Sexlab Survival

[Guest AthenaESIV]

3 hours ago, markdf said:

 

My alternate perk menus might be more useful for Survival, since they work on LE as well as SSE (and I think Monoman is committed to LE).

 

You mentioned iWant for a lot of things and how easy it made adding bars, it def gave me a few different ideas for both Whorecrux and customizations for other mods (like FHU) I want to build.

 

GUI bars you can toggle on and off and the perk trees are my favorite 'always there' methods for communicating to the player right now. I like Active Effects somewhat, but 2 things I do not like are the SkyUI widgets for them (especially in how it related to LL mods) are pretty noninformative, and I've seen how lots of active effects can have a severe negative impact on how quickly SexLab scenes initiate.

 

I really like how SLS uses NPCs to communicate status to the player, and def will be adding those sorts of NPC tells heavily into WCX for the parts I add in.

 

In general it seems communicating what is happening, and what mod is doing stuff to the PC is a severe shortcoming with LL mods. It's a problem in WCX for now, but I'm keen to map out and implement ways to fix that. Hopefully lots of LL mods make that a priority in the future so you don't have to go to an MCM to see wtf is going on.

 

Sorry Mono, I'll stop distracting the SLS convo, lol

Edited June 5, 2021 by AthenaESIV

[Nazzzgul666]

19 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Doing some changes to the whole animal friend thing and looking for ideas regarding balancing etc. Currently you:

 

- Start small - hares/foxes/goats. Can't tame tougher creatures until you level up your 'wildling' level

- Level up by fucking your 'Tier 1' creatures. 10 orgasms per tier to level up. 

- Taming hostile creatures - need to hurt them enough that they run away. Which means you need to best them before you can tame them. Taming involves approaching them, naked and crawling. Must make them orgasm to tame them. 

- Gain 'allure' points on level up. Spend allure points to tame creatures. Tougher creatures need more allure points. 

- Can instruct followers to stay/follow/fight/flee.

- Add new creatures via json.

 

Not sure if i even get it right, is this entirely new or the fondling creatures system?
I kinda used it for two purposes only... get a horse temprorarily and heal limbs by fucking trolls. I don't think i want to fondle 120 creatures to do that... i'd prefer if either the amount necessary would be customizable or sex with creatures in general counts, like rape from other mods or wartimes jobs.
Or could friendly creatures still be fondable without the necessary skill? I'm not even sure if all creatures flee, though. Never seen anything above deer on your list doing it. Might be noteworthy that Naked Defeat calms creatures if you approach naked which could make the game very easy then... but i don't think it's your job to judge how difficult people want their game.

Overall it sounds a lot like untamed which is certainly a nice mod, but i'm not sure if we need a second one. But anyways... here's my thoughts:

- Several bleedouts sound like an option as well as to revive them, although i would prefer having them more powerful, getting bonus health and damage? The hare of doom sounds like a worthy goal. Might b a combination of these though.
- I'd like a possibility to command them to rape NPCs in general, ideally even hostiles. If possible, you could send them towards a direction in sneak mode and they jump on an enemy in that area. If they take damage the animation will stop and they'll be hostile again so you can't just punch them to death meanwhile, but some wear and tear would be applied. Could be one of the powers gained.
- Healing outside battle generally isn't a big issue imho, but - maybe along with perks, using a system like in campfire? - a temp bonus would be nice. More mana/health/stamina/damage/armor. Pick perks to chose which boni you get from fucking. Might apply to both you and the creature, or only one of these for lower tiers... might be smaller but permanent for the (kind? specific?) creature to get the hare of doom.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Nazzzgul666

[Monoman1]

16 hours ago, AthenaESIV said:

That is unless lots of people here want to fuck rabbits? 

I've already got the progression system in place. Besides you need to gate access to powerful creatures somehow. Untamed had this problem with unfettered power - Jump into the middle of a bunch of sabrecats or trolls and press the shout button. Viola. Instant (lame) power. I think you'll be able to change the progression system via the json anyway. 

16 hours ago, AthenaESIV said:

and that group would use a perk tree (or magic effects / other ideas*) related to those animal's inherent characteristics. 

Perk tress for different creature types would be pretty cool. But definitely won't be there initially. Plus I've no idea how it could be accomplished. 

16 hours ago, AthenaESIV said:

10/10, for this my only advice would be framing the system to be as simplistic as possible to avoid irritating buggy behavior that is a burden on you to constantly fix, and ruins players' save games. Several mods change how creatures aggro, so maybe som

It's done via alias so it should override default behavior. Should.

