Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[xboronx]

Small problem with the new update. The gambling game dialogue seems to have disappeared, rest is working fine.

[Lupine00]

I posted about this before, but in a different way...

 

I really like the immersive idea of the follower taking charge as willpower fades. I'd like to see more ways this happens.

The stuff about "speak through followers" was one.

 

I think, if you're enslaved, whenever you enter a town, the follower could take and vend all your looted items at a low return on listed value.

The follower wouldn't have to do actual vending, it would just need to iterate over the items and remove debt according to value.

 

But, you could immersify it, so the follower auto-walks to certain vendors and runs a pre-canned scene, full of put-downs and humiliation for the PC, possibly using them for sex in the bargaining process. This is exactly the sort of things that Skyrim scenes are good for.

 

If the player doesn't join the follower in the shop, the follower just stands in there, adding debt at the normal rate, until the player finally shows up. So you don't need a leash or any of those bug-prone mechanics. If you were being nice, you could put a quest marker on the follower so they player can't lose them. After all, the PC might be blindfolded and in a hobble dress  It can be hard to keep up like that.

 

OK, that raises some issues about night time and day time, and when shops are open, but never mind ... don't have to force it, follower just has a dialog, same as "I need to get some rest" ... becomes "I need to sell these items, seeing as you can't." OK, I know it's not that simple, but it's an idea.

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Corsayr said:

Sorry, Lydia, I know I owe you a ton of cash, and stuff... but Lozeak added another update and I need to do a clean save.

 

Oh well, you can charge me extra next time around.

 

Also

 

First!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

that was 3 hours ago, and now we are at 1.35a

i just finished the MCM madness (i have to find a way to be faster)

i didnt even saw Lydia

now i am scared to log into LL

[Reesewow]

19 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

that was 3 hours ago, and now we are at 1.35a

i just finished the MCM madness (i have to find a way to be faster)

i didnt even saw Lydia

now i am scared to log into LL

Uh, what MCM madness?  There's a Save/Load feature that lasts between clean saves. 

 

Also, 1.35b says hi.

[donttouchmethere]

Just now, Reesewow said:

Uh, what MCM madness?  There's a Save/Load feature that lasts between clean saves. 

hahaha yes for 8 of the 70+ MCMs  -.-

arghs i thought i have seen an "a" behind 1.35

well, guess i was wrong lol

[Reesewow]

1 minute ago, donttouchmethere said:

hahaha yes for 8 of the 70+ MCMs  -.-

arghs i thought i have seen an "a" behind 1.35

well, guess i was wrong lol

Oh, you meant a new save, not a clean save.  Yea that's a bit more intense.  1.35b was uploaded 11 minutes ago, get with the times!

[Lozeak]

39 minutes ago, xboronx said:

Small problem with the new update. The gambling game dialogue seems to have disappeared, rest is working fine.

Fixed, mod updated.

31 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I posted about this before, but in a different way...

 

I really like the immersive idea of the follower taking charge as willpower fades. I'd like to see more ways this happens.

The stuff about "speak through followers" was one.

 

I think, if you're enslaved, whenever you enter a town, the follower could take and vend all your looted items at a low return on listed value.

The follower wouldn't have to do actual vending, it would just need to iterate over the items and remove debt according to value.

 

But, you could immersify it, so the follower auto-walks to certain vendors and runs a pre-canned scene, full of put-downs and humiliation for the PC, possibly using them for sex in the bargaining process. This is exactly the sort of things that Skyrim scenes are good for.

 

If the player doesn't join the follower in the shop, the follower just stands in there, adding debt at the normal rate, until the player finally shows up. So you don't need a leash or any of those bug-prone mechanics. If you were being nice, you could put a quest marker on the follower so they player can't lose them. After all, the PC might be blindfolded and in a hobble dress  It can be hard to keep up like that.

 

OK, that raises some issues about night time and day time, and when shops are open, but never mind ... don't have to force it, follower just has a dialog, same as "I need to get some rest" ... becomes "I need to sell these items, seeing as you can't." OK, I know it's not that simple, but it's an idea.

Good ideas !

 

So at some point I do need to rework the enslaved mode, no idea what I'll change / rework. I made this really quick and never looked back at it, I think it needs some work.

 

Making the follower do other things, I'm worried about because there is the follower AI packages running (I think) so it might be hard to deal with. Eventually, I'm sure I'll try and do something like that (need more experenice in the CK) (I cannot remove/add follower for it cause it will be asking for bugs)

 

 

[Reesewow]

Tested out the new new piercing deal, some thoughts in spoiler:

 

Spoiler

I really like how the level 1 and 2 levels of this deal give the follower more control over the player, it really fits well with the "control slipping away" theme of the mod.  It's very much a "you didn't read the fine print" type deal with how it sneaks into other parts of the mod, which was a really fun surprise.  The level 3 version is also cool because it "soft" enforces nudity when in town - the "punishment" in the latest version is way better than what it was before.  Basically, pretty genius tweak to the original idea of the deal.

