Deathmaw Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Skyrim hasn't been around 15 years dude My friend makes them as she enjoys making jewellery but as the space she has available if finite she can't keep everything and as every one of her friends that likes the stuff she makes already have shed loads of the stuff giving it away is no longer viable She could throw the stuff away but i'm yet to encounter a single person that makes something that wants to then bin it (probably are some people out their that do this tho) You say that a physical and a digit comparions are not valid, why? Both have an inital out lay (PC + game + electricity for digital, jewellery kits + soldering iron and solder + electricity for physical) and both are done for the fun of it so in what way are they not comparable? Skyrim hasn't been around for 15 years but modding games has. Physical good are finite and require resources to produce each product. Digital products are infinite. Hence the issue. As you have above stated your friend makes them for fun and then sell them as she does not want to throw them away due to this I assume she doesn't sell them for a lot of money. Rather than this whole fiasco steam should of put in a donation system for mods. Or mod authors could turn to a patreon system. Hell some youtubers like MMOXREVIEW get 540 dollars a month from that. Many of the big modders could get more than that if they turned their attention to it. But then of course valve and beth would not get their "cut" that way so steam did it this way.
DukeLeos Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Wow... I love modding... all the cool things I've done and all the cool things I'm getting into... what a fun and rewarding... um... wait... what is all this BS. God damn it...
guk Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 The issue should not be about whether mods have value but on how authors can be compensated without poisoning the well. The fact is that Nexus donation scheme has not worked otherwise you wouldn't have modders jumping ship for a measly 25%. Maybe you can explain why the modders should receive any money at all? The mere idea about allowing even donations brought this upon us. Anyone who wants to earn money with video games, go and get a proper education in that field and apply to a gaming studio. This is all about making tons of cash for Bethesda and Valve without them lifting a single finger. They have produced the game? Well done, Skyrim has probably earned back all the investments within the first week. We have paid THEM the money for a game that nobody would care about without mods. All those additional sales over the years were solely due to the mods, so it should be Bethesda paying the modders - not the users who have actually contributed SOMETHING to the mods in one way or another. Even worse that the game is in fact unplayable without unofficial patches, and it also doesn't look like a game that was released in 2011 in any way. There are games from ~2005-2010 with much better graphics than vanilla Skyrim. Alone bringing money into the highly productive and innovative modding scene has destroyed it within less than 24 hours. See also the drama like Chesko now also removing his mods from Nexus in an attempt to play the victim.
D_ManXX2 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Q. Can I get a refund? A. If you discover that a mod does not work for you, or does not meet your expectations based on the description of the mod, you can get a refund within 24 hours of your purchase. You can view the full refund policy btw what is stopping users from first paying the mod, and then ask a refund but at the same time uploading this on mega uploads site for free etc ??
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Looks like Chesko had a change of heart. http://pllqt.it/rJYQ6M Although it's a good move for anti paid mods. I felt it wasn't a deserved change of heart. A lot of the modding community did pressure Chesko and pretty much burned him at the stake for being a heretic. I feel like this will lead to him losing faith within the community and will slowly fade out of modding because he was persecuted for making a decision he thought was right. That's just a thought though, I may be wrong.
