Apropos2 Text DB Update

[WandererZero]

Oh, one other thought I did have here, although...not sure how feasible it is.

 

I use Bathing in Skyrim. It has the ability to use Soap. Soap as a W&T consumable in this context might be useful. After you've been assaulted, etc....a bath, cleaning up should do something to help your condition. Just throwing it out there.

[Eadoo]

15 hours ago, WandererZero said:

I like the mod how it is, and really enjoy the updates. That said before you start making cuts, nips and tucks:

 

I really don't mind any changes, so long as the ability to dump in my custom tuning files (things like WearAndTear_Consumables.txt, WearAndTear_Damage.txt) is not touched. Skooma stuff would be better as their own plugin I suppose...but drugs do, in fact...add wear and tear on a body. Skooma whores who drop before they get their next hookup with Radiant Prostitution? You bet. One of the best bits of apropos2 is how well it hand in glove works with many other mods like SW. I happen to use this functionality, and Skooma Whore, all tied into LAL for a start if I want it. Robust features are not a bad thing. Yes, they have to be maintained, but that's part and parcel to development.

 

I'd almost like to make the inverse suggestion: Giving people more options to fine tune their experience on their own terms, is typically the best way to go about changes like these. Different players play differently. If they didn't, modding wouldn't be a thing. Modding is the essence of divergent play, and apropos2 very much works in that vein.

 

I get worried when people start, or talk about cutting functionality/featuresets is all.

 

Yep yep. I've been using apropos2 in SSE for quite some time now. SSE has its own issues of course, but overall...a decent experience.

This mod is little more than text files.  You're free to change it up any way you see fit.  However, it might help for people to understand why I *need* to make such changes for the version I distribute.

Apropos 2 can only hold so many strings in memory.  The DB itself is read from the filesystem when an animation is running, and is only manipulated in memory for that short period of time.  The configurations, on the other hand (things like synonym definitions, consumable lists, W&T tier names, etc), are always in memory.  As they're being loaded, Apropos 2 fills its memory and then just stops.

I've learned from running into this problem before that the first thing to go is the W&T system (which I'm pretty sure is just a quirk of the fact that WearandTear comes late in the alphabet, so those files are read last).

There are new synonyms that I'd like to introduce, like {STRUGGLE}.  I'd also like to add new words to other synonyms.  I added something like four synonyms in the last update.  Ultimately, though, I can't continue to do that indefinitely because I'll run out of memory.

For that reason, it's imperative that I remove everything that isn't in active use by the community.  While I appreciate the desire to keep everything just in case, this is a case where I need to trim the unnecessary to make room for more desirable stuff.

I've made other decisions that I thought might be controversial, that people have written me to complain about.  For instance, I reduced this sequence in the default DB:

 

    "{FUCKED}": [
        "boned",
        "nailed",
        "fucked",
        "plowed",
        "shagged",
        "screwed",
        "banged",
        "pounded",
        "ravished",
        "bred",
        "taken"
    ],
    "{FUCKING}": [
        "fucking",
        "plowing",
        "shagging",
        "screwing",
        "banging",
        "mating",
        "humping",
        "breeding"
    ],
    "{FUCKS}": [
        "fucks",
        "plows",
        "bangs",
        "bones",
        "fucks",
        "nails",
        "plows",
        "pounds",
        "ravishes",
        "screws",
        "shags",
        "takes",
        "shags",
        "screws",
        "bangs",
        "mates",
        "humps",
        "breeds"
    ],
    "{FUCK}": [
        "fuck",
        "plough",
        "bang",
        "bone",
        "fuck",
        "nail",
        "plough",
        "pound",
        "ravish",
        "screw",
        "shag",
        "take",
        "shag",
        "screw",
        "shag",
        "hump",
        "mate",
        "breed"
    ],

 

To this:

 

    "{FUCK}": [
        "bang",
        "drill",
        "fuck",
        "hammer",
        "hump",
        "nail",
        "piston",
        "plow",
        "pound",
        "screw"
    ],

 

And then in the DB I changed {FUCKED} to {FUCK}ed, {FUCKING} to {FUCK}ing, and {FUCKS} to {FUCK}s.  I saved a *lot* of memory space that way pissing a few people off, while adding a BUNCH of new synonyms, and consumables.

The complaint is always the same..."You can't remove things!  People don't play the same as you/speak the same way you do/like the things you do!" and I understand that argument, but something has to give.  Rarely-used features, or features using an inordinate amount of space, are frequently going to be that something.

[Aki K]

9 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

This mod is little more than text files.  You're free to change it up any way you see fit.  However, it might help for people to understand why I *need* to make such changes for the version I distribute.

