Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Texmarker]

5 hours ago, nightwolf said:

Rubber as a raw material is plausible but latex requires knowledge of plastics and chemistry, so sorry, but your test fails.

Latex is unvulcanized rubber. Its the milk from the rubber tree, spread out and left to dry. So rubber requires more chemistry knowledge than latex. And both does not require much. Latex-like substances can be harvested from a plethora of different plants, so it would be very likely that one in skyrim could produce it.

[Xiaron]

1 hour ago, nightwolf said:

Thanks. That's a good solution. I think the biggest issue was that I don't like pink.

That's a minor pet peeve of mine too, pink is not a color I like. ? I do still use them though, just wish I could figure out recoloring.

 

Speaking of catsuits, is there a set of bodyslide sliders for them with HDT support? Currently they have no belly sliders in my game, and that just looks weird since belts do have those sliders.

[Zaflis]

Devious Lore mod has another take on how rubber suits appeared in Skyrim:

Spoiler

The Dark Elf, Llathesi R'uer, has spent her life studying the Dwemer. She was certain she could find some technology in their brass ruins to help make life in Morrowind more hospitable. While she was exploring ruins in the Eastern side of Skyrim, she discovered a brass vial of some strange fluid, and some tomes discussing a new use for Dwarven Oil; a smooth, flexible, and insulating material. She has fallen in love with the skin-tight suits she has made from the stuff, and has since learned how to create it herself, but is always looking for vials of the original.

 

The viscous fluid she is looking for is found in brass Dwarven Vials, most often found in Dwarven Ruins. Falmer hives and Bandit hideouts might also have a set stored away. It's possible these vials may instead contain some useful potions.

 

Llathesi works out her labratory in a small Dwarven Ruin on the road running along the Velothi Mountains, South of Windhelm.

 

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Texmarker said:

Latex is unvulcanized rubber. Its the milk from the rubber tree, spread out and left to dry. So rubber requires more chemistry knowledge than latex. And both does not require much. Latex-like substances can be harvested from a plethora of different plants, so it would be very likely that one in skyrim could produce it.

The magical "ebonite" material in DD is almost impossible to cut. The puzzle is why it isn't used for light armor a lot more  

 

In practice, what modern technology brought to latex, is the ability to color it, and roll it out into sheets of even thickness. Remember that in ancient times, bright colored dyes that worked were incredibly valuable and hard to come by.

 

Treating latex with chlorine is ... not the same as vulcanisation (which uses sulphur) ... but has some of the benefits. You can do it yourself. Some latex clothing is chlorine treated by the manufacturer to stop it tending to stick to itself. Nicer Dutch or German brands seem to do this, though I don't know how it's applied across their product ranges. OTOH, a lot of cheap Indonesian moulded rubber items are pretty much pure untreated latex, are fragile, and decay rapidly with age. Moulded items are typically things like inflatable plugs or gags (though some of these use thick rubber and seem to be treated somehow), but they also do moulded clothing items that are incredibly fragile, and more or less useless.

 

Chlorine treatments for rubber would be well within the capabilities of a low-tech society. Vulcanisation isn't very nice for clothes that you want to be stretchy, though you might use it on restraints, or ... I dunno ... tyres  

 

 

But who cares? Skyrim is unrealistic made-up nonsense, so if you feel that shiny bondage gear is thematically appropriate there, then it makes as much sense as anything else. Realism is impossible to argue about in the context of a fantasy world with an obviously silly economic system, and no regard for the basic laws of physics as they exist in reality.

[Kimy]

5 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

The magical "ebonite" material in DD is almost impossible to cut. The puzzle is why it isn't used for light armor a lot more  

The Dollmaker bought the entire supply!

[SkyAddiction]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

The Dollmaker bought the entire supply!

 

That cheeky hand-wave made me laugh much harder than I should have. 

[WaxenFigure]

13 hours ago, nightwolf said:

Rubber as a raw material is plausible but latex requires knowledge of plastics and chemistry, so sorry, but your test fails. Skyrim is an early middle-age society with barbarians roaming the wilds, and is now in the middle of a civil war. That's why it's very unlikely that someone could manufacture it. You could explain it as a result of alchemy and magic though(like you explain all things in fantasy games). However I realize that everyone doesn't feel the need to justify the presence of content or lore/immersion is secondary to them. If you had said as much I wouldn't argue.

