Having nice things? Fuck you.

[27X]

A gentle reminder of why charging money for content inevitably fucks communities over.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/av4f5f/skyrim_together_is_stealing_skse_source_code/

[SpyVsPie]

Just saw that earlier. Gotta get dem patreon dollas.

[Captain Cobra]

Not surprised that they did that when they decided to stop being open source.

[D_ManXX2]

its not only about paying this is mod theft.. they ripped off SKSE team and are charging for stolen asset they did not even make.

This is why most people now mod and just refuse to release any source code with their mods. To prevent mod theft from occuring, what if SKSE team start to refuse to include their source code when they make an update ??

[MadMansGun]

yea....there fucked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWP9N3C46YU

 

[DoctaSax]

Theft is theft. It's done by people who release for free too.

[KoolHndLuke]

Yeah, that's pretty low to fuck the SKSE team over to make 35 GRAND A MONTH!!!! But they'll keep doing it because...... 35 FUCKING GRAND A MONTH!!!!! I'm willing to bet most of those patreons know too and just don't give a fuck. No wonder Beth wants to make a cash grab on mods. Shit like this will sink the whole fucking community. FAST!! 

[Grey Cloud]

Daft question but are the Skyrim Online team something to do with Skyrim online or is it just their name?

[woodsman30]

Ah the love of money and the cost you are willing to go to make it. This is not a new topic but one that has plagued gaming and modding for sometime. This is also why some modders stop modding tired of their stuff being claimed by others and that list is a long one.... Nothing new under the sun ..... always remember that.

[27X]

2 hours ago, woodsman30 said:

Nothing new under the sun

There has been a distinct shift in the last four years, and sure while this has been a thing since the days of Jedi Knight 2 (remember TimFX? Dude actually stole shit from me, no joke) DooM ]I[. (got some remodeled demons and scripts 'borrowed' or even re-borrowed ) In this case it's a step WAY above, this is the open theft of framework and the means of accessing the base functions of a commercial platform and engine.

 

This isn't someone uploading a lara croft model to gmod's workshop, this is someone taking DarkRP's Lua fork and charging money for it.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Aside from the Reddit post and here, it seems no one is talking about this and getting the story out there.

 

At this point it wouldn't surprise me if ST was just a well coordinated scam to bilk people out of money and doesn't actually work. Call my cynical but the whole idea has always struck me as a technical impossibility if folks were using different mod loads. The potential conflicts would rapidly snowball until everyone's game crashes. I've even said as much in other posts about it. At best anyone participating would need to be using the exact same mods in the exact same load order. And how would folks even meet up? A common server? Wouldn't Bethesda nix that? Or at least try to muscle in and charge folks?

[woodsman30]

 

says it very well and implications

[Ernest Lemmingway]

I wonder how many people will still support ST when this story gets more widespread? Too many folks want a multiplayer Skyrim experience, consequences be damned!

[Munken]

is it so past ppl to ask for permission?

[phillout]

16 hours ago, 27X said:

why charging money for content inevitably fucks communities over.

 

I think the problem highlighted here is a different one. Namely - you can't build communities w/o some sort of an open-source policy, otherwise the community will inevitably be fucked over at some point. As probably everyone who ever built a plugin knows, you can't build it w/o including the main SKSE source files - those not governed by the commons license. This issue is usually ignored, but technically every DLL plugin out there is "stealing SKSE source code" just the same. Technically ST team could provide their own loader and change their code to behave like a usual SKSE plugin - this still wouldn't stop copyright infringement. Due to the proprietary licensing policy of SKSE you can't use it to build any plugin w/o infringing on their copyright unless you have an explicit permission.

 

If SKSE team would choose to publish their work under some OSS license, this would solve a lot of problems - probably including the one of plugins being published w/o distributing the source code and then abandoned, never updated, et cetera - and now no one else can update them either. Because there is no source and even if there is one - you can't fork it and update it, because copyright.  You can't fork the project, fix the bugs and release the updated version of a plugin abandoned a couple of years ago - because copyright.

 

So much effort has been wasted because of this problem.

[27X]

7 hours ago, Munken said:

is it so past ppl to ask for permission?

