Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[jaberwocky]

27 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

 ... ... ...

Thanks for the feedback (and your mod)

 

As both you and Reesewow explain, it is good to know that any collar or restrictive boot will do. A nice work-around to all the existing mods!

 

I already suspected that having two types of debts would be to difficult (as in, too much rewrite). An alternative could perhaps be a high multiplier to pay off any kind of debt in gold (even when paying straight away). That way the player will be forced to pay by making deals. An alternative might be that the follower will always 'steal' the money (although when the willpower is high, a simple message might occur where a payment on equal terms is described). But if for instance the player just bought a home or was robbed, the player can't pay and turn up in debt. I have to check if instead of paying three times a day, a follower could also request payment every three days. Anyway, these are a few loose thoughts.

 

As to modifying the carry weight, I would suggest creating multiple contracts of different weights and replace the existing with a heavier version. Then you do not have to modify stats. BI am aware that if you wish to tweak things a bit, you require a lot of contract-objects of different weights (not sure, but I assume that an objects weight is a static property).

 

While playing your mod a bit more, I already found out that saying no,... is not always a good option. Thus not knowing about the deal up front is indeed not necessary.

 

I still have to play a bit more before I think I will know how willpower is affected and what affect willpower has. But the idea is nice. And as you have an 'increase debt' option in the debug-menu, perhaps a 'lower-willpower' could be useful as well for those who want to take a quick glimpse to what the want to avoid.

 

Anyway, good to know that in the near/far future deals can be turned on/off. And I am curious what deals the future might have in store, or how you intend to stimulate making deals. Please keep up the good work!

[Reesewow]

5 minutes ago, jaberwocky said:

I still have to play a bit more before I think I will know how willpower is affected and what affect willpower has. But the idea is nice. And as you have an 'increase debt' option in the debug-menu, perhaps a 'lower-willpower' could be useful as well for those who want to take a quick glimpse to what the want to avoid.

I you just want to test things at various willpower levels, you can manually set your willpower in console (set _Dwill to X) - the figure itself is just a variable between 0 and 10 I believe, but it ties into a *lot* of things in the mod and will change how the mod plays and what options you have.

 

Obviously use at own risk.

[Svel]

My follower never says the dialogue to start the mod with the new update ;-; 

[Lozeak]

1 hour ago, Svel said:

My follower never says the dialogue to start the mod with the new update ;-; 

New Save - Save and reload (Might fix it)

Old Save - Reset in MCM

if those don't work I need more information (which follower you using are you using another follower mod)

[Svel]

I downloaded the stable version, got a follower to say the line and start it up, then saved again and overwrote that version with the new one and it seems to be working with the new features and all that up. I was trying it with Uthgerd and that one dark elf in the hunstman, no follower mods. 

[Wyrade]

1 hour ago, CGi said:

This version deleted a global variable from SL Aroused.

o.O Why?

And here I thought I don't "have" to check all installs with tes5edit.

[CGi]

7 minutes ago, Wyrade said:

o.O Why?

And here I thought I don't "have" to check all installs with tes5edit.

And you don't have to. i did it for you.

 

i removed an obsolete NPC (Dog) and dialogue entry too, additionally to xEdits automatic cleaning.

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, CGi said:

And you don't have to. i did it for you.

 

i removed an obsolete NPC (Dog) and dialogue entry too, additionally to xEdits automatic cleaning.

Appreciate the update from Lozeak, and also the quick-as-always Usleep/EFF patched version.  I certainly don't expect in-progress updates of DF to always be perfect, so it's great that there is so much support.

 

So far things seem to be working great using this file, thanks to both.

[Lozeak]

4 hours ago, CGi said:

Devious Followers V1.35.3 beta - Cleaned, Localized & USLEEP patched.

Partial German translation included. Scripts are still not localized.

This version deleted a global variable from SL Aroused. Don't know why it does that but i removed this edit for compatibilities sake.

 

This is an FOMOD version with the following options:
- localized and unlocalized plugin

- EFF patch

- optional source scripts

- optional MO support

 

Devious Followers V1.35.3 beta (2.2MB)

Weird, I didn't do that of course. I looked into it and if doesn't look like it doesn't do anything in SLA either so maybe it's a CK glitch or something.

3 hours ago, Wyrade said:

o.O Why?

