Devious Devices - Integration 4.3a (2019-09-10)

[Tyrant99]

25 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Did you start a new game or upgrade mid game? When you and galgat get different outcomes what FNIS counts, maybe it's a bug in FNIS rather than DD. Maybe FNIS can't handle (certain) upgrades very well, or... i have no clue. Which mod manager?

There's nothing ambiguous about the fact that there's exactly 217 additional .HKX files. Anybody can go count them comparing DD 4.0 and DD 4.1 and find the exact same thing. - It's nothing more or less than a mathematical fact.

 

Galgat is doing tests based on overall animation loads and game stability. This is more subjective so may or may not produce anything repeatable or mathematically consistent for different systems. The issue Galgat is having is more likely to have to do with certain categories of animations hitting internal limits in Skyrim's Engine and/or interfering with each other (possibly). It would be interesting to know what's causing the issue, but it would also be fairly difficult to track down.

 

 

[Nazzzgul666]

On 6/6/2018 at 11:43 AM, fore said:

 

Ok, I found the problem. NO NEED TO SEND ME ANY DATA for testing.

 

There are indeed many limits for AA, and FNIS is checking for them. Sort of.  Unfortunately in this case FNIS is checking the wrong variable. You hit a hard limit, only that FNIS isn't showing a proper message.

 

Like almost always in these cases, there is this 128 elements array limit. And therefore you can only have 128 Sets defined (with "AAset" in the FNIS list files). PCEA2 usually has 30 to 40, SM only 2, XPMSE 16, the DD version I have 14. So these are about 70. And your successful FNIS log already shows 105. So it'S very likely that you have passed the 128 with your removed mods.

I hope fore will forgive me for this quote that doesn't require his attention.

Narv, forum is messing with me. @Supertin This is the thing i was refering to. Additionally:

On 6/6/2018 at 11:39 PM, hylysi said:

 

As there are 3 different FNIS DDi 4.1 beta animation lists, would these not also count towards that limit?

14 AAset in FNIS_DD_List.txt

14 AAset in FNIS_DD2_List.txt

14 AAset in FNIS_DD3_List.txt

 

Also, looking at the FNIS_FNISSexyMove_List.txt, there are 3 AAset listed in the file and not the 2 you mentioned. Are there 3 used or is there a special rule that brings it down to 2?

 

On 6/7/2018 at 3:50 PM, fore said:

 

You're right, with SM it is 3 now when you use the 360 pack.

 

And of course all 3 DD versions count. From FNIS point of view these are3 different mods.

So DD has 3 files with AA sets. I'm not sure if these are 14 in total, or actually 14 for each. In any ways FNIS still seems to count those as each, so if it's in total there hopefully is a better way. Like, setting 10 sets in one file, 5 in a second. If it's actually meant as 14 each, well... i guess that's how it is.

I regret offsets are considered deprecated, like mentioned i have some reasons i partly liked them better aside from any limits, but if you say so i (have no choice than ;)) believe you. But if DD actually uses 42 out of 128 in total using offsets if possible will hopefully be considered in future updates, it's not too bad yet but... 

[Supertin]

6 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

Is there any way you can explain this simply for us?  It might help with a lot of the queries

 

Think of any explanation as being pitched at a level which is comprehensible to a clodhopper like me  ?

The simplest explanation is that FNIS adds entries for each animation file you add to your game to the behaviour files. If you have your game load 10000+ animations that's a lot of information to add to the behaviour files. I think most of it is added to the 0_master.hkx. Let's say you imagine this behaviour file as a sheet of paper to write on and the actual animation files as the words you are writing on this paper. Eventually if you write down enough words there will be no more space left to fit any more. The space you are running out of is the limit you are running into if you add too many animations to your game. Although the exact reason why you ran out of space is not clear at the moment. In this exaple that could mean that you don't know what size of your sheet of paper is and that the size of your sheet of paper could be different from others depending on unknown factors. These unknown factors could be that certain animation files will take up more space than others in the behaviours so you run out of space faster, to stick with the example the words your writing might be longer or shorter. There could be a number of unknown factors (hence they're not known).

 

If you want a more technically proficient explanation, you should probably ask fore. There's not many people who know their way around behaviour files, so that's your best bet (perhaps only for now) if you want to have a better understanding.