16 hours ago, AthenaESIV said:

Love the idea of a 'Wildling" level, and also the "Allure" / Animal Allure / Animalistic Allure points which would function similar to perk points maybe?

Allure points are simply to limit the size of your 'pack'. Another thing untamed doesn't do. 

Tame a dog - Allure points -2

Dog get killed - Allure points +2

Allure point pool size is determined by your level. 

16 hours ago, AthenaESIV said:

Creatures rag doll & bleed out when injured.

Been running into problems with this. Actually, the system itself is working perfectly. But it's creating 'side problems'. If a creature gets downed in the middle of a narrow corridor it blocks the AI from passing. Thus allowing you to lame melee enemies from afar. I can not find any way to disable the collision on the downed creature. I've tried SetMotionType and TranslateTo but they still block paths. So the only solution really is to let creatures 'technically' die and just resurrect them later should you be able to 'revive' them. 

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Monoman1

[Monoman1]

14 hours ago, markdf said:

My alternate perk menus

What's this? Link?

I don't know about adding another requirement though. 

 

[Monoman1]

2 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Not sure if i even get it right, is this entirely new or the fondling creatures system?

It's an extension of the temporary horse thing. Creature fondling remains as it is. 

2 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Healing outside battle generally isn't a big issue imho,

It is if you use a 'no health regen' mod. There's not much use for healing spells in vanilla otherwise IMO. 

2 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Pick perks to chose

Ah maybe later down the line. Right now I just want to get a basic system in place. 

[merryMalfunctioning]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

What's this? Link?

I don't know about adding another requirement though. 

 

 

It's not really a mod in and of itself, it's just a way of a using UIExtensions and PapyrusUtil or JContainers to implement a simple perk menu.

 

I used it in Devourment Refactor which is here on LL.

[Nazzzgul666]

3 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

It's an extension of the temporary horse thing. Creature fondling remains as it is. 

It is if you use a 'no health regen' mod. There's not much use for healing spells in vanilla otherwise IMO. 

Ah maybe later down the line. Right now I just want to get a basic system in place. 

I see, cool.  And i agree, but even with healing spells... using them outside of combat isn't really a challenge, right? It does change a bit with your addictions so i guess it might work... 
It sounds like mardf could give you some advice how to add perks which honestly sounds pretty cool, although i'm not sure about using/getting vanilla perk points for that. I would like a campfire like solution better i think, doesn't even need to be that fancy. What i'd imagine is something like... you get experience from fucking, that will be added anyways. Once you have enough for a perk point you could either activate a creature, or maybe shrine of hircine or so and get a pop-up where you can pick your perk line and which one you chose.

*edit: if you want to go fancy, you could even go with several deities... Hircine would open a "More damage/speed/seeking" path, that other one i can't remember right now more of a "Take care for your creatures/protection/control" path... might be exclusive or not, depends.

Having no clue about the technical stuff i imagine that wouldn't require anything you didn't do yet... however, if you just want a simple system to get it rolling, something like...
- fucking herbivore: gives you 1-2 additional HP and 10-20 additional HP to that creature. Maybe also 1-2 HP to the creature race if yours dies and you... hire a new one, maybe with some minimum experience?
- Carnivore: same for Stamina. (attack damage?)
- humanoid: same for mana.

Another way to "get perks" could be a quest line, i do like Athenas idea to breed creatures... I'd imagine something like a hideout where you meet the Avatar of the deity you serve, there some things would be explained to you. You are expected to fuck creatures till pregnancy, after giving birth (doesn't really need a whole preggo system, can be scripted to happen when fitting) at the hideout a small creature of that kind will be spawned to live there. Maybe fullfill some... motherly tasks. Getting any kind of milk, play with them (can differ like rough play, hide and seek,..). Doing that will raise that creature to adulthood and you can take it with you, with significant bonus stats. And/or you'll be granted some ability, like a shout/spell to either call creatures of that kind like in untamed, or maybe spawn a temporary ghost version, something like that. 

If you don't want people rush through the questline you could make it so that the quest for that creature would only be unlocked after one you tamed with your system dies.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Nazzzgul666

[mercplatypus]

This is probably the best setup I have seen when it comes to making an entire perk based system: WhoreCraft SSE - Other - LoversLab

There might be more out there but this mod uses the only means I have seen where the perk points that you get each level can be used to increase skills.  You have a skill tree, progression, etc.  Everything else I've seen works entirely independently of vanilla perk points and would probably be a better fit.