 

If I had a suggestion, it would be to add a "pay off all debt" option that doesn't trigger the end of Devious Follower status, and would be available during deals.  This is just because I found it got a bit repetitive to be "rewarded" 4 times in a row because I owed 4k debt and wanted to pay it down to 0.  I think this option would be really useful without deals as well - I find I do not use the current "pay off debt" option often because my 2nd follower will "steal" DF status if I do, and I prefer a specific follower keep the DF status (basically I need to pay off the 2nd follower and use the debug option to put my main follower back in charge).

 

My thinking is the "I'd like to pay you" list could look something like this:

 

Pay current debt (Follower dismissable)    <--- not available during deals, same as current "pay all debt"

Pay current debt                                    (appears if the player has enough cash to pay off full debt, but will not clear DF status/give access to inventory)

1,000 g

500 g

ect

 

[CGi]

7 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Tested out the new new piercing deal, some thoughts in spoiler:

<snip>

As far as i've seen, DF uses the dept system to ensure you can't dismiss the follower with active deals by always having a sum you can't pay off (100 Septims in my case wit 1 active deal).

This neat little trick of gearing the 2 system together to prevent an unlogical outcome would become obsolete with your suggestion tho.

[Reesewow]

15 minutes ago, CGi said:

As far as i've seen, DF uses the dept system to ensure you can't dismiss the follower with active deals by always having a sum you can't pay off (100 Septims in my case wit 1 active deal).

This neat little trick of gearing the 2 system together to prevent an unlogical outcome would become obsolete with your suggestion tho.

I think my suggestion on how to implement a "full payment while under a deal" option would basically work the same way, but have the option actually pay off [current debt -1].  So you can't actually pay off the follower completely using that option, avoiding being able to dismiss a follower while under deals.

 

Mostly it would just be a way to further reduce the amount of clicks it takes to pay down a follower with large debt numbers, which has a bit more impact under certain deals now.

[CGi]

4 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

I think my suggestion on how to implement a "full payment while under a deal" option would basically work the same way, but have the option actually pay off [current debt -1].  So you can't actually pay off the follower completely using that option, avoiding being able to dismiss a follower while under deals.

 

Mostly it would just be a way to further reduce the amount of clicks it takes to pay down a follower with large debt numbers, which has a bit more impact under certain deals now.

i guess i got it now. You want the dialogue option to clear the whole debt even if you have a running deal.
if that's the case, then i second that because clearing my 8500+ dept needed 9 repeats (8x1000 and 1x500). Not overly inconvinient but it would still be nice to have.

[Lupine00]

17 minutes ago, CGi said:

i guess i got it now. You want the dialogue option to clear the whole debt even if you have a running deal.
if that's the case, then i second that because clearing my 8500+ dept needed 9 repeats (8x1000 and 1x500). Not overly inconvinient but it would still be nice to have.

This is also why I think a mechanic that blocks you dismissing the follower (independent of having paid the debt) if your willpower is low.

Then, you can offer the pay off debt option, but if you have deals, obviously you can't dismiss.

And if you don't have deals, if your willpower is low, when you say "It's time for us to part ways", the follower says, "Nope," in a willpower appropriate way.

 

Also, if you have any devices on (except maybe piercings), whether from a deal or not, you shouldn't be able to dismiss then either.

(There is dialog for this already, but I never had it come up in 1.15).

[valcon767]

6 hours ago, Lozeak said:

In last update. The piercing deal has work around for Chasity bra/belt (basically stage 1/2 the bra/belt conceal if your pierced so the follower won't punish you for it)

Then on stage 3 they will help you equip a piercings if you can't.

I also had to added like 20 messages to the game to deal with bra/belts when the follower checks if there equipped.

 

that should fix just about every compatibility issue i had found (for all mods not just DCL) other than custom followers ... which is fixed with the"pause mod" button.

 

finally got out of that "Bound Queen" quest.  now i can update this and 2 other mods  (i just did not want to chance breaking it after doing over 75% of it).

 

 

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, CGi said:

i guess i got it now. You want the dialogue option to clear the whole debt even if you have a running deal.
if that's the case, then i second that because clearing my 8500+ dept needed 9 repeats (8x1000 and 1x500). Not overly inconvinient but it would still be nice to have.

Yea, exactly this.  My enslavement debt is only set at 5k and I find repaying 4x in a row can get a bit tiresome.  9x in a row sounds a bit painful.

