Apropos2 Text DB Update

[Vauria]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:13 PM, Eadoo said:

Yeah, I saw your comment there a bit earlier and just kept my mouth shut. 

As far as I'm aware, what you're asking for currently isn't supported by Apropos2.  Gooser would have to modify it in order for it to pick up the additional event types generated by SLSO.

I believe it's come up before, and is kind of a chicken-egg scenario. If he does add support in the scripts, there's no support in the db, and no one's writing/splitting lines in the db because there's no support in the scripts. It also could get quite messy from a gameplay perspective; I don't play with SLSO because of this incompatibility, so I don't know exactly how it works, but if it switched to listening to separate events, if they trigger on stage switch, the orgasm line will be fighting with the stage's line, if both trigger at the same time, you need to catch both events and combine them to fire an apropos event with a simultaneous orgasm message, or otherwise it'll be a more stilted primary cums line, then active cums line after, with no reference between the two. Is that workable, or will a new widget just for orgasms below the main one be needed? One for each actor? How many lines can the player read at once?

 

Then for the lines themselves, we'd need to be able to tell the difference between active/primary and male/female orgasms at least, but what about the stage it occurs at? Same lines aren't going to fit when he cums at the end of the animation versus one or two stages in. So we could be turning `FemaleActor_Male_Vaginal_Orgasm.txt` into `_Orgasm_Pre_Female`, `_Orgasm_Pre_Male`, `_Orgasm_Pre_Both`, `_Orgasm_End_Female`, `_Orgasm_End_Male`, and `_Orgasm_End_Both`... five extra files for every `_Orgasm` in the database, which at current count in the official is 396...

 

Anyway, it's not a simple issue.

[Eadoo]

57 minutes ago, Vauria said:

I believe it's come up before, and is kind of a chicken-egg scenario. If he does add support in the scripts, there's no support in the db, and no one's writing/splitting lines in the db because there's no support in the scripts. It also could get quite messy from a gameplay perspective; I don't play with SLSO because of this incompatibility, so I don't know exactly how it works, but if it switched to listening to separate events, if they trigger on stage switch, the orgasm line will be fighting with the stage's line, if both trigger at the same time, you need to catch both events and combine them to fire an apropos event with a simultaneous orgasm message, or otherwise it'll be a more stilted primary cums line, then active cums line after, with no reference between the two. Is that workable, or will a new widget just for orgasms below the main one be needed? One for each actor? How many lines can the player read at once?

 

Then for the lines themselves, we'd need to be able to tell the difference between active/primary and male/female orgasms at least, but what about the stage it occurs at? Same lines aren't going to fit when he cums at the end of the animation versus one or two stages in. So we could be turning `FemaleActor_Male_Vaginal_Orgasm.txt` into `_Orgasm_Pre_Female`, `_Orgasm_Pre_Male`, `_Orgasm_Pre_Both`, `_Orgasm_End_Female`, `_Orgasm_End_Male`, and `_Orgasm_End_Both`... five extra files for every `_Orgasm` in the database, which at current count in the official is 396...

 

Anyway, it's not a simple issue.

This touches on something I've done some thinking over.  Hopefully you'll indulge me for a few moments.

When I first started working on my version of the DB, I made a choice to intentionally remove content.  These types of content bug me:

1.  Incest.  

2.  Anything that depicts human bodies, especially genitalia, as disgusting.

3.  Scat/pissing.

I've been most aggressive at removing the incest.  I always thought that I would include some sort of "incest-enabled" distribution of my DB later.

 

Between then (when I started) and now, I've been contacted by a variety of people, both in direct message and posts, requesting contents of different varieties.  Most of them are fairly polite.  Some of them are demanding.  A few are insulting.  The worst was the one who demanded that I roll back my most recent release and go back and start over because I removed words they liked.

I've ground through content that does nothing for me.  F/F took so long partially because I got really, really, REALLY bored working on it.  And I'm putting off working on it again despite the fact that it clearly needs more work still. 

I've also seen projects crop up that substantially modify my own work.  And that's great!  I love that other works are based on my own, or modifying mine!  It also lets me know that if I do the majority of the work, others are capable of continuing to evolve the DB to their own needs.
Not to mention that it would be pretty crappy of me to base my work on a database cultivated years before I was even playing Skyrim, and then get upset about derivative works. 