 

I'm using some armors that aren't entirely lore-friendly, so I'm not a lore nazi. We all draw the line at different levels, and it's also influenced by taste, like you said. I probably wouldn't care about credibility if I liked my character being covered in plastic from top to toe.

 

Lore aside, I was only asking for the script that adds the items for the Chloe quest. I don't need to edit the entire mod, because I can reduce the chances for rubber/ catsuits to 0% in the MCM, which is good. The mod is fun in most aspects and I will continue using it.

The existence of the Dwemer ruins and their automatons now a thousand years dead but still functioning calls bullshit on your "Skyrim is an early middle-age society" thought.   Their inclusion in the game makes Skyrim far more of a post-apocalyptical society like Fallout than a Medieval one. 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, WaxenFigure said:

The existence of the Dwemer ruins and their automatons now a thousand years dead but still functioning calls bullshit on your "Skyrim is an early middle-age society" thought.   Their inclusion in the game makes Skyrim far more of a post-apocalyptical society like Fallout than a Medieval one. 

To steal a Kimy phrase, this is "splitting hairs", as medieval society was itself the result of the apocalyptic collapse of civilisation in a region, a collapse that saw dramatic declines in population size, and the loss of culture, technology, and other knowledge, and its replacement with ... other cultures, with different ideas about technology.

 

Fantasy is, after all, just a way of teaching history, badly  

 

Both the Dwemer, and the Roman Empire, were both localised phenomena. Similarly the unfortunate Snow Elves were a culture so tiny that it was confined to Skyrim. Bethesda sometimes allude to a global story, but don't give you a game to play it out in.

 

The LL tendency to twist the Dwemer into a race of bondage obsessed slavers, and use them as the excuse du jour for whatever golden metal sex toy has just been modelled or animated, is probably not quite what Bethesda had in mind. Who cares? I guess some sort of lore excuse is better than nothing.

[CovertDemon]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

To steal a Kimy phrase, this is "splitting hairs", as medieval society was itself the result of the apocalyptic collapse of civilisation in a region, a collapse that saw dramatic declines in population size, and the loss of culture, technology, and other knowledge, and its replacement with ... other cultures, with different ideas about technology.

 

Fantasy is, after all, just a way of teaching history, badly  

 

Both the Dwemer, and the Roman Empire, were both localised phenomena. Similarly the unfortunate Snow Elves were a culture so tiny that it was confined to Skyrim. Bethesda sometimes allude to a global story, but don't give you a game to play it out in.

 

The LL tendency to twist the Dwemer into a race of bondage obsessed slavers, and use them as the excuse du jour for whatever golden metal sex toy has just been modelled or animated, is probably not quite what Bethesda had in mind. Who cares? I guess some sort of lore excuse is better than nothing.

And sometimes, the collapse of a civilization is brought by invaders. The best example being the Nords crushing the Snow Elves.

[thedarkone1234]

So as it happens I had 200 dollmaker suprise boxes after a succesful robbery in her store (which didn't involve console or paying, if you care to believe that), but have a problem: clicking the boxes as a stack only ''equipped'' them. So I seperated one out and opened it successfully. As for the remaining 199, this trick does not work. Even holding only a single one equips it rather than opens it. I put them all in a crate for now and any new box opens normally. Any idea where the bug is with these ones?

 

Also bumping my still unsolved problem that the teleport to the mansion in the Leon quest still refuses to work ?

[Guest]

On 3/6/2019 at 3:37 AM, WaxenFigure said:

The existence of the Dwemer ruins and their automatons now a thousand years dead but still functioning calls bullshit on your "Skyrim is an early middle-age society" thought.   Their inclusion in the game makes Skyrim far more of a post-apocalyptical society like Fallout than a Medieval one. 

