Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Lupine00]

43 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Sounds great in theory (and in real life being threatened with jail would definitely be scary), but in Skyrim isn't swapping debt for bounty a freebie?  Surrender to a guard, go to prison, click the bed to serve your term, and debt is cleared.  With prison overhaul installed this would take a little longer in real time, but you also get to watch some porn.  Prison is unpleasant for the character but not the player.   

 

Not if you have a jail replacement. There are several. Perhaps one more soon.

If you think it's weak-sauce you can either not pick it, or not enable it in the first place - but OTOH it doesn't exist now, so that's a non-problem.

I'm not really suggesting DF have its own jail enhancer - too far out of scope.

 

DF relies a fair bit on other mods to deliver synergy.

 

Not that you couldn't do several things to make "going to the Jarl" a real pain, but the goal here is fun for the player, not pain  

Skyrim has revenge via thugs built-in, along with other things you could do.

 

 

43 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

This could also be something like an embarrassing cap that must be worn in cities and towns (leaving the PC free to wear a helm or circlet elsewhere, and best of all this doesn't require use of a new slot).  For example, a cap with donkey ears proclaims the wearer a jackass & a fool, with derogatory NPC comments and a terrible penalty to bartering.  A cap with rabbit ears announces that the wearer wants sex at every opportunity and will not refuse any approach.  It's not a speech penalty, but the wearer will be verrrry popular and have trouble getting much done in town.  The downside is that this would require some scripting. 

See other notes on furry transformation above. I guess this is a less dramatic version of the same thing.

[Darkwing241]

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Those deals aren't in DF now, but either:

a) Lozeak releases 2.0 and it has some of them in it, or I add them as modular deals using the new framework.

b) He doesn't, in which case I will add them to existing DF for my personal use, maybe as a patch so others can use.

I would really love to see some small scale content mods for some of the frameworks that are out there.   I would download that for as little as one custom deal.  You could build on it from there whenever an idea strikes you.

 

My mod making experience is limited to modeling so far, maybe I will do some experimenting myself.

[Hex Bolt]

18 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Not if you have a jail replacement. There are several. Perhaps one more soon.

If you think it's weak-sauce you can either not pick it, or not enable it in the first place - but OTOH it doesn't exist now, so that's a non-problem.

I'm not really suggesting DF have its own jail enhancer - too far out of scope.

 

DF relies a fair bit on other mods to deliver synergy.

 

Not that you couldn't do several things to make "going to the Jarl" a real pain, but the goal here is fun for the player, not pain  

Skyrim has revenge via thugs built-in, along with other things you could do.

I don't think I explained myself well (also wasn't trying to rain on your parade, if it came across that way).

 

I wasn't suggesting that anything be un-fun.  I should have said "meaningful" rather than "unpleasant", as in having a consequence.  If my reaction to jail time is "Great, less debt!", then perhaps the jarl's involvement should be weightier, and this could be paired with jail time (jail + consequence).  If it feels like I got a lucky break being sent to prison, then something is missing.  Your point that jail could be toggled off if it seems too weak is well taken, I was just hoping to make it better so that few players would want to turn it off. 

 

My only experience with prison replacers is PoP.  It's fine for what it does and I had fun with it, but it's basically watching a movie.  It pales beside taking another deal, losing a privilege, having to pay the follower more, etc.  I'm aware of a prison mod that you must bully your way out of, but that's not suited to many of my characters.  Without either a consequential prison experience OR something else being done to the PC in addition to that, being sent to the jarl wouldn't feel like being sent to the principal's office for misbehaving. 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

 

My only experience with prison replacers is PoP.  It's fine for what it does and I had fun with it, but it's basically watching a movie.  It pales beside taking another deal, losing a privilege, having to pay the follower more, etc.  I'm aware of a prison mod that you must bully your way out of, but that's not suited to many of my characters.  Without either a consequential prison experience OR something else being done to the PC in addition to that, being sent to the jarl wouldn't feel like being sent to the principal's office for misbehaving. 