But that brings me to the point: I no longer feel any responsibility to work on elements of the DB that are of no personal interest.  I have plenty of work in areas where I actually enjoy the content, and feel a need to create it, and others seem to be willing to step in to work on those areas I don't.

 

Somebody needs to care about Apropos being SLSO-aware that they can will it into existence, not just through desire, but also work.  So...if @gooser says he won't code support for it because no content exists, would YOU volunteer to create that content to help motivate him?

 

[Vauria]

12 minutes ago, Eadoo said:

[...] would YOU volunteer to create that content to help motivate him?

Sure, I'd love a more nuanced orgasm system, and would be happy to help, but that's if we could figure out a way that works.

[Eadoo]

3 hours ago, Vauria said:

Sure, I'd love a more nuanced orgasm system, and would be happy to help, but that's if we could figure out a way that works.

Ok.

I can ask him what's on the roadmap for Apropos3 and see if this has crossed his thoughts.  If it has (and he's willing to share that with me) I'll hit you up. 

[slicksly]

14 hours ago, Vauria said:

I believe it's come up before, and is kind of a chicken-egg scenario. If he does add support in the scripts, there's no support in the db, and no one's writing/splitting lines in the db because there's no support in the scripts. It also could get quite messy from a gameplay perspective; I don't play with SLSO because of this incompatibility, so I don't know exactly how it works, but if it switched to listening to separate events, if they trigger on stage switch, the orgasm line will be fighting with the stage's line, if both trigger at the same time, you need to catch both events and combine them to fire an apropos event with a simultaneous orgasm message, or otherwise it'll be a more stilted primary cums line, then active cums line after, with no reference between the two. Is that workable, or will a new widget just for orgasms below the main one be needed? One for each actor? How many lines can the player read at once?

 

Then for the lines themselves, we'd need to be able to tell the difference between active/primary and male/female orgasms at least, but what about the stage it occurs at? Same lines aren't going to fit when he cums at the end of the animation versus one or two stages in. So we could be turning `FemaleActor_Male_Vaginal_Orgasm.txt` into `_Orgasm_Pre_Female`, `_Orgasm_Pre_Male`, `_Orgasm_Pre_Both`, `_Orgasm_End_Female`, `_Orgasm_End_Male`, and `_Orgasm_End_Both`... five extra files for every `_Orgasm` in the database, which at current count in the official is 396...

 

Anyway, it's not a simple issue.

As a quic disclaimer; take EVERY bit of how stuff works beneath the surface of mods I say with a mountain of salt - I'm not a programmer, and my understanding of code reading is half-way at best.

 

As it is now, I feel there's already need for separate widgets for separate content descriptions. INTRO and ORGASM events are poorly placed in the current context as they "crash"with the stage messages (Stage1 and whichever stage hits when Orgasm hits (last stage for non-separate, often on stage advancement on separate)). I'd have one widget for the stages (both advancing and going back), and one widget for everything else (intro + orgasm + WTupdates + virginity lost). With the same separation for NPC widgets, of course. While there'd still be "crashing" descriptions, I feel this would be a good change that balances function with work, as the separation would lower the frequency to a better level without upping the complexity of modifying the mod too much (I think), and also balance the ammount of concurrent text on the screen.

 

As for your second paragraph; I think you're overcomplicating this. The system assigns orgasm based on the sexlab orgasm event (I'm guessing), which either plays at individual orgasm (Separate) or at the last stage of the animation (regular). We'd need to make descriptions for ACTIVE_ORGASM and PRIMARY_ORGASM (with PRIMARY2 etc. for 3+ actors), yes, but I don't see why the other descriptions you're mentioning would be relevant. The gender for each position is already stated explicitly in the animation, so Apropos wouldn't need to recognize a difference here - we'd just do as we already do; write the description for PRIMARY_ORGASM for FA_male ANAL (for instance) from the female standpoint, with ACTIVE_ORGASM in FA_male ANAL from the male perspective. Your thought-process about WHEN the orgasm happens shouldn't be something we need to consider, I believe, as the orgasm messages will be displayed when the sexlab events gets read by Apropos no matter at what stage of animation the event is triggering. 

