Fallout just isn't Skyrim

[phillout]

1 hour ago, Antioch666 said:

Constant tactical thinking, skill and 15-20 minute long videos of how to use a bow/sword in Skyrim.... Is this your first game :P? I guess you don't play much online rofl

Try passing Bleak Falls Barrow in Requiem, then talk.

 

And no, I don't play online. Online is full of underage kids and all kinds of assholes.

[Antioch666]

4 hours ago, phillout said:

Try passing Bleak Falls Barrow in Requiem, then talk.

 

And no, I don't play online. Online is full of underage kids and all kinds of assholes.

Okay. To each his own. Still not a matter of skill and you also compare it to real life; I don't get that either. You sit on your ass and aim for NPC's which AI's are not that great; even with mods that are supposed to make AI greater. Ofcourse you can always make everything impossible with tweaking HP and damage, but thats just stupid. How many hours have you put into the game?

 

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention that since you are on Loverslab; I assume that you fiddle a little with ero mods too. If you want a challenge, try getting the Wench mods from the Nexus(https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/search/). Then setting the spawn rate to about 20%(or even lower); there you have a challenge of skill - mostly how high you have your HP, because it is going to dwindle FAST. I was very unlucky once and had to start from before I even entered a tomb - they just kept spawning and spawning and spawning x)

 

 

[landess]

Before this gets looked at by a moderator because of flame bait posts, remember the original post!

 

It's a comparison of the state of mods, and mods available for each title, now go to bed

 

[phillout]

7 hours ago, Antioch666 said:

Okay. To each his own. Still not a matter of skill and you also compare it to real life; I don't get that either. You sit on your ass and aim for NPC's which AI's are not that great; even with mods that are supposed to make AI greater. Ofcourse you can always make everything impossible with tweaking HP and damage, but thats just stupid. How many hours have you put into the game?

 

 

Skyrim? 6205 hours, accounrding to Steam. Mostly thanks to Requiem. There is an easy way of making the game challenging. especially when all you have is a sword and not a mass-killing device - putting a lot of enemies in the game. Like the final room in Bleak Falls Barrow, full of draug (like 50 of them)r shouting, shooting arrows, using magic and, of course, charging at you down the hall. Try killing them with nothing but a sword,. when every one of your actions - including holding the block - takes stamina. 

 

Or speaking of shooting animals - one thing is unloading a 10mm clip into a radstag, and another - killing an elk using a bow, when every action takes stamina - drawing, holding a drawn bow, running. You can't just put 10 arrows into the animal in a matter of seconds, one miss - and it runs away. And arrows, unlike bullets in FO4, have finite speed (i.e. you need to take the target's speed and direction of movement into the account) and they actually are affected by gravity - so you need to aim higher, and where exactly - depends on your and your target's relative heights, the distance between you etc. This is a bit of a different matter than just putting a target in the reticle of your gauss rifle and making a shot. 

 

And some enemies are immune to particular attacks. Undead don't care for your frost magic and unless your arrow is made of silver - don't care about it either. Automations are immune to all arrows and fire, but shock works against them well. There are a lot of rules and moments you learn while playing.

 

Fallout 4 is simply ridiculously, boringly easy. You just point your gun at the target and press the mouse button until the target runs out of health. That's all. If you're so clueless that you can't even hit the target - there is also VATS. Just point your crosshair in the direction of a target and press VATS button. And the game will do everything, including magically teleporting you to your melee target's location - through doors, walls etc. Or aiming your nukes for you. It's so fucking easy it's not even fun - I killed a deathclaw that jumped on me out in the open on a level like 15 with nothing but Righteous Authority, not using any fucking VATS. simply by running around trees and shooting. And that's your the most dangerous enemy in the game?  You simply can't anything like this in FO4. And yeah, I played on Survival since the first hour of FO4.

[Halstrom]

Pong isn't Pac-Man either

[Antioch666]

4 hours ago, phillout said:

 

Skyrim? 6205 hours, accounrding to Steam. Mostly thanks to Requiem. There is an easy way of making the game challenging. especially when all you have is a sword and not a mass-killing device - putting a lot of enemies in the game. Like the final room in Bleak Falls Barrow, full of draug (like 50 of them)r shouting, shooting arrows, using magic and, of course, charging at you down the hall. Try killing them with nothing but a sword,. when every one of your actions - including holding the block - takes stamina. 