And here I thought I don't "have" to check all installs with tes5edit.

Well, I'm not experienced in TES5 (I know some cause you have to, to make mods) so I would of never noticed it if CGi didn't.

 

That said, since CGi posted my update... I had to update.

 

So yea this took a bit of work but now Devious Followers can be a SS results (because I'm gonna support the mod until further notice) and it's a way to instantly get maxed out deals ^^.

 

What this means if you don't have a follower and get sent to SS you'll end up with a very fun one :).

Endless mode needs to be off and the save/load hasn't been updated yet.

(you can set up your game for DF to send you to a new follower but yea it won't make much sense)

 

Likly more tweaks and stuff to come in the next few days.

[CGi]

52 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

Weird, I didn't do that of course. I looked into it and if doesn't look like it doesn't do anything in SLA either so maybe it's a CK glitch or something.

Well, I'm not experienced in TES5 (I know some cause you have to, to make mods) so I would of never noticed it if CGi didn't.

 

That said, since CGi posted my update... I had to update.

 

So yea this took a bit of work but now Devious Followers can be a SS results (because I'm gonna support the mod until further notice) and it's a way to instantly get maxed out deals ^^.

 

What this means if you don't have a follower and get sent to SS you'll end up with a very fun one :).

Endless mode needs to be off and the save/load hasn't been updated yet.

(you can set up your game for DF to send you to a new follower but yea it won't make much sense)

 

Likly more tweaks and stuff to come in the next few days.

Doesn't matter how it got deleted because you fixed it in V1.4.
And keep doing what's most fun for you: Creating loose/loose situations for our toons.

Meanwhile we'll help you to the best of our extend so your mod works for as many players as possible.

 

i saw you posted that update before you made this post. GOT YA!

 

Aside from that: impressive update, as usual. Time to loose some more. ^^

[Lozeak]

8 minutes ago, CGi said:

Doesn't matter how it got deleted because you fixed it in V1.4.
And keep doing what's most fun for you: Creating loose/loose situation for our toons.

Meanwhile we'll help you to the best of your extend so your mod works for as many players as possible.

 

i saw you post that update before you made this post. GOT YA!

 

Aside from that: impressive update, as usual. Time to loose some more. ^^

I do appreciate the support ^^. I have copied over the unlocalized version :D.

 

[Zydar]

How do this mod handle multiple followers? If I might suggest to have the mod track the followers under you so you can enable/disable whom amongst them are devious. What I had in mind is if I have Sofia and Lydia, its more believable Sofia would be devious but not Lydia.

 

It will be interesting if multiple followers tag team against you (like they communicate with each other and draft a devious deal against you or something).

 

Also how well will it go with other devious quest mods such as Captured Dream, Devious Cidhna and Devious Cursed Loot scenarios?

[CGi]

18 minutes ago, Zydar said:

How do this mod handle multiple followers? If I might suggest to have the mod track the followers under you so you can enable/disable whom amongst them are devious. What I had in mind is if I have Sofia and Lydia, its more believable Sofia would be devious but not Lydia.

 

It will be interesting if multiple followers tag team against you (like they communicate with each other and draft a devious deal against you or something).

Vanilla method. So only the first hired follower is recognized.
The EFF patch allows DF to see all EFF registered followers but there's no handling for this ... yet.

[Lozeak]

1 minute ago, Zydar said:

How do this mod handle multiple followers? If I might suggest to have the mod track the followers under you so you can enable/disable whom amongst them are devious. What I had in mind is if I have Sofia and Lydia, its more believable Sofia would be devious but not Lydia.

 

It will be interesting if multiple followers tag team against you (like they communicate with each other and draft a devious deal against you or something).

 

Also how well will it go with other devious quest mods such as Captured Dream, Devious Cidhna and Devious Cursed Loot scenarios?

Mod will basically, decide 1 of the followers to be the controller. I will be adding a way for a player to disable certain followers being devious!

 

Multiple follower content - nope basically(you can get increased debt) it's a nightmare to consider because you need a mod really to have multiple followers or I'd have to make it so my mod allows it, creating more incompatibility with other mod..........

That said, I may have an epic solution to make my mode more compatible with other follower mod ( I need time to test and work it out).

 

My mod respects tags on devices so it should be compatible with most other DD mods...

