Devious Followers (8 June 2019)

[Darkwing241]

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

Inventory control planned

 

Basically, being forced to carry stuff for your follower making the game harder because of the lack of space. I know the system I want to use BUT i need to work it in a fun way but think it of a gold mode system.

 

Making it fun is a tough thing to do, it is essentially a drawback and drawbacks by their nature are not fun.  I definitely think you should go for it though as it inventory control is so thematic.  It might be easier to make it sexy then fun.

 

I think an obvious solution is to make the PC carry devious devices, or other sexual items.  Dildo's, slutty clothing ect.

 

One of the themes in DF that I love is the sense of foreboding.  The feeling that the PC is about to be taken advantage of.  The hinting can often be hotter than the actual payoff.  Making the PC carry a pair of Devious heels for example would be great because it could be done long before the followers demands become overtly sexual, but implies something sexual.  You could then follow it up with more overly sexual items as things ramp up. 

 

Another option would be to use carrying items as a segue into having the PC try items on when the deal progresses to the next stage. "oh hey, before we sell those boots you should try them on, I bet they would look great!"  This fits the progression of domination in your mod pretty well.  Follower>Leader>non-sexual domination>sexual domination.

 

2 hours ago, Lozeak said:

New modular deals that the player can customize things they like and dislike to create kind of custom deals, for example, the stage 1/2 levels will pick rules from a list and the stage 3 deals will pick from a different list.

I have mixed feeling about this one.  After playing many mods I am beginning to have a preference for well crafted linear stories.  I would point to Amorous Adventures and (parts of) Captured Dreams as mods that do this well.  I believe there is an over reliance on randomization to create "infinite replayability."  A moderately sized collection of linear stories, like your current deal system allow for a pretty high amount of replay already when you factor in all the other changing circumstances in Skyrim.  Things like set-up, pacing and tone are REALLY important for things to seem sexy.  There are enough mechanical feeling sexlab scene spawner mods.

 

That being said there are a lot of things about a modular system that seem great.  Being able to tailor the mod to suit each users personal kinks is pretty dang powerful.

2 hours ago, Lozeak said:

the next mod should be more compatible with ATF EFF

I cannot say enough how much you dedication to making things run smoothly is appreciated.  It's weird how in regular gaming I skip past the bug fix part of patch notes but in modding they are often the most exciting part!

 

[donttouchmethere]

3 hours ago, Lozeak said:

Follower compatibility tweaks done.

 

The next mod should be more compatible with ATF EFF or w/e they are called so the content that adds and removes follower will hopefully not break your game.

atm I am amazed how compatible this new follower framework works with all those devious LL mods:
Nether's Follower framework

I never had any issues with DF followers not being able to dismiss

works so far flawless with:

> PAHE

> DCL followers

> DCL new dom system

> DEC

> DF

> SD+

> DH

 

and works great together with:

>RDO

especially in combination with

> Simple NPC Outfit manager

[Lozeak]

Small Clarifications,

 

The existing deals are not being put into the modular system.

The Modular system will run as it's own deals.

The reason behind this is it will make adding more options easier without having to create 3 stages and an entire quest for 1 thing.

I'm pretty sure the build your own deal thing won't exist more you can set a random set of rules for the deals to pick from.

 

Basically once done I could add a stage 3 into it.

 

Comments on story/linear content.... this mod is meant to be random really and run alongside other content ... I'd like to add more linear content one day but meh I keep working on this.

 

Device adding randomly...

 

Ok yes, there are easy ways of doing this... but I dunno I want to build a script that could be used on anymod once initialized.

 

DCL system uses formlists in the esp

DDe not looked at it but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be a way I want to make it.

 

Once I have it working... I'll create an esp and mod for it so you can customize it a little bit but the script will always work without an esp...

Basically, if I make mods in the future I don't want to do this again and if people want a way to add random stuff to a player they can.

 

Other follower mod should work fine basically my mod will detect and use the frameworks system to add and remove follower (ATF/EFF) some mods use the game so I don't need to worry about em.