 

Or speaking of shooting animals - one thing is unloading a 10mm clip into a radstag, and another - killing an elk using a bow, when every action takes stamina - drawing, holding a drawn bow, running. You can't just put 10 arrows into the animal in a matter of seconds, one miss - and it runs away. And arrows, unlike bullets in FO4, have finite speed (i.e. you need to take the target's speed and direction of movement into the account) and they actually are affected by gravity - so you need to aim higher, and where exactly - depends on your and your target's relative heights, the distance between you etc. This is a bit of a different matter than just putting a target in the reticle of your gauss rifle and making a shot. 

 

And some enemies are immune to particular attacks. Undead don't care for your frost magic and unless your arrow is made of silver - don't care about it either. Automations are immune to all arrows and fire, but shock works against them well. There are a lot of rules and moments you learn while playing.

 

Fallout 4 is simply ridiculously, boringly easy. You just point your gun at the target and press the mouse button until the target runs out of health. That's all. If you're so clueless that you can't even hit the target - there is also VATS. Just point your crosshair in the direction of a target and press VATS button. And the game will do everything, including magically teleporting you to your melee target's location - through doors, walls etc. Or aiming your nukes for you. It's so fucking easy it's not even fun - I killed a deathclaw that jumped on me out in the open on a level like 15 with nothing but Righteous Authority, not using any fucking VATS. simply by running around trees and shooting. And that's your the most dangerous enemy in the game?  You simply can't anything like this in FO4. And yeah, I played on Survival since the first hour of FO4.

Ah, wow. If you put this much time into a game, I guess I will let it lie here. Got bored with both inside 1500 hrs. I would suggest that you stay away from online gaming forever then, because otherwise you would see how "incredible" 6000+ hrs in Skyrim is. I don't even have that many hours in all my online FPS's combined x)

 

VATS is kind of overkill yes and nukes tend to upset the uhm "neighbourhood", read make everything hostile - so it is in fact limited where you can use nukes (and very costly to waste materials making ammo). As I mentioned above if it is only a matter of adding HP, DMG, enemy totals and grouping, you can pretty much make any game what you are looking for. Besides, I am pretty sure that you can go melee only(with bow) if that is what you want in Fallout 4! Furthermore, you seem to be comparing Skyrim to Fallout 4 with modded Skyrim vs. unmodded Fallout 4 too. In my first experience, I used 15 minutes to put down the Deathclaw in the first encounter, blowing through my collective ammo stockpile; so I tend to run :-P Raider squads with the Raider Overhaul mod sometimes has a nuke launcher amongst them, so you cannot "just" shoot enemies until their HP runs out. A raider doesn't give a fuck and will launch the nuke no matter where his teammates are x)

 

In the end, in Skyrim, I just ran around and gathered big boobed hotties for my player homes and player home mods; to see how many could get crammed into one house without making the load fail or the game crash. That's how boring it was ;-P

 

Edit: I eh.... just saw the movie you linked.... I will see myself out now. I wouldn't even call that drunk-material. I think we have a different opinion of what is fun in general. This is like comparing Dave Chapelle to Oprah Winfrey rofl and yes Skyrim is Oprah!!!

[phillout]

52 minutes ago, Antioch666 said:

I will see myself out now. 

Considering your arrogant attitude  you display in this topic and borderline personal attacks - it's about damn time.

 

Have a good kick in your bottom while you leave.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Assuming we can get back on topic, I never expected FO4 to be like Skyrim. I did expect it to be like FO3, at least. A half-interesting main plot, the ability to make our characters our own without any predefined background, choices that altered the ending, karma, that sort of thing. I guess the first three would be like Skyrim. Instead we got what we got. If people like it, then more power to them. But for some of us it was just plain disappointing. I'm not going into the headaches regarding the unfinished CK or BethNet and the CC.

 

To me and several others, it failed to appeal as an RPG. It's not bad as a shooter, I admit. Some of us don't like shooters, though. It's so "aggressively average" it just doesn't hold any kind of long-term appeal. That's its greatest failing.

[FauxFurry]

The lack of beast races should have clued you into this immediately.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

1 hour ago, FauxFurry said:

The lack of beast races should have clued you into this immediately.

Well, we could have had mutated iguanas and house cats as playable races. But Bethesda chose the worst possible story for an open world game that limited us to humans only.  Humans are so...boring.

[Celedhring]

I have both FO4 and Oldrim/Newrim.   That said, I find Oldrim to be the most enjoyable due to the sheer number of mods available for it.  It'll be a good while before either game catches up to Oldrim, especially with Beth$oft breaking SKSE with their Creation Club crap (which led me to having Steam on permanent "offline")

 

I have high hopes for Newrim since a good number of Oldrim stuff have been ported..just waiting for the SKSE framework and sex framework to match that of Oldrim and I'll switch over to Newrim completely especially since it's more stable and colorful. (I don't use ENB)

 

I just wish there was *less* draugr in Skyrim though.  Is there a mod that'd change draugr in those tombs to other creatures cause if all that draugr in Skyrim ever banded together, it'd just be like that White Walker army in GOT...