I agree with this completely, in so far as there is a certain ambiguity in terms like "consequential"  

 

I suppose we can plot our "prison experience" on two axes:  not-fun <---> fun, and inconsequential <---> consequential.

Fun is pretty subjective. Some people like watching the PoP movie over and over. I'm not one of them, so that creates a connection between consequential and inconsequential. For me, it plots a point over in the consequential, but not-fun quadrant.

 

You can get consequences out of PoP in terms of skill degradation, and it's pretty flexible in that area. It takes that part seriously.

And if you use Wounds with PoP, it certainly ... stings.

 

It could be more fun though, more interactive. Maybe if you could play an actual "game" to mitigate some of the consequences...

I don't have any easy answers on how to do that though. I am definitely curious to see what Kimy comes up with, and whether she does something fresh, or not.

[Lozeak]

On 2/18/2019 at 12:40 PM, Lupine00 said:

While I'm just spamming random ideas...

 

Some deal possibilities.

 

A deal to wear a device that gradually increases boob size over time (permanently).

A deal to wear a device that increases arousal, and once at 100 arousal, willpower starts to fade away, point by point.

A deal to wear a device that debuffs speech, substantially (tongue piercing?)

A deal that permanently subtracts a modest amount from your speech skill, you can regain it through experience, like normal. There's no need to ever pay it off, it's just money in exchange for brain damage.

A deal to drink alcohol (1) at least once before you can leave an inn.  (2) two bottles before sleeping and one before you leave. (3) whenever the follower says.

(This ones needs RND or something that adds drunkeness to have any real teeth).

Note that the player has to be able to buy the booze.

If they don't, or can't, they get punishment debt (but only once - the follower won't ask again until the next inn).

 

 

And more complex...

A deal to wear a device - a ring - that is a highly beneficial enchanted item, and it must always be paid off before any other deals can be removed.

 

The above device triples inn fees if locked on properly (by the player) if they have no key.

However, it multiples inn fees by 15, if not locked, or the player has a key.

(See Aradia for easy ways to do this sort of thing).

 

So, if you lock the ring on, it's beneficial, and adds a little cost (200 extra gold a night, harmless unless you are broke).

But if you refuse to lock it, it adds 1400 extra gold a night.

The item has a curse - hence the extra inn cost, but it's so good, you might not want to remove it anyway.

 

But wait ... turns out that there's a whole set of such items... Each really useful, and with some minor drawback if locked, that becomes major when unlocked.

 

The last item of the set is a doozie...

 

It's an amulet (so it blocks lucky charms).

Its curse destroys any item that you loot matching any of the cursed items you're wearing.

So your cursed breast-plate now vaporises any body armor that you loot.

Cursed gloves destroy gloves you loot, and so on. Goodbye to all those cheating lucky charms.

 

And when you get the amulet, you're wearing the whole set - you have to be to be given the final piece - and most pieces will probably be locked on too.

So then, you can't loot any armor items. They all vaporise. Oh well, never mind. At least you can still loot weapons ... unless ... well you can guess, can't you?

 

Good luck paying off those debts now.

 

 

The other minor curses all effect money too... Plus the initial ring, there are enough for body, arms, legs, head, and of course, final amulet.

 

gloves - If locked, alchemists charge extra, pay less. If unlocked, they also have no cash reserve.

head - If locked, general stores charge extra, pay less. If unlocked, they also have no cash reserve.

body -  If locked, blacksmiths charge extra, pay less. If unlocked, they also have no cash reserve.

boots -  If locked, food vendors charge a lot extra, pay a lot less. If unlocked, this extends to inn-keepers, wenches, and the effect is even stronger.

 

To remove an item, you have to pay off the debt, but that only stops the follower from fining you for not wearing it.

You also have to unlock it, if it was locked.

And they all have to be paid off before you can buy off any other deal.