DD it's self, had a system but it hasn't been kept up to date (I think) and the way it used keywords changed (DD3->DD4) a little so it's hard to ask for the right item without jumping through hoops.

 

It is kind of easy but time-consuming cause it's a lot of data entry... I did automate but it took like 5-6 minutes to initialize and I don't like that so I have to manually put stuff in.

[Lupine00]

7 hours ago, Darkwing241 said:

I think an obvious solution is to make the PC carry devious devices, or other sexual items.  Dildo's, slutty clothing ect.

 

One of the themes in DF that I love is the sense of foreboding.  The feeling that the PC is about to be taken advantage of.  The hinting can often be hotter than the actual payoff.  Making the PC carry a pair of Devious heels for example would be great because it could be done long before the followers demands become overtly sexual, but implies something sexual.  You could then follow it up with more overly sexual items as things ramp up. 

 

Another option would be to use carrying items as a segue into having the PC try items on when the deal progresses to the next stage. "oh hey, before we sell those boots you should try them on, I bet they would look great!"  This fits the progression of domination in your mod pretty well.  Follower>Leader>non-sexual domination>sexual domination.

That really has the Devious Followers flavor.

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, Lozeak said:

It is kind of easy but time-consuming cause it's a lot of data entry... I did automate but it took like 5-6 minutes to initialize and I don't like that so I have to manually put stuff in.

Generate arrays in code that has an ESP, using all the "automation" you like, slow DD calls, etc.

 

Save arrays out as JSON with JsonUtil.

Load them back whenever you need them, they are cached, so you don't need to worry about the loads being slow.

 

Player can even edit the JSON if they want, but they better be careful

 

If you want to save outfit sets, there is no quick and lazy way to get that - either you pull it off the PC's state, or you have an MCM to make it.

The former is obviously the easiest, but then the PC has to get into that state so you can copy it, and how do they do that?

You can save a small array that lists what goes in each slot once you have the state.

[bathoz]

Re device adding tool, is there any reason something like Devious Device Equip couldn't work?

[DustyEverman]

On 1/9/2019 at 3:18 AM, HexBolt8 said:

Just wanted to say that I really like how this idea turns the relationship around in a way that feels natural for a weaker or insecure PC, while still motivating the player to play Skyrim and attempt to make money for that bonus amount.

This is probably way to late to respond to this, but if you want to roleplay as a Follower, then you might like this mod:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/95036

It adds the 'Dovahkiin' as a Follower, basically allowing you to roleplay the Main Quest as the Dragonborn's Follower, instead of as the Dragonborn.

[HexBolt8]

2 hours ago, DustyEverman said:

On 1/8/2019 at 9:18 PM, HexBolt8 said:

Just wanted to say that I really like how this idea turns the relationship around in a way that feels natural for a weaker or insecure PC, while still motivating the player to play Skyrim and attempt to make money for that bonus amount.

This is probably way to late to respond to this, but if you want to roleplay as a Follower, then you might like this mod:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/95036

It adds the 'Dovahkiin' as a Follower, basically allowing you to roleplay the Main Quest as the Dragonborn's Follower, instead of as the Dragonborn.

Thank you for the suggestion.  It's interesting that someone made a mod for that!

 

I use Skyrim Unbound and usually make my character non-Dragonborn with no shouting ability.  In my current game my character is Dragonborn, but was in service to a follower at the time of the first dragon attack (which with Skyrim Unbound I delayed until later in game, and it occurred randomly, outside Riften).  I role played this as the follower taking credit, bribing the lone guard who was a witness.  Now my character is forbidden to shout and must address the follower as "Dragonborn" (edited a few lines of follower dialog).  It's a lie, but that's the life of a slave.  So I got there, just in a different way. 

[Lozeak]

5 hours ago, bathoz said:

Re device adding tool, is there any reason something like Devious Device Equip couldn't work?

Cause it's a player tool not a modder tool. Basically, I'd need to make it a requirement which means it's not possible.

 

The thing I'm making is close to done now anyway customizable in a json and esp free meaning it can be used cross mod without requirements outside of DD that is. So i never need to make it again and people can steal it!