 

[ToJKa]

It does seem like Bethesda treats Fallout as  a sort of bastard child. Understandable, i suppose, since TES is their own old creation.

As for the community, seems that Fallout 4 just isn't as attractive to modders, and the old masters that made Oblivion and Fallout 3 mods what they were are long gone, so we're left with tacticool guns and HAWT HAWT GRRL! companion mods.

So everything is turning into shit. But that's what life is, a thing that turns other things into shit (figuratively and literally).

 

Regardless, shooting deathclaws with an Anti-material Rifle just is infinitely more fun than shooting dragons with longbows, so beggars can't be choosers

 

...Actually, i should replay Wasteland 2 sometime soon. Scorpitrons at least were a challenge.

 

On 10.5.2018 at 2:14 AM, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Well, we could have had mutated iguanas and house cats as playable races. But Bethesda chose the worst possible story for an open world game that limited us to humans only.  Humans are so...boring.

I remember hearing that a village of raccoon-human mutants was planned for Fallout 2, but was cut long before the game was finished.

 

[Blaze69]

On 10/5/2018 at 1:14 AM, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Well, we could have had mutated iguanas and house cats as playable races. But Bethesda chose the worst possible story for an open world game that limited us to humans only.  Humans are so...boring.

This soo much. At this point, the only thing that keeps me playing Skyrim (and would keep me playing Oblivion if I could make it work ) is beast races.

 

There's humans in every single other game available ever, so the fact that I can play as a Khajiit or Argonian or any other mod-added beast race is what makes Elder Scrolls games interesting for me. Of course the (Morrowind/Kirkbride) lore could make it interesting as well without the need for them, but since Beth has catered to the "lame generic LOTR-ish fantasy" crowd as well as dumbing down stuff pretty hard, furries are all that remain for me now.

 

Compare that to Fallout New Vegas, where while the gameplay is kinda crappy (gotta have some of the worst shooter mechanics I've seen), the story is good enough to make it all worth it. If only FO4 was anything close to it story-wise, I could still play through it, but noooo, they had to go for this crap. It was so bad I stopped playing after only 2-3 hours and never came back, not even to play the DLCs when they came out (got it for console with the Season Pack as a combo deal) even though I paid for them.

 

At least if there were any (mod-added) anthro races, it could be worth playing again on PC, but so far the only one I know of is the Vulpine Race and it's still being worked on with no ETA on the release. Oh, well.

 

/rant

1 hour ago, ToJKa said:

I remember hearing that a village of raccoon-human mutants was planned for Fallout 2, but was cut long before the game was finished.

The S'Lanter. Sounded like a really good idea and would have loved to see the end result if they had actually implemented it .

[Ernest Lemmingway]

There was a talking giant mole rat in FO2 called "the Brain." He will send you on a quest to find him some Cheesy Poofs if you didn't pick them up beforehand. A two-for-one Easter Egg. And, of course, the intelligent deathclaws in Vault 13 after all the humans were enslaved by the Enclave. So Interplay was toying with ideas about more than just humans, ghouls, super mutants, and the cut S'Lanter as sapient species. Which, naturally, Bugthesda rejected in favor of things that clash with the original 1950's sci-fi schlock that inspired the series to begin with in favor of their own, lackluster ideas.

 

Shenanigans! I call shenanigans! Bugthesda may own the IP rights, but they are not the original creators of the Fallout series. It never was and never will be their game no matter what. And the more they mangle it to fit their own demented image, the worse it looks and feels.

[guk]

The topic was about sex mods, but whatever.

 

 

You know what? Boy am i glad that Fallout is not like Skyrim!

 

 

No grinding of crafting skills and spell schools for hours each day, because Fallout is an actual CRPG where your actions give XP which you spend on your skills and stats as you see fit. You know like every single western RPG has worked since the pen&paper times?

 

Most unique selling point is the Settlement building, granted that this sucks without mods but the flow between exploring <-> questing <-> settlement building just works to make the game infinitely replayable. It adds something relaxing and creative to the formula, which simply doesn't exist in other RPGs.

 

They also revamped the way how perks work, very similar to how gameplay overhauls in Skyrim have done it. Instead of having 10 different perks with 5/5 points to spend on each, you get one perk with 5/5 points and each point adds several things. Most important is that weapon perks don't give something like 25% like in Skyrim, but 100% which stacks multiplicatively with other perks. Bottom line if you don't take synergetic perks for a weapon type, you won't just kill slower but you probably won't kill anything before it kills you.

