Worst COVID-19 scare, how close were you to getting infected?

[Eadoo]

3 hours ago, Kendo 2 said:

My 'big scare' now is that wearing a fucking mask is a permanent thing.  It will never go away.

It could be.  Several Asian countries had fairly permanent mask-wearing as expected cultural elements.

But...that's not mandatory.  There's no reason to believe that mandatory mask wearing will be a permanent aspect of our culture going forward.

I suspect, however, that we'll see much more common voluntary mask wearing.

[winny257]

23 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

It could be.  Several Asian countries had fairly permanent mask-wearing as expected cultural elements.

But...that's not mandatory.  There's no reason to believe that mandatory mask wearing will be a permanent aspect of our culture going forward.

I suspect, however, that we'll see much more common voluntary mask wearing.

in China are masks for decades the rule, but not because of Corona, these people know nothing else!
a normal, mask-free life, unthinkable. 

Spoiler

 

[27X]

3 hours ago, Tron91 said:

Did you ask your buddy, is he/she under stress? Those health workers are people too, they can't work 24/7 without any period of rest. If they are starting to feel stressed out, that's where the problem starts. So, you don't have to hit 100% ICU bed fill up for a full collapse. It will start at a lower percentage. They work as a team and when one member can't do his/her work properly due to stress, the problem escalates pretty fast.

 

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-020-02926-2

No, because unlike NY and NJ they pulled emergency staff from smaller towns where there basically is no covid and have them on rotating shifts to supplement the staff already there, the same thing they do every year when a shit ton of scruffy horny sweaty bikers show up.

[FauxFurry]

Despite what anyone claims, no one really knows just yet nor what it would entail even if they were infected.

 

[Eadoo]

14 minutes ago, winny257 said:

in China are masks for decades the rule, but not because of Corona, these people know nothing else!
a normal, mask-free life, unthinkable. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Interesting.

My own experience is with Japan.  I saw a lot of masks there.  I also saw a lot of bare faces.  No one thought much of it either way.

[Grey Cloud]

18 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

Interesting

They've been wearing them for in China because of air pollution.

[Grey Cloud]

2 hours ago, winny257 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/12/donald-trump-finally-wears-mask-public-covid-19-rampages-across/

Isn't that the guy who said, a few months back, that the US 'pretty much had it under control' and that he wasn't going to wear a mask?

He's not wearing it because of the virus, it's to stop him putting his foot in his mouth.

[Eadoo]

I guess I'm just going to leave this here for the benefit of some of our cohort and dismiss myself from this conversation.  Have fun, everyone!

 

[FauxFurry]

5 hours ago, Eadoo said:

I guess I'm just going to leave this here for the benefit of some of our cohort and dismiss myself from this conversation.  Have fun, everyone!

 

Some people were wrong while others may have known better but were less than truthful, causing others to be misled. Who is who?

 

[gregathit]

12 hours ago, Tron91 said:

@gregathit

 

How about this? https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0714-americans-to-wear-masks.html

 

Maybe the spike in cases is due to people who are living in a state of denial, like you?

Denial of the fact that there is no science proving that wearing a mask does jack shit.  Or is it just denial to be a good little mindless sheep doing whatever the idiots in charge tell you.  So if they say to start wearing your underwear on the outside of your pants to prevent X, Y or Z you'll just go right along with it right?  Do as you please.  I'm not trying to get folks to stop wearing masks.  Wear it if you want.  I'm just saying I won't conform if there is not a good reason to do so.  A reason that involves science.

 

As to the rise in cases being because of me.  That is a cop out and you know it.  You are faced with an inescapable fact and you instead want to play the blame game.  Typical.  I'll just call you what you are.  Fact denier.  

[gregathit]

11 hours ago, Eadoo said:

Ah, but that wasn't your argument.  Your argument was that the people who are mandating public health measures aren't observing those same measures themselves.  To apply your own logic from only earlier today, do you now acknowledge that you were wrong on that point?  You seem to have accepted my assertion (and evidence) that the law makers ARE applying their own rules.

What the fuck are you smoking?  That makes zero fucking sense.  NO.  Those dumbass officials AND the media are NOT following their own guidelines.  Do you not know how to use google?  It is so fucking easy to find cases of it.  The reporter in the fucking white house that took off her mask as soon as she thought the cameras stopped.  The governor of Michigan's husband that ignored the lockdown and travel ban to go clear across the state to mow the grass and hang out at their lake house.  The mayor of New York who ignored the lockdown to go walk in a park that was clear across town and he wasn't wearing a mask.  The media getting busted all over youtube because they weren't wearing masks or their camera crews weren't and on and on and on.  Stop watching CNN.  Broaden your horizon.