And they have to be paid off, ring first, amulet last.

 

 

Plus, there are a bunch of weapons that look exactly like normal ones, but are also cursed. You encounter these from time to time routinely in loot.

Normally, they cause all other weapons of that type to vanish on looting - quite mild - and you can sell the cursed item normally, or drop it, and they only effect one weapon class (such as 1H axes).

 

But once you get the amulet, the curse worsens, and you cannot sell or drop of any of these cursed weapons until you get rid of the amulet.

At least you'll only have one of each type to lug about, and the weight for them changes to 2 at this point. Almost good, isn't it?

If you loot a higher value damage for a type (e.g. a better axe) maybe you get to keep it and the other one vanishes.

Having the curse only on ebony would be a bit of a giveaway.

 

Alternatively, this could work with items that simply gain weight when unlocked so you can loot less, making the curses are simpler to implement.

 

 

With the various "deals" above I finally have the immersive mechanics I was looking for, that create genuinely seductive paths to doom, and that you can flirt with, and possibly get away with, if you have to.

 

 I like a lot of these ideas. I'd like to make more cursed gear for the player and there are thing i wanr to do with looting but maybe it's out of scope in this mod. Either way long way off until i do anything else cause of what i need to do for 2.0.

 

============

 

Contracr thing is a good idea too but not yet!

 

Immersion isn't what I'm to worried about so currently with exsisting deals you can get a message box for each one so if you take a break and come back you don't have to spend long to know where you are.

 

The difference is I can't make message boxs for modular deals because there are 100s of different of combinations (unless i spam them for each rule and 9 message boxs back to back is too much). My soultion is a status page on the MCM using the front page. Where a player can look quickly to see there stats and deals.

 

After 2.0 and bug fixing I will be making a small mod i hope ^^.

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Lozeak said:

The difference is I can't make message boxs for modular deals because there are 100s of different of combinations (unless i spam them for each rule and 9 message boxs back to back is too much). My soultion is a status page on the MCM using the front page. Where a player can look quickly to see there stats and deals.

I think I'd prefer this to the message boxes anyway; the space in a message box was always an awkward limitation.

[qtpie]

Please could you make it easier to just be whored out?

 

Something like:

Quote

 

We can whore you out, or you can agree to a new deal, but one way or another you're paying me.

 

 

I really like this part of the mod, but I'm not always crazy about being forced to wear certain outfits, etc.

[Darkwing241]

1 hour ago, qtpie said:

Please could you make it easier to just be whored out?

 

Something like:

 

I really like this part of the mod, but I'm not always crazy about being forced to wear certain outfits, etc.

Radiant prostitution and other prostitution mods will serve you better, if you are looking for something to just cut right to the sex.  I don't think DF is really intended to be a smash you in the face sex mod.   It's more about foreplay and subtle build up.  For the type of gameplay you are describing DF is honestly a pretty horrible choice.

 

RP is a great compliment to DF if you choose them together, as it allows a way to get money when adventuring is not an option.

 

If you don't choose to explore other mods, you may still be able to make DF work, the next version is supposed to be more modular, you can disable/customize deals and the progressions.  It's not made yet but you will likely being able to set up a progression that involves whoring right from the start if that is what you desire. 

[qtpie]

2 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

Radiant prostitution and other prostitution mods will serve you better, if you are looking for something to just cut right to the sex.  I don't think DF is really intended to be a smash you in the face sex mod.   It's more about foreplay and subtle build up.  For the type of gameplay you are describing DF is honestly a pretty horrible choice.

 

RP is a great compliment to DF if you choose them together, as it allows a way to get money when adventuring is not an option.

 

If you don't choose to explore other mods, you may still be able to make DF work, the next version is supposed to be more modular, you can disable/customize deals and the progressions.  It's not made yet but you will likely being able to set up a progression that involves whoring right from the start if that is what you desire. 

