Devious Followers - Continued

[Anunya]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Doing it all seems great, but inevitably means that something else is pushed back.

So for now, I think I'll just worry about the bug, and put the rework on the roadmap as a "maybe", back behind radiant quests.

 

 

Totally legit. Your mod, you set the priorities. Thanks for taking it under consideration.

 

... and yeah, all the other stuff on the road map is nice and juicy too

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Aldid said:

I've been playing around with it a bit in my game, but the problem is that you would have to add a lot of potential lines for it to feel natural, especially since many would have to be locked behind specific deals.

DF already adds a lot of dialog load with all the hellos.

Adding a massive load of extra hellos would be a bad idea.

 

Using periodic events and say() is another way to do this, and the conditions could be done more efficiently.

However, say() carries its own risks. Two mods try to say() at once and you probably CTD.

We need that dialog broker that Monoman was talking about.

[Aldid]

16 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

DF already adds a lot of dialog load with all the hellos.

Adding a massive load of extra hellos would be a bad idea.

 

Using periodic events and say() is another way to do this, and the conditions could be done more efficiently.

However, say() carries its own risks. Two mods try to say() at once and you probably CTD.

We need that dialog broker that Monoman was talking about.

Thanks for the warning! I know very little about modding, so I've just been stumbling around trying to pick up some basics.

[Lupine00]

12 hours ago, Baltasarr80 said:

one question though ... if your follower will sell you will he leave you in the moment of selling or stick around?

What do you think should happen and why?

 

I could see either case, but they wouldn't stay and then buy you back. That would be silly.

If there's an auction they should probably wait for it to finish so they can get their money.

If they just sell you, they should probably leave immediately.

[Baltasarr80]

no thats absolutely what i wanted to ask and yes i think they should leave the party after auctioning you off

[YojimboRatchet]

11 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I could see either case, but they wouldn't stay and then buy you back. That would be silly.

 

totally agree here. selling the PC just to buy them back would be ridiculous. the ONLY way i can see this being a viable option, would be IF the follower wanted to tease the PC to degrade them even more, maybe scaring them a bit as to "what could happen" if they didn't behave properly. show them how worthless and disposable they are to the follower. that would be the only way it would or could work in my opinion.

 

11 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If they just sell you, they should probably leave immediately.

 

not necessarily. if they sell you, there could be a bit of a scene where the PC is properly handed off, and then maybe a bit of degradation from the follower to the PC as they leave.

[Lupine00]

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

So, it's a choice between "fix proximity bug" and leave everything else as it is, or do a lot more.

I've added a theoretical fix for the proximity bug.

The hand on shoulder cannot fire unless the follower is in the same cell, and less than 200 distant.

This can let you dodge the mechanic a bit, but that might be a feature.

 

New deal dialogs appear to be working as intended.

I think I fixed a long-standing issue with modular deals sometimes assigning no deal for no obvious reason; a lot of clean-up there anyway.

 

In theory I just need to do the remaining deals and do a lot of testing. It's testable now, for anybody who is serious about testing it. I wouldn't advise using it in your playthrough and the sort of tests required involve a lot of waiting, sleeping, checking timers behave properly, etc. Trying with mods in/mods out, all that sort of thing. Not much fun.

[Seeker999]

On 1/17/2021 at 8:01 PM, Abbadons_Corruption said:

Had a bit of a bug after I paused the mod to use Cursed Loot's safe word option. The game started to think I had 2 separate sets of cuffs and a collar equipped after I took them off my follower, thought I should pause it so I didn't get punished for not wearing the things I'm supposed to but a bit later I noticed it had forgotten my modular deals. I had Bear Deal at "Rule 1 - Collar, Rule 2 - Deep Debt Deal," but now it just says "Rule - 0, Rule 2 - 0."

 

**snip**

 

Update: okay it didn't just break my current modular deal, it seems to have broke all modular deals, so the rule just says 0 any time I try to take a new one. **snip**

 

Yes, I had that issue with the modular deals, too. Any time I paused DF (I don't use DCL), the modular deals were broken when I unpaused the mod. Buying out didn't matter. I had to reset the mod. Then I adjusted my willpower and made new deals to get me back to approximately where I was before I hit the pause button.

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I've added a theoretical fix for the proximity bug.

The hand on shoulder cannot fire unless the follower is in the same cell, and less than 200 distant.

This can let you dodge the mechanic a bit, but that might be a feature.

 

New deal dialogs appear to be working as intended.

