Worst COVID-19 scare, how close were you to getting infected?

[Andukar]

15 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

Every medical expert in the world is lying? You evidence for this would be what?

Not every physician talks about coronavirus at all

[winny257]

15 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

True, 100% of all deaths in my city had "pre-existing" conditions. 100%. None have died that are healthy. I WOULD like to know what those conditions were, though.

it die the people which the countries have built up, namely the old ones, which actually have earned their retirement!
also here in Germany die mainly pensioners.

[Grey Cloud]

14 hours ago, gregathit said:

There simply is zero proof of this. 

That would be proving a negative and to prove it one would have to have a non-lockdown control group. Would you volunteer? I have already stated, the virus spread across the globe before lockdown was introduced.

 

14 hours ago, gregathit said:

Remember, there were supposed to be millions dead at this point.

Which is why lockdown was introduced - to try to stop this.

 

14 hours ago, gregathit said:

It is an election year

In the US it is but not in the majority of the world and the majority of the world is still doing lockdown.

 

14 hours ago, gregathit said:

If folks want to hide in their homes

It's not about hiding in your home, it is about not spreading the virus.

 

6 hours ago, Trykz said:

And again, we're in mid-July.

This is an excellent point. This virus has gone through spring and is now working its way through summer. The regular annual flu works autumn and winter.

 

3 hours ago, gregathit said:

That is what I am am advocating for.  The rights of the individual. 

The right of the individual to infect others? Let's do away with drink-driving legislation then.

 

2 hours ago, Tyrant99 said:

'Leave it to the Governors'.

We have almost the opposite here in the UK. The government have used the phrase 'trusting the common sense of the British people' at least twice. This is the sensible British people who did the weekly 'clap for carers' for several weeks before the penny dropped that the mass gatherings were probably not such a good idea after all.

 

2 hours ago, Tyrant99 said:

And this is only one example of a long list of mind-boggling stupidity and inconsistency throughout this whole situation.

We can give any country a run for its money on this. We have an entire cabinet working on it.

 

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I love a doctor that keeps telling me I'm in good physical condition and have nothing to worry about.

That reminded me of the old Tommy Cooper joke.

Tommy goes to the doctor's worried that his eyesight is going. The doc takes him outside and asks 'can you see the sun?'

Tommy replies 'yes'.

The doctor asks 'how far do you want to see?'

[Tron91]

If you want to analyze the effect of lock-down on the spread of the disease take a look at India's figures during the full lock-down period, and then when lock-down was partially lifted. At this rate, USA will be toppled soon in the worldometer.info list.

 

 

[gregathit]

45 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

That would be proving a negative and to prove it one would have to have a non-lockdown control group. Would you volunteer? I have already stated, the virus spread across the globe before lockdown was introduced.

Absolutely YES.  I would.  However, I don't need to.  Again, South Dekota and Sweden did not lock down.  And look at the superb handling of our hospitals:

Spoiler

 

 

46 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Which is why lockdown was introduced - to try to stop this.

Again, this was based on information that turned out to be horribly incorrect.  This unfortunately could have been averted had china not decided to be a dick to the rest of the world.  Turns out it wasn't needed.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I'm not mad about past decisions.  They were made on the best available info at the time.  What I am against is the continued push of this nonsense.  We now know that we didn't need to do what we did.  At least not as radically as we did.

52 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

In the US it is but not in the majority of the world and the majority of the world is still doing lockdown.

I'm specifically talking about the US and I made that abundantly clear.  

55 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

It's not about hiding in your home, it is about not spreading the virus.

Wrong.  The virus, like all viruses will spread no matter what we do.  It was about not overwhelming the hospitals.  Did anyone shut down when H1N1 was going around?  Come on.  

58 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

The right of the individual to infect others? Let's do away with drink-driving legislation then.

Straw man alert.  Dude, you can do better than this.  I've seen you.  Either you are just trolling me or you don't have your heart in this one. 

[KoolHndLuke]

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

It was about not overwhelming the hospitals.

Well, this seems to be a an ongoing problem as infection rates have started surging again. The govt has sent more military medical personal to help in some "hot spots" I've read. But, yeah it was never about stopping the spread and they knew most people might be infected eventually- that's what "flattening the curve" was all about. When those makeshift hospitals they've been setting up everywhere start to fill, then I think we can safely assume things are getting much worse. All I know is that I am doing everything I can to not end up a patient anytime soon- which is relatively easy since I don't need to go out for anything at all. I feel sorry for those that have no choice.