 

Spoiler

With the new piercing deal I think I might go a bit crazy trying to make 8 payments in a row with the "rewards" your follower gives triggering each time and causing the player to pause for a few seconds each time.  Which would be a shame because I really like the mechanic itself, but I'd only want it to trigger once per payment "session", and I think the best way to do that would be to have a "clear all debt but 1 g" option.

 

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, Lozeak said:

Making the follower do other things, I'm worried about because there is the follower AI packages running (I think) so it might be hard to deal with. Eventually, I'm sure I'll try and do something like that (need more experenice in the CK) (I cannot remove/add follower for it cause it will be asking for bugs)

Yes, you have to implement this via an alias, or you will surely conflict badly, but I should think you do something like this already.

 

Basically, I think the way is to add the packages to to the stack, with conditions on them. That's how AI is design to be extensible in Skyrim.

The conditions are how you toggle those behaviours on and off. Put on all the behaviours you need in the alias, pre-configured with all their variables and markers, and then enable them exclusively, in order to do the things you want.

 

The other trick is that you drive everything else off those packages, so the dialogue conditions toggle off the package state. Thus they can't get out of synch.

 

I've definitely seen Skyrim take its own sweet time to swap packages, and that's expected, so you must drive from package state, not assume the package state is what you expect, because there are so many reasons it might not be.

 

While you can put dialog in the quest with the alias, and restrict the dialog to actors in the alias (you probably already do this), that's not enough to give the fine control. Just being in the alias does not mean those packages are running.

 

When you remove the actor from the alias, all the packages come off them, so they can't cause any further problems.

 

I've had this work for me, quite reliably.

[Guest]

Does willpower/resist get reset when the debt goes to 0? It would be nice if it could persist to the next follower

[user9120975435]

Not sure if I understood changelog correctly, but if I did, I ask you to please not put chastity stuff into the piercing deal. Personally for me chastity stuff not only sours experience, but I also have mods that draw effect from high arousal (chastity stuff locks my char's arousal to 100) which make combat almost impossible. Chastity stuff should go in the bondage deal. If I misunderstood about chastity in piercing deal, then please ignore this post.

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, user9120975435 said:

If I misunderstood about chastity in piercing deal, then please ignore this post.

Chastity stuff is not forced in the piercing deal - the piercing deal will now accept the player wearing a chastity bra/belt as "good enough" since they can block the equipping of these items.  This is to avoid a debt death spiral where the player is wearing a quest set like some of the items from DCUL, gets forced to take a piercing deal, can't physically equip the piercings, and gets destroyed by punishment debt for not wearing the piercings.

[valcon767]

2 hours ago, user9120975435 said:

Not sure if I understood changelog correctly, but if I did, I ask you to please not put chastity stuff into the piercing deal. Personally for me chastity stuff not only sours experience, but I also have mods that draw effect from high arousal (chastity stuff locks my char's arousal to 100) which make combat almost impossible. Chastity stuff should go in the bondage deal. If I misunderstood about chastity in piercing deal, then please ignore this post.

if i understand it correctly it does not enforce chastity, but if you are stuck in chastity items you will not be punished for not wearing the piercings.

if you have the piercings deal taken

   no piercings and no chastity = get debt/punishment

   no piercings and are wearing chastity (where the piercings are supposed to be) = no punishment 

 

[CynicalCore]

is there a patch for AFT-Amazing Follower Tweaks or only EFF? Would it work with  AFT with out a patch? i dont think..

[xboronx]

14 hours ago, Lozeak said:

Fixed, mod updated.

 

 

Oh my you are so quick :).

[CGi]

No new update yet? it's already over 14h since the last one.
How revolting!

[Lozeak]

3 hours ago, valcon767 said:

if i understand it correctly it does not enforce chastity, but if you are stuck in chastity items you will not be punished for not wearing the piercings.

if you have the piercings deal taken

   no piercings and no chastity = get debt/punishment

   no piercings and are wearing chastity (where the piercings are supposed to be) = no punishment 

 

Yes did this in 1.35 based off your feedback

[Quillboar]

2 hours ago, C0R3G4M3R said:

is there a patch for AFT-Amazing Follower Tweaks or only EFF? Would it work with  AFT with out a patch? i dont think..

I've been using Immersive AFT and they've worked flawlessly together for me--I assume it'll work fine with regular AFT too. All you really need to do is disable the custom dialogue blocker in the Debug tab to access AFT's dialogue options.

[CynicalCore]

9 minutes ago, Quillboar said:

I've been using Immersive AFT and they've worked flawlessly together for me--I assume it'll work fine with regular AFT too. All you really need to do is disable the custom dialogue blocker in the Debug tab to access AFT's dialogue options.

Thanks man, i try it out