Devious Followers - Continued

[Lupine00]

14 hours ago, Anunya said:

One idea: if you have a deal that includes a gag, have the Devious Follower say something like "alright, I'll let you rest your jaws. Five minutes without the muzzle" and remove the gag. That gives you a chance to eat/ drink (or provide oral sex, maybe that's the Follower's motivation) so you don't starve to death. Possible the interval is configurable in the MCM.

Of course there's some logic in that, but gags have always been "fun" in DF, because the follower is so unfair about them.

 

If you can remove a gag yourself, then you can eat and drink. You'll just get a cash penalty. The follower won't lock the gag on, they'll just keep on fining you.

That's how DF works with everything, so it invites you to try and eat and drink when the follower isn't looking.

 

As long as you are out of hello range, you can do things without the follower reacting.

 

Where things get a little awkward is if you can't remove a locked gag.

That said, I've never been hard-stuck in a situation like DCL rubber-doll, where the hood can't be removed - it's a quest item - and you can't eat or drink.

Depending on your needs mod, you could easily die before you got it off.

DCL added (after my complaining) an option to mitigate this otherwise potentially fatal problem.

 

It wouldn't be a bad thing to have an option where if you're in a gag, you can ask the follower to remove it and feed you.

The end result is that the gag is removed, then replaced and locked on. The follower keeps the key. Regular DD keys will not remove it, but it's not be block generic or quest. You could still struggle out or cut it off.

 

That's actually a mechanic with various implications and complexities. I like the idea, but don't know if I'd do it. Gags are especially punishing if you use SLS, because they can block your earning capacity. In that scenario, a gag deal can mean you are on a one-way road to enslavement.

 

Incidentally...

I'm in the process of moving my dev environment to a new PC. I need to reinstall all the mods I need. I'm part way through, but not in a rush  

 

After that, I'll do a SLAX update, then go back to finishing up the DF release.

[Anunya]

That makes sense. Thanks for the additional context, Lupine00. Enjoy your new PC

[Leeyds4LLTS]

I am having trouble getting a follower to be recognized by DFC, even with the debug option of adding a dialog choice to produce the action.  The dialog choice isn't showing up.  Any help would be appreciated.  It is a follower from a follower mod, not a regular npc.

[Lupine00]

6 hours ago, Leeyds4LLTS said:

I am having trouble getting a follower to be recognized by DFC, even with the debug option of adding a dialog choice to produce the action.  The dialog choice isn't showing up.  Any help would be appreciated.  It is a follower from a follower mod, not a regular npc.

Dialog options not showing up?

 

This requires more detail. A lot more detail. Just for a start...

 

Is this a new game or old?

How did you install?

Did the feature ever work for you?

What is the follower that doesn't work?

What other followers does it not work on?

What follower framework do you use? If any?

What other follower related mods do you have?

More background/history about your game seems essential here.

[Leeyds4LLTS]

Thanks for responding so quickly.  As it turned out, the dialog option did show up after awhile.  So good on that front ?

 

I have had a second issue come up that has to do with the pet suit quest when you enter a jarl's Longhouse.  When this begins with my toon, she has the beginning conversation with the Master who tells to she wants to introduce her new pet to the jarl.  My toon goes to the jarl, hast the initial line and a pat on the head, but then everything stops.  When I look and the debug menu, under "event triggers" it says:  Suspended (DF).

 

Any idea on what is causing this?

 

Info you requested above:  1 - new game with updated mods  2 - I use mod organizer  3 - generally speaking things seem to be working well with DFC in other respects  4 - My follower mod is called Minerva  (she seems to be working well)  5 - Not using any other follower atm (I am returning back after a long hiatus)  6 - No follower framework  7 - I think the only other follower related mod I am using atm is Deviously Enslaved Continued.

 

Thanks again for your time and help!