 

So, NO.  I was not wrong.  NO.  I don't accept your silly ass assertions or the one picture you produced as anything that even half-ass approaches as evidence.  FYI, "applying" doesn't mean the same thing as "obeying".  You can't even properly state your argument.  Which is unsurprising considering you thing Gavin is anything other than navel lint.

11 hours ago, Eadoo said:

There are still a lot of people (like you?) that are still not wearing masks and gathering in groups.  Your mike drop moment sort of falls apart because that's the easy thing for me to point to as to why the virus is still spreading.

Nope.  Mike drops stands.  Now you are a mike drop denier.  Or do you have a mike drop phobia?  Hard to tell.  You have no data on folks wearing masks or not wearing masks and thus can't "easily" do jack shit.  But applying common sense to your argument isn't something you appear to be good at.  Masks don't stop or slow the spread of the virus.  I'll continue to maintain that position until the SCIENCE tells me otherwise.

[gregathit]

12 hours ago, Jexsam said:

Two main reasons.

 

One, the masks are intended to slow spread, not stop it.  This, in conjunction with social distancing where possible, is intended to accomplish what we refer to as "flattening the curve", spreading out the infection to keep the numbers of simultaneous infection low so as not to overwhelm existing infrastructure.  The mask accomplishes this by reducing the amount of microscopic fluid droplets you exhale that could potentially be inhaled or otherwise infect others.  If you believed the masks were intended to outright stop spread, you were misled.

Sorry, that is bullshit.  Cloth masks are worthless.  Any mask that is not a PROPERLY fitted N95 respirator or better is a waste of time.  I'm not making that up.  Go back and read my early posts in this thread.  I linked to a bunch of medical science papers to back that up.  Hell, common sense should tell you this anyway.  You breathe and the cloth then becomes what?  Wet.  Moisture then wicks right through.  Man has known this for centuries.  That is why folks have been using cotton rope as a wick to drain water from behind masonry walls for freaking ever.  If moisture is going through the mask, then guess what else will.  I know that you can think and reason.  Do it.  Also, you know that most masks are ill fitting.  That or folks just don't take the time to properly put them on.  Want to see even a respirator fail, just have an idiot with a beard put one on.  

 

I'm on the fence about social distancing indoors.  Until we know exactly how the virus spreads, we don't know if this works.  I don't think standing 6 feet apart works for shit if we are in the same air conditioned room.  Unless that furnace has a HEPA filter, which few do, then chances are that the virus is all over that room.  The whole droplet only spread theory is under fire.  More and more studies are saying that the virus doesn't need a big droplet to spread.  I will say that I'm against big crowds in doors.  The 50 or less rule is probably a good rule of thumb.  I'm against closing beaches.  Social distancing from strangers outdoors is "possibly" ok.  But even then, if it is a windy day, does it really work?  We'll have to wait for the studies to tell us.  If the virus can live for 3 hours on a surface, it damn sure can live for 60 or 100 feet carried by wind.

12 hours ago, Jexsam said:

Two, when so many people decide they don't want to follow guidelines to slow a virus' spread, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the virus... spreads.  I feel like this should be self-explanatory.

Really?  So what is your proof that there are "so many" folks not wearing masks that are sick and spreading the virus.  Oh, you don't have any proof.  Of course you don't.  This is an assumption on your part and you should know what comes of ill considered assumptions.  The only thing that you said that is true is that viruses spread.  We can't do jack shit about that.  At least not right now.  Perhaps they will come up with a vaccine.  It won't be a cure all any more than getting the flu shot prevents you from getting the flu.  Your best defense is to keep off excess weight, get some sun (vitamin D), eat healthy, exercise and get plenty of rest.  That is what we should be telling folks.  That is were the focus should be.  Not a placebo like "wearing a mask".

This is right from the CDC's website:

Spoiler

Although evidence is limited for their effectiveness in preventing transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, either for source control or to reduce exposure, the wearing of masks by healthy persons may prevent potential asymptomatic or presymptomatic transmission.  

Link:  https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1498_article#:~:text=Although evidence is limited for,transmission (3).