 

No, the difference is that RP is boring unless you're fapping, while DF is a kinky enhancement of regular gameplay, with reminders of sexual danger every now and then.

 

DF let's you play regular gameplay, anywhere in the world. RP is confined to an inn (which is interesting for about 5 minutes).

 

DF forces you to comply, otherwise bad things happen, which means it doesn't necessarily conflict with whatever character story is in your head. RP makes your character have to willingly be a whore.

 

My issue with DF is that unless you stop at piercings, collars and cuffs, the deals become too intrusive for regular gameplay. Forcing you to strip, enforcing armor choice, enforcing gloves, boots, chastity belts.

Cuffs are kinky reminders that you get to fantasize about whenever you remember they're there, boots and gloves stop you from doing anything but walking around town.

 

As for being whored out, that's a kinky break from gameplay, and a reminder of the sexual danger present in most SexLab augmented Skyrims. Kind of like Deviously Enslaved, or horrible harassment. Not a different game entirely, which is what walking around an inn is like.

 

All this makes me think the whore deal (which is good by itself), would be a great addition to any SexLab skyrim, if it didnt force you to wear specific outfits and wear a plug etc.

A collar is good enough to identify the player as available for use, and the follower/NPC dialogue + the submit/resist menu is good for Roleplaying. 

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, qtpie said:

No, the difference is that RP is boring unless you're fapping, while DF is a kinky enhancement of regular gameplay, with reminders of sexual danger every now and then.

 

DF let's you play regular gameplay, anywhere in the world. RP is confined to an inn (which is interesting for about 5 minutes).

RP is no ME replacement, that is for sure. The problem with ME, is that it is not follower-compatible with DF in any way. There are other problems, but you can overcome them. ME and DF are not just ESP incompatible (you can merge your away around this with a few Tes5Edit hacks), they are conceptually incompatible. ME wants followers to have a certain mechanic and DF wants another.  It would be nice if you could simply toggle it. The localisation makes working with ME in the CK impossible for me in the more recent version (though it used to work going back), so I'm disinclined to hack about with ME.

 

Back to the point. DF as is, has quite a few scenarios where you are whored out one way or another, but the cash values involved are too small to matter. I'm not sure why they are so low. The real problem with those scenarios (if there is a problem) is that they feel context-free. The follower doesn't behave consistently or even in a way that is particularly beneficial to the follower, and it undermines immersion when they want you to whore out for 20 septims when they could get 2000 from loot. So the problem is not so much mechanics, as how the mechanics fit the narrative.

 

4 hours ago, qtpie said:

My issue with DF is that unless you stop at piercings, collars and cuffs, the deals become too intrusive for regular gameplay. Forcing you to strip, enforcing armor choice, enforcing gloves, boots, chastity belts.

Cuffs are kinky reminders that you get to fantasize about whenever you remember they're there, boots and gloves stop you from doing anything but walking around town.

Most of the things that interfere with combat are town only, even for high level deals. And the point is, if you get enough high-level deals, you're basically enslaved. Again the problem here is that the follower is a basic "machine" with little awareness of state, and thus lacks any coherent narrative direction in their behaviour.

 

With whore deals, I proposed a Whore Collar for DCL - inspired by ME - and it got implemented, but the way you receive them is totally random.

 

 

I've done a bit of work in the past in terms of prostitution mechanics. I made some progress on a mod to replace Skooma Whore with much more involved prostitution, and new dens to do it in. It may be that the best route forward is actually to enhance RP somehow, because the core of it is decent, it just lacks flexibility. Another thing is it lacks appreciation of travel cost and difficulty. This seems like it could also be fixed without enormous efforts.

 

@qtpie seems to want a DF that isn't much to do with the main objectives of DF - providing an ongoing hazard of player enslavement, and I'm struggling to produce an answer. It's a big topic. There are many ways to approach this, and different people want different things. 

 

It might look like DF could easily be tweaked to provide just the solicitation, but it can't.

