Reesewow Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 On a completely separate topic - as someone who never tried the beta the 4.1 update has been great so far. I'm really looking forward to how mods will use these new items going forward, especially the pet suit and the pony play animation gear. I've already made a point of swapping the pony versions of some gear for certain mods where it would suit. Thanks alot for the update, and really looking forward to your treatment of furnitures and update DD Sexlab animations. 1
galgat Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, ragnam said: how I have seen FNIS count animations that are left over folders from mods and esps. my mistake I deleted the esps but not the folders to those old mods..... sooo made me think this.... I have an idea, a long time ago there was a mod like funny biz cat house mod like 3 years ago, I followed the manual install of the zip. a few weeks later after testing it I manually deleted the esp. HOWEVER FNIS at the time will still call/count those animations even though the esp did not call them into game. I had do the same thing with AP scripts....and deleted the the AP esp but never removed the actual animation from my build that somehow FNOS would still scan and count When testing PAHE I had many conflicts in papyrus, after several attempts trying to figure out how FNIS was saying I had AP and FunnyBiz animation conflict with new mods and I have not had those two installed for over a year or the esps. When I manual found the left over mod folders for FB and AP and deleted the animations folders and stuff, Fnis finally stop reading them in the build and my counts dropped and I had no more conflicts. (week of pulling hair out finding old left over folders and files) THIS brings me to wonder, with all the various selections this 4.1 has, are you installing all the animations and only dropping in the selected esps which are chosen. and from those esp will only call on some of the animations which are install? or do you only install ONLY the animations that are selected with the choice? I was wondering if you drop them all in the build maybe FNIS is reading all the animations while you might only be using some for each esp chosen? that why I wonder if you say the largest choice might have 270 , but did the install have over a 1000+ total animations for all of the possiable selections of choices? My best guess is that FNIS read file types in the game build area, not what the esps call for or ticked active esps. I might try that next time (maybe this Tuesday evening) I select default choice for both DDi 4.1, I should not find this version installing all the various combinations animations into my game build right? If the mod is loaded, and even if the ESP is removed the script's and animation will still be there ( If it is in the main skyrim folder ), but FNIS will count them, and the will be and addition to your animation limit if that is what you are asking. I may have not understood. I use MO, and when i remove a mod with it, the mod is gone.
DonQuiWho Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 One day, somebody is going to click the light switch. Brightness will penetrate darkened corners, eyes will blink in the unaccustomed glare And everyone, with one voice will say... ... "Ah, it's all clear now. No one really effing knows" \smh and goes to bed.
ragnam Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, galgat said: If the mod is loaded, and even if the ESP is removed the script's and animation will still be there ( If it is in the main skyrim folder ), but FNIS will count them, and the will be and addition to your animation limit if that is what you are asking. I may have not understood. I use MO, and when i remove a mod with it, the mod is gone. Thats exactly what I am saying, I am wondering if ddi 4.1 drops all the animations into the game build, and only drops the chice selected esp's to use only the selected animations. More or less I was hoping that all the combinations are not being dropped in the game build and having some un counted #'s but fnis might not be showing, thats why when I removed most all my slal animations I still did not have enough room even when my count dropped 1500 to 2000 counts veer 4.1 would still ctd All I can do is try installing it again next chance and manually counting the new animation files that show up in the build folders. maybe also double check NMM is actually removing old folders too from other mods and the previous ver 4.0 maybe I even get rid of all the dance animations mods too as a test.
galgat Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Reesewow said: On a completely separate topic - as someone who never tried the beta the 4.1 update has been great so far. I'm really looking forward to how mods will use these new items going forward, especially the pet suit and the pony play animation gear. I've already made a point of swapping the pony versions of some gear for certain mods where it would suit. Thanks alot for the update, and really looking forward to your treatment of furnitures and update DD Sexlab animations. I absolutely agree, but I am just concerned with losing so many animations to it. And so I am looking for help. With that many animations lost, it will be troublesome to play any mod that require's a lot of certain type's, and the mods get really boring quick to me, if animations become to repetitive. But I am liking the new stuff, but the cost right now is a lot in animations for some reason.
ragnam Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 I always like testing out new stuff, but if it takes away all the variety, however with some of the joking aside of others saying zaz ver 13 and ddi ver 22 , we might get stuck with one or the other. and when a new molder releases a new animation set you really want to test, the player must either remove the mega mods, zaz or ddi mode just to try out a set of new animations they see pop up on LL list as new. my first goal is to get it working so I can review and comment and see how much other mods work with DDi too as in the past, without gutting most of my build that took a year to keep very balanced with no CTD for a year from conflicts or stuff. as they say, mod it till it breaks!!!