Followers from those mod may have issues though like in DCL but there is a pause function. (out of those mods, I do use DCL and I'm strongly recommend it, with this mod)

 

[Clea Strange]

never knew that you could have multiple followers in vanilla skyrim, always thought that you had to have follower mods like UFO, AFT or EFF to have more than one

 

 

Pleas keep up the good work I really enjoy this mod 

[Zydar]

I thought so

30 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

Mod will basically, decide 1 of the followers to be the controller. I will be adding a way for a player to disable certain followers being devious!

 

Multiple follower content - nope basically(you can get increased debt) it's a nightmare to consider because you need a mod really to have multiple followers or I'd have to make it so my mod allows it, creating more incompatibility with other mod..........

That said, I may have an epic solution to make my mode more compatible with other follower mod ( I need time to test and work it out).

 

My mod respects tags on devices so it should be compatible with most other DD mods...

Followers from those mod may have issues though like in DCL but there is a pause function. (out of those mods, I do use DCL and I'm strongly recommend it, with this mod)

 

Yeah that is what I thought. 

 

Oh I meant how would other mods affect this mod if they were to say, dismiss the follower. Will that count against you in debt? Also if your follower also get caught in a bind, will the mod pause it automatically or will that lead to increased debt?

 

I think if its not Sofia, that elf from the Whiterun archery shop would do fine as the devious follower. Will try it out later once I iron out my load order.

[valcon767]

18 hours ago, jaberwocky said:

• When my follower informed me that my arms would be bound behind my back, it didn't happen. As to a side-note, perhaps not binding them in a players home (including those in mods if possible, as city-bondage seems to do) might be useful to allow a player smiting and enchanting items. Note; I could not test the no-clothes deal due to the same slave collar.

gonna touch on this one a little bit

 

in a previous version i ran into this issue.  have not tested on 1.40 (yet, i just upgraded to that tonight)

IIRC

I am a Slut deal 

level 1 - tell people "I am a Slut" when follower tells you to 

level 2 - level 1 and be naked in town (when entering town follower throws your clothes/armor on the ground)

; i found that the Devious Follower would not "strip" you if you were in a town (but not inside a building) when you took this deal

; another note - in my game my Devious Follower would throw my gear on the ground (about 3-7 pieces depending on what i was actually wearing when entering town),

; but about 50% of the items stripped in this way would disappear "into the ether" (gone for good) where i could manually drop all the same items and none would disappear.

level 3 - level 2 and have wrists bound 

; i found that Devious Follower would not bind your wrists unless he/she also stripped you.

 

i thought i had posted about this, but on reflection think i meant to but had a case of RL Interruptus.

 

i will check this again and see if it is still the same as the last time i took that deal (and actually got stripped by my follower), and post results.

 

 

and also THANKS to the Lozeak for the great mod.

 

edit 

 

this behavior is fixed in version 1.4

 

Follower will unequip your gear now (not throw on ground), and will tie hands properly in town.

this behavior (stripping you and binding hands) will work in town even if you take the deal in town.

it does take a little time (depends on when follower figures out you are actually in town, and probably script lag if any).

 

end edit

 

 

 

[Lupine00]

Jaberwocky made some interesting points, though I think they might have differed a little if he'd played the mod for a bit longer, but he basically latched onto the thing that everyone notices pretty quickly.

 

It comes back to the same old concern that ... it feels like ... there should be a strong reason to have a follower, or they should be forced onto you in some way.

Either having a follower simply has to be the smart choice, or there shouldn't be a choice at all.

Sure, we know there may be some ... complications ... down the track, and maybe you get enslaved, and maybe you get sold off, but...

 

It should always feel like enslavement is due to mistakes you made, or really bad luck; it shouldn't feel like you had to force it to happen.

 

There needs to be carrot and stick to make you get a follower, so that the trouble they bring seems reasonable.

 

 

Otherwise, the act of taking on the follower feels like you're deliberately sabotaging yourself by hiring one.

 

 

Similarly, with follower "pricing", by pushing up the cost, you feel like you're basically creating the outcomes rather than they are naturally evolving.

Follower pricing currently requires endless fine-tuning. I'm currently using a base of 50 and 150 per-level, which is pretty 800 a day at level 5, and 3050 a day at level 20.

This is possible to meet, if you don't want to save for a house, and you don't fast travel. If you fast travel, you'll soon be in debt.