 

If what you want is an ability to use DF as a prostitution mod, it currently lacks the ability to set it up so you can have just those kinds of deals. DF 1.X is unlikely to gain that ability. Lozeak is working on 2.X, where the deals will be modular instead of each one hand-coded as its own sequence. That might support a whoring-only path.

 

Coming full circle, ME remains the mod to beat if you want to do prostitution, with pimps, inn-keepers, and other "challenges". Even in ME, the pimp-whore relationship is very much a binary state, on or off. There's no fluid or progressive change.

 

Downsides of ME - no DD - lack of an options to customise the range of events - lack of ongoing development - conflicts with other mods - and quite a few bugs.

[Krazyone]

1. Idea for MCM feature... Progressive bondage.

 

Progressive bondage... Milestones in debt owed = mandatory wearing of items.

 

I liked the deals, but I think it would be nice if there was an automatic option.

 

2,000 debt = Wear kinky boots

4,000 debt = Wear transparent corset.

6,000 debt = Etc...

 

you get the idea...

 

Failure to do it, would result in tagging you as a whore to all. Be it human or animal.

I liked this, in the original version of Devious Follower.

 

 

 

2. Problem fix request... if your character is locked in the wrong devious items, or has lost the Devious Followers, Devious item to wear. Option to ask to buy another of the missing items.

 

I asked my follower to remove certain items, that was in the way of using the correct item. This option does not work with multi-lock devices. I found the multi-lock items impossible to be removed that way, I used the Cursed Loot, FREE ME MCM option. But I lost the correct items my devious follower wanted me to wear. As they get deleted, with the FREE ME, command.

 

Hence the need to buy them all back, at an inflated price.

 

Dialogue option.. Can you sell me all the correct gear, I've lost mine.

 

Adds 1,000 gold debt. Refit yourself after using the Deviously Cursed Loot, FREE ME option in its MCM.

 

 

 

3. Potions problems... without spoiling it, it lasts too short of a time. It should be 1 full day, for each dose. progressing slowly... I haven't progressed yet.

 

It would be nice if it was a forced milestone, in the debt you have accrued.

 

 

Just some ideas... 

 

[Lupine00]

5 hours ago, Krazyone said:

Idea for MCM feature... Progressive bondage.

Doesn't this diminish the significance of the deals?

 

I'd take a guess that Lozeak might have started with the idea of progressive bondage, and evolved it into something a bit more interesting than the single-track railroad that linear progressive bondage represents.

 

It's not just an MCM feature of course, it requires implementation beyond the MCM. And when must you wear these items? Only in town? In dungeons?

While I can see that some people that use DF a lot would get some value out of this, it also leads new users into a route that makes DF seem much more simplistic and dull than it really is. Certainly, if it was my decision, I'd kick this one out into the long grass as a luxury-feature for the distant future.

 

 

5 hours ago, Krazyone said:

Hence the need to buy them all back, at an inflated price.

The ability to ask for missing bondage items, as you can with the whore armor, has been requested on quite a few occasions.

 

If you get enslaved via SS, you don't get any of the items for your deals, which is problematic.

 

Currently, you have to resort to console hacks to get the items you need in a timely manner. Realistically, after being caught not wearing a deal item N times, the follower should lock one on you to stop absurdly escalating debt. Lozeak was against this because it's not player-driven. I see his point, but in practice there needs to be something, even if it's only an option. Not considering the case where they player cannot wear the item is a fairly major oversight, as there are so many ways this could occur - not just cases where you don't have it, but where some slot conflict blocks it.

 

That the mod itself manufactures this situation if you use SS is particularly frustrating though. Even more so, because it's considered in some cases, like the whore armor and various gag scenarios. This somewhat undermines the argument about not locking items on the player, because the mod does lock items on in numerous scenarios, even outside of slavery.

 

What happens now is either:

(a) you aren't enslaved, you lose your deal items, and are very quickly fined into enslavement.