[Supertin]

3 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I hope fore will forgive me for this quote that doesn't require his attention.

Narv, forum is messing with me. @Supertin This is the thing i was refering to. Additionally:

 

So DD has 3 files with AA sets. I'm not sure if these are 14 in total, or actually 14 for each. In any ways FNIS still seems to count those as each, so if it's in total there hopefully is a better way. Like, setting 10 sets in one file, 5 in a second. If it's actually meant as 14 each, well... i guess that's how it is.

I regret offsets are considered deprecated, like mentioned i have some reasons i partly liked them better aside from any limits, but if you say so i (have no choice than ;)) believe you. But if DD actually uses 42 out of 128 in total using offsets if possible will hopefully be considered in future updates, it's not too bad yet but... 

It's 14 for each. Splitting them up differently or shuffling the used slots around makes no difference.

So yes that's 42, and it will stay at 42 most likely forever. The 14 AA sets refers to the way fnis categorizes animations into sets and not to how DD has AA different AA 'sets' for the different heavy bondage restraints.

We have 30 slots available 10 per folder/"mod", at the moment 18 are actively used so we have 12 left to use. Slots are different from what fnis refers to as sets.

We can use these 12 slots to add more AA variants without increasing the amount of sets we use as long as we use only the same sets that we are already using.

With the current plans we have those 12 slots are more than likely enough to add everything we want to DD.

 

Potentially the way sets are defined for FNIS AAs could be improved, but I can't really comment on that. It's something that fore would have to change in fnis itself. For example there's a set with only mt_idle in it that could be combined with another set. That being said there could be a good reason for why he grouped the the way he did and/or it might be to troublesome to make these changes retroactively.

[galgat]

31 minutes ago, Supertin said:

That is not a fact. The game is not hard coded to limit at 12000 animations. The limit is on the behaviour side anyway and it can differ greatly between load orders. Not even fore knows the exact details and reasons at the moment and he is about the only person who I would trust on this matter to make any concrete statements. Please don't spread misinformation, there's enough of it already.

 

In time it might become clearer what the exact reasons are for the different breaking points people get across are, but for now nobody knows.

   it may not be, but it is what we are commonly taught here, I guess have to make a point though. and I concur.

 

  but as I said the DDI version 4.0 test's this theory pretty closely as with it I ran 11803 successfully.

 

 but with DDI4.1 I have to reduce my animations by about 1600 to run it. and I am using far less animations as zaz 7 only has 895, and zaz 8 has 1731. and I also added far more SLAL to the 4.0 test, which ran very well at 11803 animations.

 

   But the 4.1 refused to load a game with more than 10400 or there about.

 

EDIT >>> what I am trying to find out is what is different, I am not at odds with DDI adding 270 animations, but I am troubled by this problem, and would like to fully understand it. It is costing me way more than 270 animations.

[DonQuiWho]

20 minutes ago, Supertin said:

The simplest explanation is that FNIS adds entries for each animation file you add to your game to the behaviour files. If you have your game load 10000+ animations that's a lot of information to add to the behaviour files. I think most of it is added to the 0_master.hkx. Let's say you imagine this behaviour file as a sheet of paper to write on and the actual animation files as the words you are writing on this paper. Eventually if you write down enough words there will be no more space left to fit any more. The space you are running out of is the limit you are running into if you add too many animations to your game. Although the exact reason why you ran out of space is not clear at the moment. In this exaple that could mean that you don't know what size of your sheet of paper is and that the size of your sheet of paper could be different from others depending on unknown factors. These unknown factors could be that certain animation files will take up more space than others in the behaviours so you run out of space faster, to stick with the example the words your writing might be longer or shorter. There could be a number of unknown factors (hence they're not known).

 

If you want a more technically proficient explanation, you should probably ask fore. There's not many people who know their way around behaviour files, so that's your best bet (perhaps only for now) if you want to have a better understanding.

