Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Richard1234]

It seems like unequipping hobble dresses doesn't remove the run speed debuff. I tried with 3 different (non-extreme) dresses, all with the same result.

 

1. Equipping the dress for the first time puts 2 speed debuffs on the player. There's a 1 or 2 second delay between the first and second debuff being applied. Unequipping the dress removes one of the speed debuffs, but not both.

2. Equipping the dress a second time puts a bigger speed debuff on the player. Unequipping the dress doesn't remove the speed debuff.

 

I haven't noticed any effects if the dress is equipped a third time. The character is already running quite slowly then.

Note:

- I equipped the dresses with the manipulate locks option for easy testing.

- I don't know how the speed debuffs of the dresses actually work. I only tried to describe as best as I could what I notice in game.

 

I haven't noticed this behaviour in DDi 4.0

 

Can anyone reproduce this? Or maybe my installation is borked?

 

Edits: tried to clarify and describe more accurately what I noticed in game.

[El_Duderino]

6 hours ago, Richard1234 said:

It seems like unequipping hobble dresses doesn't remove the run speed debuff. I tried with 3 different (non-extreme) dresses, all with the same result.

 

1. Equipping the dress for the first time puts 2 speed debuffs on the player. There's a 1 or 2 second delay between the first and second debuff being applied. Unequipping the dress removes one of the speed debuffs, but not both.

2. Equipping the dress a second time puts a bigger speed debuff on the player. Unequipping the dress doesn't remove the speed debuff.

Hi, I just tried this is in my game and couldn't replicate it.

 

My char's speedmult before equipping the extreme dress was 109 (including a buff from one of my other mods, didn't bother to check which). After equipping the dress, speedmult was 35, which is exactly what it should be according to my hobble speed = 65 MCM setting. The console info showed one instance of the Hobble skirt script in the hidden active effects list. Unequipping the dress restored the original speedmult of 109. 

 

In a second test rght after the first one, I unequipped the dress while another mod's speedmult debuff was also active (in this case, PerMa's low stamina speed debuff). After unequipping the dress, the speedmult was lower than 109 and then rose back to the original 109 as the stamina bar got filled up again.

 

So far, all seems fine here in my game.

 

Could some others be so kind to also test this? Maybe there are other mods or (un-)equipping sitations where things are in fact not okay?

[LazyBoot]

11 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

6 hours ago, Richard1234 said:

It seems like unequipping hobble dresses doesn't remove the run speed debuff. I tried with 3 different (non-extreme) dresses, all with the same result.

 

1. Equipping the dress for the first time puts 2 speed debuffs on the player. There's a 1 or 2 second delay between the first and second debuff being applied. Unequipping the dress removes one of the speed debuffs, but not both.

2. Equipping the dress a second time puts a bigger speed debuff on the player. Unequipping the dress doesn't remove the speed debuff.

Hi, I just tried this is in my game and couldn't replicate it.

 

My char's speedmult before equipping the extreme dress was 109 (including a buff from one of my other mods, didn't bother to check which). After equipping the dress, speedmult was 35, which is exactly what it should be according to my hobble speed = 65 MCM setting. The console info showed one instance of the Hobble skirt script in the hidden active effects list. Unequipping the dress restored the original speedmult of 109. 

 

In a second test rght after the first one, I unequipped the dress while another mod's speedmult debuff was also active (in this case, PerMa's low stamina speed debuff). After unequipping the dress, the speedmult was lower than 109 and then rose back to the original 109 as the stamina bar got filled up again.

 

So far, all seems fine here in my game.

 

Could some others be so kind to also test this? Maybe there are other mods or (un-)equipping sitations where things are in fact not okay?

I'm also see normal behaviour.

start at normal speed,

50 with hobbledress,

normal speed when unequipped.

 

I repeated this 4 times and observed the same numbers every time.

 

So it seems more info will be needed from Richard1234 about this.

[Richard1234]

Ok, thanks for checking guys. I'll reinstall and try to replicate again.

[El_Duderino]

22 minutes ago, Richard1234 said:

I'll reinstall and try to replicate again.

I don't think a faulty installation could cause this. The speedmult debuff gets applied via enchantment of the worn armor (the dress) which then fires a single script (zadx_HobbleSkirtEffectScript) upon enchantment start to begin, monitor, and stop the debuff, so if there's something wrong with the installation I doubt it would work at all. Please upload more details (log, load order?) if the problem persists, which might point to a mod conflict or an issue with the script itself. 