But... it feels like all your cash goes on the follower, and the game becomes overly cash oriented. Plus, a problem with speech skill can soon spiral into huge debt... Maybe too much, too fast?

 

 

Of course, the first thing that springs to mind is, "make it harder to dismiss followers somehow."

 

Previously, I suggested that you shouldn't be able to dismiss them if you have low willpower. This is a fairly mild approach, it might help a bit, but doesn't make a big difference.

 

 

Jaberwocky's idea that you can't buy them off with gold is pretty interesting.

 

Imagine if it was the case that there were a kind of debt that could only be paid off with deals?

 

 

i.e. If you have two "accounts", one for cash and one for deals; you add them together to find your total debt, but the deals account always has to be at or above a certain limit - and that limit starts at zero, so you can't run the deals account negative, at all.

 

Then you could make it so that item removal has to be bought out of the "deals" account.

 

You credit the deals account by taking deals, and then can spend from it on item removals, or simply use it to offset total debt, as you do now.

 

Or you could at least make that an option. If it's not selected then item removal comes out of the cash account, which is allowed to go negative, only limited by your total debt.

 

Once you have that mechanic, you can make the follower decide to charge other things to the deals account if there's credit in it.

 

 

Maybe add another mechanic, where the follower can do something else beneficial for you - charged to the deals account... It needs to be something you ask for explicitly. Key holding springs to mind, but it's a lot like item removal, but it could be something related to bounty removal, arousal removal, protection from arrest, protection from rapes or sleep rapes, etc.

 

 

And, for every point of willpower below 10, the deals account is allowed to go negative by a configurable amount.

Suppose you set it at 500 per willpower, at 0 willpower you could be 5000 in debt - a debt that can only be paid off by taking deals!

 

 

 

Well, that's one thing, but it doesn't answer the big question of "Why have a follower in the first place?"

 

In my last game, I (eventually) set DCL up so it only gave vanilla items a follower could remove, and turned key drops down to zero.

This made the follower the most practical way to escape DCL trap items, which I made ... frequent enough that there was no chance of finishing a dungeon without at least one going off.

 

 

I could do that without changing DF at all.

 

There are things you can do with SL Adventures, but they aren't quite right. It would be better if DF could to them itself.

 

 

It would be good if you could set it so having a follower protects from most rapes, except rapes that result from the slut deal or masturbation.

Then you could make rapes frequent, and punishing in both Wear & Tear, and post-rape robbery.

And the same for sleep rapes, but make the follower even more essential.

 

 

SL Adventures doesn't allow that detailed level of fine control: follower protects from rape is all or nothing in SL Adventures.

However, if DF had some added rapes of its own then you could use the SL Adventures mechanic, and still get all the DF rapes you're expecting.

I believe slut deal can trigger rapes, but it was extremely rare for me. It might only happen if your hands are bound, and that wasn't being enforced by DF when it should - though occasionally I would have a DCL trap item and then it would fire.

 

 

There are probably many other things you could change in a game to make it punishing not to have a follower.

 

 

The other thing is followers you never asked for... It could be an option that if you let your willpower get to five or lower (or configurable), so entering an inn results in you leaving with a follower, whether you like it or not ... because you just can't say no.

 

 

Add that to a positive incentive to have a follower for rape and robbery avoidance... Maybe a follower could be made almost essential to protect from sleep attacks?

 

Right now, no mod is doing this.

[Wyrade]

54 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Spoiler

Jaberwocky made some interesting points, though I think they might have differed a little if he'd played the mod for a bit longer, but he basically latched onto the thing that everyone notices pretty quickly.

 

It comes back to the same old concern that ... it feels like ... there should be a strong reason to have a follower, or they should be forced onto you in some way.

Either having a follower simply has to be the smart choice, or there shouldn't be a choice at all.

Sure, we know there may be some ... complications ... down the track, and maybe you get enslaved, and maybe you get sold off, but...

 

It should always feel like enslavement is due to mistakes you made, or really bad luck; it shouldn't feel like you had to force it to happen.

 

There needs to be carrot and stick to make you get a follower, so that the trouble they bring seems reasonable.

 

 

Otherwise, the act of taking on the follower feels like you're deliberately sabotaging yourself by hiring one.