Hum.  Limited evidence.  May prevent.  Those sound like guesses to me.

 

Also, you can catch the virus through your eyes.  Yep.  So if you are going to mask up, then you need to goggle up too.  It would be the epitome of silliness to do the one and ignore the other.

Spoiler

 

[KoolHndLuke]

My favorite part in all this is that the govnt may grant immunity to the companies that are rushing a vaccine and skipping important testing procedures. We'll get a vaccine that may partially prevent covid 19 with the side effect of causing cancer or a zombie apocalypse. 

 

And if many people included in the overall case count are those with covid antibodies, then that means that a large percentage of the numbers are recovered and no longer contagious. My guess is that many people have already been mildly sick or asymptomatic with covid and didn't know it and were not accounted for- meaning that the virus is really no more deadly than the common flu. The number of overall covid cases is higher and the actual covid related death count is much lower than what is being shown. Meanwhile every news outlet is doing their best to intentionally mislead and scare the shit outta everyone, just like they always do. They want things to fall apart because it will be the story of the century. They're not human. Politicians are too busy covering their asses to worry about actually setting guidelines that make sense based on all information available.

[Starbrow65]

15 hours ago, winny257 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/12/donald-trump-finally-wears-mask-public-covid-19-rampages-across/

Very becoming to him. Favours that warm, humane twinkle in his eyes. Also stylish how the colour matches the suit. Pity about the wig, though.

[Grey Cloud]

3 hours ago, Starbrow65 said:

Pity about the wig, though.

You're thinking that should have been blue too? Maybe the same blue as the tie? ?

[Starbrow65]

49 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

You're thinking that should have been blue too? Maybe the same blue as the tie? ?

Certainly not! But I grieve for the orange that was, which alas! is yielding to the grey to be. While I do appreciate the wigmaker's bow to the power of time over all of us, the old colouring would have provided a much more vivid contrast to the blue of mask and suit.

[Grey Cloud]

8 minutes ago, Starbrow65 said:

But I grieve for the orange that was, which alas! is yielding to the grey to be.

I'd noticed that over the last couple of weeks. Maybe that's what drinking cleaning products does to your hair. ?

I'm reminded of the old joke about Reagan - that his hair was the colour hair turns to after grey.

[RitualClarity]

On 7/3/2020 at 4:09 PM, Grey Cloud said:

This from the guy who said the virus didn't like sunlight while the virus is on the up in Texas, Florida and Arizona(?).

The virus like most virus don't like sunlight.. it will dry out the materials that they are riding on and likely kill them. However, that is virus that is free flowing outside of a body. There is a thing called SKIN that has the job to protect those things inside it from the Sun. 

On 7/3/2020 at 6:38 PM, Kendo 2 said:

Never exposed to it that I know of.  I don't know anyone who caught it; I don't know anyone who knows anyone who caught it...and I'm friends with the EMS chief for my county.  The seven cases we supposedly had mysteriously cured themselves when people started asking questions.  'Who has it?  Where did they go?'  Once people started digging into who the victims were the cases ceased-to-be.

Yes, there is lots of Covid panic that is going around.  For some reason a vested interest in inflating and spreading the fear.  Covid has serious issue with 1%~2% of the population. They are learning daily how to treat them and have moved on from the insane use of Ventilators for the majority of those with serious issues.  Many coming down now are recovering much more quicker than previous ones when this started. I think of it as a very serious FLU strain with a few extra compilations.  Potentially deadly for those that have contributing factors which is unusual for most flu.

On 7/5/2020 at 9:07 PM, Arcturus7777 said:

we should not be closed down, it is not polo, small pox, or any of the other really tough pandemics.  They keep posting more people have it, which is happening dur to more testing, but they never show what the death rate is in healthy people. Just try to scare people, so the can make stupid rules.  Like you can not buy seeds to plant your garden, or you can riot without a mask, but can not go to church, or local, you can walk around the grocery store with your family, but only one of you can go to the check out.

 

they should be putting out numbers we can trust for young and healthy vrs medical problems.  Around here, most the deaths are in nursing homes.

the intent that was original as I understand it ... the social distancing and mask are to help the hospitals maintain enough beds to handle those that get the serious version of Covid as well as the rest of their medical emergencies .. THAT IS IT....  closing down? I see many reports of plenty of beds in hospitals. NO problems with getting care... in fact I have two different appointments to go in for a consult and a procedure AT A HOSPITAL. This procedure requires an operating room and on occasion can have a complication which might require hospitalization for a few days. No problems. They have plenty of PRIVATE BEDS. Yep... they removed two bed rooms into singles. This SHRUNK THE TOTAL BEDS AVAILABLE HOWEVER, THE EQUIPMENT IS STILL PRESENT AND CAN BE MADE TO A 2 BED ROOM IN SECONDS .... (just bring in a second bed!)