pinky6225 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Skyrim hasn't been around 15 years dude My friend makes them as she enjoys making jewellery but as the space she has available if finite she can't keep everything and as every one of her friends that likes the stuff she makes already have shed loads of the stuff giving it away is no longer viable She could throw the stuff away but i'm yet to encounter a single person that makes something that wants to then bin it (probably are some people out their that do this tho) You say that a physical and a digit comparions are not valid, why? Both have an inital out lay (PC + game + electricity for digital, jewellery kits + soldering iron and solder + electricity for physical) and both are done for the fun of it so in what way are they not comparable? Skyrim hasn't been around for 15 years but modding games has. Physical good are finite and require resources to produce each product. Digital products are infinite. Hence the issue. As you have above stated your friend makes them for fun and then sell them as she does not want to throw them away due to this I assume she doesn't sell them for a lot of money. Rather than this whole fiasco steam should of put in a donation system for mods. Or mod authors could turn to a patreon system. Hell some youtubers like MMOXREVIEW get 540 dollars a month from that. Many of the big modders could get more than that if they turned their attention to it. But then of course valve and beth would not get their "cut" that way so steam did it this way. While the product (i.e mod) is infinite as it can be copied actually hosting something on the internet costs money As does the bandwidth to allow people to download it in a reasonable time frame So to keep my example yes my friend has a finite amount of material to play with but once made it costs her nothing Making the mod might be free but having to host the mod is not so saying it should be treated as if it is free when giving people access itself costs money is deceptive since someone has to pay (i.e the site owner) You mention donations and i agree donations would be a better method but how many people that visit this thread/site can say they have honestly donated to keeping this site free? how many are using ad blockers which cuts the small amount of revenue generated towards the upkeep of the site? So yes donations on principle much better, donations in practise is a different matter
Vault77Dweller Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 SkyUI going pay2play as well: http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1516818-discussion-for-workshop-paid-mods-thread-4/page-5?do=findComment&comment=23943540 I'm just waiting for someone to sent them threats. I know it sounds mean but I want someone to sent them threats from some crime movies. Something like this :"Get this through your head you Jew motherfuckers, you! You only exist out here because of us! That's the only reason! Without *us*, you, personally, every fuckin' wise guy skell around'll take a piece of your fuckin' Jew asses! Then where you gonna go? You're fuckin' warned! Don't ever go over our fuckin' heads again! You motherfuckers, you". Again, I know it's mean but it would be funny as hell . Chesko already has opted out of this. He's been receiving threats. Well, he did use Fore's stuff without permission.
Deathmaw Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 While the product (i.e mod) is infinite as it can be copied actually hosting something on the internet costs money As does the bandwidth to allow people to download it in a reasonable time frame So to keep my example yes my friend has a finite amount of material to play with but once made it costs her nothing Making the mod might be free but having to host the mod is not so saying it should be treated as if it is free when giving people access itself costs money is deceptive since someone has to pay (i.e the site owner) You mention donations and i agree donations would be a better method but how many people that visit this thread/site can say they have honestly donated to keeping this site free? how many are using ad blockers which cuts the small amount of revenue generated towards the upkeep of the site? So yes donations on principle much better, donations in practise is a different matter The bandwidth is being covered by the site. Which are the nexus, LL and Steam. They already have methods of obtaining money via ads or donations. The mod author doesn't have this expense to try and cover. And of course donations are low have you seen the current economic climate? That is another reason why people use mods. They are free and extend the life of a game so they don't have to spend money to buy a new one. Mod authors not making a lot of money from donations is not a good reason to turn to a paywall imo.
TacomancerX Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 paid mods will not float. they will be burned it no obscurity or redistributed if its good for free.
aqqh Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Looks like Chesko had a change of heart. http://pllqt.it/rJYQ6M have you considered his reasons to do so? how does he feell now? Atm i wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that he decided to quit modding.
modslave Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Looks like Chesko had a change of heart. http://pllqt.it/rJYQ6M have you considered his reasons to do so? how does he feell now? Atm i wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that he decided to quit modding. And that would be different from the last two years where he went on hiatus to work on a kickstarter game? I like Chesko's work...and I'm not even begrudging his decision to be part of this SWS thing, but if he was to quit modding tomorrow I'd literally be no worse off than I've been since he parked Frostfall to work on his indy game.
Contessa Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 He's pretty steamed about the message he got from Valve's Lawyer. That's what happens when you get into bed with massive corporations like this. Modders thought they would be respected and looked after by them? No, they are the cannon fodder and their creations no longer become theirs.