[El_Duderino]

Thanks @donttouchmethere. Hm, yes, this might be a problem. In its current form, the script will check and if necessary force its own speedmult debuff (the one set in the DD MCM) onto the player every few seconds, this was done to combat the situation from before where the player would in intervals speed up / slow down massively as the hobble dress speedmult fought with other mods' speedmults. 

 

I don't have any of the four mods you mentioned but it's absolutely possible that there are mods out there which don't like this and don't reset their own speedmult penalties after their enchantments expire (or through whichever method those mods might apply the de-/buff.)

 

Looks like this needs more testing.

[Nazzzgul666]

@SpaceHamst3r Already thought i have much more in mind than you did.  

In this case, imho it still might be better to make a few alternative versions of different animations, but not for all items (yet). i'm not sure how thisworksand how you work, if it's a "It takes a day to makeone animation and 10 minutes to make the other items" thing rather than one day for each version i'd be wrong,, but i don't think so. So... if you don't consider it important for your training or something, i'd still rather prefer viewer animations and more variations/higher quality. Even if that means there will be only 1-2 animations in total per item. But that might also just be me. And for me they don't necessarily need to be consensual either.

Picking different animations to change also would be less work for you in the long (and possibly even short) run, i could imagine some animations are easy to fit with an armbinder but hard with breast yoke, for example. Instead of bothering with working around the clippings or stuff... might easier just to pick another one.  

 

1 hour ago, El_Duderino said:

Thanks @donttouchmethere. Hm, yes, this might be a problem. In its current form, the script will check and if necessary force its own speedmult debuff (the one set in the DD MCM) onto the player every few seconds, this was done to combat the situation from before where the player would in intervals speed up / slow down massively as the hobble dress speedmult fought with other mods' speedmults. 

 

I don't have any of the four mods you mentioned but it's absolutely possible that there are mods out there which don't like this and don't reset their own speedmult penalties after their enchantments expire (or through whichever method those mods might apply the de-/buff.)

 

Looks like this needs more testing.

Not sure if i get the point entirely of doing regular checks. If there are intervals of speed up/down, isn't that already caused by regular checks or regularly adding debuffs? Why not just add it once? I would prefer that for 2 reasons:

1. DD already is rather script heavy, no fan of adding another script running every few seconds.

2. If i have any buffs, it's because i want to have them. It's much more likey i my games to have other debuffs, but nevertheless... i chose to have them. Then i have to deal with it.

[_SpaceHamster_]

1 hour ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

@SpaceHamst3r Already thought i have much more in mind than you did.  

In this case, imho it still might be better to make a few alternative versions of different animations, but not for all items (yet). i'm not sure how thisworksand how you work, if it's a "It takes a day to makeone animation and 10 minutes to make the other items" thing rather than one day for each version i'd be wrong,, but i don't think so. So... if you don't consider it important for your training or something, i'd still rather prefer viewer animations and more variations/higher quality. Even if that means there will be only 1-2 animations in total per item. But that might also just be me. And for me they don't necessarily need to be consensual either.

Picking different animations to change also would be less work for you in the long (and possibly even short) run, i could imagine some animations are easy to fit with an armbinder but hard with breast yoke, for example. Instead of bothering with working around the clippings or stuff... might easier just to pick another one.  

Right now, it actually takes 3-5 days for a single animation + 8 hours to 2 days (if things are going very slow) to fit them to said restraints. I made 2 complete sets in 1 week right now and started working on a third set a few hours ago.

 

I'm working now with the intention of getting these added in DD, and making more variations is something I just don't feel like it would work with my workflow right now.
I would happily add more variation, but it would take much longer to make these, looking at the fact I make 2 animations per week.

The only issues with clipping I have is 3ds Max not working along and doing what I ask it to do 

In total I made 10 animations in 1 week, and even tho they are 2 base sets that look mostly identical across 5 restraints per set, I rather do that than making a total of 2 different looking animations per week.

But once I'm done with a decent amount of sets and feel like it's plenty, I'll probably start making my own animations and toss them in an SLAL pack eventually. These will have enough variation probably  

[El_Duderino]

1 hour ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Not sure if i get the point entirely of doing regular checks. If there are intervals of speed up/down, isn't that already caused by regular checks or regularly adding debuffs? Why not just add it once? I would prefer that for 2 reasons:

1. DD already is rather script heavy, no fan of adding another script running every few seconds.

2. If i have any buffs, it's because i want to have them. It's much more likey i my games to have other debuffs, but nevertheless... i chose to have them. Then i have to deal with it.