galgat Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, ragnam said: I always like testing out new stuff, but if it takes away all the variety, however with some of the joking aside of others saying zaz ver 13 and ddi ver 22 , we might get stuck with one or the other. and when a new molder releases a new animation set you really want to test, the player must either remove the mega mods, zaz or ddi mode just to try out a set of new animations they see pop up on LL list as new. yes I am expecting that, it's just that this loss is so Huge, I mean 217 loss was not a big deal to me, I was prepared for that, but this is a really large loss for me, and Not very easy to except. as anyone can see I run a very lean load order, I only put in it what i think i will actually play with. Over the years I have found that downloading every single clothing, and armor mod is sort of counter productive, as I always have my favorite ones, and so I have gotten very selective about what I run. Mod Organizer has really help me with that, as i have multiple profile's that have no connection with the main folder, and keep thing's very nice and neat. Easy to back up, and totally different skyrim.ini and config files for every one of them. For me it is a true blessing when running and testing so many mods.
ragnam Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 Just now, galgat said: yes I am expecting that, it's just that this loss is so Huge, I mean 217 loss was not a big deal to me, I was prepared for that, but this is a really large loss for me, and Not very easy to except. as anyone can see I run a very lean load order, I only put in it what i think i will actually play with. Over the years I have found that downloading every single clothing, and armor mod is sort of counter productive, as I always have my favorite ones, and so I have gotten very selective about what I run. Mod Organizer has really help me with that, as i have multiple profile's that have no connection with the main folder, and keep thing's very mice and neat. Easy to back up, and totally different skyrim.ini and config files for every one of them. For me it is a true blessing when running and testing so many mods. Same here, I just backed up my archive 230 gigs (took me 10.5 hrs to back a external back up) , I had like 750 mods in my NMM and 385 mods running at 253 plugins, and yes I fell victim to grabbing every cloth/armor mod too at one time some mods are my own made ones or projects I am part of. so having the most popular mods installed helps me see any potential conflicts before we release or while testing them behind the scenes. DDi will be a must have, but zaz is too
galgat Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Reesewow said: Sounds like a reasonable analogy, which to kind of attempt to answer @galgat - I don't think anyone could explain exactly why you are seeing the specific numbers you are without being an expert in Skyrim's engine and behavior files and also having unlimited access to your particular setup. Why you are losing that exact capacity on upgrading to 4.1 probably depends on more factors than just the number of animations added by DD's upgrade, or even their type. For instance, it would be interesting if you ran the same subjective experiment on an AA adding mod like PCEA2 or FNIS Sexy Moves and see if adding those mods has a similar effect on "max" animation counts, but I don't think it would necessarily be a good use of your time. However, unless someone finds a specific "bug" in DD that is causing extra FNIS load issues, I think at this point we just have to understand that numbers don't matter as much understanding a crash = "too much". Remember that talking about anything over 10k is already into FORE's "danger zone" and if he had stuck to his guns and never offered FNIS XXL we wouldn't have the benefit of trying to squash a few hundered extra animations in between load orders. But the numbers do matter to all of us, I mean that is a troublesome thing, we are pretty much all here because we like adult entertainment, and long ago left games like Mario, and ( but I still do play those some on and emulator ). My thoughts are if i lose 1600 animations to this DDI version what will happen next version.. it does concern me. And I do look at where things are going. I hope it is a bug that can be found, because this trend would ruin a lot of fun mod's.
Reesewow Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, galgat said: But the numbers do matter to all of us, I mean that is a troublesome thing, we are pretty much all here because we like adult entertainment, and long ago left games like Mario, and ( but I still do play those some on and emulator ). My thoughts are if i lose 1600 animations to this DDI version what will happen next version.. it does concern me. And I do look at where things are going. I hope it is a bug that can be found, because this trend would ruin a lot of fun mod's. Concern is fine, but I'd say it is safe to assume that nobody here has an answer for you. At least not now. Possibly someone will come up with an answer in the days and weeks ahead but we're kind of beating a dead horse here, since the DD team has already directly replied to your post and no new information has show up yet to help offer a clear picture of the problem. You've said you are a MO user, so at the very least you have the option of multiple profiles with different sets of animation mods. As you say we all like adult entertainment, so you'll have to decide if 4.1 is worth the lighter load order or not. Hopefully someone comes up with a work around or at least a clearer understanding of the issue, but us filling the thread with the same issue over and over won't speed that up. Just my 2c.