 

I don't really see the point of keeping your furry companions alive when they die in combat.  Quite frankly it is most likely that starting out you have a very weak creature such as a wolf that you would look to replace with something much more capable, such as a troll or sabre cat as soon as you can.  If the weak wolf that is almost useless to you just goes into bleed out and are ignored by enemies then you'll need to design another way to get rid of unwanted companions.

 

The biggest reason for restoration is normally healing during combat, not outside of.  I think most people just wait one hour if using vanilla health regen if not in combat.

 

I'm also not sold on needing to make creatures flee in order to make them tamable.  You already have illusion spells and the Voice of the Sky ability (read all tablets at High Hrothgar) that makes creatures non hostile.  The chase down mechanic sounds good at first but how often does it actually happen?  The only normally hostile animals I've seen run away are low level wolves.  Unless it is already something that is working there are probably better alternatives.

[audhol]

On 6/4/2021 at 3:27 PM, Monoman1 said:

Doing some changes to the whole animal friend thing and looking for ideas regarding balancing etc.

Goes a bit against combat but you did ask for ideas so.........

What if covering yourself in the cum of the creature caused them to be non hostile, like the scent blocks in state of decay 2? from that point you could crouch to use the fondle mechanic that's already there. It could still follow a progression in that if you dont have the experience for the animal you cant do the deed to tame it. This would give value to all the different cum containers that are for sale and also could be usefull for sneaking past a load of silly old bears or grumpy trolls.

[Guest AthenaESIV]

11 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

I've already got the progression system in place. Besides you need to gate access to powerful creatures somehow. Untamed had this problem with unfettered power - Jump into the middle of a bunch of sabrecats or trolls and press the shout button. Viola. Instant (lame) power. I think you'll be able to change the progression system via the json anyway. 

 

I definitely agree you want to gate access to powerful companions. It just feels like if I have to invest time training a rabbit to unlock wolves and dogs, it will feel too much like a pointless mmo grind, which is one of the least fun game mechanics there is in existence.

 

Making them utterly useless would be different though if the progression is per animal and they are all unlocked or tiered in groups, since most people interested in the mod will get value out of the NSFW training aspect of it. Especially if you focus on the taboo nature of it with NPC observers or the humiliation they feel, I see at least four distinct ways you can handle that:

• They are humiliated that they are drawn to do this, and they see the useful companion as a beneficial perk to their depraved behavior... Humiliation ++++
• They discover if they do this, they will earn a powerful companion, and sink low simply because they need the help or for quest purposes of some sort, all the while they are humiliated and 'can't believe they are doing this' kind of thing... Humiliation ++
• Sub route: They are coerced into it by a dom type character, who subjugates the PC and gets pleasure out of humiliating them, all while knowing there is real power resulting from the action... Humiliation +++
• Dom route: The PC wants to dominate the creatures themselves and have complete control over them, using whatever magic is involved to make them more powerful and useful... Humiliation +

Anyway that kind of alleviates the grind aspect of the early stages, since the player is investing time into creature animations that trigger whatever the fuck gets people into creature animations... Which tbh I strongly suspect for many people has a lot to do with objectification and seeing their Dragonborn be masochistic, not really because the player has any desire to fuck a wolf... Though to each their own.

 

Sorry, I am blabbering about some dumb twisted shit, lol... It isn't really the subject matter that interests me tbh - it's game systems in general, whatever the topic is. Progression systems and inventory systems are two things I enjoy discussing, and it seems like the progression system you build is going to be the most interesting aspect of this mod (that is if it ends up being a separate mod, otherwise most interesting aspect of this feature in SLS).

 

An aside about grind mechanics: I don't believe all grind is bad, just to be clear... Grind can be a really interesting aspect of progression... But IMO it works best when it is for the S tier of something that is useful in it's base state. For example: In an MMO / RPG you have a legendary weapon that is really good, but a grind makes it S+ tier and one of the best items in the game (Witcher 3's Aerondight is a great example of this). So were there to be any extensive grind in your progression system, save it for the upper tiers is my suggestion. Early progression is more interesting when it involves exploration and discovery, or interactions with NPCs or the environment.