 

 

That's really helpful, thanks

 

So, to use another picture, it sounds a bit like having a big cylinder, in which are multiple compartments with 'floating' dividers, each of which compartments may vary in volume, and as you feed liquid into any compartment, the others can then either take less if the total cylinder volume is not yet used up, but you can still maybe feed in no more if the compartment being fed is now at any hard full limit set for it, or have to get rid of content elsewhere, or if the whole is now full and can't take in any more without that happening

 

And to add to the joys, nobody knows what the upper (or lower) limits are for any compartment, or even the actual size of the total cylinder

 

But everybody does know that if you manage to inadvertently overpressurise one, or some, or all of the individual compartments, or the whole thing, it blows up

 

[galgat]

  my test only show that DDI4.1 is adding approximately  217 animations.  but that figure was determined with the Dev version i have not counted them in the 4.1 release. DDI4 had 1025, and DDI4.1 showed to have 1242

 

   It just does not make sense to me. And I am looking for and answer, not prosecution.  It is a help thread after all, and that is what i am seeking.

[Reesewow]

4 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

 

 

That's really helpful, thanks

 

So, to use another picture, it sounds a bit like having a big cylinder, in which are multiple compartments with 'floating' dividers, each of which compartments may vary in volume, and as you feed liquid into any compartment, the others can then either take less if the total cylinder volume is not yet used up, but you can still maybe feed in no more if the compartment being fed is now at any hard full limit set for it, or have to get rid of content elsewhere, or if the whole is now full and can't take in any more without that happening

 

And to add to the joys, nobody knows what the upper (or lower) limits are for any compartment, or even the actual size of the total cylinder

 

But everybody does know that if you manage to inadvertently overpressurise one, or some, or all of the individual compartments, or the whole thing, it blows up

Sounds like a reasonable analogy, which to kind of attempt to answer @galgat - I don't think anyone could explain exactly why you are seeing the specific numbers you are without being an expert in Skyrim's engine and behavior files and also having unlimited access to your particular setup.  Why you are losing that exact capacity on upgrading to 4.1 probably depends on more factors than just the number of animations added by DD's upgrade, or even their type.

 

For instance, it would be interesting if you ran the same subjective experiment on an AA adding mod like PCEA2 or FNIS Sexy Moves and see if adding those mods has a similar effect on "max" animation counts, but I don't think it would necessarily be a good use of your time.

 

However, unless someone finds a specific "bug" in DD that is causing extra FNIS load issues, I think at this point we just have to understand that numbers don't matter as much understanding a crash = "too much".  Remember that talking about anything over 10k is already into FORE's "danger zone" and if he had stuck to his guns and never offered FNIS XXL we wouldn't have the benefit of trying to squash a few hundered extra animations in between load orders.

[Nazzzgul666]

16 minutes ago, Supertin said:

It's 14 for each. Splitting them up differently or shuffling the used slots around makes no difference.

So yes that's 42, and it will stay at 42 most likely forever.

Oh, ok. So while i still think my worries weren't totally unreasonable, it sounds like the longterm solution i considered necessary is already there.

I was hoping it might have been some kind of mistake and you'd actually just need 14, that would have been a huge difference to 42. But it sounds like it would cost fore a lot of work to reach a decrease of maybe 1-5... and that doesn't sound like it's worth it even if backwards compatibility and everything could be kept. 

 

@galgat Did you consider the whole AA set thing? to me it sounds like you're rather hitting that than any other limit. I'm not sure which 12k limit you're refering to - afaik that was never a Skyrim limit but one of FNIS - which is gone at least if you use the XXl version, and i believe 12k is outdated quite a while now regardless of the version. Been using XXl since years now, though, no idea where the limit is for other versions. 

For testing you might remove any mod that uses AA sets except DD and see how many SLAL packs you can add then. Like PCEA, FNIS sexy move, probably some Nexus mods like that TK dodge mod or similars.

[ttpt]

ok, I'm not super great at reading the FNIS logs so I'll just post a comparison between the stuff that works and the stuff that doesn't by changing only from DD40 to DD41 and nothing else

 

With DD4.0 this is the important stuff that I get

 

Reading DD V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 472 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD2 V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ...

 

All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files...
 1 GENDER modifications for Animations\male
 173 GENDER modifications for Animations\female
Alternate Animation mods: 14 sets: 76 total groups: 298 added file slots: 1801 alternate files: 1260

 

 10945 animations for 45 mods successfully included (character).
 3608 animations for 7 mods and 43 creatures successfully included..

With DD4.1

 

Reading DD V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 493 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD2 V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD3 V4.1.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 102 alternate animations) ...
 