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Leeyds4LLTS said:

I have had a second issue come up that has to do with the pet suit quest when you enter a jarl's Longhouse.  When this begins with my toon, she has the beginning conversation with the Master who tells to she wants to introduce her new pet to the jarl.  My toon goes to the jarl, hast the initial line and a pat on the head, but then everything stops.  When I look and the debug menu, under "event triggers" it says:  Suspended (DF).

Usually, the problem is you can't have the conversation at all.

Some areas to look at:

Do you have the required animations for the pet suit? Are they actually FNIS'd and enabled?

Are you stuck in some other scene?

Are there a lot of extra people in your Jarl palace?

 

One cause of problems here is the scanner. It's a frequent cause of DF problems. It can easily cause script overloads that result in a fatal script abort.

The best way to avoid this problem is not to have too many NPCs around, and not to run other mods that do something equally stressful for your game.

With multiple mods adding load, it creates problems.

 

I inherited this scanner, and it's been broken since it was first made. It's had a few mitigations added to it, but it's still a cause of problems.

I want to replace it, as it's one of the two big remaining bugs.

Allowing extra time slice for your Papyrus may help here, though you may find that causes some minor stuttering occasionally.

[Sospice]

I'm not sure if this is an issue, but when the forced enslavement happens where I guard handcuffs you and you ask a follower to pretend to be your master, it seems like it's impossible to reach a point when you can dismiss the follower. The contract time runs out, I pay off all deals and debts, even try sleeping/ advancing from a couple of hours to a full day. But the follower still insists I still owe them money. 

I don't have this issue when you hire a follower and accumulate debt/ pay it off and then dismiss the follower normally. 

 

Also, is it possible to get n enable/ disable button for the corset?

And I'm not sure if I'm understanding how the number of deals choice works. 

Is it number of deals/ items  per each category? So if you have 3 selected you will get 3 items under ownership?

When I disable a number of devices/ options, I get a "you must have enough deals selected" message, but it seems that if I change it from 3 to 5 or 1 it allows me to disable the same number of devices/ options. 

[Lupine00]

58 minutes ago, Sospice said:

And I'm not sure if I'm understanding how the number of deals choice works. 

Is it number of deals/ items  per each category? So if you have 3 selected you will get 3 items under ownership?

When I disable a number of devices/ options, I get a "you must have enough deals selected" message, but it seems that if I change it from 3 to 5 or 1 it allows me to disable the same number of devices/ options. 

It can sometimes be a bit wonky, but I think it basically works.

 

The idea is that you should have a minimum number of deals selected. If you don't have enough deals enabled, DF can't really work.

With the Classic deals, each stage that's enabled counts as a deal.

The alternate level 3 stages also count as a deal.

 

For the new dynamic deals, each option counts as one deal.

 

With your undismissable follower, you're suffering from a generic dismissal bug.

It's nothing to do with how you recruited the follower, it's just that dismissal is broken.

 

It's partly my fault. There was always a design flaw in how it worked, and a race condition.

I improved performance in one area, which now makes the race condition much more likely to occur.

 

I fixed it in my dev build, IIRC, so there's a solid mechanic for dismissal.

 

If you scroll back a few pages, you'll see this issue discussed, and explanations of how to work around it.

[Sospice]

19 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

It can sometimes be a bit wonky, but I think it basically works.

 

The idea is that you should have a minimum number of deals selected. If you don't have enough deals enabled, DF can't really work.

With the Classic deals, each stage that's enabled counts as a deal.

The alternate level 3 stages also count as a deal.

 

For the new dynamic deals, each option counts as one deal.

 

With your undismissable follower, you're suffering from a generic dismissal bug.

It's nothing to do with how you recruited the follower, it's just that dismissal is broken.

 

It's partly my fault. There was always a design flaw in how it worked, and a race condition.

I improved performance in one area, which now makes the race condition much more likely to occur.

 

I fixed it in my dev build, IIRC, so there's a solid mechanic for dismissal.

 

If you scroll back a few pages, you'll see this issue discussed, and explanations of how to work around it.