Broccoli Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Q. Can I get a refund? A. If you discover that a mod does not work for you, or does not meet your expectations based on the description of the mod, you can get a refund within 24 hours of your purchase. You can view the full refund policy btw what is stopping users from first paying the mod, and then ask a refund but at the same time uploading this on mega uploads site for free etc ?? I'm pretty sure there is a limit on how many times that you can actually get a refund. And yeah it's possible for everyone to do this for now.... first buy the mod and upload it to some file hosters sites and then request for a refund. BUT!! this is where the problems starts, Bethesda will eventually notice it and without any hesitation they will ask the so called retired Skyrim development team to create a new "update" aka encryption DRM for the Creation kit and the game. If this really happens then the mods that was downloaded and installed on the person PC will only work on his/her PC. Say goodbye on sharing free mods =.= And secondly all of the future mods of future Bethesda games are pretty much confirmed Steam Workshop exclusive.
zzz72w3r Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 The issue should not be about whether mods have value but on how authors can be compensated without poisoning the well. The fact is that Nexus donation scheme has not worked otherwise you wouldn't have modders jumping ship for a measly 25%. Maybe you can explain why the modders should receive any money at all? The mere idea about allowing even donations brought this upon us. Anyone who wants to earn money with video games, go and get a proper education in that field and apply to a gaming studio. This is all about making tons of cash for Bethesda and Valve without them lifting a single finger. They have produced the game? Well done, Skyrim has probably earned back all the investments within the first week. We have paid THEM the money for a game that nobody would care about without mods. All those additional sales over the years were solely due to the mods, so it should be Bethesda paying the modders - not the users who have actually contributed SOMETHING to the mods in one way or another. Even worse that the game is in fact unplayable without unofficial patches, and it also doesn't look like a game that was released in 2011 in any way. There are games from ~2005-2010 with much better graphics than vanilla Skyrim. Alone bringing money into the highly productive and innovative modding scene has destroyed it within less than 24 hours. See also the drama like Chesko now also removing his mods from Nexus in an attempt to play the victim. @Guk You have a serious problem of twisting people's words and putting label on people to suit you own need. I did not appreciate you calling me of having a sexual fetish when I was pointing out a design issue with UNP nor I appreciate you labeling me of saying modders "should" be compensated financially. "can" is not "should" and things having value does not automatically equal for sale. If you are going to quote me, quote my entire post and do not twist my intent. Most of all, stop putting label on people. It's the most dishonest way of making an argument. This is my original post and I want this to stop: " I think some of the arguments are getting off track. Even in the worst case scenario where game assets and mods are managed from a sever instead of on the client side free mods will still be feasible. Neither Valve nor Bethesda can and will force authors to charge for mods if the author chose not to even if they have complete control of the ecosystem. That's idiotic and bad for business. Sure many authors will leave the ecosystem out of principal but no technical or business barrier will likely exist to kill off free mods on their platform. When you make blank statements saying I have said number of mods installed and that's too much money, or that I will never pay for mods what you are really saying is that mods you used and enjoyed aren't worth this or that, you just insulted anyone who has ever made a mod for you. The issue should not be about whether mods have value but on how authors can be compensated without poisoning the well. The fact is that Nexus donation scheme has not worked otherwise you wouldn't have modders jumping ship for a measly 25%. "
pinky6225 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 While the product (i.e mod) is infinite as it can be copied actually hosting something on the internet costs money As does the bandwidth to allow people to download it in a reasonable time frame So to keep my example yes my friend has a finite amount of material to play with but once made it costs her nothing Making the mod might be free but having to host the mod is not so saying it should be treated as if it is free when giving people access itself costs money is deceptive since someone has to pay (i.e the site owner) You mention donations and i agree donations would be a better method but how many people that visit this thread/site can say they have honestly donated to keeping this site free? how many are using ad blockers which cuts the small amount of revenue generated towards the upkeep of the site? So yes donations on principle much better, donations in practise is a different matter The bandwidth is being covered by the site. Which are the nexus, LL and Steam. They already have methods of obtaining money via ads or donations. Nexus has a paid for account