 

As for ORGASM_BOTH or ORGASM_ALL; I suppose this could exist, but the current system does not really use this either. It's usually either describing the male orgasm (for most FA_male orgasms) anyhow, so this'd need to be rewritten anyhow for a more immersive orgasm description. Having the ACTIVE_ORGASM as the "default" message for non-separate orgasms, as it typically is now, wouldn't be problematic I feel. Optimally, any simulatenous orgasm situations such as what's forced through the default Sexlab orgasm event would also result in a ORGASM_BOTH description in the existing system, but it's not like that, generally only focusing on the male climax. This could also be fixed, but in the sake of portioning the work into doable segments, I'd suggest leaving the ORGASM_ACTIVE as the current male-centric orgasm system would be entirely sufficient.

 

In total, if I'm thinking correct, it would be a doubling of orgasm events to write text for, sure (plus some more for all 3+ events), yet I don't think that'd be a monstrous undertaking in itself. I'm already writing descriptions (in general) for my own benefit, so I wouldn't at all mind joining in on a greater endevour for something like this. We'd need an agreed-upon synonym setlist and envisioning of the various stage descriptions first, tho.

[worik]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:07 AM, worik said:

Note to myself: when I update later these days, I'll make a screenshot series ..

On 4/18/2020 at 3:56 PM, Eadoo said:

Thank you, that would be awesome.  I can link directly to your screenshots from the mod description, too, if you won't mind.

No, I don't mind

 

Here we go:

Updating Apropos2 Text DB with MO1

Spoiler

Left pane:

I start with the main mod at position #311 and at #312 my old DB in the 0.5.9 version. You can see, that I took the liberty to rename the mods.

 

Let's select it and have a detailed look:

 

We have the "Apropos DB" tree inside the main mod

 

That's exactly what the "DB Update" is supposed to look, once we're done.

 

Let's look into my old "DB"

 

See? All the same, internally.

 

Now, the update.

In MO the top left icon:

Hmpf! My mouse pointer isn't visible in the screenshot... sorry

 

This is, what it looks like

 

Right click at "<data>" and select "set data directory". MO1 can't detect it automatically, because the structure gives no hints. But we can do that manually.

And we continue to ignore the red warning at the bottom. It's not relevant here.

 

Next step: I rename the mod to my liking. But you can skip that, if you like.

BUT: I strongly recommend to give it a different name than the main mod! Because that's the point of using MO.

 

Another warning. ?Yes, yes, yes, .. ? .. we know exactly what we are doing here => ignore

 

And since we are updating, of course I have an older version. => REPLACE

Tick the box, if you want to keep a backup of the older version. I didn't.

 

Now, since we have an odd mod structure, MO1 deselcts the mod in the left pane and pushes it to the bottom of your list.

Let's fix that and push it back to my previous #312

And personally, I like to add the version number.

 

Done ✅

 

Have fun ?

PS: added it in my blog, too. So that I can remember where to find it again in two month  https://www.loverslab.com/blogs/entry/11008-patchwork-updating-apropos2-text-db-with-mo1/

 

[PubliusNV]

30 minutes ago, worik said:

Here we go:

Updating Apropos2 Text DB with MO1

Very nice post.  That's exactly what I've done also.  Once installed, you can, if you wish, get rid of the red X box on the newly installed mod.  It's been a while since I did it, but I think if you right click on the mod there's an option to "Ignore errors" that you can choose to get rid of it.

[aragonit]

For all of you, who seem to have trouble installing this in MO, I made some screenshots for you.

I intentionally created a new mod for this, to overwrite all old files, but not accidentally overwrite all.

 

The first picture shows which folders are overwritten.

 

 

The modname has to be changed to the folder I'm using to overwrite the old database. You can see that the directory structure is identical to the mod with the ESP.

 

 

Since there is no ESP, MO will complain. Just ignore it and let it install.

[aragonit]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:54 PM, PubliusNV said:

Very nice post.  That's exactly what I've done also.  Once installed, you can, if you wish, get rid of the red X box on the newly installed mod.  It's been a while since I did it, but I think if you right click on the mod there's an option to "Ignore errors" that you can choose to get rid of it.

It is not an error. It is just the icon that tells me that there is no esp or esm files on top level, which may or may not be desired.