Apropos 2 can only hold so many strings in memory.  The DB itself is read from the filesystem when an animation is running, and is only manipulated in memory for that short period of time.  The configurations, on the other hand (things like synonym definitions, consumable lists, W&T tier names, etc), are always in memory.  As they're being loaded, Apropos 2 fills its memory and then just stops.

I've learned from running into this problem before that the first thing to go is the W&T system (which I'm pretty sure is just a quirk of the fact that WearandTear comes late in the alphabet, so those files are read last).

There are new synonyms that I'd like to introduce, like {STRUGGLE}.  I'd also like to add new words to other synonyms.  I added something like four synonyms in the last update.  Ultimately, though, I can't continue to do that indefinitely because I'll run out of memory.

For that reason, it's imperative that I remove everything that isn't in active use by the community.  While I appreciate the desire to keep everything just in case, this is a case where I need to trim the unnecessary to make room for more desirable stuff.

I've made other decisions that I thought might be controversial, that people have written me to complain about.  For instance, I reduced this sequence in the default DB:

 

    "{FUCKED}": [
        "boned",
        "nailed",
        "fucked",
        "plowed",
        "shagged",
        "screwed",
        "banged",
        "pounded",
        "ravished",
        "bred",
        "taken"
    ],
    "{FUCKING}": [
        "fucking",
        "plowing",
        "shagging",
        "screwing",
        "banging",
        "mating",
        "humping",
        "breeding"
    ],
    "{FUCKS}": [
        "fucks",
        "plows",
        "bangs",
        "bones",
        "fucks",
        "nails",
        "plows",
        "pounds",
        "ravishes",
        "screws",
        "shags",
        "takes",
        "shags",
        "screws",
        "bangs",
        "mates",
        "humps",
        "breeds"
    ],
    "{FUCK}": [
        "fuck",
        "plough",
        "bang",
        "bone",
        "fuck",
        "nail",
        "plough",
        "pound",
        "ravish",
        "screw",
        "shag",
        "take",
        "shag",
        "screw",
        "shag",
        "hump",
        "mate",
        "breed"
    ],

 

To this:

 

    "{FUCK}": [
        "bang",
        "drill",
        "fuck",
        "hammer",
        "hump",
        "nail",
        "piston",
        "plow",
        "pound",
        "screw"
    ],

 

And then in the DB I changed {FUCKED} to {FUCK}ed, {FUCKING} to {FUCK}ing, and {FUCKS} to {FUCK}s.  I saved a *lot* of memory space that way pissing a few people off, while adding a BUNCH of new synonyms, and consumables.

The complaint is always the same..."You can't remove things!  People don't play the same as you/speak the same way you do/like the things you do!" and I understand that argument, but something has to give.  Rarely-used features, or features using an inordinate amount of space, are frequently going to be that something.

So in theory, how difficult would it be if I decided to make a "comedy" version, where I swapped a bunch of words with the least sexy things I could think of?  Just mood killer after mood killer words.

[Eadoo]

14 minutes ago, Aki K said:

So in theory, how difficult would it be if I decided to make a "comedy" version, where I swapped a bunch of words with the least sexy things I could think of?  Just mood killer after mood killer words.

Not hard at all.  Just look at my Xmas database (still available) for an example. 

[Eadoo]

I've decided to continue on with my theme of matching holidays, and am now actively working on Valentine's Day content.

Unlike Christmas, the goal of this effort is add some intimacy-oriented content to the EXISTING database.  That's right {JERK}s, you're about to fall in love!

I'm interested in any "intimate" content folks have in private databases.  I can only be so creative at a time.  

Here's a preview:

 

"Filled with {LOVE}, I lock eyes with him as his {COCK} {EJACULATE}s in my {MOUTH}. I never want this to end."

[Eadoo]

Manual review status (posted so that I don't forget):

In progress:  FemaleActor_Male

Complete:  FemaleActor_Female, FemaleActor_Bear

[V3rius]

@Eadoo Maybe i'm too early but the 0.5 version is not up.

[Aki K]

On 1/8/2020 at 7:52 PM, Eadoo said:

I've decided to continue on with my theme of matching holidays, and am now actively working on Valentine's Day content.

Unlike Christmas, the goal of this effort is add some intimacy-oriented content to the EXISTING database.  That's right {JERK}s, you're about to fall in love!

I'm interested in any "intimate" content folks have in private databases.  I can only be so creative at a time.  

Here's a preview:

 

"Filled with {LOVE}, I lock eyes with him as his {COCK} {EJACULATE}s in my {MOUTH}. I never want this to end."

Can't wait for saint patricks day.  "He shot a load of piping hot {Guinness} down my throat."

 

Or 4th of July.  "He stuck his {DECLARATION} in my {FREEDOM} hole." 