 

Early on, I was in agreement to the close downs as it was unknown and ventilators were the only known treatment or those 2% that had serious version. Now they are back to using Ventilators as a last resort (as I understand it) and pretty much back on normal footing.  Now just to maintain the total spread to a reasonable level. problem is ... they are still using the old mindset... The hospitals are doing fine. They have lots of room and from what reports I have been able to see (from outside of those with a vested interest) there isn't as many needing the advanced care that was previously given. Most just need a room and some TLC treatment.  Getting much more close to what would occur with a regular FLU. Not quite but pretty close. More along SCARs which if I recall correctly.. DIDN'T SHUT DOWN THE ENTIRE WORLD!)

19 hours ago, Eadoo said:

It could be.  Several Asian countries had fairly permanent mask-wearing as expected cultural elements.

But...that's not mandatory.  There's no reason to believe that mandatory mask wearing will be a permanent aspect of our culture going forward.

I suspect, however, that we'll see much more common voluntary mask wearing.

I have worked with Asians on various jobs and from reports and personal being told it is a cultural thing. If you get the sniffles or cough etc.. you wear a mask. It is to help prevent the spread of what you have. The healthy don't. It is a volunteer situation but you will be chastised (in some places) for not wearing a mask if you have sniffles, sneezes or cough.

 

I believe there will be some that will wear mask for their own personal needs and/or some small expectation of you are sick to wear a mask going forward... Which might not be a bad thing. This isn't anything like what we are experiencing. It is only for those that are recognizably sick coughing and sneezing etc. There won't be a stigma about wearing a mask that was present previously ( in the US)

19 hours ago, winny257 said:

in China are masks for decades the rule, but not because of Corona, these people know nothing else!
a normal, mask-free life, unthinkable. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

They don't wear a mask normally daily as a thing. They wear them when they are sick or afraid of getting sick. There are many people that have medical issues where getting sick (from flu etc) makes things harder on them. Some even risk their lives .. they wear a mask as their own decision.  (the non visibly sick) Those that are visibly sick are expected to wear on in public.

 

Disclaimer: the info on the mask are primarily from Japanese medical workers personal comments.  There might be other reasons or cultural believes in other countries. It would be nice if someone that lives in those cultures chime in on their own personal experiences on this.

[winny257]

59 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

They don't wear a mask normally daily as a thing. They wear them when they are sick or afraid of getting sick. There are many people that have medical issues where getting sick (from flu etc) makes things harder on them. Some even risk their lives .. they wear a mask as their own decision.  (the non visibly sick) Those that are visibly sick are expected to wear on in public.

this statement is incorrect, i was 2015 in china in beijing.
and what I saw there took my breath away, in the truest sense of the word.
90 percent of all Chinese cities sink into smog!
without mask in China's cities increases the risk of developing cancer dramatic.

https://rp-online.de/panorama/ausland/china-90-prozent-aller-staedte-versinken-im-smog_aid-21542807

https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/umwelt/article125550036/China-erklaert-Umweltverschmutzung-den-Krieg.html

Spoiler

 

https://orange.handelsblatt.com/artikel/44846

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, RitualClarity said:

The virus like most virus don't like sunlight.. it will dry out the materials that they are riding on and likely kill them.

I didn't say anything to the contrary. My point was that the states I mentioned are known for their heat and that the virus was apparently doing well there. We are now in mid-July and the virus is still doing alright all across the northern hemisphere.

[winny257]

2 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

I didn't say anything to the contrary. My point was that the states I mentioned are known for their heat and that the virus was apparently doing well there. We are now in mid-July and the virus is still doing alright all across the northern hemisphere.

exactly, the virus also exists in countries where it is always warm.
look to Africa, now the hottest months are there and the number of infections keeps increasing!

https://afrika.info/corona/

[RitualClarity]

3 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

I didn't say anything to the contrary. My point was that the states I mentioned are known for their heat and that the virus was apparently doing well there. We are now in mid-July and the virus is still doing alright all across the northern hemisphere.