 

If this is and has just all been lies in the most elaborate ruse ever conceived, then I'd like to compliment all the players for a very convincing acting performance.

[Eadoo]

17 hours ago, gregathit said:

We know that we have been lied to (don't wear masks, now do).  We know that it isn't as bad as they said (were supposed to have several million dead by now).  We know that the whole thing has been politicized and is a power grab by politicians.  

How do we *know* this?  Would it be reasonable to say that we were "lied to" about gravity prior to Newton?  Prior to Einstein?  Or is it accurate to say that science is a process that develops knowledge, and frequently revises itself?

 

Who, precisely, has grabbed power?  As far as I can tell, all of the same people are in office.

[gregathit]

23 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

How do we *know* this?  Would it be reasonable to say that we were "lied to" about gravity prior to Newton?  Prior to Einstein?  Or is it accurate to say that science is a process that develops knowledge, and frequently revises itself?

 

Who, precisely, has grabbed power?  As far as I can tell, all of the same people are in office.

Can you read?  I clearly stated the lies that we were told.  The lies are in the parentheses.  And I'm calling BS on the process nonsense.  Did they announce they were wrong?  Did they admit they had made a mistake?  Are they advocating why they did what they did and why they are repeating those mistakes.  Use some actual logic and common sense dude.  Science is based on facts and evidence.  So where is the evidence.  You don't find it because the facts and evidence don't fit the narrative of what they are trying to sell.  Go back and read some of my past references to medical journals talking about the futility of wearing masks as just one example.

23 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

Who, precisely, has grabbed power?  As far as I can tell, all of the same people are in office.

If you can't wrap your head around the fact that in the US we have rights.  Those rights are sacred.  They can't be trampled.  The government has no power to take them away or infringe upon them.  They have been trampling and infringing the fuck out of them.  This is so blatantly apparent and obvious that I can't understand how you can't see that.  Not to mention that these same government officials don't obey their own authoritarian edicts.  I assume you know how to use google and can look this up.  It isn't hard to find multiple versions of this.  They are granting themselves powers that are not theirs to have.

[Eadoo]

14 minutes ago, gregathit said:

Can you read?  I clearly stated the lies that we were told.  The lies are in the parentheses.  And I'm calling BS on the process nonsense.  Did they announce they were wrong?  Did they admit they had made a mistake?  Are they advocating why they did what they did and why they are repeating those mistakes.  Use some actual logic and common sense dude.  

If you can't wrap your head around the fact that in the US we have rights.  Those rights are sacred.  They can't be trampled.  The government has no power to take them away or infringe upon them.  They have been trampling and infringing the fuck out of them.  This is so blatantly apparent and obvious that I can't understand how you can't see that.  Not to mention that these same government officials don't obey their own authoritarian edicts.  I assume you know how to use google and can look this up.  It isn't hard to find multiple versions of this.  They are granting themselves powers that are not theirs to have.

You don't have to be "wrong" to change course.  The common punching bag is Fauci.  Here you go.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/502890-fauci-why-the-public-wasnt-told-to-wear-masks

I'm not sure where in the Constitution I'm granted the right not to wear a mask.  Or, perhaps, where in the Constitution my own rights not to have to interact with biological threat vectors (you) are taken away.

Here's a picture of my own Governor, who has mandated face masks, wearing a face mask.  There are plenty of these images to go around.

Hopefully I was able to help you settle two of your major issues.

[gregathit]

23 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Well, this seems to be a an ongoing problem as infection rates have started surging again.

Surging per what?  Again, no one knows accurately how many have had it and how many really have either had it or currently are infected.  The true numbers could be 10 times what is being reported.  I've never in my life ran home and hid under the bed when the flu was going around before.  Why would I now?  You can't hide from this.  You can't stop it.  Even if you closed the world again it won't stop anything.  It is the downside of where we are today.  I don't like it anymore than anyone else.  What is the alternative? 

 

Ignore case counts.  They are meaningless.  Pay attention to ICU usage and excess death rates.  Those are your two indicators.

[Kendo 2]

My 'big scare' now is that wearing a fucking mask is a permanent thing.  It will never go away.

[gregathit]

22 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

You don't have to be "wrong" to change course.  The common punching bag is Fauci.  Here you go.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/502890-fauci-why-the-public-wasnt-told-to-wear-masks

I'm not sure where in the Constitution I'm granted the right not to wear a mask.  Or, perhaps, where in the Constitution my own rights not to have to interact with biological threat vectors (you) are taken away.