I think I fixed a long-standing issue with modular deals sometimes assigning no deal for no obvious reason; a lot of clean-up there anyway.

 

**snip**

 

I like what you're trying for the proximity bug.

Re: the modular deals, is this the same bug as when unpausing the mod?

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, Seeker999 said:

is this the same bug as when unpausing the mod

Probably not.

I made some changes to pausing months ago, but it's hard to remember what now.

It needs more testing to see if that issue can be reproduced, or whether there are other deficiencies - but apparently people don't want to sidetrack their gameplay for several days just testing a mod  That means I have to test by myself, and that will probably mean narrow/limited testing that is just about certain features working in their normal setting.

[bVZinda]

Heya! First, THANK YOU! This mod is amazing  I've had a lot of fun messing around with it. It's gotten me into the very best of troubles, and I'm very much looking forward to the progress coming this year, providing the roadmap you've set out isn't as hopeless as last year's was.

 

I'm currently running into a brick wall of a bug. My Papyrus logs are pointing to a very particular thing, but I'm not really sure how to read it. The one thing that stays the same in the crash is in the following blockquote. It happens when someone runs up to me and accuses me of being a Slave. (Question: What exactly triggers that? I can load a safe save before this particular NPC starts chasing me down, but that's unimportant... WHY CAN'T I HIDE?! NORMAL ENEMIES AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO FOLLOW ME LIKE THIS!)

 

I didn't think this was your mod, but I found the "where is your master" text by using Creation Kit, so it must be. This might be a bug due to nomkaz's port to SSE, but I imagine it won't hurt to see if this is an easy fix.

Quote

[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: LockDevice called for Samantha: Slave Handcuffs)
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] Error: Property UnEquipConflictingDevices on script zadequipscript attached to Item 6 in container  (00000014) cannot be initialized because the value is the incorrect type
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged()
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: OnEquipped(Samantha: Slave Handcuffs)
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: Checking for active unequip operation for [Keyword <zad_DeviousHeavyBondage (0C05226C)>]
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: No active unequip operation running for [Keyword <zad_DeviousHeavyBondage (0C05226C)>]. Proceeding
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: No menus are open. Equipping silently.
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: Sending device event DeviceEquippedHandcuffs(Samantha:1)

 

[Anunya]

So I paused DFC in my current playthrough for RP reasons. My follower was/is in control of my gold. I still get the daily "you're allowed to carry this much gold" pop-up and it looks to me like my carried gold is still being adjusted.

 

Is this expected behaviour?

 

And is my follower still charging his daily rate even though the mod is paused? If so, I suppose I can go tweak the cost settings so it's not a big deal, but it'd be good to know for sure either way.

 

I'm not asking for changes or fixes - I think these are edge cases and that your time is better spent pursuing the road map and more significant fixes - but I thought I'd check.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Anunya said:

Is this expected behaviour?

Oh you know it's not!

 

However, I can't explain this behavior. The code for gold control doesn't run if _DFlow is less than stage 10.

Can you getstage _DFlow in your paused game and let me know what stage it returns?

 

Pausing should reset _DFlow and then stop it, so it can't be anything other than 0, which would stop gold control running updates.

Very strange.

 

3 hours ago, Anunya said:

And is my follower still charging his daily rate even though the mod is paused?

Probably not. The quests handling that are stopped. But mysteries! See above.

 

 

I'm not sure your DF actually paused. Maybe it failed in an early step?

That would fit with most of the pause code not executing.

One cause could be an improperly assigned DF master, so dereferencing the alias blows up.

 

 

I don't think Pause is an edge case; it's a core feature that lets you - in theory - use DF with a variety of mods that are otherwise incompatible.

 

As a hack you can probably stop the gold control quest from the console and restart it when you unpause.

 

To stop gold mode:

setstage _DFlowGoldMode 2

 

To start gold mode:

setstage _DFlowGoldMode 1

 

 

It would be nice to find out what's going on here, as I can't see a code bug that would cause this.

If you keep the save this happens in, possibly, with a little persistence it can be debugged.

 

 

Also, I can see the failure to properly save and restore modular needs on pause/unpause is obvious in the code, so I'll fix that, and test it more carefully.

It's just rather tricky to do because modular deals have a lot of state.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, bVZinda said:

My Papyrus logs are pointing to a very particular thing, but I'm not really sure how to read it. The one thing that stays the same in the crash is in the following blockquote. It happens when someone runs up to me and accuses me of being a Slave. (Question: What exactly triggers that? I can load a safe save before this particular NPC starts chasing me down, but that's unimportant... WHY CAN'T I HIDE?! NORMAL ENEMIES AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO FOLLOW ME LIKE THIS!)