I understand... it for others that read your post..

The southern states are more outside group than the northern ones. I know some realities that live in the south and they can't wait to get out and do activities even if it is a barbecue. That combined with other political and cultural believes.. not going to get into it... because I don't want this post to be deleted due to POLITICS but that contributes.

 

 

58 minutes ago, winny257 said:

exactly, the virus also exists in countries where it is always warm.
look to Africa, now the hottest months are there and the number of infections keeps increasing!

https://afrika.info/corona/

And like the south.. people are outside more often now. Interacting with larger groups spreading the illness. 

 

 

[gregathit]

20 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

And like the south.. people are outside more often now. Interacting with larger groups spreading the illness. 

I abhor stereo types.  Northerners go outside just as fucking much as southern folks (with the exception of northerners in the winter - Wisconsin/Illinois/Michigan were fucking brutally cold in the winter).  I've lived all over this country and most folks are pretty much the same where ever you go.  The differences are more in whether you are in a small town or a big city and if you are right next to a large body of water.  It makes almost no difference if that small town (or big city) is east, west, north or south.  

 

As to spreading the virus, I think that has more to do with the level of open that the states are.  Besides, what difference does it make in the end.  The virus is going to spread.   That is what they do.  The 7 day update on the CDC website:  https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases

[Grey Cloud]

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2020/07/17/perfect-response-anyone-thinks-pandemic-over-reaction/

 

And:

There is a joke circulating in the commonwealth:

"What borders on stupidity?"
"Scotland and Wales!"

[RitualClarity]

33 minutes ago, gregathit said:

I abhor stereo types.  Northerners go outside just as fucking much as southern folks (with the exception of northerners in the winter - Wisconsin/Illinois/Michigan were fucking brutally cold in the winter).  I've lived all over this country and most folks are pretty much the same where ever you go.  The differences are more in whether you are in a small town or a big city and if you are right next to a large body of water.  It makes almost no difference if that small town (or big city) is east, west, north or south.  

 

As to spreading the virus, I think that has more to do with the level of open that the states are.  Besides, what difference does it make in the end.  The virus is going to spread.   That is what they do.  The 7 day update on the CDC website:  https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases

I have relatives (lots) that have lived in the south all their lives, along with their fathers and their fathers father. MY relatives and their associates are outside way more than my friends and associates here in the north. That is fact.  Personal experience.  Most of them are in the states that are currently having the highest spikes in covid testing.. Most of the people I know here in the northern states stay in playing Fortnight or other video games. (clubs and D&D lol)  When I went to my relatives  in the late spring early summer, I can tell you I was outside way more than I would have been the previous year all together. There is just more shit I can do down there. Shooting, hunting, RTV'ing, barbecues, parties, fishing, hiking and more. It is way more interesting and way more activities outdoors in the south for me than there is in the north. My statement is based on my experience. I have family in both north and south. Friends in both as well. Deep long relationships.

Closed states and $4.50 can get you a cappuccino at the local coffee shop. Closed states mean shit.  Florida, Texas and other states that were closed "officially" have the increases in covid testing. Why.. because they ignored the laws etc for social distancing etc. and went out and did what the fuck they wanted. Closed states.. ha.. that is a joke.

 

The virus is going to spread.  This is true. The only thing needed is it to be just slow enough that those most in need of medial assistance has that assistance available. That is all. That is what was the reason, (original reason) for all the restrictions being placed in the first place. The problem is .. there is no clear reliable testing for the virus or the antibodies. The test aren't available for everybody. I can't get one unless I want to pay $$$$$$$ for a faulty test. (disclaimer, I will be getting one in a couple of weeks due to it being required for a procedure. Only way my insurance will pay for it)  I was concerned when it was first found due to restricted ventilator and my understanding of the risk of using such a device long term for such types of illnesses. Then it was filling of the hospital beds but now I know there is plenty of availability in my location. I believe now, that there is an massive overstatement of those infected, the need for beds are over inflated etc. Sure NY had it hard that is no joke but this isn't then. Medical professionals know more on how to treat the illness the recovery rates are better and there are much more efficient treatment options as opposed to the old Ventilator and pray treatment option. Every week I am getting less and less fearful of the illnes. Much like SCARS in the past...

 

With all the current spikes in covid in the south states.. no reports of bed shortages, no reports of major spikes in death rates... (in fact, that is being less and less reported on with the exception of the occasional younger person passing due to complication)