Okay, I found the thread. I didn't see anyone mention him so I'll add him to the list;  the issue came up with Erik in Rorikstead (one of the followers that requires you to complete a miniquest before being hirable). 

[Balgin]

1 hour ago, A Little Kitten said:

Hello,

i reinstalled the mod, the game, entire computer actually,

and now i cannot figure out how to hire a follower.

 

i downloaded this one

There is only vanilla Follow me dialogue

i did not install any other mod related to followers

the mod is not paused

i did try using the debug that is suposed to add the dialogue to all npcs, but!!!! no npc in the game has the dialogue even then anyway...

i tried reinstalling the mod through vortex.

 

is there anything else i should try or have missed ?

thanks

There used to be a debug option in the mcm (in fact there still is) but the mod currently doesn't function for custom followers any more for technical reasons. Only core game ones.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, A Little Kitten said:

i did try using the debug that is suposed to add the dialogue to all npcs, but!!!! no npc in the game has the dialogue even then anyway...

i tried reinstalling the mod through vortex.

This is a clue that the problem is with your DF install.

The follower you downloaded looks to be extremely ordinary. That follower will not be the problem.

 

See my responses to a similar question above - on this very page - a user with the exact same problem ... I'll cut+paste it again:

 

 

Dialog options not showing up?

 

This requires more detail. A lot more detail. Just for a start...

 

• Is this a new game or old?
• How did you install?
• Did the feature ever work for you?
• What is the follower that doesn't work?
• What other followers does it not work on?
• What follower framework do you use? If any?
• What other follower related mods do you have?
• More background/history about your game seems essential here.

 

It sounds like this is a new game and that followers have never worked for you.

This almost certainly is an installation problem.

You will solve this problem at the mod-manager level; either in MO, or NMM, or Vortex, or if you have no manager at all, tediously, by hand.

 

Most likely, DF is being overwritten or failing to start.

 

Try this...

 

Move DF and it's files to as near the end of your LO as practical.

If you have Spank that Ass, ensure its files overwrite DF (because STA has the most up to date spanking files now).

However, STA doesn't have to load its ESP after DF, though it's fine if it does.

 

If you use LOOT to order your mods, you may have to face the unpleasant inconvenience that LOOT is almost useless for ordering LL mods.

It's a starting point, but you usually have to do some work after running LOOT.

 

Do you have a follower framework? Ensure that DF is overwriting that, loads AFTER it, and overwrites its files.

Latest NFF might be a cause of problems, maybe try an older one?

Do not install all NFF bells+whistles, there might be a problem there. I never tested with those things.

 

A possible cause of DF failing is missing dependencies, such as SLA*, SexLab, DD, etc. that may be installed incorrectly or incompletely, or not running.

 

You don't have DD5 do you?

I haven't looked at supporting that, and probably won't be in a rush to do so.

Even if I had time, I'd probably wait for 5.1 before considering it.

I haven't the faintest idea if DF works with DD5.

[Lupine00]

29 minutes ago, Balgin said:

There used to be a debug option in the mcm (in fact there still is) but the mod currently doesn't function for custom followers any more for technical reasons. Only core game ones.

That bit about it not working is absolutely not correct.

 

DF works for literally hundreds (probably thousands) of different followers.

I have over 100 in my game. They all work.

 

I think you have become muddled - or are being misleading - about DF not working with custom-follower-systems.

Your post seems to suggest, or could be construed to mean, that only pre-existing Bethesda followers work, which is flat out wrong.

 

That rules out a tiny number of very special followers, all of which have their own blocking dialogs that would break DF, such as Inigo, Rigmor, or Sofia.

Hidielle linked above is just a vanilla follower; little more than a custom appearance.

 

I found DF even worked fine with a followers like Recorder and Ben Doon, though I didn't expect it to.

 

 

There still is a debug option to add followers if recruitment isn't working properly.

It hasn't been removed. The posters with problems noted that they tried it.