[Eadoo]

The 0.6.0 State Of The Mod Address!

 

Ok!  With the release of 0.6.0 the primary focus of this mod is shifting!

Up until now the focus has been primarily on reviewing and extending the existing content.  That work is now largely done.  Hour after hour, day after day, I've reviewed grammar, spelling, and strange word usage.  I've added conversation between the actors, and some other odds and ends as it entertained me.  Some of this work will continue, but I won't be hunting for it; instead I'll be looking for it during my play sessions.

With Phase I of the project completed, you may ask: what is Phase II?

NEW content.  Ever had a sexual encounter with a Wisp Mother or other rare creature and noticed that there wasn't any Apropos text?  How about the boring GoBack strings?  The weirdly-missing Oral content on many of the creature actors?

So.

Thank you all for your bug reports so far; keep them coming in.  I appreciate your patience in taking this journey with me.  It's been great fun so far!

[gooser]

 

[gooser]

Somebody said Chickens? Or Giant Chickens? 

 

 

[Eadoo]

4 hours ago, gooser said:

 

Lol...I truly needed this.  You have no idea how many time I watched that MNC Pecking animation saying to myself..."Ok...how do I make this sexy now...?"

[LadyAneka]

Hi, I'm new to the mod and have a couple of questions, sorry if they've been answered before:

 

1) If I don't like certain synonyms, do I just delete them from the "synonyms.txt" file?

2) If I wanted to add my own text for particular animations that aren't included (and therefore it's just taking the generic text for "female actor-male anal" or whatever), what do I need to do?

 

Many thanks

[Eadoo]

6 hours ago, LadyAneka said:

Hi, I'm new to the mod and have a couple of questions, sorry if they've been answered before:

 

1) If I don't like certain synonyms, do I just delete them from the "synonyms.txt" file?

2) If I wanted to add my own text for particular animations that aren't included (and therefore it's just taking the generic text for "female actor-male anal" or whatever), what do I need to do?

 

Many thanks

I'm making an assumption about your question here, but I think you're not talking about a synonym token.  I think you mean an element of a token.  For instance, in Synonyms.txt:

 

    "{ACCEPTING}": [
        "accepting",
        "approving",
        "enthusiastic",
        "excited",
        "gracious",
        "receptive",
        "welcoming",
        "willing"
    ],

 

You couldn't just delete the entire {ACCEPTING} token and have things work.  However, you *could* delete any line in there and the word would go away, AFTER you reloaded the configuration (see the install instructions for this mod).

For your second question, you'd need to modify UniqueAnimations.txt to include the animation in question, and then create a corresponding directory for your new text files.  There are a ton of examples already in UniqueAnimations.txt, and corresponding text directories.

 

Two requests:

1.  Let me know the synonym element that is bothering you.  There's a chance it's a word I'm testing out and not particularly attached to.  I've removed words before when users mentioned them being weird.  I don't need to know *why* you don't like it; just that you don't.

2.  Share your new content with me.  I'm very, very lazy and like it when other people do my work for me. 

[Skarab]

7 hours ago, LadyAneka said:

Hi, I'm new to the mod and have a couple of questions, sorry if they've been answered before:

 

1) If I don't like certain synonyms, do I just delete them from the "synonyms.txt" file?

2) If I wanted to add my own text for particular animations that aren't included (and therefore it's just taking the generic text for "female actor-male anal" or whatever), what do I need to do?

 

Many thanks

 

1) Yes, just delete or better, change the word you don't like but be aware of the structure of the list and note that the last item does not have a comma following it.

 

2) The best way is to use Apropos Edit:

 

[Guest]

You broke two files.

ERROR: .\FemaleActor\FemaleActor_WearTearReduced_Oral.txt -> Expecting , delimiter: line 154 column 2 (char 14297)
ERROR: .\FemaleActor_Male\FemaleActor_Male_Vaginal_Stage8.txt -> Expecting , delimiter: line 160 column 2 (char 14243)

 

[LadyAneka]

6 hours ago, Eadoo said:

I'm making an assumption about your question here, but I think you're not talking about a synonym token.  I think you mean an element of a token.  For instance, in Synonyms.txt:

 

    "{ACCEPTING}": [
        "accepting",
        "approving",
        "enthusiastic",
        "excited",
        "gracious",
        "receptive",
        "welcoming",
        "willing"
    ],

 

You couldn't just delete the entire {ACCEPTING} token and have things work.  However, you *could* delete any line in there and the word would go away, AFTER you reloaded the configuration (see the install instructions for this mod).