system which you dont have to join and adverts so i doubt they make a profit LL is paid for by ashal and i highly doubt he makes a profit Mod authors that maintain their own sites pay for their sites directly so yes their is a cost to them The mod author doesn't have this expense to try and cover. Only if its a work shop and as you mentioned 15 years of past its worth noting the workshop is relatively new, before that it was only modding sites or author web sites and in the case of nexus and LL someone else is paying (and is potentially out of pocket to give you the chance to download / share something) And of course donations are low have you seen the current economic climate? That is another reason why people use mods. They are free and extend the life of a game so they don't have to spend money to buy a new one. That doesn't make sense, if you are saving money (new game is what £29.99) you can donate as you now have money you previously didn't have and as you can donate less than you would have paid you'd still be in profit Mod authors not making a lot of money from donations is not a good reason to turn to a paywall imo. Yet we all know donations don't work (due to the inconvience of registering and maintaining logins to give away small amounts of money mainly) so other than getting ourselfs declared insane how is repeating the same action and expecting different results a good thing
Brigade Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 It looks like steam has been going through workshop pages, and removing links to donation sites. May be wrong, but it looks like gaben wants a few new expensive cars.
Contessa Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 I just clicked on the paid mods and am getting an Error: No Longer for Sale page on every one.
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 He's pretty steamed about the message he got from Valve's Lawyer. That's what happens when you get into bed with massive corporations like this. Modders thought they would be respected and looked after by them? No, they are the cannon fodder and their creations no longer become theirs. Can I get source on that?
Contessa Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 He's pretty steamed about the message he got from Valve's Lawyer. That's what happens when you get into bed with massive corporations like this. Modders thought they would be respected and looked after by them? No, they are the cannon fodder and their creations no longer become theirs. Can I get source on that? Real-time update - I was just contacted by Valve's lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless "legally compelled to do so", and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in Arissa 2.0's case, it's black and white; that's 100% mine and Griefmyst's work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable. It's from a link posted earlier, near the bottom of his post: http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/
Irrational Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 He's pretty steamed about the message he got from Valve's Lawyer. That's what happens when you get into bed with massive corporations like this. Modders thought they would be respected and looked after by them? No, they are the cannon fodder and their creations no longer become theirs. Can I get source on that? Real-time update - I was just contacted by Valve's lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless "legally compelled to do so", and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in Arissa 2.0's case, it's black and white; that's 100% mine and Griefmyst's work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable. It's from a link posted earlier, near the bottom of his post: http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/ Thanks, It's scary turnout of events.
D_ManXX2 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 looks like chesko got burned by his own greedyness. priceless..
guk Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 @Guk You have a serious problem of twisting people's words and putting label on people to suit you own need. I did not appreciate you calling me of having a sexual fetish (...) Welcome to the ignore list Sir, congratulations for arriving where no man has gone before.
zzz72w3r Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 @Guk You have a serious problem of twisting people's words and putting label on people to suit you own need. I did not appreciate you calling me of having a sexual fetish (...) Welcome to the ignore list Sir, congratulations for arriving where no man has gone before. ditto
pinky6225 Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 In case peeps not seen, just saw this (on my steam news ironically) http://www.pcgamer.com/paid-for-skyrim-mod-removed-in-a-matter-of-hours/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0 Think the particular mod in the article was mentioned as a example earlier in the thread
Trickle Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 Looks like Chesko had a change of heart. http://pllqt.it/rJYQ6M have you considered his reasons to do so? how does he feell now? Atm i wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that he decided to quit modding. I imagine he feels humbled, gob-smacked. He thought Valve would empower him, but all they really care about is money and control. I hope he regains his footing and shakes this off. His mods are good.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.