All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files...
 1 GENDER modifications for Animations\male
 173 GENDER modifications for Animations\female
Alternate Animation mods: 15 sets: 90 total groups: 396 added file slots: 2578 alternate files: 1383

 11162 animations for 46 mods successfully included (character).
 3608 animations for 7 mods and 43 creatures successfully included..

 

 

 

Which makes for a difference of yes 11162-10945=217 animations which seems correct. Alternate files seems to go from 1383-1260=160. One set added with DD3 which I suspect is what makes things go from 76+14=90. Total groups from 298 to 396. And the file slot change which goes from 1801 to 2578 which seems like the biggest spike and probably the culprit, but I don't really know for sure. Just tossing this out here in case it's helpful.

[galgat]

 

1 hour ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Oh, ok. So while i still think my worries weren't totally unreasonable, it sounds like the longterm solution i considered necessary is already there.

I was hoping it might have been some kind of mistake and you'd actually just need 14, that would have been a huge difference to 42. But it sounds like it would cost fore a lot of work to reach a decrease of maybe 1-5... and that doesn't sound like it's worth it even if backwards compatibility and everything could be kept. 

 

@galgat Did you consider the whole AA set thing? to me it sounds like you're rather hitting that than any other limit. I'm not sure which 12k limit you're refering to - afaik that was never a Skyrim limit but one of FNIS - which is gone at least if you use the XXl version, and i believe 12k is outdated quite a while now regardless of the version. Been using XXl since years now, though, no idea where the limit is for other versions. 

For testing you might remove any mod that uses AA sets except DD and see how many SLAL packs you can add then. Like PCEA, FNIS sexy move, probably some Nexus mods like that TK dodge mod or similars.

   I have considered those thing's, but for the difference to be so great between the two version's, it just does not really add up. I used the same profile for each, and I added boo coo's of extra animations to the 4.0 version, and it still loaded. I just do not see that.

 

  but it does not add up. 11803 animations with 4.0, and suddenly 4.1 pop's at 10400.  That is such a huge difference. and troubling as the only real difference between my test's is that I added a huge amount of extra animations to the 4.0 and it ran fine. They were both the same profile.

   I mean nearly 1600 animations lost is a lot. if this happens this time, as i said be for what will happen if they add another two or three animations to DDI. will the number double. Something is wrong. I do not know what, but something is not right. 

   I mean 217 animations suddenly cost' almost 1600, that is pretty explosive.

 

 

EDIT >>> by the way I have never ran PCEA, I do not use any alternate animations at all. except for FNIS sexy Moves.

 

EDIT >>> Here is the load order, but this is the working DDI4.1 which is limited to under or about 10400.

 

 

EDIT >>> give me a little and I will Bump a FNIS output.

 

EDIT >>> Here is FNIS OutPut

 

 

 

FNIS Behavior V7.4.4 XXL   6/11/2018 7:23:04 PM
Skyrim 32bit: 1.9.32.0 - c:\steamdir\steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim\ (Steam)

Skeleton(hkx) female: XPMS2HDT (115 bones)   male: XPMS2HDT (115 bones)
Patch: "GENDER Specific Animations"
Patch: "SKELETON Arm Fix"

Reading AnimationsByLeito V1.0 ...
Reading Anubs Human V1.0 ...
Reading Billyy_Creature V1.0 ...
Reading Billyy_Creature2 V1.0 ...
Reading Billyy_CreatureFurniture V1.0 ...
Reading Billyy_Human V1.0 ...
Reading Billyy_HumanFurniture V1.0 ...
Reading DD V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 493 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD2 V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD3 V4.1.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 102 alternate animations) ...
Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ...
Reading FNIS V5.1.1 ...
Reading FNISBase V7.4.4 ...
Reading FNISCreatureVersion V6.1 ...
Reading FNISSexyMove V6.1  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 18 alternate animations) ...
Reading FunnyBizAmp V8.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizBeastly V1.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizBound V12.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizCB V1.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizFC V10.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizFemDom V1.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizFun V12.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizGroup V8.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizMC V1.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizMolag V1.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizNecro V10.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizRape V11.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizUn V12.0 ...
Reading K4Anims V1.0 ...
Reading MoreNastyCritters V1.0 ...
Reading Necro V1.6 ...
Reading NibblesAnims V1.0 ...
Reading P1FlyingRing V?.? ...
Reading ProxyAnims V1.0 ...
Reading RohZima V1.0 ...
Reading SH_animFurn V1.0 ...
Reading SRBCreatures V1.0 ...
Reading SexLab V1.62 ...
Reading SexLabAroused V?.? ...
Reading SexLabCreature V1.61 ...
Reading XPMSE V7.2  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 164 alternate animations) ...
Reading ZaZAnimationPack V7.00  ( 26 furniture, 29 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 0 alternate animations) ...
Reading znarokspack V1.0 ...

