Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[El_Duderino]

On the danger of going even further off topic, here's an idea that ought to work for many to keep their anim count a lot lower and still keep all their beloved SLAL packs: remove creature anims instead. The default creature anims (FNIS Creatures + Sexlab itself) count just a few hundred and are enough to still play all mods that insist on doing creature stuff with the player (Slaverun, Whiterun Brothel, etc.). So if you're not hugely into bestiality, that might be a good alternative to approach this issue because I commonly see FNIS reports here that list well over 4,000 creature anims.

 

Just a thought & suggestion, nothing more and nothing less. If anybody wants to debate about creature sex in general, please take it to a new thread. ??

[galgat]

18 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

On the danger of going even further off topic, here's an idea that ought to work for many to keep their anim count a lot lower and still keep all their beloved SLAL packs: remove creature anims instead. The default creature anims (FNIS Creatures + Sexlab itself) count just a few hundred and are enough to still play all mods that insist on doing creature stuff with the player (Slaverun, Whiterun Brothel, etc.). So if you're not hugely into bestiality, that might be a good alternative to approach this issue because I commonly see FNIS reports here that list well over 4,000 creature anims.

 

Just a thought & suggestion, nothing more and nothing less. If anybody wants to debate about creature sex in general, please take it to a new thread. ??

   But you don't like those animation, I would Guess, I don't have a use for all of them either, but many are needed for mods, and we are all a little deviant in some respect's. Losing any of them for many of us is a problem, but I do now have to pick, and choose.  So if thing's keep going this way we may not even have enough room for sexlab..LOL ?

 

   If zaz get's bigger, and maybe another furniture mod appears, and some more animations are added to dancing, and foreplay, Weapon use, and idle's, and the list increase's, well it is a problem we will all have to face I guess. I am glad I use Mod Organizer, as it allows me and easier way at least to prune, and set up for each mod I play.  Soon perhaps we won't have to worry about conflict's with other mod's LOL, as we maybe will only be able to play one at a time.. (  LOL?, I know worst case scenario, but I always figure, "expect the worst, and you won't be disappointed" )

   Maybe someone will find a way to extend the 12000 Animation limit ?

[El_Duderino]

@galgat, yes, you've hit the nail on the head. With the abundance of SLAL packs, ever growing anims in DD and ZAP and other mods, it looks like many folks will absolutely have to make tough decisions about what they install and what they are forced to leave out. That's why I mentioned the creature anims, because I didn't see anybody mention them before, there was only talk about SLAL packs. Now ZAP and DD can't realistically be removed unless one is going for a bare-bones playthrough, so that leaves SLAL packs and creatures. I think in hindsight it was no surprise why Fore and also Ashal were so reluctant to raise the anim limits in FNIS and SL, respectively.

[galgat]

7 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

@galgat, yes, you've hit the nail on the head. With the abundance of SLAL packs, ever growing anims in DD and ZAP and other mods, it looks like many folks will absolutely have to make tough decisions about what they install and what they are forced to leave out. That's why I mentioned the creature anims, because I didn't see anybody mention them before, there was only talk about SLAL packs. Now ZAP and DD can't realistically be removed unless one is going for a bare-bones playthrough, so that leaves SLAL packs and creatures. I think in hindsight it was no surprise why Fore and also Ashal were so reluctant to raise the anim limits in FNIS and SL, respectively.

  Yeppers! Not much we can do about it, just brace for the storm, and continue as best we can.

 

  It's just a thing! but I do hope modders think about it a little, and maybe they can find better way's to reuse the same animation in some instance's. I doubt it as conditions are so different, but it might be something they will consider.

[bubba999]

Greetings, decided to do a little beta testing...

 

Downloaded DDx development and used NMM to install, letting it overide files. (If that's wrong, please tell me.)

Ran FNIS, ran Bodyslide UUNP. I think I got them all....

Loaded up a clean save and added Pet Suit via console and equipped it. Isn't it supposed to drop you down on all fours? It didn't do that. PC remained standing, wearing scraps of leather on arms and legs. Is it something a mod has to do or should it show the "on all fours" animation? Thanks.

[El_Duderino]

43 minutes ago, galgat said:

It's just a thing! but I do hope modders think about it a little, and maybe they can find better way's to reuse the same animation in some instance's. I doubt it as conditions are so different, but it might be something they will consider.