 

There are a few more hoops/error catches for me to do and hopefully add a ton of useful function and a way to have themes.

[CuriouslyMods]

Would I have permission to convert this mod to work in SSE? I'd like to post the conversion in this thread for you to then have available to distribute to others.

[qtpie]

Is there a workaround for Stenvar? His recruitment dialogue doesn't work

[Lozeak]

4 hours ago, CuriouslyMods said:

Would I have permission to convert this mod to work in SSE? I'd like to post the conversion in this thread for you to then have available to distribute to others.

Yes. You can post it up as mod as well if you want since i have no immediate plans to move to SE just yet.

[Lupine00]

2 hours ago, qtpie said:

Is there a workaround for Stenvar? His recruitment dialogue doesn't work

I think all genuine mercenaries are broken, and have been since the beginning.

You can recruit them in some backwards way though, where they give you the dialogue about you owing a debt they'll recover for someone.

 

I think in that case, you just talk to them, without any existing follower, but after having had a DF previously, and they join. You don't have to invite them. They join whether you want them or not. But my memory is hazy TBH.

[Lozeak]

@Lupine00

Have a look at this if you feel like it!

So I'll upload this script now it's nearing completion... it took a lot of work!
It's not finished (some tidying and reordering)

I've finally finished this thing and maybe I put too much work in but I think it's an incredible tool that works cross mod!

So here it is .... a cross mod random device adder that can use sets and be customized via a Json it creates.

Once the Json is built it runs pretty fast.
 

Maybe it was too much work for something no one but me will use but at least when I get to making my next mod and can just copy and paste this script!

 

Sample Json it creates!

 

_LDC.psc

Device Settings.json

[Lupine00]

4 hours ago, Lozeak said:

too much work in

Surely, no such thing?

 

RegisterCatsuitSockandHand ... why not RegisterCatsuitBootsAndGloves?

 

 

Because Papyrus sucks so much, you might want to factor out things like...

 

    int n = StorageUtil.FormListCount(kw, "LDCDevices")

    ...
    while n > 0 && i < n

        ...
    endWhile
 

To 

 

if n

    while i < n

        ...

    endwhile

endif

 

Because the Papyrus compiler has no optimizer, but you can avoid testing n>0 every iteration if you promote it out of the loop.

 

But you can avoid doing searches like that if you store more data.

If you pair up lists with the name and the form, then you can use Find to get the index of the name, then get the from by fetching that index.

No search loop required - the iteration is all done in native code, which is a few thousand times faster.

 

You don't want that duplicate data in your json, but you can build it into StorageUtil when traversing the json.

[hdevore]

Hi 

 

Just wanted to say thanks to Lozeak (and everyone else, especially Lupine) for creating and contributing to this. This is probably the mod I’ve got the most out of in play-time - DCL complements it nicely and CD is a great mod but this one is excellent for replayability ???

 

thanks

 

[Kalthen]

On 2/6/2019 at 9:49 PM, Lozeak said:

Building a Device controller tool

Maybe you could hook into intes DD Equip. It let's you save personal device prefs. 

[Lozeak]

5 hours ago, Kalthen said:

Maybe you could hook into intes DD Equip. It let's you save personal device prefs. 

 

I will take this into consideration once the script is complete since I always found it a shame when you set up DDe and no mods really used it.

 

On release, if a mod adds DDe (I may do this myself) items to _LDC then you could select sets via a string and also deleting unwanted items in the JSON meaning you could kind of configure what items are used.

 

I think _LDC pulling info from DDe MCM would be a good expansion to the system and I should be able to do but I don't think I'll do it until I have Devious Follower 2.0 out cause there is still a ton of work to do on that first.

[Kalthen]

7 minutes ago, Lozeak said:

I will take this into consideration once the script is complete since I always found it a shame when you set up DDe and no mods really used it.

Right? Was wondering the same thing.

But hey man, you do you;) Still having a blast with the current version. Works damn better without EFF and other Frameworks. So thanks for considering them in 2.0. I tried to patch in RDO with EFF but I soon realised how much work it is. 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Kalthen said:

1 hour ago, Lozeak said:

I will take this into consideration once the script is complete since I always found it a shame when you set up DDe and no mods really used it.