All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files...
 108 GENDER modifications for Animations\male
 108 GENDER modifications for Animations\female
Alternate Animation mods: 5 sets: 59 total groups: 291 added file slots: 2186 alternate files: 1107

Create Creature Behaviors ...
Reading MoreNastyCritters V1.0 ...
Reading Billyy_Creature2 V1.0 ...
Reading Billyy_Creature V1.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizFC V1.0 ...
Reading FunnyBizMC V1.0 ...
Reading NibblesAnims V1.0 ...
Reading SexLabCreature V1.62 ...
Reading FunnyBizCB V1.0 ...
Reading Billyy_CreatureFurniture V1.0 ...
Reading K4Anims V?.? ...
Reading Necro V?.? ...
Reading SH_animFurn V1.0 ...
Reading SRBCreatures V1.0 ...

 10295 animations for 43 mods successfully included (character)
 3555 animations for 13 mods and 43 creatures successfully included.

 

 

 

 

# This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.
Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
SGHairPackBase.esm
ApachiiHairFemales.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
Heels Sound.esm
hdtHighHeel.esm
ZaZAnimationPack.esm
SexLab.esm
SexLabAroused.esm
Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
Devious Devices - Assets.esm
Devious Devices - Integration.esm
Devious Devices - Expansion.esm
CreatureFramework.esm
SkyUI.esp
UIExtensions.esp
AddItemMenu.esp
Animated Dragon Wings.esp
Auto Unequip Ammo.esp
AMatterOfTime.esp
SlaveTats.esp
UnreadBooksGlow.esp
PassiveWeaponEnchantmentRecharging.esp
Unlimited Training.esp
No More Glowing Edges.esp
MoreNastyCritters.esp
HentaiCreatures.esp
AllowPCDialogue.esp
SexLabWerewolves.esp
CWneutral.esp
TalvasScriptSpammerFix.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
RaceMenuMorphsUUNP.esp
12FemaleBrows.esp
Nordic Warmaiden Body Hair.esp
XPMSE.esp
Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
SOS - B3lisario UNP Addon.esp
SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
SLAnimLoader.esp
AnubAnimObj.esp
SLALAnimObjBillyy.esp
NibblesAnimObjects.esp
SLAL_ProxyAnimObjects.esp
SLAL_K4Anims.esp
SLAL_SHanimAnimObj.esp
RohZima_AnimObjects.esp
SLALAnimObj.esp
FNIS.esp
FNISSexyMove.esp
Craftable and Placeable Havok-enabled Bedrolls .esp
SGHairPackAIO.esp
Remodeled Armor - Underwear.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dawnguard.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer - Dragonborn.esp
Remodeled Armor - Vanilla Replacer.esp
mcgDwarvenDeviousCuirass.esp
Zipsuit.esp
StoneheartStudio Jewelry.esp
SissySuite.esp
Tiwa44_Minidresses.esp
Tiwa44_Minidresses_Dragonborn.esp
TimingIsEverything.esp
Luxury Collection.esp
amk Border Lace Lingerie.esp
Dwarvenbikini.esp
P1FlyingRing.esp
Luxury Collection Vendor.esp
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp
GGFriendlyWhore.esp
 

 

 

[ragnam]

how I have seen FNIS count animations that are left over folders from mods and esps. my mistake I deleted the esps but not the folders to those old mods.....
sooo made me think this....

I have an idea, a long time ago there was a mod like funny biz cat house mod like 3 years ago, I followed the manual install of the zip.
a few weeks later after testing it I manually deleted the esp. 
HOWEVER FNIS at the time will still call/count or could see all of those non used animations even though the esp did not call them into game.
I had do the same thing with AP scripts....and deleted the the AP esp but never removed the actual animation from my build that somehow FNIS would still scan and or count , bottom line FNIS was still acknowledging unused animations not called into the game. 