That's a nice way to get us back on topic of DD beta, as what you've said allows me to add that we think long and hard before adding a new set of Alternative Animations to DD. In the course of which we have already scrapped ideas for new arm/wrist restraints simply because they would require a new AA set but not look too all that different from our existing armbinders, yokes, chains and whatnot.

 

46 minutes ago, bubba999 said:

Downloaded DDx development and used NMM to install, letting it overide files. (If that's wrong, please tell me.)

Ran FNIS, ran Bodyslide UUNP. I think I got them all....

Loaded up a clean save and added Pet Suit via console and equipped it.

No idea about the NMM install but if override = overwrite, then that should be fine -- the beta installers always include all necessary files so another way to install would be uninstall/delete the old version and then add the new one. FNIS and then a batch build in Bodyslide sounds right, too.

 

Did you equip the item via the console too? In that case you may have grabbed the wrong one -- there are always two armors for each device, one for the inventory (which one you need to equip) and one that gets then rendered on your player but which you can't interact with in your inventory. My suggestion would be to use a mod like AddItemMenu to conjure up the devices as that will automatically give you the right version which you can then equip normally through your inventory menu.

[LazyBoot]

3 hours ago, bubba999 said:

Greetings, decided to do a little beta testing...

 

Downloaded DDx development and used NMM to install, letting it overide files. (If that's wrong, please tell me.)

Ran FNIS, ran Bodyslide UUNP. I think I got them all....

Loaded up a clean save and added Pet Suit via console and equipped it. Isn't it supposed to drop you down on all fours? It didn't do that. PC remained standing, wearing scraps of leather on arms and legs. Is it something a mod has to do or should it show the "on all fours" animation? Thanks.

Did you also remember to get the latest development DDi?

[galgat]

4 hours ago, bubba999 said:

Greetings, decided to do a little beta testing...

 

Downloaded DDx development and used NMM to install, letting it overide files. (If that's wrong, please tell me.)

Ran FNIS, ran Bodyslide UUNP. I think I got them all....

Loaded up a clean save and added Pet Suit via console and equipped it. Isn't it supposed to drop you down on all fours? It didn't do that. PC remained standing, wearing scraps of leather on arms and legs. Is it something a mod has to do or should it show the "on all fours" animation? Thanks.

  This one worked fine for me, except a few times the Player would stand up, but then drop right back down.  I am glad they finally added it, I made something similar in and .obj and posed it in Daz studio, rendering and image and remember posting it back in the old DDI testing thread ( I was hoping to get them interested in making something like it ). I was very glad to see them finally make it. it is sort of and anime Classic.  I think it is a nice addition to DDI.

 

   Anyway i know I set up a new profile, that had never had DDI on it, and downloaded, all three dev file's to be sure I had it all right, but it seems towork just fine for me anyway. ( I use UUNP, UNPB body )  " EDIT " except for the occasional pop up, and then back down event.

[special]

@Kimy

BUG REPORT (4.1 BETA)

• When you remove hobble dresses or other items that slow the Player, the Player's walk / run speed does not reset back to normal.

 

• Corsets and Harnesses Bodyslide no longer work properly for CBBE body.  Major clipping once in game.

[Jappa123]

Just now, special said:

@Kimy

BUG REPORT (4.1 BETA)

• When you remove hobble dresses or other items that slow the Player, the Player's walk / run speed does not reset back to normal.

+1 Had same problem once with 4.1 

[bubba999]

4 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

Did you also remember to get the latest development DDi?

Why no, I didn't! Ok, got to do that....

 

(i did use Additemenu to add them to inventory.)

[bubba999]

Ok, installing DDi and running FNIS fixed it! However, saving and reloading left my PC in the Pet suit on the floor but wouldn't move at all.

 

And: my follower Rayya is now strutting around like a pony even though she has no pony gear equipped or even in inventory. ?

[worik]

23 hours ago, Kimy said:

4.1 saw an increase in animation count for sure, but I don't think it's significant enough to make a stable installation collapse all out of a sudden. I can explain it only with these cases having been VERY close to breaking point already.

It was discussed a few some month ago, but I'm not sure if it came to a conclusion:

 

We have many animations which are not strictly necessary for but rather enhancing a DD lifestyle playstyle.

 

Now, let's say we devide them up into "esential ones", "enhanced ones", and maybe the "full-blown-luxury-animations". At least in the first step it would be up to the DD team to say who belongs into the right bucket.