 

Lol!

[General Neondaze]

5 hours ago, V3rius said:

@Eadoo Maybe i'm too early but the 0.5 version is not up.

Six hours later and still showing version 4.8. Is the version number incorrect?

[Eadoo]

2 hours ago, General Neondaze said:

Six hours later and still showing version 4.8. Is the version number incorrect?

Oh man.  45 minutes of work getting ready to publish this morning before I went to work and I FLUBBED ATTACHING THE FILE.

lol

Uploading now.

[General Neondaze]

31 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

Oh man.  45 minutes of work getting ready to publish this morning before I went to work and I FLUBBED ATTACHING THE FILE.

lol

Uploading now.

All good now.

 

I gotta say, you are a demon with all the updates. ?

[Skarab]

6 hours ago, Eadoo said:

Oh man.  45 minutes of work getting ready to publish this morning before I went to work and I FLUBBED ATTACHING THE FILE.

lol

Uploading now.

Thanks, what has been added/ changed?

 

[Eadoo]

8 hours ago, Skarab said:

Thanks, what has been added/ changed?

 

Here's what I put in the change log:

 

*  Completed review of FemaleActor_Female content

*  Ongoing review of FemaleActor_Male content

*  Continued refinement of synonym tokens

*  Added {LOVE} synonym

*  Removed Skooma Dealers of Skyrim consumables

[Skarab]

51 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

Here's what I put in the change log:

 

*  Completed review of FemaleActor_Female content

*  Ongoing review of FemaleActor_Male content

*  Continued refinement of synonym tokens

*  Added {LOVE} synonym

*  Removed Skooma Dealers of Skyrim consumables

Ok, thanks, I'll just download it and compare file sizes to see exactly what has changed.

 

As regards the work you are doing on the synonyms, I have to merge the new ones with the old ones as I have a lot of animation specific content built with  all the old synonyms, surely this is the case for many users? Are you sure that reducing the size of the synonym file is essential? My PC is ancient and has no trouble dealing with multiple Apropos content at the same time?

 

[Eadoo]

2 hours ago, Skarab said:

Ok, thanks, I'll just download it and compare file sizes to see exactly what has changed.

 

As regards the work you are doing on the synonyms, I have to merge the new ones with the old ones as I have a lot of animation specific content built with  all the old synonyms, surely this is the case for many users? Are you sure that reducing the size of the synonym file is essential? My PC is ancient and has no trouble dealing with multiple Apropos content at the same time?

 

Most of the synonym changes for this version will be additions rather than deletions.

 

Which version of Apropos2 (LE or SE) are you using?  Gooser has mentioned multiple times wanting to go to SSE for his development because this issue doesn't exist or isn't as pronounced there.  If you're running on LE, and you're merging the two synonym databases, you're probably affecting other parts of the mod without knowing it (W&T consumables, descriptions, etc).

 

I released a version of the database some time ago (0.4.2...?) and had people complain that the W&T subsystems were not working, which is how I diagnosed this in the first place.  Go back and look at posts #83-89 on this thread.

[CynicalCore]

can we maybe get a option to use a seperate slavetats overlay for the player? Cos i use Charmers of the reach (a new player editor) sadly it change the head meshe and all face overlays are missplaced for my char, so i cant replace the texture for fitting my char cos then all NPCs (which use the old vanilla headmeshe) have my overlay and is misplaced for them...

[Eadoo]

6 hours ago, CynicalCore said:

can we maybe get a option to use a seperate slavetats overlay for the player? Cos i use Charmers of the reach (a new player editor) sadly it change the head meshe and all face overlays are missplaced for my char, so i cant replace the texture for fitting my char cos then all NPCs (which use the old vanilla headmeshe) have my overlay and is misplaced for them...

You might be in the wrong place.  This mod is full of stars.

...I meant text files.

[Yuni]

Request: Make it so that increasing the maximum amount of wear-and-tear that the player can receive, affects how long it takes to reach each state of damage.

 

Source: I was reading over Apropos 2's description, and found this phrasing:

" The Maximum Wear Tear Value applies to the maximum accrued damage to any particular area. It is possible, without this cap, that a character getting gangbanged by a camp of Giants would perhaps be so abused that it would take forever to heal (more immersively, the character probably should just die, but that's a discussion for another day). So this just provides an upper maximum damage that cannot be exceeded. Any value above 800 really doesn't push the State above 9 anyways (in other words, accruing more raw W&T damage beyond 800 or so, will not apply even greater visible tattoos, or worse debuffs; it's just a higher damage value that has to be healed from). "

 

That explains, SO much about my Playthroughs. It seemed that no matter how high I set my "max health" in Apropos, I'd just end up fuck-destroyed within a few rounds of rape in SLSO (SexLab Separate Orgasm), to the point where I assumed something was broken and gave up on Apropos for a while. Only upon finding that today did I reailze what's going on: Changing my max wear/tear changes *nothing* other than how much "overdamage" can be dealt. That's not explained well in the game's MCM, it just says "maximum wear and tear" value! So I figured I'd request it, see if it's even possible.