When testing PAHE I had many conflicts in papyrus, after several attempts trying to figure out how FNIS was saying I had AP and FunnyBiz animation conflict with new mods and I have not had those two installed for over a year or the esps.

When I manual found the left over mod folders for FB and AP and deleted the animations folders and stuff, Fnis finally stop reading them in the build and my counts/conflicts dropped off and I had no more issues. (week of pulling hair out finding old left over folders and files) 

THIS brings me to wonder, with all the various selections this 4.1 has, are you installing all the animations and only dropping in the selected esps which are chosen. and from those esp will only call on some of the animations which are install? or do you only install ONLY the animations that are selected with the choice?

I was wondering if you drop them all in the build maybe FNIS is reading all the animations while you might only be using some for each esp chosen?
that why I wonder if you say the largest choice might have 270 , but did the install have over a 1000+ total animations for all of the possiable selections of choices dropped into the game build?

My best guess is that FNIS read file types in the game build area, not what the esps call for or ticked active esps.

I might try that next time (maybe this Tuesday evening) I select default choice for both DDi 4.1, I should not find this version installing all the various combinations animations into my game build right?

 

[Reesewow]

On a completely separate topic - as someone who never tried the beta the 4.1 update has been great so far.  I'm really looking forward to how mods will use these new items going forward, especially the pet suit and the pony play animation gear.

 

I've already made a point of swapping the pony versions of some gear for certain mods where it would suit.  Thanks alot for the update, and really looking forward to your treatment of furnitures and update DD Sexlab animations.

[galgat]

19 minutes ago, ragnam said:

how I have seen FNIS count animations that are left over folders from mods and esps. my mistake I deleted the esps but not the folders to those old mods.....
sooo made me think this....

I have an idea, a long time ago there was a mod like funny biz cat house mod like 3 years ago, I followed the manual install of the zip.
a few weeks later after testing it I manually deleted the esp. 
HOWEVER FNIS at the time will still call/count those animations even though the esp did not call them into game.
I had do the same thing with AP scripts....and deleted the the AP esp but never removed the actual animation from my build that somehow FNOS would still scan and count 

When testing PAHE I had many conflicts in papyrus, after several attempts trying to figure out how FNIS was saying I had AP and FunnyBiz animation conflict with new mods and I have not had those two installed for over a year or the esps.

When I manual found the left over mod folders for FB and AP and deleted the animations folders and stuff, Fnis finally stop reading them in the build and my counts dropped and I had no more conflicts. (week of pulling hair out finding old left over folders and files) 

THIS brings me to wonder, with all the various selections this 4.1 has, are you installing all the animations and only dropping in the selected esps which are chosen. and from those esp will only call on some of the animations which are install? or do you only install ONLY the animations that are selected with the choice?

I was wondering if you drop them all in the build maybe FNIS is reading all the animations while you might only be using some for each esp chosen?
that why I wonder if you say the largest choice might have 270 , but did the install have over a 1000+ total animations for all of the possiable selections of choices?

My best guess is that FNIS read file types in the game build area, not what the esps call for or ticked active esps.

I might try that next time (maybe this Tuesday evening) I select default choice for both DDi 4.1, I should not find this version installing all the various combinations animations into my game build right?

 

   If the mod is loaded, and even if the ESP is removed the script's and animation will still be there ( If it is in the main skyrim folder ), but FNIS will count them, and the will be and addition to your animation limit if that is what you are asking.  I may have not understood.

 

I use MO, and when i remove a mod with it, the mod is gone.

[DonQuiWho]

One day, somebody is going to click the light switch.

 

Brightness will penetrate darkened corners, eyes will blink in the unaccustomed glare

 

And everyone, with one voice will say...

 

... "Ah, it's all clear now.  No one really effing knows"

 

\smh and goes to bed.

 

 

[ragnam]

7 minutes ago, galgat said:

   If the mod is loaded, and even if the ESP is removed the script's and animation will still be there ( If it is in the main skyrim folder ), but FNIS will count them, and the will be and addition to your animation limit if that is what you are asking.  I may have not understood.

 

I use MO, and when i remove a mod with it, the mod is gone.

Thats exactly what I am saying, I am wondering if ddi 4.1 drops all the animations into the game build, and only drops the chice selected esp's to use only the selected animations.