The Dwemer are an exception to the rule and calling Skyrim post-apocalyptic because a race who was hiding underground died out is stretching it very far. Dwemer dungeons might be the only post-apocalyptic thing in the game, if you want it so badly to be Fallout. I'm a bit curious here. What do you have against Skyrim being in early middle age anyway? TES is the classic fantasy that we are all used to. Middle-Ages with magic and some steam-punk on the side. Then we can mod it into something more pretentious if we like. Watch your tone before you insult people that don't share your strange ideas.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

To steal a Kimy phrase, this is "splitting hairs", as medieval society was itself the result of the apocalyptic collapse of civilisation in a region, a collapse that saw dramatic declines in population size, and the loss of culture, technology, and other knowledge, and its replacement with ... other cultures, with different ideas about technology.

 

Fantasy is, after all, just a way of teaching history, badly  

 

Both the Dwemer, and the Roman Empire, were both localised phenomena. Similarly the unfortunate Snow Elves were a culture so tiny that it was confined to Skyrim. Bethesda sometimes allude to a global story, but don't give you a game to play it out in.

 

The LL tendency to twist the Dwemer into a race of bondage obsessed slavers, and use them as the excuse du jour for whatever golden metal sex toy has just been modelled or animated, is probably not quite what Bethesda had in mind. Who cares? I guess some sort of lore excuse is better than nothing.

This sums it up nicely. +1 for the last part. ?

[Laura]

I used to have trouble seeing the latex stuff in Skyrim as believable, but in a world where they can teleport and transform metals into gold, it's not really far fetched to me that a shiny black leather could exist.

I never saw something like that in the vanilla game, but a lot of things can happen in a world where dragons fly around, a half blood dragon human is breathing fire and where they materialize things with pure magic. They have magic and technology we can't have in the real world. I like to believe that they would also be capable to create a latex-like material.

I know that a super tight latex catsuit is kinda weird in a medieval setting, but it could be possible and I just really love that stuff.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I know that a super tight latex catsuit is kinda weird in a medieval setting, but it could be possible and I just real love that stuff.

We just need a total vanilla armor replacer that makes all outfits rubber or shiny leather, and the catsuits will fit perfectly into the setting.

[LazyBoot]

44 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

2 hours ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I know that a super tight latex catsuit is kinda weird in a medieval setting, but it could be possible and I just real love that stuff.

We just need a total vanilla armor replacer that makes all outfits rubber or shiny leather, and the catsuits will fit perfectly into the setting.

That would indeed be awesome!

[DonQuiWho]

46 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

That would indeed be awesome!

... with Mihail's Gummi Bears in the Woods

[Kimy]

32 minutes ago, nightwolf said:

Now you're seeing it my way. I know I said "you can't fit that into lore" and people went crazy because I dared question how modern bondage clothing could belong in Skyrim. But I meant that for myself and maybe some other people that shares my opinion(which wasn't obvious by my comment). My opinion on that matter is unchanged, but you can make it work by twisting lore in your imagination because it's a fun mod. That's fine. But if you just add in stuff without considering if it can work for the setting, you show no real respect for the game.

Well, that doesn't really contradict what I said. Because you're obviously correct that turning their game into a giant BDSM playground was probably not what they had in mind, and yet that's more or less what DCL does. That STILL doesn't mean that these things are lore-breaking, because the items are still 100% plausible to exist in the game world. It just means that I added features that Beth probably wouldn't have. Btw. using the "it's lore breaking when it goes against Beth's vision for the game" logic, ALL adult mods would be lore-breaking, because I am pretty sure Beth had none of that stuff in mind, not only my pink armbinders.

 

And don't get me wrong, I totally get your line of thinking, and how you would prefer DCL devices to remain closer to what Beth would have added, had their management decided to make Skyrim a giant BDSM playground. I was just explaining how that's not MY line of thinking, and how I never will hesitate to add items and features as long as they are -plausible-.

32 minutes ago, nightwolf said:

PS Expecting a mod with bondage Giants to come up on LL soon.

Not from me.

[worik]

4 hours ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I used to have trouble seeing the latex stuff in Skyrim as believable

I'm still seeing it as odd and immersion breaking, but that's most likely be fueled by my severe lack of fetish-ish emotions for latex.

That said, I usually switch off all ebonite stuff, rubber, catsuits, etc .. as far as I can. The remaining bindings with Iron, steel, rope, leather, .. that's perfectly enough for me.