 

 

Similarly, with follower "pricing", by pushing up the cost, you feel like you're basically creating the outcomes rather than they are naturally evolving.

Follower pricing currently requires endless fine-tuning. I'm currently using a base of 50 and 150 per-level, which is pretty 800 a day at level 5, and 3050 a day at level 20.

This is possible to meet, if you don't want to save for a house, and you don't fast travel. If you fast travel, you'll soon be in debt.

But... it feels like all your cash goes on the follower, and the game becomes overly cash oriented. Plus, a problem with speech skill can soon spiral into huge debt... Maybe too much, too fast?

 

 

Of course, the first thing that springs to mind is, "make it harder to dismiss followers somehow."

 

Previously, I suggested that you shouldn't be able to dismiss them if you have low willpower. This is a fairly mild approach, it might help a bit, but doesn't make a big difference.

 

 

Jaberwocky's idea that you can't buy them off with gold is actually pretty interesting.

 

Imagine if it was the case that there were a kind of debt that could only be paid off with deals?

 

 

i.e. If you have two "accounts", one for cash and one for deals; you add them together to find your total debt, but the deals account always has to be at or above a certain limit - and that limit starts at zero, so you can't run the deals account negative, at all.

 

Then you could make it so that item removal has to be bought out of the "deals" account.

 

You credit the deals account by taking deals, and then can spend from it on item removals, or simply use it to offset total debt, as you do now.

 

Or you could at least make that an option. If it's not selected then item removal comes out of the cash account, which is allowed to go negative, only limited by your total debt.

 

Once you have that mechanic, you can make the follower decide to charge other things to the deals account if there's credit in it.

 

 

Maybe add another mechanic, where the follower can do something else beneficial for you - charged to the deals account... It needs to be something you ask for explicitly. Key holding springs to mind, but it's a lot like item removal, but it could be something related to bounty removal, arousal removal, protection from arrest, protection from rapes or sleep rapes, etc.

 

 

And, for every point of willpower below 10, the deals account is allowed to go negative by a configurable amount.

Suppose you set it at 500 per willpower, at 0 willpower you could be 5000 in debt - a debt that can only be paid off by taking deals!

 

 

 

Well, that's one thing, but it doesn't answer the big question of "Why have a follower in the first place?"

 

In my last game, I (eventually) set DCL up so it only gave vanilla items a follower could remove, and turned key drops down to zero.

This made the follower the most practical way to escape DCL trap items, which I made ... frequent enough that there was no chance of finishing a dungeon without at least one going off.

 

 

I could do that without changing DF at all.

 

There are things you can do with SL Adventures, but they aren't quite right. It would be better if DF could to them itself.

 

 

It would be good if you could set it so having a follower protects from most rapes, except rapes that result from the slut deal or masturbation.

Then you could make rapes frequent, and punishing in both Wear & Tear, and post-rape robbery.

And the same for sleep rapes, but make the follower even more essential.

 

 

SL Adventures doesn't allow that detailed level of fine control: follower protects from rape is all or nothing in SL Adventures.

However, if DF had some added rapes of its own then you could use the SL Adventures mechanic, and still get all the DF rapes you're expecting.

I believe slut deal can trigger rapes, but it was extremely rare for me. It might only happen if your hands are bound, and that wasn't being enforced by DF when it should - though occasionally I would have a DCL trap item and then it would fire.

 

 

There are probably many other things you could change in a game to make it punishing not to have a follower.

 

 

The other thing is followers you never asked for... It could be an option that if you let your willpower get to five or lower (or configurable), so entering an inn results in you leaving with a follower, whether you like it or not ... because you just can't say no.

 

 

Add that to a positive incentive to have a follower for rape and robbery avoidance... Maybe a follower could be made almost essential to protect from sleep attacks?

 

Right now, no mod is doing this.

 

Wow, excellent and well thought out post, thank you for it!  

I like almost everything you wrote.

 

I think the separate debt account - for deals, itemremovals and others - is a great idea. Willpower affecting it the way you wrote is also great.

 

Using followers INSTEAD of having keys is another interesting idea. I certainly like it, and would be a great incentive to have followers - especially with appropriate settings to make it hard to get out of them without keys. 