Edited June 5, 2021 by AthenaESIV

[Kamekami]

Can i ask you to create a effect that prevent/reduce arousal gain of male actors when their balls are empty?
I ask because there is a LOT of mods that use arousal level to start animations and if you use some of them together with SLS the consequence is that some male actors never let their balls fills up.
so would be nice to have a arousal debuff when their balls are empty and maybe also a arousal buff when their balls are bursting, i think it would be more immersive this way

And i was also thinking about a effect that make them to take a little of health/health-regeneration damage if they cum when their balls are already empty, i think this would have very funny consequences like the possibility of making npcs orgasm again and again until they literaly die, imagine making a character that can complete quests using death by snu-snu as a main combat technique or tricking strong enemies into raping your character until they becone weak enough to you to being able to kill them, BIG BRAIN!
I think this would be actually pretty balanced taking into account things like jiggly-effects, sex experience, sexlab skills etc,
probably only very voluptuous and skilled characters could manage to do this sort of things

[7osisg4d]

On 6/4/2021 at 6:27 AM, Monoman1 said:

But this is where I'm getting stuck and looking for ideas:

- Creatures rag doll & bleed out when injured. Creatures won't get back up during combat. I don't want creatures dying every fight. Nor do I want them to be invincible. So I'm looking for some way to balance this out.

 

Maybe they can take x number of bleed outs before dying?

Maybe they're injured after bleed out (reduced stats) and need time to recover? Could be tricky handling scaling of effect and refreshing on load/unload. 

Creatures won't get back up until revived? (Means you need to defeat whomever sent them into bleedout most likely)

x Amount of time in bleedout = death?

 

 

Happy to hear you're working on this! I guess creature survivability has two parts

 

1- General hardiness:

Does something like creature overhaul's edits help?  Untamed's creature scaling features aren't bad, though the progression curve is a bit too slow in vanilla.

 

2 - Alternate death behavior:

Maybe some type of loyalty stat, where creatures flee after a bleedout but return later if the PC survives. Death should still be a possibility, but rare. Possible that some extremely loyal creatures would fight to the death.

 

For powers, something that allows the PC to offer themselves to creatures for a tame/nonhostile period is great for avoiding combat.  Currently using functionality from enchantress for this. Agree that untamed's fulltime-follower is too powerful. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by 7osisg4d

[Anunya]

Question: is it possible to add additional expressions somewhere and access them via the SL Survival menu? And if so, can someone point me at where I put the additional expressions once I source them?

 

Or is it a thing that if you want to play around with facial expressions, it's better to get a dedicated mod for that?

[Gwentag]

Hi, I'm having an issue where the guard asks me for my follower in places where he probably shouldnt. This was the case in the training area in front of the solitude garnison (where tullius is). He then sends me back to the baracks, which is inside the garnison. So I'm kind of stuck because they sit in fron of the door when leaving the garnison. I tried adding the location to solitude via the mcm, even though it already was part of solitude ofc. but this didnt resolve anything. 

 

These guards also have a dialogue option when talking to them that just consists of three dots. clicking them makes them say "one moment there cupcake", or something like this, and then the game crashes to desktop.

 

I checked In SSEdit and it seems that nothing is being overwritten. I do run a pretty heavy setup though, could it just be a "script overload"?

Edited June 6, 2021 by Gwentag

[Herowynne]

3 hours ago, Gwentag said:

These guards also have a dialogue option when talking to them that just consists of three dots. clicking them makes them say "one moment there cupcake", or something like this, and then the game crashes to desktop.

 

Yes, you want to avoid choosing those Guard and Enforcer "..." dialogue options. Bad things can happen if you choose them.

[Gwentag]

11 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

 

Yes, you want to avoid choosing those Guard and Enforcer "..." dialogue options. Bad things can happen if you choose them.

 

Yeah i figured. For now I just disabled guards acting as enforcers in the mcm

[7osisg4d]

On 6/4/2021 at 6:27 AM, Monoman1 said:

- Start small - hares/foxes/goats. Can't tame tougher creatures until you level up your 'wildling' level

- Level up by fucking your 'Tier 1' creatures. 10 orgasms per tier to level up. 

 

Can you make taming related to skill/orgasm? PC should be able to make hostile creatures non-hostile via sex, but only with sufficient skill will the animal become tamed. Non-taming sex would still help with training.