ragnam Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 seleceted default both choices ddi 4.0 Reading DD V4.0.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 472 alternate animations) ... Reading DD2 V4.0.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ... Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ... ddi 4.1 Reading DD V4.0.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 493 alternate animations) ... Reading DD2 V4.0.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ... Reading DD3 V4.1.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 102 alternate animations) ... Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ... increased 122 alternate animations --- totals 4.0 was Alternate Animation mods: 6 sets: 75 total groups: 255 added file slots: 2386 alternate files: 1544 9305 animations for 49 mods successfully included (character) 1612 animations for 5 mods and 38 creatures successfully included. 4.1 is Alternate Animation mods: 7 sets: 89 total groups: 353 added file slots: 3163 alternate files: 1667 9522 animations for 50 mods successfully included (character) 1612 animations for 5 mods and 38 creatures successfully included. ------I see it as a 700 ish increase to added file slots alternate animations increased just 123 added 14 new groups added 100 total groups ? total groups of what does this mean? added file slots: 700ish << Q. what are file slots? that was the largest jump 700 is a huge number, so if I selected the choices default, it went up 123 alternate animations with 700 animation files or slots they take up in like SL ? can someone explain what added file slots are?
a6b7c899 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 In case it helps anyone, Milk Mod Economy's soft DDI integration was causing CTD issues for me on loading old save games after installing DDI 4.1. Trying a new games would start, but MME would blow up during initialization and prevent other mods from installing correctly and cause CTD on attempting to load any save file created even off new games. I had to pull it out of my load order to get things working again, after which both new and old saves loaded correctly. Also, the armbinders, elbowbinders and pet suit really do need a bit of bodyslide love...
MrEsturk Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 8 hours ago, Lute said: If you're running Slaverun Reloaded the implementation of the crawling animation in the MCM menu breaks this as it forces either the default idles or the crawling idles. If you comment out any lines mentioning 'crawl' in SLV_PeriodicCheck.psc and recompile it'll fix it, or you can wait for a bugfix. On an unrelated note, I still need help with my offset bound animation issue; could somebody at least please link me to a 4.0 changelog? Yep that was the cause it seems. Thank you. Strange that it didn't start happening until I install the most recent build of Slaverun. The previous version of Slaverun I was using had the crawl option yet never triggered that glitch. Good old Skyrim trolling me again...
Piiska Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said: I'm not sure which 12k limit you're refering to - afaik that was never a Skyrim limit but one of FNIS - which is gone at least if you use the XXl version, and i believe 12k is outdated quite a while now regardless of the version. Been using XXl since years now, though, no idea where the limit is for other versions. For testing you might remove any mod that uses AA sets except DD and see how many SLAL packs you can add then. Like PCEA, FNIS sexy move, probably some Nexus mods like that TK dodge mod or similars. Nope, it's more or less the game's limit. The 20k limit on FNIS XXL just means that FNIS itself can load 20k animations. That doesn't mean that the game supports the same amount. People confuse these things and I believe that's why fore originally hesitated to increase the limits of FNIS. Now, we don't know exactly how many animations the game can handle but we know that when it comes to FNIS, 12k there is some indicator of a limit that the game can handle. And even then FNIS may not count the animations correctly, at least there has been discussions about that as well. BUT in any case when you reach 12k character animations on FNIS, It seems to be Skyrim's limit. Might not be exactly 12k but around that point. It is strange that while DDi 4.1 adds only 270? animations, it seems like it adds way more because now we have to drop from 12k animations to around 10400. It feels like these 270 animations are somehow being read as 1600+. Or maybe there is something else on top of the animations that cause CTD, given enough animations. I tried to uninstall FNIS Sexy Move when I was around 10400 but that didn't work either so it would seem to be about animations and not AA sets but again I don't know for sure and this needs a deeper look.