But I am hopeful for the future, because I have seen some veeeery good looking rope stuff that could replace catsuits and similar for me. And NOW you'll see me interested

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

Well, that doesn't really contradict what I said. Because you're obviously correct that turning their game into a giant BDSM playground was probably not what they had in mind, and yet that's more or less what DCL does. That STILL doesn't mean that these things are lore-breaking, because the items are still 100% plausible to exist in the game world. It just means that I added features that Beth probably wouldn't have. Btw. using the "it's lore breaking when it goes against Beth's vision for the game" logic, ALL adult mods would be lore-breaking, because I am pretty sure Beth had none of that stuff in mind, not only my pink armbinders.

 

And don't get me wrong, I totally get your line of thinking, and how you would prefer DCL devices to remain closer to what Beth would have added, had their management decided to make Skyrim a giant BDSM playground. I was just explaining how that's not MY line of thinking, and how I never will hesitate to add items and features as long as they are -plausible-.

Not from me.

The thing is that what's plausible to you isn't plausible to other people depending on their ideas so I would be careful using that word. With that mindset anything is plausible in Skyrim, even spaceships. Also, dcur doesn't have to turn Skyrim into a big BDSM playground. It depends on your settings and what content you allow, but I understand what you mean.

 

On another matter, during the Chloe quest, when Nazeem gives you the box, you should consider adding something to cover for the items seemingly being alive and jumping at you. I had a hard time with that scene, because if the items were cursed like the ones we find in chests, anyone handling them would equip them before that. Or is Nazeem a kinky wizard who put a spell on them? I think it would be more immersive if he cast a spell on you instead, followed by a short blackout scene to allow him to equip them on you. It would also be more "plausible" if he demanded sex for the key, and you could choose between that and making the potion. I mean, why would he just walk away like that? I know I wouldn't if I was him.

 

And lastly, I found enchanted robes on the dead Imperial Guards in Helgen. Please refrain from adding free loot that doesn't fit in. Guards don't wear robes, and too much free loot only adds to inflation. I had to remove them myself because I felt guilty when picking up stuff I shouldn't get.

[Kimy]

33 minutes ago, nightwolf said:

The thing is that what's plausible to you isn't plausible to other people depending on their ideas so I would be careful using that word.

Plausibility is an objective category, not a matter of taste. Whether something is plausible is a matter of evaluating the conditions that would allow it to exist in such a fashion and check if these conditions are fulfilled. It's pretty much an application of the scientific method and as such not dependent on anyone's "ideas". While the results are just as debatable as any scientific result, people can't just go "Lalala, I don't like your reality so I am substituting my own". They'd have to disprove the evaluation with similar hard facts. I have yet to hear ANY solid reason why rubber clothing wouldn't be feasible in Skyrim. So... *shrug*

33 minutes ago, nightwolf said:

Also, dcur doesn't have to turn Skyrim into a big BDSM playground. It depends on your settings and what content you allow. If it was what you said I wouldn't allow it in my load order.

You can use many of DCL's features in such as fashion and that's how I intended it, otherwise I'd not have added so many user controls. People should however not conclude that this means I owe them total configurability for each and every feature I am adding to DCL. In the end, DCL's vision is to be the largest BDSM playground it can be, which might include pink catsuits.

33 minutes ago, nightwolf said:

 

On another matter, during the Chloe quest, when Nazeem gives you the box, you should consider adding something to cover for the items seemingly being alive and jumping at you.

When you speak to Nazeem, there is an "explosion" followed by you and Chloe dropping to the ground, which pretty much suggests that he stunned you and locked the devices on while you were unconscious.

33 minutes ago, nightwolf said:

And lastly, I found enchanted robes on the dead Imperial Guards in Helgen. Please refrain from adding free loot that doesn't fit in. If they have armor they can't wear robes at the same time, and too much free loot only adds to inflation. I had to remove them myself because I felt guilty when picking up stuff I shouldn't get.