The issue with not checking (and if necessary, correcting) the speedmult while wearing the dress is that it looks absolutely horrible when the hobbled walk animation is not played with a slow-ish speedmult. Before the script change*, another mod changing speedmult while hobbled lead to situations where the player would fluctuate between the slow hobbled speedmult and a much higher speedmult every few seconds. That was very annoying and looked super silly with the ultra fast character movements that resulted during the "fast phase". When this issue was discussed here during the DD4 beta there were a surprising number of mods mentioned that altered speedmult, both as buffs and debuffs.

 

*) As far as I remember, the original script already had an OnUpdate loop in it.

[Darkpig]

With the newest dev build. Is there a reason why I can't go below 5 in the NPC's slotted option?

[Kimy]

1 hour ago, Darkpig said:

With the newest dev build. Is there a reason why I can't go below 5 in the NPC's slotted option?

I disabled values lower than 5, because NPC support really needs at least a few slots enabled. Honestly, in 2018, there shouldn't be a PC left that can't support at least 5 slots. They don't put THAT much strain on your machine.

[Darkpig]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

I disabled values lower than 5, because NPC support really needs at least a few slots enabled. Honestly, in 2018, there shouldn't be a PC left that can't support at least 5 slots. They don't put THAT much strain on your machine.

Unless you run alot of mods already and or in the middle of a big battle. The main devious device part of the mod works fine at zero and why fix what isn't broken? I won't argue that it is required for NPCs to run bound animations but something as simple as a slider isn't rocket science to the average user (Unless they are really stupid).

 

Edit: Almost forgot. Here is my rig:

[Kimy]

I keep getting a metric ton of support requests about NPCs being broken when wearing restraints that quite often boil down to them having set the slider in question to zero. The connection between that setting and NPC support not working is apparently not that obvious.

 

I didn't fix what's not broken. I did actually fix what was broken.

[Darkpig]

14 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I keep getting a metric ton of support requests about NPCs being broken when wearing restraints that quite often boil down to them having set the slider in question to zero. The connection between that setting and NPC support not working is apparently not that obvious.

 

I didn't fix what's not broken. I did actually fix what was broken.

So you fixed people? Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the default around 5? So what kind of idiot messes with sliders without reading the description?

 

I don't particularly agree this is the best solution or if there even is a solution to this problem. I think that you should just tell them to use common sense. There is a limit to pandering.

[Richard1234]

I still haven't had time to send a log, sorry. Will try tomorrow.

[oldgrumbler]

idea for DDI or DCL- make lockpicking posible while using armbinder (with tooth), BUT: taking lockpicks in teeth can be failed (chance to lose lockpick), huge debuff like -50 to lockpicking and chance to broke teeth (permanent debuff for speechcraft like -5 or -10). also posible add debuff for speechcraft while using some masks- because it's hard to hear in mask ?

[Hanshurtig11]

On 5/22/2018 at 6:15 AM, donttouchmethere said:

while wearing a Mask of Shame the PC head is still truning and if wearing and DD below it you can see it clipping thro the mask

cant remember seen that before, i blame WBR for seeing the Mask more often now^^

That problem exists since Heretical Ressources, so its nothing new.. but yes, its oddly, and the blindfoldeffect should be there, i looked .. no holes for the eyes ^^ regards

[Nazzzgul666]

On 5/22/2018 at 12:01 AM, SpaceHamst3r said:

Right now, it actually takes 3-5 days for a single animation + 8 hours to 2 days (if things are going very slow) to fit them to said restraints. I made 2 complete sets in 1 week right now and started working on a third set a few hours ago.

But once I'm done with a decent amount of sets and feel like it's plenty, I'll probably start making my own animations and toss them in an SLAL pack eventually. These will have enough variation probably  

Sounds like i got something wrong, somehow i thought you take animations from another modder (like FunnyBizness who uploaded some resources) and only made them fitting restraints. Im not sure if this even works with the resources avaivable, but maybe you could ask for the proper files if that would be an option to you, i guess it could save you some work, sparing the 3-5 days part.  

Not complaining about getting more new animations (or anything else), i just consider DD-animations more important and hope this is a useful suggestion.^^ If you wish i could ask around who would be willing to give you some raw files or whatever necessary, although i'm not on LL every day anymore, might take some time.  

[_SpaceHamster_]

35 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Sounds like i got something wrong, somehow i thought you take animations from another modder (like FunnyBizness who uploaded some resources) and only made them fitting restraints. Im not sure if this even works with the resources avaivable, but maybe you could ask for the proper files if that would be an option to you, i guess it could save you some work, sparing the 3-5 days part.  

Not complaining about getting more new animations (or anything else), i just consider DD-animations more important and hope this is a useful suggestion.^^ If you wish i could ask around who would be willing to give you some raw files or whatever necessary, although i'm not on LL every day anymore, might take some time.  