[Eadoo]

8 hours ago, Yuni said:

Request: Make it so that increasing the maximum amount of wear-and-tear that the player can receive, affects how long it takes to reach each state of damage.

 

Source: I was reading over Apropos 2's description, and found this phrasing:

" The Maximum Wear Tear Value applies to the maximum accrued damage to any particular area. It is possible, without this cap, that a character getting gangbanged by a camp of Giants would perhaps be so abused that it would take forever to heal (more immersively, the character probably should just die, but that's a discussion for another day). So this just provides an upper maximum damage that cannot be exceeded. Any value above 800 really doesn't push the State above 9 anyways (in other words, accruing more raw W&T damage beyond 800 or so, will not apply even greater visible tattoos, or worse debuffs; it's just a higher damage value that has to be healed from). "

 

That explains, SO much about my Playthroughs. It seemed that no matter how high I set my "max health" in Apropos, I'd just end up fuck-destroyed within a few rounds of rape in SLSO (SexLab Separate Orgasm), to the point where I assumed something was broken and gave up on Apropos for a while. Only upon finding that today did I reailze what's going on: Changing my max wear/tear changes *nothing* other than how much "overdamage" can be dealt. That's not explained well in the game's MCM, it just says "maximum wear and tear" value! So I figured I'd request it, see if it's even possible.

Hmm...I'm not sure I can affect this in the DB configurations.  At least not directly.

You might be able to accomplish what you're looking for by modifying WearAndTear_Damage.txt and reducing all of the values proportionally, and then leave the max health at default.  You'd be effectively accomplishing the same thing, I think, since you'd be taking less damage, rather than raising the damage cap.

[VAAlucard]

Having this problem. 

 

I understand that there are problems with female_female. But this happens during male on female as well. 

[Caco Demon]

I understand you're in the process of an ongoing review of the Female_Male content of APROPOS. I've been using the last couple of versions of your DB updates, alongside some of my own personal alterations to certain texts. One thing I have noticed in particular is that the FemaleActor_Male_Vaginal_Rape_Orgasm content never seems to get played at all while using SL Separate Orgasms.

 

I only came to realize this after amending a number of the lines there. I suppose this is one of the things you're already looking into?

[Eadoo]

On 1/23/2020 at 7:41 PM, VAAlucard said:

Having this problem. 

 

I understand that there are problems with female_female. But this happens during male on female as well. 

I've seen this on occasion when Papyrus is stressed, or when Apropos2 runs out of memory.  You're not combining multiple synonym databases, are you?

Is it happening all of the time, or only during specific animations?

The female/female issues now only apply to inconsistencies in how {ACTIVE} and {PRIMARY} get assigned.  It appears to vary, so sometimes you'll end up with descriptions that imply your character is acting on themselves.

[Eadoo]

On 1/24/2020 at 4:48 AM, Caco Demon said:

I understand you're in the process of an ongoing review of the Female_Male content of APROPOS. I've been using the last couple of versions of your DB updates, alongside some of my own personal alterations to certain texts. One thing I have noticed in particular is that the FemaleActor_Male_Vaginal_Rape_Orgasm content never seems to get played at all while using SL Separate Orgasms.

 

I only came to realize this after amending a number of the lines there. I suppose this is one of the things you're already looking into?

No...I wasn't aware of that at all.  The most common cause of this is bad JSON in the DB file, but I just went and validated that file and it looks fine.

Could you try your own modified file at this site?

[Caco Demon]

9 hours ago, Eadoo said:

No...I wasn't aware of that at all.  The most common cause of this is bad JSON in the DB file, but I just went and validated that file and it looks fine.

Could you try your own modified file at this site?

Thanks for getting back to me on this!

 

I ran the .json through the checker as suggested, and it picked up a couple of quote marks and commas I'd missed which were evidently invalidating the file. I've since corrected it and will see how it all runs. I've bookmarked the .json checker for future use - should make these little issues a lot easier to pick up on.

 

Keep up the great work!

[aragonit]

A little thing... The files are always packed with the Data directory. That makes it impossible to install directly with MO, you always have to tell MO that the 2nd directory is the data directory. Maybe change the way you pack it? pretty please?

 

Another suggestion. Why not put the adjectives where the nouns are? The text file will be bigger, but strange combinations won't happen. Like "juicy pussy" and "massive boner" instead of just fragments that can go wrong.