 

I think again, some confusion here. The debug function used to work for EVERY NPC IN THE GAME, but now only works for ACTUAL POTENTIAL FOLLOWERS; that is to say, only characters in the potential follower faction. As pretty much every custom follower ever made is in that faction, barring maybe Sofia, Inigo and related super-followers, it doesn't exclude anyone worth recruiting. Previously, that function let you recruit Belethor, or a Jarl as a DF, which wasn't necessarily going to work out well. It was just a cause of bugs and problems, so I narrowed its scope.

 

In my dev version I've improved recruitment a little so it's much, much, more reliable - particularly for mercenaries, which now seem to finally work as originally intended. But recruitment is OK in DF as released, as long as it's installed OK. It can not work if you have mods that are stealing all the hello events. DF doesn't work well if you have mods blocking those, such as To Your Face, or possibly SL Approach (though it was ok for me).

[slvsaris]

Have an issue with not being able to dismiss followers.  Since DF is the only mod I have that overwrites EFF scripts, I started digging into the changes DF makes to the EFF scripts it overwrites.  Not going to say it is being fruitful, but I do have questions.

 

A few observations:

 

Started a new game and picked up a follower.  Did a few quests, then dropped the follower at a player home (dismissed them)  Dismissal worked fine.  The follower was never a devious follower.

 

Later, had two followers, one became a devious follower.  Picked up a third that I planned on dropping off at a player home.  The devious follower was currently controlling gold.

I could not dismiss the third (or the second) follower.  I had to clear EFF and re-recruit the two I wanted to follow me.   All followers were "vanilla" followers, meaning they were not using any special follower package (like Indigo and others)

 

Looking at the CanDismissFollower function, I see in my first scenario the follower was able to be dismissed because the dfmain quest had not started.  My second scenario, where I could not dismiss any followers, The check fell into the part where it is checking to see if the follower is in the ignore faction.  How does the ignore faction get populated? I am guessing that the ignore list may have been intended to be filled with any followers the player did not want to be devious (through the MCM?).  So it appears to me that in order to be able to dismiss any follower while the dfquest is running, they have to be in that ignore list.  For that to work, any follower who is not the current devious follower (I am guessing there can only be one at a time?) needs to be added to that ignore list.  Perhaps a better check would be to check if the follower being dismissed is the current devious follower, and if not, allow the follower to be dismissed.

 

I have seen this issue before in a previous playthrough, but I had messed up some conflict resolution with the EFF scripts between three mods so thought maybe that was the issue.

 

 

Maybe you have addressed this already, I just read  some posted up the page a bit.

[Balgin]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

That bit about it not working is absolutely not correct.

 

DF works for literally hundreds (probably thousands) of different followers.

I have over 100 in my game. They all work.

 

I think you have become muddled - or are being misleading - about DF not working with custom-follower-systems.

Your post seems to suggest, or could be construed to mean, that only pre-existing Bethesda followers work, which is flat out wrong.

 

That rules out a tiny number of very special followers, all of which have their own blocking dialogs that would break DF, such as Inigo, Rigmor, or Sofia.

Hidielle linked above is just a vanilla follower; little more than a custom appearance.

Okay. My bad. It used to work with Rigmor and Sofia but now it doesn't. Now Rigmor's understandable because she has a lot of custom cutscenes and conversations. My general understanding was that core game companions will work. Custom ones might not depending on how complicated they were but I've been so used to it being core only that I'd forgotten some custom followers might still work.

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, slvsaris said:

Have an issue with not being able to dismiss followers.  Since DF is the only mod I have that overwrites EFF scripts, I started digging into the changes DF makes to the EFF scripts it overwrites.  Not going to say it is being fruitful, but I do have questions.

Scroll back. This is discussed on this very page. And on many pages previous.

 

I've had several people suggest they think there's a problem with what DF is doing with EFF.

They are mistaken, and there's a lengthy walkthrough of the code somewhere in earlier posts I think.