 

On top of that, there also are alternatives to pure "killing builds" optimized for min-max combat efficiency. Charisma definitely works with Inspirational and/or Intimidation, also Intelligence and Luck have extremely strong options. While Skyrim, well that game doesn't even have stats...

 

Also the Survival Mode has nothing to do with the "ultimate bullet sponge" difficulty setting from release, quite the opposite. Combat is extremely fast, stand out of cover and you're dead in 1-2 hits mostly. Likewise, most enemies drop just as fast. Yeah... most ;-)

A lot of things that have to be done by mods in Skyrim are core features here, like Stimpacks only slowly healing over time. Food and water only heal like 0.5hp/sec and get interrupted from taking damage.

 

The needs and diseases system is not too deep like in an actual Survival Sim, but works fine as it is.

Take some Radaway, get your immune system severely weakened. Get bitten by a mutant or animal, high change of wound infection which spreads and will kill you if not treated. Take antibiotics, get severely fatigued so you may have to go to sleep. Go too long without sleeping, you'll wake up with lethargy and insomnia. Same thing when popping chems too often, or walking around encumbered. Swimming in polluted water or eating dirty food gives parasites, and so on.

 

And if you did everything right? Wore your hazmat suit, let your companion wrestle with the molerats, ate your organic vegetables and went to bed early in your pyjamas? You still wake up with parasites and lethargy! But no problem, because you slept in your settlement with its own medic station, which also brings us back to the unique selling point.

 

 

There are so many more things that are decisively better in Fallout, example the exploration. A wise man once said, that open world / sandbox games can only be good when exploration pays off. And that's what Fallout does perfect, because of the requirements for crafting and settlement building, you will always rummage through every footlocker in search of rare materials. Useless items *almost* don't exist, only exceptions are items that are very heavy with a bad salvage yield.

 

Sure there always is a point in your playthrough where you get bored because you are too high level, enemies are no longer threatening and you no longer need stuff. Then it's time to wrap it up and start a new game.

The difference is, that in Skyrim you will reach that point after 20-60 hours (yes even with Requiem you faceroll everything after 60 hours), while a Fallout playthrough can easily last 100-300 hours. Simply because there is more to explore with more useful rewards, and the settlement building takes up a large part of the playtime on its own.

 

 

Probably could go on for a few pages about everything else from the factions to the dialogues, but that will do for now.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

6 hours ago, guk said:

The topic was about sex mods, but whatever.

Well that discrepancy is due to a couple of things. First and foremost is the CK. The public FO4 CK is technically still unfinished, riddled with so many bugs and incomplete features that mod making is even more hit-or-miss than Skyrim. It's still in beta, in other words. If there ever is a finalized version released, it may well render mods made on the current version unusable and force modders to start all over from scratch. Unfortunately it's looking less and less likely that there will ever be a finalized version.

 

Second is that the CC keeps breaking F4SE and other modding tools. The motivation to even try and keep them up to date is hard to maintain when it's a sure bet they'll be broken again in a couple of months.

 

I'm sure there are other factors but those two are the most common complaints I hear from modders on various sites.

[guk]

1 hour ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Well that discrepancy is due to a couple of things. First and foremost is the CK. The public FO4 CK is technically still unfinished, riddled with so many bugs and incomplete features that mod making is even more hit-or-miss than Skyrim. It's still in beta, in other words. If there ever is a finalized version released, it may well render mods made on the current version unusable and force modders to start all over from scratch. Unfortunately it's looking less and less likely that there will ever be a finalized version.

 

Second is that the CC keeps breaking F4SE and other modding tools. The motivation to even try and keep them up to date is hard to maintain when it's a sure bet they'll be broken again in a couple of months.

 

I'm sure there are other factors but those two are the most common complaints I hear from modders on various sites.

Yep and that's not the only thing; since they no longer offer the CK on Steam, and i boycot the Bethesda.net site, i can't get the CK at all. Probably i'm not the only one.

[Benmc20]

19 hours ago, guk said:

Yep and that's not the only thing; since they no longer offer the CK on Steam, and i boycot the Bethesda.net site, i can't get the CK at all. Probably i'm not the only one.

I can confirm.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Seems like the only thing Bugthesda didn't do wrong regarding mods was force PC modders to release their work exclusively through them. They still might.