Here's a picture of my own Governor, who has mandated face masks, wearing a face mask.  There are plenty of these images to go around.

 

Hopefully I was able to help you settle two of your major issues.

Your governor is an idiot.  California is bleeding folks who are running from him and his cronies failing policies.  If you are going to pick someone to prop up your weak ass argument, at least pick someone who isn't a complete joke.  Seriously.  

 

You can't mandate mask wearing when there is no science behind it.  That should be common sense.  When you allow elected officials to start issuing edicts you are already on the slope sliding towards tyranny.  If you want to have mandatory masks, it should be taken up by the legislator of the state and/or by congress at the national level.  It obviously won't pass mustard if they went that route as there just isn't enough conclusive data to prove that it prevents anything.  Point of fact, there is more and more data that it is a waste of time for folks to wear them.

 

If you doubt me on masks, why don't you explain despite the fact that many are requiring them, and couple that with social distancing, but that the virus is STILL SPREADING.  (Mike drop.)  Because masks don't work.  A properly fitted and PROPERLY adjusted N95 rated respirator (or better) does work.  But folks don't know how to do any of that.

 

Hopefully I was able to get you to recognize that the shit your governor is shoveling........well........its actual shit.  

[Tron91]

5 minutes ago, Kendo 2 said:

My 'big scare' now is that wearing a fucking mask is a permanent thing.  It will never go away.

Better invest in a mask making company then. And if you got some cool mask designs, start copyrighting them.

[Tron91]

@gregathit

 

How about this? https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0714-americans-to-wear-masks.html

 

Maybe the spike in cases is due to people who are living in a state of denial, like you?

[27X]

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

Dude, you can do better than this.

When was this? All I've ever seen is semantics and the utter refusal to read anything isn't a pie chart to get a personal objective evaluation. Not an ounce of research.

 

53 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

infection rates have started surging again.

Called a buddy who's an EMT in Daytona, the place where CBS has used the literal phrase "brink of collapse" three days in a row. ICUs/3 are at 60% on average, virtually every patient is obese or diabetic or both. Either 60% or brink of collapse is accurate. They are not both accurate. Granted this is one city, and the information is 100% anecdotal... but it's the 16th. This wave of absolute DEATH that should be sweeping the southern states should have started almost a week ago. The south is fat as fuck frankly and the closer to the lower coast you get the fatter people get, people with the very epitome of "underlying condition". Where is this death toll tripling or quadrupling. Almost to a person the people that have died are overweight and either asthmatic or diabetic, or in one unfortunate case, both.

 

No money is being put aside to help these people, no contingencies are being assembled at the state level to do any safeguarding of either commerce or people alike, protocols are not being updated as new information that can be replicated reliably is found (as greg pointed out, why the fuck are beaches and open air areas closed in daylight hours, this is actually where people need to fucking be).

 

Both sides of the administrative fence are trying to use human suffering to get a presidential election handed to them and they think they can draw it out five more months, and the economy and infrastructure isn't going to last that long.
 

[Tron91]

8 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

 I have seen more full respirator masks being sold by Chinese distributors. Those usually take 3-5 months to arrive. (last I checked)

Better not trust those!

[Tron91]

34 minutes ago, 27X said:

 

Called a buddy who's an EMT in Daytona, the place where CBS has used the literal phrase "brink of collapse" three days in a row. ICUs/3 are at 60% on average, virtually every patient is obese or diabetic or both. Either 60% or brink of collapse is accurate.

 

Did you ask your buddy, is he/she under stress? Those health workers are people too, they can't work 24/7 without any period of rest. If they are starting to feel stressed out, that's where the problem starts. So, you don't have to hit 100% ICU bed fill up for a full collapse. It will start at a lower percentage. They work as a team and when one member can't do his/her work properly due to stress, the problem escalates pretty fast.

 

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-020-02926-2

[Grey Cloud]

3 hours ago, Andukar said:

Not every physician talks about coronavirus at all

Spoken to them all have you?

What is your point? You still haven't come up with a shred of evidence for your initial comment.

[Eadoo]

1 hour ago, gregathit said:

Your governor is an idiot.  California is bleeding folks who are running from him and his cronies failing policies.  If you are going to pick someone to prop up your weak ass argument, at least pick someone who isn't a complete joke.  Seriously.  