For your second question, you'd need to modify UniqueAnimations.txt to include the animation in question, and then create a corresponding directory for your new text files.  There are a ton of examples already in UniqueAnimations.txt, and corresponding text directories.

 

Two requests:

1.  Let me know the synonym element that is bothering you.  There's a chance it's a word I'm testing out and not particularly attached to.  I've removed words before when users mentioned them being weird.  I don't need to know *why* you don't like it; just that you don't.

2.  Share your new content with me.  I'm very, very lazy and like it when other people do my work for me. 

Thanks, yes that was what I meant. There were a few synonyms that meant nothing to me - I guess they're used in the US but not here in the UK ("cooch" was one) and I just personally associate "twat" much more as a synonym for "jerk" than vagina (again, this is probably a UK thing). I tried it out, and reloaded the configuration and it worked fine, thank you (once I found the comma I'd not deleted when I removed a word that was last in the list!). Don't worry about deleting them from your main list, I'm happy to alter my own list to my personal taste.

 

I'll definitely share any new content, although it'll likely just be the second person parts as that's what I'm using.

[LadyAneka]

5 hours ago, Skarab said:

 

1) Yes, just delete or better, change the word you don't like but be aware of the structure of the list and note that the last item does not have a comma following it.

 

2) The best way is to use Apropos Edit:

 

Thanks, I'll definitely give Apropos Edit a try. I found out about the end comma the hard way - luckily, I also found the link to the JSON verifier a few pages back.

[Naps-On-Dirt]

7 hours ago, Eadoo said:

Let me know the synonym element that is bothering you.  There's a chance it's a word I'm testing out and not particularly attached to.  I've removed words before when users mentioned them being weird.  I don't need to know *why* you don't like it; just that you don't.

"Womb" is a poor synonym for vagina.  Its a whole different -internal- organ, it just sounds weird in alot of its usages in apropos. 

[Eadoo]

8 hours ago, Hawk9969 said:

You broke two files.

ERROR: .\FemaleActor\FemaleActor_WearTearReduced_Oral.txt -> Expecting , delimiter: line 154 column 2 (char 14297)
ERROR: .\FemaleActor_Male\FemaleActor_Male_Vaginal_Stage8.txt -> Expecting , delimiter: line 160 column 2 (char 14243)

 

Great, fixed, thank you!

I think I need to spend some time this week developing a pre-publication JSON validation workflow.  

[Eadoo]

3 hours ago, LadyAneka said:

Thanks, yes that was what I meant. There were a few synonyms that meant nothing to me - I guess they're used in the US but not here in the UK ("cooch" was one) and I just personally associate "twat" much more as a synonym for "jerk" than vagina (again, this is probably a UK thing). I tried it out, and reloaded the configuration and it worked fine, thank you (once I found the comma I'd not deleted when I removed a word that was last in the list!). Don't worry about deleting them from your main list, I'm happy to alter my own list to my personal taste.

 

I'll definitely share any new content, although it'll likely just be the second person parts as that's what I'm using.

Ah yes, regionalization.  The English here is unabashedly American...but...

This makes me consider that maybe there are two tiers to this:

1.  Completely regionalized American English

2.  American English that isn't "hostile" to other English regions

There are words like twat that have completely different meanings in the US and England (and, presumably, other places as well).  I could just...not use those. 

Anyhow...filed away for further consideration later.

[lightspeed77]

is this very compatible with sexist guards?

and is there any way to filter dialogue from consensual and non?

[Eadoo]

17 hours ago, lightspeed77 said:

is this very compatible with sexist guards?

and is there any way to filter dialogue from consensual and non?

I run both.  

The difference between the two in the database is pretty straightforward...non-consensual strings are all stored in files with the name _Rape in them.  Filtering one or the other is as simple as deleting them.

[Dojo_dude]

Any reason why you removed
    "Spider Egg": 15,
    "Chaurus Eggs": 30

 

from Consumables?