The EFF behavior - I believe - is working as I intended it.

 

The problem with dismissal happens regardless of framework and has nothing to do with the ignore faction.

That check is there simply so you can always dismiss ignored followers without DF interfering.

 

Suggestions on how to work around the dismissal issue are to be found easily if you just go back a page or two in the forum.

Or you can change your own version's code.

 

 

It's a "known issue" and I fixed it in my dev version months ago, but then things happened. It hasn't been a regular year... so months later I have to revisit and test everything I wrote way back then just so I can figure out what isn't finished so I can release ... because it's not like I was planning to leave it untouched for months, and so didn't make any notes on what was remaining to be done. Now I have no idea what is unfinished.

 

Also, I have over 80 mods to update since I last updated my Skyrim... and there's ... you know ... Cyberpunk to finish  

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, A Little Kitten said:

is it possible, that its not working because i installed other mods through vortex ???

Maybe???

 

Those suggestions were the most I could provide in the context of almost no information about how you installed it.

 

Unfortunately, I know nothing at all about Vortex, so I don't know what you can and can't do wrong with it.

I suspect you need help from a Vortex expert...

 

But if you're using a follower framework the ordering with that will be important.

And if you aren't, then you should be wary of other mods that may mess with followers.

 

 

One thing to try - a generic way to debug some mod problems - is to load you entire LO into Tes5Edit and check to see whether the DF version of records is winning, and if not, what mod is overwriting it.

This only sometimes gives a clue to a file overwrite problem, but it gives a certain answer to ESP ordering problems.

• If you look at the vanilla follower quests for record overwrites, you will see all the mods that are involved in it, and which one won out.
• Also, you should be able to confirm that the VMADs for the DF quests are present and loadable.

 

But if it was MO, I'd be looking mainly at the file overwrites.

 

 

Also, if you attempted to rebuild the code yourself, it's very, very easy to obliterate the follower framework integration with do-nothing placeholders, because that's what's in the source files. The "real" source is in deliberetely mis-named files ... because otherwise you can't build. Building the correct version of those files is tricky, and should be avoided unless you understand why the source is set up how it is. I'm guessing you didn't do something like that and then forget to mention it?

 

 

It's interesting that TWO people had the same issue just recently, on what I guess are new installations.

The information being provided to me is ... limited so far.

As you can see, DF hasn't changed in months. The issues with that release are well understood.

While it has some issues with dismissal, and some of the old bugs you could trace back two years, it definitely does show dialogs for hundreds, if not thousands of users.

 

This makes me think that some mod has made a recent change that is breaking DF.

 

It's probably going to have to impact somebody who is better at diagnosing these issues and will make a clearer and more detailed report of what they found before we get to the bottom of it. Because just asserting that I should "Listen" doesn't tell me anything except that you are frustrated with it.

Maybe the other person with issues was using Vortex too, but they didn't even say what mod manager they used, despite that being one of the most important things in diagnosing a likely cause of errors. Vortex and NMM seem to be more likely to lead to problems; which gives me zero incentive to ever try Vortex. Why would I abandon a working MO setup and invest a lot of time in a mod manager that seems to produce only less reliable results? For people that were using NMM, I guess it seems a logical upgrade? (I'm using the community updated NMM on my new dev setup, and it's got some annoying bugs, but fortunately only has to manage a small number of mods).

 

In any case, the issue is that I can't offer much help to diagnose problems in Vortex setups beyond check overwrites, check with Tes5Edit.

[Jgoftl]

tes5edit will actually help show you which mods overwrite each other even if vortex doesn't pop up a request for which mod to load first. It's actually very simple to figure out. I've been using Vortex since Nexus made the switch away from NMM. It too is very simple to navigate and to figure out to get your load order working write. There numerous video tutorials for both Vortex and tes5edit. Google (or whatever your preferred search engine is) will be your best friend if you let it. I'm still learning it all but gets easier with every tutorial.