 

Powers - summoning creatures, were-transformation charged by sex acts

[AylaElfie]

So is it even possible to collect cum during sex as a cum junkie? I always instinctively swallow even when my status is satisfied and I have an empty cumtainer on hand! (and it says their balls are bursting with cum)

[Monoman1]

15 hours ago, candibelle said:

So is it even possible to collect cum during sex as a cum junkie? I always instinctively swallow even when my status is satisfied and I have an empty cumtainer on hand! (and it says their balls are bursting with cum)

Possibly not under the right circumstances. Product of condition overload.

19 hours ago, 7osisg4d said:

Can you make taming related to skill/orgasm? PC should be able to make hostile creatures non-hostile via sex, but only with sufficient skill will the animal become tamed. Non-taming sex would still help with training.

You'll have to make the creature cum for sure. Existing 'Sex experience' feature should handle the rest. 

On 6/6/2021 at 6:18 AM, Anunya said:

Question: is it possible to add additional expressions somewhere and access them via the SL Survival menu? And if so, can someone point me at where I put the additional expressions once I source them?

 

Or is it a thing that if you want to play around with facial expressions, it's better to get a dedicated mod for that?

Ahegao faces are somewhat configurable via json.

On 6/5/2021 at 9:00 PM, Kamekami said:

Can i ask you to create a effect that prevent/reduce arousal gain of male actors when their balls are empty?

Yes. Would like this too. But it's probably something that'd be better implemented on the SLA side. 

TBH though it's just a different model of arousal calculation - Hours since last orgasm. 

 

[Monoman1]

Regarding the ideas. All ideas welcome obviously but I think some are getting way ahead of themselves. Right now all I want is some kind of method that both protects creatures from dying (making taming creatures a real chore) and stop creatures from being OP (because they never die). 

 

I think I'm going to go with a bleedout timer. Bleed out for 1 hour = death. 

 

Or probably a combo timer + bleedout counter. x Bleedouts between 6 hour rests.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Monoman1

[7osisg4d]

36 minutes ago, Monoman1 said:

I think I'm going to go with a bleedout timer. Bleed out for 1 hour = death. 

 

I vote for this. 

 

The counter is good too, but it's tricky to expose to the player in a non-immersion breaking way. How would you tell how many bleedouts your creature has left? Maybe they could be recovered through sex? 

 

Or just every bleedout requires some service, lest the animal flee.

[Monoman1]

29 minutes ago, 7osisg4d said:

but it's tricky to expose to the player in a non-immersion breaking way.

Yes, I agree. However it's purpose it to try to stop the player laming the AI. Eg: Send creatures into a fight while you hide. They get killed. Revive them. Send them in again etc. 

 

Now there is a 'minimum distance' from enemies you must be to revive them but I think it'd still be possible to lure enemies into an area where they don't sandbox to exploit a 'no bleedout counter' implementation. That said, it still doesn't stop you from simply resting the six hours between attempts and continuing to lame them. I suppose a sleeping ambush mod would help there. Perfection it isn't. 

 

I can probably display their 'health' in the pack list. 

 

Or I can simply increase the minimum revive distance. But that's also pretty unimmersive. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Monoman1

[Corsayr]

1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

Regarding the ideas. All ideas welcome obviously but I think some are getting way ahead of themselves. Right now all I want is some kind of method that both protects creatures from dying (making taming creatures a real chore) and stop creatures from being OP (because they never die). 

 

I think I'm going to go with a bleedout timer. Bleed out for 1 hour = death. 

 

Or probably a combo timer + bleedout counter. x Bleedouts between 6 hour rests.

 

My way of thinking

 

Allow the player to set the pet as passive (so it runs from fights) or aggressive (so it defends you).

 

If it fights it faces the very real chance of dying.  

[Monoman1]

48 minutes ago, Corsayr said:

Allow the player to set the pet as passive (so it runs from fights) or aggressive (so it defends you).

You can already do this. But it doesn't address the fragile nature of most creatures (basically anything less than a troll). If you've to stop and tame a creature every 5 mins nobody is going to use it. Myself included. In my mind it's ok to allow creatures to bleedout instead of outright die because you need to put actual effort into taming and maintaining. 

 

Plus I will never be able to account for the stupidity of the AI. They'll most likely get themselves killed in ridiculous ways which would be pretty annoying if it's instantly permanent. Hell I've had horses run off the edge of cliffs and kill themselves. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Monoman1

[AylaElfie]

2 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Possibly not under the right circumstances. Product of condition overload.

 

I see! I was only wondering because Im playing through your amazing wartimes tweak and the cum collection tasks become nearly impossible with being made into a cum junkie so quickly and not being able to bathe.