More or less I was hoping that all the combinations are not being dropped in the game build and having some un counted #'s but fnis might not be showing, thats why when I removed most all my slal animations I still did not have enough room even when my count dropped 1500 to 2000 counts veer 4.1 would still ctd

All I can do is try installing it again next chance and manually counting the new animation files that show up in the build folders.
maybe also double check NMM is actually removing old folders too from other mods and the previous ver 4.0
maybe I even get rid of all the dance animations mods too as a test.

 

 

 

[galgat]

10 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

On a completely separate topic - as someone who never tried the beta the 4.1 update has been great so far.  I'm really looking forward to how mods will use these new items going forward, especially the pet suit and the pony play animation gear.

 

I've already made a point of swapping the pony versions of some gear for certain mods where it would suit.  Thanks alot for the update, and really looking forward to your treatment of furnitures and update DD Sexlab animations.

   I absolutely agree, but I am just concerned with losing so many animations to it. And so I am looking for help. With that many animations lost, it will be troublesome to play any mod that require's a lot of certain type's, and the mods get really boring quick to me, if animations become to repetitive.

 

   But I am liking the new stuff, but the cost right now is a lot in animations for some reason.

[ragnam]

I always like testing out new stuff, but if it takes away all the variety, however with some of the joking aside of others saying zaz ver 13 and ddi ver 22 , we might get stuck with one or the other. and when a new molder releases a new animation set you really want to test, the player must either remove the mega mods,  zaz or ddi mode just to try out a set of new animations they see pop up on LL list as new.  
  my first goal is to get it working so I can review and comment and see how much other mods work with DDi too as in the past, without gutting most of my build that took a year to keep very balanced with no CTD for a year from conflicts or stuff. as they say, mod it till it breaks!!!

 

[galgat]

7 minutes ago, ragnam said:

I always like testing out new stuff, but if it takes away all the variety, however with some of the joking aside of others saying zaz ver 13 and ddi ver 22 , we might get stuck with one or the other. and when a new molder releases a new animation set you really want to test, the player must either remove the mega mods,  zaz or ddi mode just to try out a set of new animations they see pop up on LL list as new.  

   yes I am expecting that, it's just that this loss is so Huge, I mean 217 loss was not a big deal to me, I was prepared for that, but this is a really large loss for me, and Not very easy to except. as anyone can see I run a very lean load order, I only put in it what i think i will actually play with. Over the years I have found that downloading every single clothing, and armor mod is sort of counter productive, as I always have my favorite ones, and so I have gotten very selective about what I run.

 

    Mod Organizer has really help me with that, as i have multiple profile's that have no connection with the main folder, and keep thing's very nice and neat. Easy to back up, and totally different skyrim.ini and config files for every one of them.  For me it is a true blessing when running and testing so many mods. 

[ragnam]

Just now, galgat said:

   yes I am expecting that, it's just that this loss is so Huge, I mean 217 loss was not a big deal to me, I was prepared for that, but this is a really large loss for me, and Not very easy to except. as anyone can see I run a very lean load order, I only put in it what i think i will actually play with. Over the years I have found that downloading every single clothing, and armor mod is sort of counter productive, as I always have my favorite ones, and so I have gotten very selective about what I run.

 

    Mod Organizer has really help me with that, as i have multiple profile's that have no connection with the main folder, and keep thing's very mice and neat. Easy to back up, and totally different skyrim.ini and config files for every one of them.  For me it is a true blessing when running and testing so many mods. 

Same here, I just backed up my archive 230 gigs (took me 10.5 hrs to back a external back up) , I had like 750 mods in my NMM and 385 mods running at 253 plugins, and yes I fell victim to grabbing every cloth/armor mod too at one time some mods are my own made ones or projects I am part of. so having the most popular mods installed helps me see any potential conflicts before we release or while testing them behind the scenes.
DDi will be a must have, but zaz is too

[galgat]

1 hour ago, Reesewow said:

Sounds like a reasonable analogy, which to kind of attempt to answer @galgat - I don't think anyone could explain exactly why you are seeing the specific numbers you are without being an expert in Skyrim's engine and behavior files and also having unlimited access to your particular setup.  Why you are losing that exact capacity on upgrading to 4.1 probably depends on more factors than just the number of animations added by DD's upgrade, or even their type.