An alternative could be to combine it with the keyholder idea, have the follower as a keyholder, but you couldn't have his/her held keys at all, but he/she would need them to unlock you, and the keys would be used up that way. It could be that he/she doesn't need keys for simple items, only for the more difficult ones. And of course there would be a debt cost as well for helping, even with a key. (Not sure how hard would this be to implement.)

 

I - personally - don't really like the forced follower upon visiting and inn, but that's mostly just because I'm picky with my followers. If I don't like an npc, I won't hire him/her usually.

 

If it can be done, there could be many interactions with DCL to make it more tempting to have a follower indeed, so that might be a nice direction to go.

 

Most importantly though, I agree with all of your reasoning, and your two main points - that we need a better carrot for hiring; and that a way for needing to pay with something beyond simple gold would be good. And that separate account idea feels just right to me.

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Lozeak said:

Weird, I didn't do that of course. I looked into it and if doesn't look like it doesn't do anything in SLA either so maybe it's a CK glitch or something.

Well, I'm not experienced in TES5 (I know some cause you have to, to make mods) so I would of never noticed it if CGi didn't.

 

That said, since CGi posted my update... I had to update.

 

So yea this took a bit of work but now Devious Followers can be a SS results (because I'm gonna support the mod until further notice) and it's a way to instantly get maxed out deals ^^.

 

What this means if you don't have a follower and get sent to SS you'll end up with a very fun one :).

Endless mode needs to be off and the save/load hasn't been updated yet.

(you can set up your game for DF to send you to a new follower but yea it won't make much sense)

 

Likly more tweaks and stuff to come in the next few days.

 

Could you set it up so that willpower is tracked constantly, and not reset to 10 when the follower is dismissed? It would be nice if the experience after getting sent to SS was somehow related to what happened before. Like, some mods put the PC through a lot before going to SS, so maybe shouldn't start at 10 willpower.

[Lupine00]

2 minutes ago, Wyrade said:

I - personally - don't really like the forced follower upon visiting and inn, but that's mostly just because I'm picky with my followers. If I don't like an npc, I won't hire him/her usually.

I didn't go deep into how this could be made nice, and I didn't get into the situation where you need to put your follower "on hold" for a while to do some vanilla content that gives you a follower.

 

I also didn't discuss the "manually blocking a follower from being devious" idea that's also been talked about a lot.

I think that idea has been talked over plenty, and either Lozeak will do it, or he won't, but I'm guessing he'll probably do it.

 

 

Those problems exist, definitely ... they all have solutions, but Lozeak has to choose what he can implement and what he wants to implement.

Tracking two accounts would probably require him to change a lot of script fragments, so it seems simple but could be a lot of busy-work.

 

 

Forced followers would be annoying, but that's sort of the point.

At the most basic, if you don't want to be stuck with a follower you don't like, hire one you do, while you still have the will to choose.

 

As for alternatives...

A week or two back, I posted (at some length) on a theoretical mechanic for swapping followers, and putting followers on hold.

It was in the ball park of ideas Lozeak had previously considered and backed away from as complicated/time-consuming to implement.

 

 

I think it was technically pretty straightforward, for a standard situation where you ever have one real follower at once - as it assumed a single follower scenario, and simply hid the recruiting and dismissing under the covers to create a seamless "immersive" transition, but I could see it becoming tricky with cases where people have a follower mod, and more than one follower.

[Lupine00]

3 minutes ago, Bobbert6996 said:

Could you set it up so that willpower is tracked constantly, and not reset to 10 when the follower is dismissed? It would be nice if the experience after getting sent to SS was somehow related to what happened before. Like, some mods put the PC through a lot before going to SS, so maybe shouldn't start at 10 willpower.

I think it already is, isn't it?

 

I see willpower being tracked, even when I've never had a follower.

[Lozeak]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It comes back to the same old concern that ... it feels like ... there should be a strong reason to have a follower, or they should be forced onto you in some way.

Either having a follower simply has to be the smart choice, or there shouldn't be a choice at all.

Sure, we know there may be some ... complications ... down the track, and maybe you get enslaved, and maybe you get sold off, but...

At the start of the mod, I thought of having debuffs or buffing the follower, I ended up not doing it because it might mess with the players settings.

I will eventually add things that do this either via this mod or Devious world.

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If you have two "accounts", one for cash and one for deals; you add them together to find your total debt, but the deals account always has to be at or above a certain limit - and that limit starts at zero, so you can't run the deals account negative, at all.