 

You can't mandate mask wearing when there is no science behind it.  That should be common sense.  When you allow elected officials to start issuing edicts you are already on the slope sliding towards tyranny.  If you want to have mandatory masks, it should be taken up by the legislator of the state and/or by congress at the national level.  It obviously won't pass mustard if they went that route as there just isn't enough conclusive data to prove that it prevents anything.  Point of fact, there is more and more data that it is a waste of time for folks to wear them.

 

If you doubt me on masks, why don't you explain despite the fact that many are requiring them, and couple that with social distancing, but that the virus is STILL SPREADING.  (Mike drop.)  Because masks don't work.  A properly fitted and PROPERLY adjusted N95 rated respirator (or better) does work.  But folks don't know how to do any of that.

 

Hopefully I was able to get you to recognize that the shit your governor is shoveling........well........its actual shit.  

Ah, but that wasn't your argument.  Your argument was that the people who are mandating public health measures aren't observing those same measures themselves.  To apply your own logic from only earlier today, do you now acknowledge that you were wrong on that point?  You seem to have accepted my assertion (and evidence) that the law makers ARE applying their own rules.

 

There are still a lot of people (like you?) that are still not wearing masks and gathering in groups.  Your mike drop moment sort of falls apart because that's the easy thing for me to point to as to why the virus is still spreading.

[Jexsam]

25 minutes ago, gregathit said:

If you doubt me on masks, why don't you explain despite the fact that many are requiring them, and couple that with social distancing, but that the virus is STILL SPREADING. 

Two main reasons.

 

One, the masks are intended to slow spread, not stop it.  This, in conjunction with social distancing where possible, is intended to accomplish what we refer to as "flattening the curve", spreading out the infection to keep the numbers of simultaneous infection low so as not to overwhelm existing infrastructure.  The mask accomplishes this by reducing the amount of microscopic fluid droplets you exhale that could potentially be inhaled or otherwise infect others.  If you believed the masks were intended to outright stop spread, you were misled.

Two, when so many people decide they don't want to follow guidelines to slow a virus' spread, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the virus... spreads.  I feel like this should be self-explanatory.

[Grey Cloud]

3 hours ago, Tron91 said:

If you want to analyze the effect of lock-down on the spread of the disease take a look at India's figures during the full lock-down period, and then when lock-down was partially lifted. At this rate, USA will be toppled soon in the worldometer.info list.

 

 

I don't disagree with what you say but do you think that a country with a population in excess of 1 billion people, that is piss poor and has huge expanses of rural areas is in a position to come up with any sort of accurate figures at this stage?

[Tron91]

4 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I don't disagree with what you say but do you think that a country with a population in excess of 1 billion people, that is piss poor and has huge expanses of rural areas is in a position to come up with any sort of accurate figures at this stage?

What you say is true. After about a month or so, none will keep track of numbers here. The rural areas were actually sanctuaries, as people didn't come to these places for work, so they were sort of protected. But, when the Govt. re-opened the traffic for workers, the virus started to spread to every nook and corner as people from cities returned to their homes. Simple reason, they didn't follow the protocols established, like wearing masks, hygiene, etc. There are still a shitload of dumb-asses here who think that they will not be infected and don't wear masks. I survived the scare of getting infected twice because of Mask and Hygiene. At first, in our work place we were a bit lenient on the distancing measures as there were no returnees to the locality who could be infected. Later on when traffics were opened up, we became very strict. No Masks, no Entry.

[Grey Cloud]

22 minutes ago, Jexsam said:

Two main reasons.

 

One, the masks are intended to slow spread, not stop it.  This, in conjunction with social distancing where possible, is intended to accomplish what we refer to as "flattening the curve", spreading out the infection to keep the numbers of simultaneous infection low so as not to overwhelm existing infrastructure.  The mask accomplishes this by reducing the amount of microscopic fluid droplets you exhale that could potentially be inhaled or otherwise infect others.  If you believed the masks were intended to outright stop spread, you were misled.

Two, when so many people decide they don't want to follow guidelines to slow a virus' spread, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the virus... spreads.  I feel like this should be self-explanatory.

Excellent post to which I would add that the virus also spreads by touch/contact so wearing masks is only part of the story. Lockdown also decreases the spread by touch/contact from e.g. door handles and handrails etc.

It was some weeks ago now so I don't know if the info has changed but I read that the virus can stay active for up to 3 days while sitting on some surfaces.

[Grey Cloud]

Don't now if you can get this where you live but:

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2020/07/12/shop-sign-of-the-day-2/

[winny257]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/12/donald-trump-finally-wears-mask-public-covid-19-rampages-across/