(b) you are already enslaved, you somehow lose your deal items - or never had them in the first place. This follows after (a) too. You rapidly accumulate more debt until you hit one or another set of buffers like an out-of-control train. The outcome is always a broken relationship with the follower that derives from missing items you have no "in character" way to fix.

 

 

From what I can intuit, none of these missing device issues are likely to be fixed in the current DF code-base. If there's a fix, it will be in DF 2.X when/if that arrives.

[galgat]

On 2/22/2019 at 9:02 AM, qtpie said:

Please could you make it easier to just be whored out?

 

Something like:

 

I really like this part of the mod, but I'm not always crazy about being forced to wear certain outfits, etc.

  Well the outfit's seem to be a master slave thing, what master likes, the slave does.

 

But I agree in part a lot on the more forced sexual encounter's.  I would not want this to turn into a survival mod, plenty of those out there.

 

  No for me forced enslavement, and forced sexual encounter are the adult theme I like the best for a diversion in skyrim. ( always keep some profiles completely safe from any of that for main game playing, and survival type with broken or lost weapons, damaged armor, loss of ability, and what not.)

 

  I think the forced masochism, with the subject somewhat unwilling, but agreeing to because of Coercion, debt, friend in danger what ever is a nice trend for me in adult mods.  ( Of course with a lot of cheap, and superficial sex, and fetishes involved ) (  I am pretty open minded about all fetishes in digital game playing, and can still keep a closed mind about them in reality with no problems )

[Lozeak]

Making progress ... most of the modular deal system built ... the content works and it has been built with adding more content easily in the future.

 

A lot of people do say, I like this about that deal but not that... honestly, that's what this new system is about all the level 3 content won't be gated behind the content you don't want.

 

Readding devices that you lost... yes I have it planned, it's one of the reasons I made the Device Controller script it will mean adding content like that easily.

 

Me changing the mod into what people don't want... I not really adding any content that can't be turned off my intention is just to give more and more options to the player so that they can disable the stuff they really find annoying and hopefully there will be enough content for them to have fun.

 

The only thing that might piss people off is the willpower rework that will be in the next version ... but I'm open to changing it back if it doesn't work out.

 

I have no idea how long till 2.0 is ready I still have so much work to do.

What's Left...

MCM for Modular system (Hard work)

A display system for it (Normal)

Inventory Game thing (Hard. Not even got a complete idea yet(May delay this))

More device manipulation tools for MCM (Normal/Easy)

Bug checking/New stuff integration(Easy-Hard)

 

And even when it's done. I'm sure it's going to be a broken and buggy thing and will be more a release so people can find bugs for me/make suggestions

then on the next pass, I can add more content to Modular deals and w/e I feel like adding with the bug fixes.

 

 

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Lozeak said:

The only thing that might piss people off is the willpower rework that will be in the next version ... but I'm open to changing it back if it doesn't work out.

One of the benefits of the old willpower system is that it gives the closest thing to a useful measure of "submissiveness" - that isn't just a stat that changes according to whether you click yes or no in dialogs that have no consequence - that you can get from a mod right now.

 

With some tweaks to the "resistance" system so it doesn't have self-reinforcing decline to zero once it starts to drop (less willpower -> less resistance -> less willpower) it would exhibit some values other than 10 and 0 a bit more.

 

But the new design is a transitory stat, that's basically resistance without willpower. I don't think you'll get that sensation of decline, or the fun struggle of fighting to get it back up.

 

From what I've heard, instead it will be "I just woke up so I'm all sassy." Followed by some rapes and maybe a beating, so it becomes. "I'm all worn out now, so I'll just say yes." But it might be nothing like that.

 

 

While the old willpower mechanic lacked a certain purity of design intention, people sort of had an intuitive idea what it was, and it pretty much delivered their expectation.

 

 

I'm not sure what the new one is for, or how it will work, but I think I will miss the old stat.