 

Then you could make it so that item removal has to be bought out of the "deals" account.

My issue with this is that item removal is it would end up being a feature that forces you to take deals, so I would have to have both systems to be happy. I'll think about it.

I do see the reasoning for this is that increasing the reason to take deals would be good. I may make it so only with a deal/s active the follower will remove items for debt.

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

positive incentive to have a follower for rape and robbery avoidance... Maybe a follower could be made almost essential to protect from sleep attacks?

These are good things but it can't be down to my mod to do them unfortunately, I could make it so the follower interrupts sex but I'm messing with other mods then, so this could cause bugs so 100% I  will not add these thing. (If I ever get round to Devious World, I may add things that followers have an effect on)

 

1 hour ago, Wyrade said:

I - personally - don't really like the forced follower upon visiting and inn, but that's mostly just because I'm picky with my followers. If I don't like an npc, I won't hire him/her usually.

I 100% do not want to force followers upon people 

1 hour ago, Bobbert6996 said:

willpower is tracked constantly, and not reset to 10 when the follower is dismissed

There is likely some code somewhere that does this, I will track it down and fix it. Thank you.

 

=============================================

 

Lupine00 post was really good and explained a lot of things that my mod can do.

 

I do know that some people will use this mod and think it has like no content or it's slavery system is too simple cause they don't understand deals. While, I'd love everybody to get what my mod can do there is a point where the mod being more fun is more important.

 

Simple Slavery now can make my mod be used in a totally new way....

Players that don't use followers can use this mod as it's enslavement system. I do plan of making it so you can select the follower you want to be the slaver too.

As a enslavement system used this way it's pretty cool and as I add more deals you'll be able to customise your experience even more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bathoz]

For the record, despite all this talk, I like what you're doing. It's almost more frameworky than otherwise, and is happy to leave details to other mods (and maybe some people who have solved those sorts of issues should post their own solutions).

 

My excuse for using a follower is playing a fairly impractical mage build – an illusionist. Doing that effectively in my combat setup without a meat bag in front of you is... challenging.

 

Worse, I've run into an issue where the DF scripts are stalling in my current game. Not certain why (and so many things can knock over the script engine), but I'll dig and try and solve it myself.

Personal request, though some sort of SLSO patch/integration down the road.

[Lupine00]

43 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

My issue with this is that item removal is it would end up being a feature that forces you to take deals, so I would have to have both systems to be happy. I'll think about it.

Simply by calculating the minimum allowed value for "deal" account differently, you can turn this mechanic off, so the option enable/disable would only impact one formula in one script.

 

43 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

I 100% do not want to force followers upon people 

How do you square that with the idea of having a follower forced on you by Simple Slavery?

 

Really, if they tick a box that says "Follower can recruit you" then you didn't really force it on the player.

The player pretty much said they want it.

 

And if they have to configure a willpower it can happen at, of more than ZERO (which I think would be a nice default), then that would be a double confirmation.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

I could make it so the follower interrupts sex but I'm messing with other mods then, so this could cause bugs so 100% I  will not add these thing. (If I ever get round to Devious World, I may add things that followers have an effect on)

Of course. Clearly, there's no way to block rapes and such because not one single rape-capable mod decided to implement an API that would let other mods veto a rape attempt via hooked callback... Well... You can send the DH suspend, but that's a bit of a blunt instrument.

 

 

The "assumption" in that suggestion was that either SL Adventures would see the light and support this, completely outside of and not dependent on DF, or you would add rape events and robberies of your own in DF or DW, set up and balanced to work with DF in its different modes (loner, follower, deals taken, enslaved).

 

SL Advs already allows a follower to block (its own) rapes, just not sleep creep etc.

 

 

 

I don't know if there's really a problem with people not understanding deals.

But it's really only a problem if they go straight to slavery without taking any, then go "Is that all?"

 

It would make some sense for the follower to simply force deals on you, if you owe enough to be enslaved but are below nine deals.

 

e.g.

If the follower said something like:

 "I need to recover some of the money you owe me. This is your last chance to pay up or make a deal."

   > Pay up [500 gold] (cost of this option depends on minimum amount to get below slavery threshold)

   > Alright, I'll make a deal.

   > Hah! Do your worst, you're just a follower. (Only available if your willpower high enough to refuse deals).