Nazzzgul666 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 8 hours ago, Supertin said: It's 14 for each. Splitting them up differently or shuffling the used slots around makes no difference. So yes that's 42, and it will stay at 42 most likely forever. 6 hours ago, ragnam said: seleceted default both choices ddi 4.0 Reading DD V4.0.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 472 alternate animations) ... Reading DD2 V4.0.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ... Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ... ddi 4.1 Reading DD V4.0.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 493 alternate animations) ... Reading DD2 V4.0.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ... Reading DD3 V4.1.0 ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 102 alternate animations) ... Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ... Wait, that means for the upgrade to DD4.1 you're already using 56 sets. Might that be the point where something went wrong? Since Supertin said 42 would be enough forever AND that the DD3 set is the only one where it reads 4.1...
t.ara Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 Why should skyrim have any type of animation-limit??? ...-has there been a secret wish to let the next animator for an object drive into trouble, because the overall animation pool´s limit is peaked?! There´s far enough headroom available, concerning FNIS.
Nazzzgul666 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, t.ara said: Why should skyrim have any type of animation-limit??? ...-has there been a secret wish to let the next animator for an object drive into trouble, because the overall animation pool´s limit is peaked?! There´s far enough headroom available, concerning FNIS. Short answer: technical reasons, not considering mods would ever break that limit (vs "this has to work on PCs and consoles in 2011"). Which may sound dumb and unrealistic at first, but if you consider that there is a string count limit at 65k... THAT is a really dumb limit. For animations i can somehow understand it since Beth might not have thought about sex (or devious) animations or even if they did not expected about it as the big thing it is now. Longer answer: probably data types. If you define a variable, array, whatever, you have to set a data type and all of them have a limit. And in general it's good advice to use one that is big enough to take what should go in, but not more because that space will be reserved no matter if it's used. If you just say i want 99 trizillion possible entries for everything, we as users would need something like 99 Fantasticbyte RAM. It's possible to define your own data types and the limit they use, but it's work and well... i admit i can understand a limit for animations. There are only that much ways one can run through Skyrim, or how to kill dragons, nobody would need thousands installed in one game, right? Except of course somebody creates dozens of items that change the way you move and hundreds of sex animations.^^ I'm not that much the expert on this and there might be other reasons aside from data types, but in the end memory management is most likely the reason to all of them. Be it RAM, HDD space or CPU cache. Considering that Skyrim was released in 2011 and people still manage to push current hardware towards it's limits... i'd say they made some bad decisions in parts but didn't fuck it up entirely. 1
fore Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 45 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said: Short answer: technical reasons, not considering mods would ever break that limit (vs "this has to work on PCs and consoles in 2011"). Which may sound dumb and unrealistic at first, but if you consider that there is a string count limit at 65k... THAT is a really dumb limit. For animations i can somehow understand it since Beth might not have thought about sex (or devious) animations or even if they did not expected about it as the big thing it is now. Longer answer: probably data types. If you define a variable, array, whatever, you have to set a data type and all of them have a limit. And in general it's good advice to use one that is big enough to take what should go in, but not more because that space will be reserved no matter if it's used. If you just say i want 99 trizillion possible entries for everything, we as users would need something like 99 Fantasticbyte RAM. It's possible to define your own data types and the limit they use, but it's work and well... i admit i can understand a limit for animations. There are only that much ways one can run through Skyrim, or how to kill dragons, nobody would need thousands installed in one game, right? Except of course somebody creates dozens of items that change the way you move and hundreds of sex animations.^^ I'm not that much the expert on this and there might be other reasons aside from data types, but in the end memory management is most likely the reason to all of them. Be it RAM, HDD space or CPU cache. Considering that Skyrim was released in 2011 and people still manage to push current hardware towards it's limits... i'd say they made some bad decisions in parts but didn't fuck it up entirely. I totally agree with you. It has nothing to do with animation count, it's a general memory management issue. That's why I can load so many more animations than most of you (I hardly have anything else). THat's why sheson's fix has worked so well for at least the first few thousands of animations. Crash fixes, ENB boost. Behavior files are XML. They have to be read somewhere. The 10,000s lines of data FNIS is adding to the animation(set)datasinglefile.txt as well. That all was simply not foreseen by the Bethesda designer, and notincluded into their tests. 3
Piiska Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 Memory management makes a lot of sense. Question is what in this 4.1 update is causing the need for most of us to drop so many animations until the game works again?
galgat Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, Piiska said: Memory management makes a lot of sense. Question is what in this 4.1 update is causing the need for most of us to drop so many animations until the game works again? Yes there is something wrong, some where 217 animations added by 4.1, and I have to drop almost 1600 animations. Something is not right. Right now what i am seeing the difference between 4.0 and 4.1 is I have 1600 less animations with 4.1, and I have 1600 more with 4.0. Now which would you want to run?