It never sprung to me to actually use existing animations and fit them to the restraints I use

As much as my main intent is to create animations from scratch, It wouldn't mind me if I got my hands on someone else's animations and edit them to fit the restraints. (assuming permissions are completely in order).

 

Right now however, I'm kind off burned out of working every single day on animations for a week, so I'm taking a break and see when I feel like starting again.

If you somehow manage to get your hands on some animations, I'm using 3ds Max and have no idea how to convert animations from other programs if they were made in it.
I'll be willing to learn how to do that though if I got the animation files lol.

[Nazzzgul666]

41 minutes ago, SpaceHamst3r said:

Right now however, I'm kind off burned out of working every single day on animations for a week, so I'm taking a break and see when I feel like starting again.

If you somehow manage to get your hands on some animations, I'm using 3ds Max and have no idea how to convert animations from other programs if they were made in it.
I'll be willing to learn how to do that though if I got the animation files lol.

Don't burn out, take your time.  I've asked FunnyBiness and SirNibbles if they have some animations to share, i'm 99% sure at least Funny uses 3ds Max either and these both seemed the most generous & active animators to me here on LL. Probably there are others, but i hope you'll get something from those two. 

[LazyBoot]

Small PSA for anyone who has been testing DD betas on the same save for a while, if your papyrus log is getting spammed with this while any character is wearing a gag.

[05/23/2018 - 11:13:17PM] ERROR: Cannot check worn items against a None keyword
stack:
	[ (00000014)].Actor.WornHasKeyword() - "<native>" Line ?
	[zadQuest (0B00F624)].zadlibs.ApplyGagEffect() - "zadLibs.psc" Line 2414
	[Active effect 40 on  (00000014)].zadGagEffect.ApplyGagEffect() - "zadGagEffect.psc" Line 45
	[Active effect 40 on  (00000014)].zadGagEffect.DoApply() - "zadGagEffect.psc" Line 30
	[Active effect 40 on  (00000014)].zadGagEffect.OnUpdate() - "zadGagEffect.psc" Line 36

Stopping and resetting the quest "zadQuest" should make that stop.

[Lozeak]

Found an issue with UpdateControls() in Zadlibs.

 

I'm guessing the main function of the this function is to disable player controls when needed but because it spams EnablePlayerControls it basically means it will mess with all mod that use DisablePlayerControls.

 

(The spamming of DisablePlayerControls I understand is 100% needed incase an external source uses EnablePlayerControls() )

 

It could be conditioned correctly so that it only enables controls when necessary.

 

Examples of the problem I've had in making content.....

 

I put player in some bondage furniture and disable player controls but player can escape when not intended because player is wearing a hobble skirt.

And when I want the player to stand still while they are being auctioned in Simple Slavery, DD will reenable controls allowing them to run round an jump about while being sold as a slave (funny to a point lol)

 

The work around I have is to spam DisablePlayerControl more than DD but you get UI flickering which isn't great.

[WaxenFigure]

3 hours ago, Lozeak said:

Found an issue with UpdateControls() in Zadlibs.

 

I'm guessing the main function of the this function is to disable player controls when needed but because it spams EnablePlayerControls it basically means it will mess with all mod that use DisablePlayerControls.

 

(The spamming of DisablePlayerControls I understand is 100% needed incase an external source uses EnablePlayerControls() )

 

It could be conditioned correctly so that it only enables controls when necessary.

 

Examples of the problem I've had in making content.....

 

I put player in some bondage furniture and disable player controls but player can escape when not intended because player is wearing a hobble skirt.

And when I want the player to stand still while they are being auctioned in Simple Slavery, DD will reenable controls allowing them to run round an jump about while being sold as a slave (funny to a point lol)

 

The work around I have is to spam DisablePlayerControl more than DD but you get UI flickering which isn't great.

 

No mod ought to be spamming either.  That's not a fix, that's just an extra fuckup.

[Lozeak]

40 minutes ago, WaxenFigure said:

 

No mod ought to be spamming either.  That's not a fix, that's just an extra fuckup.

 

Yea it's a work around not a fix, if I can find another solution I'll use that but otherwise spam away. That said I know a few mod do use Disable Player controls when a they are having a scene take place hence why I requested UpdateControls() be altered

[WaxenFigure]

2 hours ago, Lozeak said:

 

Yea it's a work around not a fix, if I can find another solution I'll use that but otherwise spam away. That said I know a few mod do use Disable Player controls when a they are having a scene take place hence why I requested UpdateControls() be altered

It would really help to have a good system for coordinating such things but as a mod it would be one of those thankless tasks and Bethesda certainly didn't think about what modders might need.