And you would have thought that Chesko getting a letter by Steam's lawyer, saying that they won't remove his own mod, would have made the modders reconsider. Well, we all kinda knew it's going to come to this. And I am not disappointed, just a bit sad really.
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 there are is another important point, what about now with compensation for damage? if I by faulty mods my hardware scrap, must virtually the modder liable for the resulting harm? unpaid mods are own risk, but there is warranty claim for a paid software! 24 Hour return policy is offered by the workshop. Though the implications and arguments are out there against it. I'm just putting that out there.
guk Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Okay can someone honestly tell my why their being no more troubleshooting threads/rants about having to install SKSE directly is a bad thing? since the SKSE author in the above seems pretty okay with it. You did notice the part where... SKSE author says that SKSE is coming to Steam SkyUI author mentions the next version of SkyUI being for sale on Steam Expired6978 says that the next version of SkyUI requires the next version of SKSE And then uploads one of his own mods on Steam for sale "Et tu, Brute?"
bjornk Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Good job Valve/Beth! Obviously, if there's enough greed involved, it's pretty easy to destroy a modding community...
winny257 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 there are is another important point, what about now with compensation for damage? if I by faulty mods my hardware scrap, must virtually the modder liable for the resulting harm? unpaid mods are own risk, but there is warranty claim for a paid software! 24 Hour return policy is offered by the workshop. Though the implications and arguments are out there against it. I'm just putting that out there. I do not speak of this Returns policy, I'm talking about when a harm caused by faulty mods on my PC it.
pinky6225 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Okay can someone honestly tell my why their being no more troubleshooting threads/rants about having to install SKSE directly is a bad thing? since the SKSE author in the above seems pretty okay with it. You did notice the part where... SKSE author says that SKSE is coming to Steam SkyUI author mentions the next version of SkyUI being for sale on Steam Expired6978 says that the next version of SkyUI requires the next version of SKSE And then uploads one of his own mods on Steam for sale "Et tu, Brute?" Okay so new version of SkyUI, last version was 2013 which you can keep using and most likely are using already, so what is wrong with him making a new updated version (which he doesnt have to do and making a few bucks off it?) Also the mod you are referring to is the name filter one?
kissofthehell Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I have a question regarding this topic. I watched MMOxReview's video on this topic and he mentioned something. He said that some versions of mods on nexus are updated with a later version on steam which isnt on nexus. Does this mean the updates for mods that are also on steam will come later on Nexus or will the modders just abandom the nexus version? I can understand the pay what you want or the set price tag but still.
Notalent Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 there are is another important point, what about now with compensation for damage? if I by faulty mods my hardware scrap, must virtually the modder liable for the resulting harm? unpaid mods are own risk, but there is warranty claim for a paid software! 24 Hour return policy is offered by the workshop. Though the implications and arguments are out there against it. I'm just putting that out there. It really doesn't matter, if I pay for something I want it to always work. No conflicts except those stated when I buy it, It has to be updated for every patch, if someone else releases a mod that conflicts with that I want a patch that fixes it from one of them or I'll want my money back from both of them. This is the problem, there is a requirement of a certain level of quality assurance when you buy something. That doesn't exist with mods and to be quite honest, shouldn't exist with mods.
Voltanis Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop This petition reached 50k signatures. I hope you all with think about signing it. Even if you think modders should be paid, this is scraps from valves table and an insult to the modding community.
guk Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Okay so new version of SkyUI, last version was 2013 which you can keep using and most likely are using already, so what is wrong with him making a new updated version (which he doesnt have to do and making a few bucks off it?) Also the mod you are referring to is the name filter one? SkyUI = MCM So i suspect that future content using anything of the SKSE / MCM / RaceMenu / etc. standards will be locked behind mentioned paywall in one way or another. Time to remove a couple more Nexus endorsements, brb
Spyder Arachnid Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I have a question regarding this topic. I watched MMOxReview's video on this topic and he mentioned something. He said that some versions of mods on nexus are updated with a later version on steam which isnt on nexus. Does this mean the updates for mods that are also on steam will come later on Nexus or will the modders just abandom the nexus version? I can understand the pay what you want or the set price tag but still. Depends on the modder, and probably how much money they are going to make off their updated version. Chesko and Isoku are waiting a grace period before uploading their updated version to Nexus. For instance, the updated Wet and Cold will come to Nexus is 1-2 months. That is of course, if Valve doesn't stop it since they now own the rights to all mods on the Workshop now and don't want free versions floating around when they can cash in on other people's work instead. While other modders, have completely removed their mods from Nexus and are now putting them on the Steam Workshop for money only. So it all comes down to what the modder chooses to do, and as well, if Valve will allow them to upload free version elsewhere. Cause we already see the fiasco with Chesko's mod, and how Valve is claiming right to it and won't let him remove it. Now imagine what is going to happen if he tries to upload a free version elsewhere, where Valve isn't getting a cut of the profits to a mod "they own" now.
Notalent Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 What I find amusing/sad is that no matter how much one places the price at for whatever mod they still only get a "portion" of that money. damn sounds just like Uncle Sam. are they in kahoots or what? and are mods taxable, does uncle sam want his 30% as well? hmmm another way to tax your ass into oblivion, no pun intended But that's ok, I never download from that clusterfuck anyway or the other clusterfuck that hasn't yet fully jumped on the greed wagon. Your profits would be taxable yes. You would be considered self employed and be required to pay taxes for what you earned from selling mods on the steam workshop.
pinky6225 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Okay so new version of SkyUI, last version was 2013 which you can keep using and most likely are using already, so what is wrong with him making a new updated version (which he doesnt have to do and making a few bucks off it?) Also the mod you are referring to is the name filter one? SkyUI = MCM So i suspect that future content using anything of the SKSE / MCM / RaceMenu / etc. standards will be locked behind mentioned paywall in one way or another. Time to remove a couple more Nexus endorsements, brb Even though in the very picture gallery we are talking about the SKSE dude says that SKSE will always be available for free from their site? don't feel i have the level of entitlement and paranoia necessary for this thread anymore.
ao2thend Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 My predictions for Sky UI. 1. Sky UI 5.0 goes up on Steam 2. Sky UI doesn't make enough money because of modder backlash 3. Valve takes whatever money Sky UI makes (because you have to get a certain amount before they start paying modders). 4. Sky UI team tries to take their mod down 5. Valve claims Sky UI as its own and won't take it down 6. Valve goes after any free versions of Sky UI (including the older Nexus Version) and forces them to be taken down Does this sound about right?
Starless Aeon Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 So i suspect that future content using anything of the SKSE / MCM / RaceMenu / etc. standards will be locked behind mentioned paywall in one way or another. That's what i was referring to when i said bad practice. Now Imagine more updated mods behind a pay wall, all dependent on each other and relying on updated versions. If you want/need one you'll have to buy all for that one to work. So, again, you'll pay more money to Valve and Bethesda. That's really what's hiding behind their little speech about how they care about community and quality of mods.
bjornk Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 My predictions for Sky UI. 1. Sky UI 5.0 goes up on Steam 2. Sky UI doesn't make enough money because of modder backlash 3. Valve takes whatever money Sky UI makes (because you have to get a certain amount before they start paying modders). 4. Sky UI team tries to take their mod down 5. Valve claims Sky UI as its own and won't take it down 6. Valve goes after any free versions of Sky UI (including the older Nexus Version) and forces them to be taken down Does this sound about right? Really hope that will be the case.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.