Yamashi would never have received permission, because he's a liar and a thief, and this isn't the first time he's done this.

 

Point of fact the UA/EULA of SKSE specifically forbids the skyrim together team from using ANY part of SKSE, because two of SKSE's authors had already dealt with his thieving ass before.

 

 

[RW311]

So the project is closed source and someone running it (the main honcho?) is a known thief and it's generating decent revenue on patreon..... hmmmm

 

[yatol]

7 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

The potential conflicts would rapidly snowball until everyone's game crashes. I've even said as much in other posts about it. At best anyone participating would need to be using the exact same mods in the exact same load order. And how would folks even meet up? A common server? Wouldn't Bethesda nix that? Or at least try to muscle in and charge folks?

no idea how they made their mod, since don't care about that mod

but no need to have same mods as the others

 

x play with npc85, in game he see aela npc85

y play with bijin, in game he see aela bijin

how is that a problem?

 

the problem, it's x starting a civil war siege, while y have done that

if it's x that have start the server, siege should load fine, for x, not y (that siege is at stage 200 in his save, and it's x that start that stuff, not y)

while x is fighting guards, avoiding obstacles, y is walking throught that without problem, and wondering why the town npc are missing

and the guards, if they attack y, that can't see them, what can he do?

 

x play with requiem, y don't have requiem

x and y travel somewhere, game pick something from that area leveled list, it pick npc a for x and npc b for y

x is fighting against a bear, while y is running after a bandit (nobody understand what the other one is doing)

 

there was a beta of that thing? result?

i play with bodychange, even if you have bodychange, if you come in my game, all you will see it's a nord with dragonbone armor

if you are lucky

if you can load my bodychange armor from my load order, you will see floating vanilla head, because in your bodychange folder, it's not the same sbp as the ones i use, with my armor whatever you have in bodychange folder won't load

 

 

[27X]

3 hours ago, RW311 said:

So the project is closed source and someone running it (the main honcho?) is a known thief and it's generating decent revenue on patreon..... hmmmm

 

P much.

[Sylandras]

mod stealing and selling (sims 4 patreons, other skyrim patreons, fallout 4 patreons etc) started becoming big when bethesda started charging mods. And no, what bethesda sells is MODS...not DLC or whatever code name they gave it. So bethesda paved the way for this. Well sims 4 I'm not sure actually, that isn't a bethesda game...but there is also a TON of sims 4 patreons for mods too, and didn't notice till after bethesda started selling mods, unless bethesda just made me more apparent at seeing mod selling

[phillout]

30 minutes ago, Sylandras said:

but there is also a TON of sims 4 patreons for mods too, and didn't notice till after bethesda started selling mods, unless bethesda just made me more apparent at seeing mod selling

1) "Mod selling" and "mod stealing" aren't the same. In fact "selling" and "stealing" are kind of opposite things.

 

2) Correlation doesn't mean causation.

 

Throwing in just a bit of logic here.

[goaway]

A high profile patreon project making tens of thousands of dollars a month turns out be run by people who have no idea how to deliver what they promised?  Shocker.  

 

Maybe at some point patrons of these years long projects will start collectively insisting on knowing where the money goes.  New team member or new BMW?  Still want to pledge?

[Sylandras]

43 minutes ago, phillout said:

1) "Mod selling" and "mod stealing" aren't the same. In fact "selling" and "stealing" are kind of opposite things.

 

2) Correlation doesn't mean causation.

 

Throwing in just a bit of logic here.

people were making a big deal of skyrim together being sold just the other day

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/aug73b/is_skyrim_together_in_danger/

 

So it is an issue in the modding community, whether its selling or stealing its the same sort of issue even if not exactly the same. And I often see people complaining of mods being sold, but that was before bethesda started selling their own mods so maybe that part changed

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Juicehead put up a video about this. I've learned to take his vids with a grain of salt, but this one does explain a lot.

[SpyVsPie]

Skyrim Together team sure seem like some classy gents. 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/avzyq5/im_lagulous_the_original_creator_of_skyrim/?st=jsqexy9k&sh=686a2424