 

For instance, it would be interesting if you ran the same subjective experiment on an AA adding mod like PCEA2 or FNIS Sexy Moves and see if adding those mods has a similar effect on "max" animation counts, but I don't think it would necessarily be a good use of your time.

 

However, unless someone finds a specific "bug" in DD that is causing extra FNIS load issues, I think at this point we just have to understand that numbers don't matter as much understanding a crash = "too much".  Remember that talking about anything over 10k is already into FORE's "danger zone" and if he had stuck to his guns and never offered FNIS XXL we wouldn't have the benefit of trying to squash a few hundered extra animations in between load orders.

   But the numbers do matter to all of us, I mean that is a troublesome thing, we are pretty much all here because we like adult entertainment, and long ago left games like Mario, and ( but I still do play those some on and emulator ).

 

   My thoughts are if i lose 1600 animations to this DDI version what will happen next version.. it does concern me. And I do look at where things are going.  I hope it is a bug that can be found, because this trend would ruin a lot of fun mod's.

[Reesewow]

25 minutes ago, galgat said:

   But the numbers do matter to all of us, I mean that is a troublesome thing, we are pretty much all here because we like adult entertainment, and long ago left games like Mario, and ( but I still do play those some on and emulator ).

 

   My thoughts are if i lose 1600 animations to this DDI version what will happen next version.. it does concern me. And I do look at where things are going.  I hope it is a bug that can be found, because this trend would ruin a lot of fun mod's.

Concern is fine, but I'd say it is safe to assume that nobody here has an answer for you.  At least not now.  Possibly someone will come up with an answer in the days and weeks ahead but we're kind of beating a dead horse here, since the DD team has already directly replied to your post and no new information has show up yet to help offer a clear picture of the problem.

 

You've said you are a MO user, so at the very least you have the option of multiple profiles with different sets of animation mods.  As you say we all like adult entertainment, so you'll have to decide if 4.1 is worth the lighter load order or not.  Hopefully someone comes up with a work around or at least a clearer understanding of the issue, but us filling the thread with the same issue over and over won't speed that up.

 

Just my 2c.

[ragnam]

seleceted default both choices
ddi 4.0 
Reading DD V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 472 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD2 V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ...
Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ...

ddi 4.1
Reading DD V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 493 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD2 V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD3 V4.1.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 102 alternate animations) ...
Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ...

 

increased 122 alternate animations

---
totals
4.0 was
Alternate Animation mods: 6 sets: 75 total groups: 255 added file slots: 2386 alternate files: 1544
 9305 animations for 49 mods successfully included (character)
 1612 animations for 5 mods and 38 creatures successfully included.

4.1 is
Alternate Animation mods: 7 sets: 89 total groups: 353 added file slots: 3163 alternate files: 1667
 9522 animations for 50 mods successfully included (character)
 1612 animations for 5 mods and 38 creatures successfully included.

 

------
I see it as a 700 ish increase to added file slots     alternate animations increased just 123

added 14 new groups
added 100 total groups ? total groups of what does this mean? 
added file slots: 700ish << Q. what are file slots? that was the largest jump
700 is a huge number, 

so if I selected the choices default, it went up 123 alternate animations with 700 animation files or slots they take up in like SL ?
can someone explain what added file slots are?

[a6b7c899]

In case it helps anyone, Milk Mod Economy's soft DDI integration was causing CTD issues for me on loading old save games after installing DDI 4.1.

 

Trying a new games would start, but MME would blow up during initialization and prevent other mods from installing correctly and cause CTD on attempting to load any save file created even off new games. I had to pull it out of my load order to get things working again, after which both new and old saves loaded correctly.

 

Also, the armbinders, elbowbinders and pet suit really do need a bit of bodyslide love...

[MrEsturk]

8 hours ago, Lute said:

If you're running Slaverun Reloaded the implementation of the crawling animation in the MCM menu breaks this as it forces either the default idles or the crawling idles. If you comment out any lines mentioning 'crawl' in SLV_PeriodicCheck.psc and recompile it'll fix it, or you can wait for a bugfix.

 

On an unrelated note, I still need help with my offset bound animation issue; could somebody at least please link me to a 4.0 changelog?

 

 

Yep that was the cause it seems. Thank you. Strange that it didn't start happening until I install the most recent build of Slaverun. The previous version of Slaverun I was using had the crawl option yet never triggered that glitch. Good old Skyrim trolling me again...