 

 

I always had an intent to add Willpower to SLD as an input, and there have been requests to that effect. I'm not sure the new stat will make sense in that role though. Maybe it's just fear or change... I guess we'll see. But for my part, I like the idea of a battle to raise or retain willpower, that maybe you can make progress on - at a cost - and that involves interesting choices, rather than just a resource you burn up and then refill every night.

 

I also like how wearing devices slows willpower restoration - though the existing mechanic is a bit coarse grained. It would be nicer if a nipple piercing wasn't considered the same as an armbinder, or a collar the same as a chastity belt.

 

I like how it effects deal choices, and follower demands. It just needed more situations where you could say yes or no, to get more value from it - and the "contract" style dialog would open that up.

[galgat]

 You're doing a great job, don't worry about us, it's your mod, do it the way you like,  no matter what you do some will find something wrong with it, and other's will love it.. follow your own feelings, and enjoy creating a fantasy.

 

   Every thing I have seen you have really done a great job of allowing us to tone it up or down in quite a few way's, and that has made it get better, and better.. Thank you for your hard work.

[Darkwing241]

18 hours ago, Lozeak said:

The only thing that might piss people off is the willpower rework that will be in the next version ... but I'm open to changing it back if it doesn't work out.

It's tough to revamp anything in a mod without disappointing someone.  I try to keep an open mind.  It's not like the old system was without problems, I just hope the new system maintains a similar narrative.

 

My fears are mostly that things will become 'instant-rape-y' or 'instant-slave-y' or that the mod will become suffocating and no longer integrate well with skyrim game-play or other kink mods.

 

I'm not particularly worried, as it sounds like the benefits outweigh the costs

 

 

 

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

It's tough to revamp anything in a mod without disappointing someone.  I try to keep an open mind.  It's not like the old system was without problems, I just hope the new system maintains a similar narrative.

I wanted to lay out what I like about the old willpower system, so there's more chance those good things will end up preserved in the new one.

Maybe not as willpower exactly; it doesn't matter.

 

As I know very little about how the new willpower will work in practice, I'm not set against it.

I'm a bit dubious from what I've heard so far, but as I also said, that could just be fear of change.

 

It can only be judged on how it finally plays out.

[Lozeak]

Willpower at the moment feels like it's all or nothing and mid area willpower doesn't happen enough.

 

So I thought and listened to suggestions for a while and eventually, I couldn't see a good way to balance the recovery and loss of willpower then make it customizable so that it's easy to understand.

 

Instead, I'm making it so it just recovers to 10 (or full) every time you rest and as you progress in the mod it will drop faster or in other words the more deals/devices you have the weaker your Willpower is and you break easier and will have to rest again.

 

Benefits of this are this (and the reason that I want to add it)

If a player finds willpower drops too slow or fast they can tweak it very easily in the MCM

Other mods that use the Willpower stat don't need some complex script to make sure it's in sync with other mod, just have a script that set's it at 10 after sleeping then they can have there own systems to reduce since it's injected into Update.esm

 

Then once this is all true I can add content that makes having 0 willpower dangerous or something a player wants to avoid meaning if you get unlucky after meeting some bandit you might need to scramble to town cause your follower might exploit you more or force things upon you or maybe others will take the chance to play with you when your Willpower is low.

 

As for hows it's done in the mod it used deals/devices to determine how fast Willpower drops and the amount it effects is tweakable in the MCM

I also added an MCM option that deals can reduce your max willpower so that it will feel more like old DF meaning you need to get out you deals if you want 10 Willpower (it's off by default) 

 

So basically, if players want they can have it similar to OLD df but will likely see more mid willpower content (there isn't much anyway) but it also lets me have the system in a way I can have more fun making content in the future for this mod and others if I ever get round to it.