[AWP3RATOR]

On some level, the current arguments are akin to stating that Dragon Age Inquisition is not Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic.  Same publisher, different genres, different engines, years apart.  I agree and disagree with many sentiments in this thread - but to me this is apples and oranges.

 

What appeals to me personally about the two franchises are different but do share some similarities:

 

Differences:  Setting, time period, lore (one is fantasy where the other is mostly modern apocalyptic sci-fi reality)

Similarities: RGP core mechanics, non-linear and moral ambiguity, freedom for the player to determine who and how they want to be/play (player classes/builds, solving quests, etc.)

 

The similarities are what appeal to me most. Say what you will about either franchise but the games are playable and replayable.  If they were not, none of us would be here debating this on a niche modding community site   A little realization of the absurdity of the situation of actually debating the merits of two games released in 2011 and 2015, respectively, in 2018 is due here   We're here, all these years later, in a modding community which many would argue is alive and well for both games having this debate.  That's proof enough for me that Bethesda, in all of its faults - is still doing something right.

 

Take for instance the travesty that was Mass Effect: Andromeda.  There wasn't even a modding community to speak of, and Bioware/EA took that franchise on a left turn from the original trilogy, but that's a debate for a different topic.

 

In summation, while FO4 may not have been Skryrim, and may not have been the successor to the beloved FONV, it is what we have.  And I'd take FO4 over a hastily remade "special edition of FO3" any day.

 

Just my $.02

[AWP3RATOR]

Also, don't mind @phillout while his opinions may seem jarring and strong - they are valid.  We've debated the finer points on what constitutes immersion before and while I generally will partake in those conversions - it really boils down to one thing: fun.  AAA software needs to apply to the masses, else it would not be AAA and would not sell.  Could Fallout 4 benefit from accurate projectile physics? Sure it could.  I do find it laughable that any game released in recent years doesn't current consider coriolis effect, gravity, wind speed, the shooters demeanor, etc - but this is not a simulation of reality.  This is a silly/zany game set in a post apocalyptic future.

 

The same applies to X thing that might be brought up - but I still personally think the game is fun.  And the "shortcomings" will be solved by the mod community

[Celedhring]

I recently added a couple of mods recently (Immersive Creatures and SIC High Level mobs) and stripped out all the +combat skills from my PC's gear, and moved the difficulty to Master.  It made my run through Rannveig's Fast a memorable one.   (I also got rid of the Muffle enchantment on boots too)  It made me take a much more careful and tactical approach. 

[Halstrom]

On ‎14‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 8:16 AM, guk said:

Yep and that's not the only thing; since they no longer offer the CK on Steam, and i boycot the Bethesda.net site, i can't get the CK at all. Probably i'm not the only one.

Well you can, but you just chose not to.
Its not that big a deal, login once install it then just launch locally after that.

[Guest]

On 3/19/2018 at 1:26 PM, Plaguetard said:

Anyone else having this issue?

I have zero problems finding mods for fallout 4 to do what I want or to change what I want changed. So either 1) you're not looking hard enough 2) you're not looking at all or 3) you're blind.

 

Fallout 4's map is a lot smaller than Skyrim's because the developers cranked up playtime by adding the settlement building feature which is a lot of fun when you have a mod like Place Anywhere.

 

I spend more time working on my mods for F4 than I do actually playing the game. There are almost as many mods for F4 as there are for Skyrim and Skyrim was born 4.5 years earlier than F4 was.

 

Another thing the developers did to increase F4's playtime with a small map is add other areas like Nuka World and Far Harbor which rely heavily on large interiors to fill the spaces the overworld maps left open. 

 

Skyrim Special Edition was actually delayed a few times because Bethesda had to tweak the engine to accommodate Skyrim's map size, if anyone actually reads the release notes. The F4 engine couldn't handle Skyrim's sheer mass.

 

If Bethesda licensed Bohemia Interactive's Real Virtuality engine, they could make such better games. Their engine has vehicles, guns, planes, and Arma 3 has one of the largest first-person RPG/FPS in the world at over 200 square kilometers.

 

If you dislike Fallout 4 because it's not the same as Skyrim, it's because they are fairly different. Gunplay is much more different than swordplay and because of guns melee characters are a lot harder to play. Another limit of Fallout 4's engine was the usable gun distance, bullets typically don't go further than 500 feet without some serious game breaking ini tweaks and game setting mods.

 

Well, that's my two cents.

[Guest]

On 5/13/2018 at 6:16 PM, guk said:

Yep and that's not the only thing; since they no longer offer the CK on Steam, and i boycot the Bethesda.net site, i can't get the CK at all. Probably i'm not the only one.

https://www.creationkit.com/fallout4/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

Download it from there.