Cirena Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 I have a crash when I installed the new version of this mod. I linked it to the XXL version of FNIS as when I install over 9700 animations the game will crash upon loading. I use the Sexlab animation loader and mods that use that to add more animations. Is there a solution to this?
galgat Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Piiska said: Nope, it's more or less the game's limit. The 20k limit on FNIS XXL just means that FNIS itself can load 20k animations. That doesn't mean that the game supports the same amount. People confuse these things and I believe that's why fore originally hesitated to increase the limits of FNIS. Now, we don't know exactly how many animations the game can handle but we know that when it comes to FNIS, 12k there is some indicator of a limit that the game can handle. And even then FNIS may not count the animations correctly, at least there has been discussions about that as well. BUT in any case when you reach 12k character animations on FNIS, It seems to be Skyrim's limit. Might not be exactly 12k but around that point. It is strange that while DDi 4.1 adds only 270? animations, it seems like it adds way more because now we have to drop from 12k animations to around 10400. It feels like these 270 animations are somehow being read as 1600+. Or maybe there is something else on top of the animations that cause CTD, given enough animations. I tried to uninstall FNIS Sexy Move when I was around 10400 but that didn't work either so it would seem to be about animations and not AA sets but again I don't know for sure and this needs a deeper look. on the FNIS DDI has a soft dependency the esp can be off ( not removed as MO will do, but just unchecked ). but the script's are needed or mostly I believe for compatibility.
galgat Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, Cirena said: I have a crash when I installed the new version of this mod. I linked it to the XXL version of FNIS as when I install over 9700 animations the game will crash upon loading. I use the Sexlab animation loader and mods that use that to add more animations. Is there a solution to this? is the and instant crash, in your log file does it ever reach the line "VM is Thawing" Line? If not then you may have to many animation's, and will have to reduce some. I had to reduce mine by around 1600 animations to get DDI4.1 playable. but with DDI4.0 I can add the 1600 back.
Nazzzgul666 Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 47 minutes ago, fore said: I totally agree with you. It has nothing to do with animation count, it's a general memory management issue. That's why I can load so many more animations than most of you (I hardly have anything else). THat's why sheson's fix has worked so well for at least the first few thousands of animations. Crash fixes, ENB boost. Behavior files are XML. They have to be read somewhere. The 10,000s lines of data FNIS is adding to the animation(set)datasinglefile.txt as well. That all was simply not foreseen by the Bethesda designer, and notincluded into their tests. I'm honored that somebody who actually has some clue instead of just my mainly theoretical half knowlegde agrees with me. Just out of interest, can you confirm or deny a hard limit on 12k animations for human actors/creatures each?
t.ara Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Nazzzgul666 said: Short answer: technical reasons, not considering mods would ever break that limit (vs "this has to work on PCs and consoles in 2011"). Which may sound dumb and unrealistic at first, but if you consider that there is a string count limit at 65k... THAT is a really dumb limit. For animations i can somehow understand it since Beth might not have thought about sex (or devious) animations or even if they did not expected about it as the big thing it is now. Longer answer: probably data types. If you define a variable, array, whatever, you have to set a data type and all of them have a limit. And in general it's good advice to use one that is big enough to take what should go in, but not more because that space will be reserved no matter if it's used. If you just say i want 99 trizillion possible entries for everything, we as users would need something like 99 Fantasticbyte RAM. It's possible to define your own data types and the limit they use, but it's work and well... i admit i can understand a limit for animations. There are only that much ways one can run through Skyrim, or how to kill dragons, nobody would need thousands installed in one game, right? Except of course somebody creates dozens of items that change the way you move and hundreds of sex animations.^^ I'm not that much the expert on this and there might be other reasons aside from data types, but in the end memory management is most likely the reason to all of them. Be it RAM, HDD space or CPU cache. Considering that Skyrim was released in 2011 and people still manage to push current hardware towards it's limits... i'd say they made some bad decisions in parts but didn't fuck it up entirely. I meant it a little different way: IF skyrim would have it´s need of 100000 animations for the gameplay (in 2011), it would have got them. And that´s not the question of memory, instead only the question of technology. But it has been not the focus of skyrim´s development to have such a huge pool of animations at least. The game has been kept light-weighted, - maybe they wanted this game to become also an online game-from beginning. Lot of games today add thousands of new animations by updates, every month.
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