 

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I will just keep doing the stuff I'm doing yea. I made the mod at the start just cause I wanted a certain kind of content and to practice coding/modding and only shared it cause I thought ahh maybe someone will like it, I didn't think it would be this popular or people would enjoy the way I made it. Now though, I'm kinda just making the mod cause I enjoy the challenge and to see what I can do and give something back for all the mods I enjoyed in the past like @galgats :P.

 

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As for the mod not working with Skyrim or other mods. Don't worry I have put a lot of effort to make sure it doesn't conflict and work with Skyrim gameplay and other mods, in fact, there are some small coding tweaks that should allow the mod to work better with some follower mods and Skooma whore (because you can't sleep in that mod!) and even then there is a pause and you can turn off content that gets in the way.

[Darkwing241]

3 hours ago, Lozeak said:

As for hows it's done in the mod it used deals/devices to determine how fast Willpower drops and the amount it effects is tweakable in the MCM

So willpower is going to be the 'short term stat' and long term progression is going to be managed by the deal/device count?  Seems like it should work pretty well.

 

Have you given any thought to different deals having different effects on willpower and/or the "count"?

 

-Some deals could be mostly cosmetic (ex. get a piercing.  nothing particularly submissive about that outside of the larger context of the story)

 

-Some deals could be extremely focused on breaking the PC's willpower down (ex. the 'hand on shoulder' deal)

 

-You could even add some 'low impact' deals like signing contracts that serve pretty much exclusively to manipulate the deal count in a thematic way.  Or maybe this could be an example of a deal that doesn't impact the count but caps your willpower (you've agreed to do as you're told)? or it has some other effect?

 

If you think of managing your willpower and struggling to maintain your freedom as the "game" of DF, you could gain some flexibility and differentiate deals a little bit.  There is something very "RPG" about managing your stats, it would also give some incentive for players to experiment with deals they wouldn't otherwise take.  You could honestly even add willpower boosting items or potions or something, maybe items with a tradeoff?

 

How much power to manipulate willpower and the count do you think your new system will have?  It seems like there could be a lot of potential!

 

 

[eulexia]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:24 AM, Krynn said:

 

Oh, now I see that!
Unfortunately, I can not find the thread any more, but did not the problem have something to do with hdt?
I think there was a patch for the chains.

 

...Thank you!  I updated HDT, and that did indeed fix it.  You rock.

[bathoz]

I mean, surely it's simple enough to have a thing that goes "you have been marked with the tattoo of submission" and every time you wake up it automatically docks you 2 willpower, so your max is essentially 8. 

[Vbarding]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:46 AM, Lupine00 said:

This has been answered as no, before.

Obviously, circumstances can change, but that task did not seem to appeal.

 

I guess if somebody makes a conversion, that could change things.

As a note, this seems to work without any major problems in special edition.  Loading it as is without any conversions didn't seem to break anything, an additional step to run through the steps various guides have for converting mods to SE is probably in order to avoid unexpected results.  The only issues I've seen are some of the models/meshes don't seem to work correctly (the transparent boots have disappearing shins and HDT support currently seems to be lacking in SE, for things like the pony tail.

[Lupine00]

58 minutes ago, Vbarding said:

As a note, this seems to work without any major problems in special edition.  Loading it as is without any conversions didn't seem to break anything, an additional step to run through the steps various guides have for converting mods to SE is probably in order to avoid unexpected results.  The only issues I've seen are some of the models/meshes don't seem to work correctly (the transparent boots have disappearing shins and HDT support currently seems to be lacking in SE, for things like the pony tail.

There are projects to port both DD and DCL to SE, which should include the boots, if not the tail. You might find a functioning version of the tail in a SLAV conversion.

[legraf]

4 hours ago, Vbarding said:

(the transparent boots have disappearing shins and HDT support currently seems to be lacking in SE, for things like the pony tail.

The disappearing shins are present for me in oldrim too - I haven't tested much as assumed I'd done something wrong, or perhaps the disappearance was due to leg cuffs with the boots (and I preferred visible boots anyway).