[Corsayr]

? You are installing some mods via NMM, and some via Vortex?

 

Why?

 

Doing that would make prioritizing the asset order nearly impossible... (okay maybe just very very tricky)

 

but still, it is a TOTALLY WEIRD thing to do. 

[KLongad Sirtup]

@Lupine00 If there's any whipping scenes present in Devious Followers is it possible please for them to be hooked up to Punishing Lashes by mod event?

 

Also anyway thanks for the lightweight new form of devious followers where if not careful the player character will possibly end up enslaved.

[CaptainJ03]

6 hours ago, A Little Kitten said:

also i try disabling frostfall, and the 2 milk mods. those are the only 3 mods i didnt have in the previous set up when it was working.

Maybe the Milk Mods are the culprit? Someone else over in SLtR had issues with DD collars being unequipped, which is is something no mod should ever do.

 

I have been using TMM (TesModManager) since the dark days of Oblivion, but that nearly destroyed my game trying to install DD5, so I've just recently switched to Vortex. It works, I cannot say anything bad. Yet.

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Maybe the Milk Mods

MME never did anything bad to me, but it does have pre-requisites, which if missing could break your quests.

 

OK, MME has exploded all my body weights in the past, but that's different to removal of DD collars.

But there are other milk mods, so I guess, so maybe one of those is being pointed at here.

 

I'm not saying Vortex is bad - I really know nothing about it - but I see no benefit to switch from MO which does almost exactly what I want.

 

@KLongad Sirtup there isn't really any whipping in DF ... well there might be some mention of it, but I don't think there are any actual whipping mechanics.

But if there were whipping, SLD could punish you without a mod event.

Which is not to say I wouldn't support Punishing Lashes, but for now ... there's no whipping.

 

PL does something I sort of like, but not exactly how I'd like it, so I'm probably more interested in adding PL type perma-damage functionality to SLD, which could then be used for rapes and all kinds of other things too, and players would have a lot more ability to configure it.

 

I'm STILL waiting for a good animation for it to appear. Maybe one day...

The attack with whipping cane is OK I guess, but it's a little messy.

[Baltasarr80]

Quote

The attack with whipping cane is OK I guess

Whipping is all fine and dandy but ... what i dont like is when the charakter gets knocked to the side in the punishing sequence. He should be somewhat restrained in this kind of situation ... The last time i had a "whipping accident" i god whipped from a cliff ... with no possibility to react ...

 

 

 

Yeah i had the problem with the collars ... and im still not in whiterun to test if unequipping collar and reequipping the collar afterwords will somewhat help the problem ...

 

I really think that the biggest culprit in this debacle was MILK MAID but ... no answer there from the mod author ...

[Baltasarr80]

i installed by my last playthrough Toccata (a realy nice busty Follower) not a vanilla char as far as i know. I could use her as a devious follower so she works just fine ? Perhaps we could make a Support follower post non vanilla with which it worked? @ Lupine00?

[AndrewLRG]

1 hour ago, A Little Kitten said:

lydia nor any other npc in the game ahve the dialogue, i tried the debug

Can you recruit Lydia in a normal way? Say "Follow me, I need your help"? After 10-15 seconds she's suppose to say something like "I hope you won't cheat me". That does not happen? Make sure she is standing still, not sitting, not wearing Devious Devices. If that doesn't work make her follow you around the room for a bit.

[A Little Kitten]

Just now, AndrewLRG said:

Can you recruit Lydia in a normal way? Say "Follow me, I need your help"? After 10-15 seconds she's suppose to say something like "I hope you won't cheat me". That does not happen? Make sure she is standing still, not sitting, not wearing Devious Devices. If that doesn't work make her follow you around the room for a bit.

wait wait wait no way.

dont tell me thats all it takes. yea i can use vanila follow me, i havent tried sitting patiently for the mod to do something after.

 

i thought there is special dialogue for it something like "(devious followers)follow me).