They can wear plate armor and still have robes in their backpack for whatever reason, including them having them taken from a mage they arrested. Again, it's -plausible- and that's all I need. If you don't like my quest rewards (including dropped loot), just do what you did and dump it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

Plausibility is an objective category, not a matter of taste. Whether something is plausible is a matter of evaluating the conditions that would allow it to exist in such a fashion and check if these conditions are fulfilled. It's pretty much an application of the scientific method and as such not dependent on anyone's "ideas". While the results are just as debatable as any scientific result, people can't just go "Lalala, I don't like your reality so I am substituting my own". They'd have to disprove the evaluation with similar hard facts. I have yet to hear ANY solid reason why rubber clothing wouldn't be feasible in Skyrim. So... *shrug*

You can use many of DCL's features in such as fashion and that's how I intended it, otherwise I'd not have added so many user controls. People should however not conclude that this means I owe them total configurability for each and every feature I am adding to DCL. In the end, DCL's vision is to be the largest BDSM playground it can be, which might include pink catsuits.

When you speak to Nazeem, there is an "explosion" followed by you and Chloe dropping to the ground, which pretty much suggests that he stunned you and locked the devices on while you were unconscious.

They can wear plate armor and still have robes in their backpack for whatever reason, including them having them taken from a mage they arrested. Again, it's -plausible- and that's all I need. If you don't like my quest rewards (including dropped loot), just do what you did and dump it.

I'm not going to disprove anything because there is no point when you can always counter it with some far fetched argument. People can embrace what makes sense or they can ignore it. It's up to them. And just because a guard can wear robes theoretically it doesn't mean they would carry them on their person, so it's not plausible. If they took them from prisoners they would store them in a container and the chance that ALL dead guards are carrying enchanted robes isn't that big really. Again, we have an issue of credibility here adventured by your modding.

 

If you add stuff that didn't need to be there in the first place while also ruining the immersion, is it still good modding? Is adding enchanted two-handed swords to all mages in the College of Winterhold and explaining it with "They could buy swords and enchant them" good modding? You also have ask yourself "Do they have a good incentive to do it?" We are talking about a principle here and not just a particular case. Even Bethesda screwed up by making jewelry drop from animals, but thankfully there are mods to fix that. Maybe I could make such patches for DCL. I just might if there are enough changes to motivate it. With the permission of the author of course.

 

Now I'm going to enjoy this mod while it's still playable. ?

[Kimy]

26 minutes ago, nightwolf said:

I'm not going to disprove anything because there is no point when you can always counter it with some far fetched argument. People can embrace what makes sense or they can ignore it. It's up to them. And just because a guard can wear robes theoretically it doesn't mean they would carry them on their person, so it's not plausible. They simply don't have any use for them and if they took them from prisoners(You would see a lot of mages in underwear occupying the cells) they would store them in a container. The chance that ALL dead guards are carrying enchanted robes isn't that big really. So that was a very poor excuse for leaving a bad mark on a vanilla location with your mod. A good modder tries to implement his work in a way that it isn't too obvious that it's a mod. A bad modder leaves a big mark on the game saying "This was made by X".

You don't understand the difference between "plausible" and "probable". Something being plausible essentially means that it's -possible- to exist/happen, not that it's the most likely state to occur. Would a large number of armored guards have robes on them? Probably not. Is it -possible-? Yes, it is.

 

You also confuse me trying to explain the line of thinking that went into designing my mod with me having to make "excuses" for my decisions. I really don't have to excuse anything I do in DCL to anyone. If I want to put Eisif in a pink catsuit, the only excuse I need is "Because I felt like it." People that don't like my mod are totally free not to use it. Another of my design approaches you apparently attribute to me being a bad modder is that you think modders have an obligation to leave the smallest possible footprint on the base game they mod. We don't, really. Once somebody mods a game, it's no longer THAT game. It becomes a hybrid between the base game and the modder's own vision. Honestly, if DCL wouldn't leave a big mark on Skyim, I wouldn't have bothered to make it.

[CursedGor]

Uh...does "fun" play a role in this discussion? ?

[Kimy]

2 minutes ago, CursedGor said:

Uh...does "fun" play a role in this discussion? ?

As far as I am concerned, yes! "Because it's fun!" is why I made a lot of things the way they are!

[CursedGor]

Totally agree, what you did is fun! ??