Right? Was wondering the same thing.

 But hey man, you do you;) Still having a blast with the current version. Works damn better without EFF and other Frameworks. So thanks for considering them in 2.0. I tried to patch in RDO with EFF but I soon realised how much work it is. 

 

Right now, the problem with DDe is that it's dead in the water.

 

How can a DD mod that refuses to update to DD4 have any meaningful future?

 

A DD mod that doesn't work with DD? It makes no sense.

 

 

Sure, it appears to work, until you try to remove some heavy bondage, and then it doesn't.

Its items are essentially corrupt.

 

DDe has intentionally refused to patch or update for 4.2

Users have to modify the keywords on items in DDe using Tes5Edit themselves if they want it to work.

 

 

As far as PoP goes, it makes more sense to not use DD in PoP, and not install DDe unless you maintain your own copy of it.

 

 

I'm not surprised that Kimy perceives DDe as a calculated attempt to fragment and block DD development.

 

Inte has released multiple updates to it - over a year - and all of them really only work with DD 3.X - a mod you can't download, filled with bugs, that won't even work with newer mods at all.

 

That's a statement right there. I don't really know what it's trying to say ... but what I hear is "DDe is designed to make users think that DD4 is broken."

 

DD4 is not all perfect, but there is no path back to the DD3.X days. DDe refuses to acknowledge this. DD4 is substantially better than DD3.  The MCM was a shock after DD3, but you get used to it. For new users, it might genuinely be better. DD4 improves over 3 is almost every other respect. People have forgotten how broken corset+chastity belt was under 3, or how pointless the inventory locking was, or how often the animations didn't apply properly.

 

I think it's fine for PoP to not support DD; Zaz is quite suitable for what PoP does, and PoP needs Zaz for furniture anyway, but PoP does not need DD, or DDe. DDe either needs to be updated properly, or admit it's broken, abandon it, move on, and remove it from PoP. Currently, new users are being misled into downloading a mod that doesn't work, and then installing for use with another mod, so it breaks it.

[Darkwing241]

2 hours ago, Lozeak said:

 

I will take this into consideration once the script is complete since I always found it a shame when you set up DDe and no mods really used it.

 

On release, if a mod adds DDe (I may do this myself) items to _LDC then you could select sets via a string and also deleting unwanted items in the JSON meaning you could kind of configure what items are used.

 

I think _LDC pulling info from DDe MCM would be a good expansion to the system and I should be able to do but I don't think I'll do it until I have Devious Follower 2.0 out cause there is still a ton of work to do on that first.

Wasn't there some issue with DDe being forever non-compatible with up to date DD?  I recall some drama but I don't know if it ever got worked out.  If that community split is still going on I would hate to see your mod become suddenly incompatible with the majority of other kink mods.   As I understand it the reason no mods interact with DDe is 100% DDe's fault.

 

DDe refusing to update to modern versions of its supports mods is frankly pretty scummy IMO.  There was always kind of a rule in the modding world that you update your mods to work with their modern counterparts, otherwise everything fall apart.  As a fan, I would really  rather not see you split off on that path. 

[kurotatsu]

14 hours ago, Kalthen said:

Maybe you could hook into intes DD Equip. It let's you save personal device prefs. 

i think adding DD Equip dependncy is a bad idea until it gets properly updated to DD4. It's still intentionally being kept as DD3-compatible, which is no good.

[Kalthen]

14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

A DD mod that doesn't work with DD? It makes no sense

I didn't realize... I just thought it sad that the approach was something that never got used. I also don't get milage from DDe. Anyhow, I am all for choice and customizing DD to taste. 

 

So I really love that DDF 2.0 has customization in mind however its' players taste. 

[DarmanSejuk]

Is the slavetats section under 'other mod settings' just a place holder for now? Or is there a way to enable it?

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, DarmanSejuk said:

Is the slavetats section under 'other mod settings' just a place holder for now? Or is there a way to enable it?

It depends on a specific pack being installed. I forget which. Possibly the "sluts" pack?