 

Probably... you have a broken DD install, or the SSE conversion of the DF devices is broken.

Not a certainty, but seems quite likely.

 

The guard event triggers because you have low willpower and are already wearing a collar or a lockable device of some kind that isn't heavy bondage.

Set your willpower to a high value and it won't occur.

 

e.g.

set _DWill to 10.0

 

Or remove the lockable devices you're wearing.

 

Either action will stop the forced start from running.

[twsnider1138]

@Lupine00 just a heads up but DD5.1 is now out if you wanted to poke around with it.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, twsnider1138 said:

just a heads up but DD5.1 is now out if you wanted to poke around with it.

That took about as long as expected...

Maybe after I can get a DF release done.

 

Looking at the changelist and bugs fixed I'm surprised anyone could play a game with 5.0. Waiting a bit was definitely a good call.

[bVZinda]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Looking at the changelist and bugs fixed I'm surprised anyone could play a game with 5.0. Waiting a bit was definitely a good call.

 

Maybe that's why it's busted. I was using 5.0 >_>

[AndrewLRG]

Disabling Stop() and Start() in _DFlowModDealController seemed to fix the problem with modular deals after pause/unpause. At least for me. It felt like other scripts lose connection with _MDDeal and can't retrieve "int Rule1Code" and others. That's why we get "Rule - 0" in Mcm.

[Vaccinated Alligator]

I had an issue to hire a devious follower here: Had to enable "Add debug dialogue to NPCs", then disabling again. After that, I was able to recruit and he become devious (after a few seconds).

 

After this, when the new dialogues showed up, the option to "part ways" and "I don't need your help any longer" appeared both at the same time. 

 

I use the latest version of NFF on Special Edition, and put DFC to load after NFF in both of MO2 panes. It was also in a new game, with no followers hired previously. Other than that, this mod seems to be working here with some workarounds (console commands). I'm doing no serious playthrough currently, just testing a new setup of mods that has DFC included.

[Lupine00]

27 minutes ago, Vaccinated Alligator said:

Special Edition

I can't really speak to SE. Maybe NFF is different in SE, or maybe your NFF is too new.

Or maybe you let NFF overwrite DF files.

DF should overwrite NFF files.

[KLongad Sirtup]

11 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I can't really speak to SE. Maybe NFF is different in SE, or maybe your NFF is too new.

Or maybe you let NFF overwrite DF files.

DF should overwrite NFF files.

 

I wouldn't recommend that as NFF has had an update to it on SE and LE since your last update of this modification. It's likely a possible change in your code, versus the original code by follower framework author. Your code patch for NFF really needs to be updated so it's now in sync again with NFF. NFF in its update has at least a dozen changes made, including fixes.

 

Yes, like you I would replace the original NFF scripts with the patched ones.

[Lupine00]

48 minutes ago, KLongad Sirtup said:

Yes, like you I would replace the original NFF scripts with the patched ones.

People can always use an older NFF. I don't have any problems with the one I have.

 

But if you don't or can't overwrite NFF with DF files, DF sure isn't going to work.

 

I'll look into updating for a new NFF, but EFF and AFT haven't changed at all so you can always use those  

[KLongad Sirtup]

1 minute ago, Lupine00 said:

People can always use an older NFF. I don't have any problems with the one I have.

 

But if you don't or can't overwrite NFF with DF files, DF sure isn't going to work.

 

I'll look into updating for a new NFF, but EFF and AFT haven't changed at all so you can always use those  

 

Can you please tell what version you have, that way people know what one the currently released patch is based on?

[Lupine00]

8 hours ago, KLongad Sirtup said:

Can you please tell what version you have, that way people know what one the currently released patch is based on?

I posted this recently, but it's not on the front page.

I'm using Nether's Follower Framework 251.

[KLongad Sirtup]

14 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I posted this recently, but it's not on the front page.

I'm using Nether's Follower Framework 251.

 

Thanks for telling us! However the earliest version of NFF you can download now still currently from Nexus Mods is version 2.6.8 thus people can't reach version 2.5.1, unless someone has it downloaded somewhere as a backup.

[KLongad Sirtup]

@Lupine00 There's been an update for Simple Slavery++ which allows for an exit event with the outcome reported. Could be very useful as part of a Devious Followers - Continued auction sell hand off, as you can then use it to transfer the ownership. Maybe even for final remark from previous owner, or other outcome response.