 

If that's done, we could have an option in the installer. The player is now in the position to decide how much burden he likes to load on his Skyrim, especially in regard to his 1000's of other animations.

We could even branch the whole non-essential animations out into their own DD package (let's call it DDanimations)

 

Too late for v4.1, I guess. But maybe an idea for v4.2?

[Reesewow]

50 minutes ago, worik said:

Too late for v4.1, I guess. But maybe an idea for v4.2?

Totally up to the DD team if they want to complicate the framework by adding even more versions like lite/standard/luxury, but I personally really don't agree with this idea at all.  Based on El_Duderino's post last page about how they already keep animation load in mind when designing new items, and scrapped some item ideas because they were not unique enough to be worth adding a whole new alternate animation set, I think the DD team is already keeping in mind that Skyrim's engine has limits that shouldn't be tested needlessly.  

 

I really do think that for almost all users, the answer needs to be that you should not, and indeed cannot install almost everything (or even most of the things) at all times when it comes to SLAL packs and animation mods.  For those that really desire stability, self-imposing an "only normal FNIS" rule is probably a good start, and require choosing only favorite mods and animations in order to get back under the 10k limit.  Fore chose that limit for a reason, and we're starting to see the issues with pushing that limit to the breaking point.

 

 

Worth noting when discussing animation numbers - I believe just one SLAL pack animation for 2 actors lasting 5 stages is 10 separate animations (one per stage per actor).  That obviously gets pretty crazy when you start adding hundreds of SL animations, especially if some of them are 3/4/5 actor group animations.   By installing a lot of SLAL packs it is very easy to have many versions of "doggystle"/"missionary"/"cowgirl" which users certainly don't "need".  While I love them, I realize that I may have an excess of animations installed when I can look for animations with the tag "Cowgirl" for 2 human actors and get 50 results (at least 400 separate animation files use for 2P cowgirl related animations, and those are just the ones that actually have that tag).  This is coming from someone who hasn't yet had any CTD problems due to animation load.

 

I know I absolutely love having a huge variety of animations to pick from, but at some point we will need to decide what our favorites are so that mods like DD can continue to add truly unique animations and items.  Same goes for other heavy animation mods like FNIS Sexy Moves that add many different walk animations to the game - if you find you only ever use a handful of these animations it would probably be a good idea to consider using a female walk replacer instead of having all of the walks installed and registered at all times *on top* of the default animations.  I 100% don't think it is fair to ask a mod like DD to chop up a framework mod like this into parts so we can survive a bit longer with a huge animation load, knowing that load is likely only going to keep getting heavier as long as people are still adding stuff to Skyrim.

 

I do think that at some point it could be cool if some of the more proficient animators offered multiple themed SLAL packs however, like how Billy, Nibbles and Funnybiz's packs are presented.  That way it would be easier for people to pick and choose what animations they want from authors without it always being an all or nothing choice.

 

 

Bit of a wall-of-text, but just my viewpoint that I think us users need to make a solid effort to reform our install practices before we start asking modders to put in a large amount of effort or stunt their ideas so we don't have to make the effort of being selective ourselves.

[Guest]

Only problem is in order to meet the limits i basically have to remove all human animations or remove all creature animations its a tough decision to move on to DD4.1 but if i have to do that i will.

[galgat]

6 hours ago, bubba999 said:

Ok, installing DDi and running FNIS fixed it! However, saving and reloading left my PC in the Pet suit on the floor but wouldn't move at all.

 

And: my follower Rayya is now strutting around like a pony even though she has no pony gear equipped or even in inventory. ?

   do you have sexy moves on ?

 

if so set the walk on player, and all npc to normal for a few second's then you can reset them how you like ( you can actually set the NPC completely off.) in the sexy moves MCM

[galgat]

3 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

DD Team should not back down with what they are doing atm, just because i cant have enough SLAL Animations in my game!

 

i see it like that:

DD cant be changed because its just getting better => means something else has to go

SLAL Packs getting better and better too => but its possible to split them and make your own SLAL Pack or reduce number of SLAL packs installed (no i wont remove my creatures :P)

 

So, as i see it, there are five options:

=> make your own SLAL pack via SexLab Animation Loader Guide

=> someone has pitty and will invents a user friendly tool to modify SLAL packs before adding them to the game

=> dont install too many SLAL packs

=> reduce mods that add animations

=> self made SLAL Packs are allowed (after permission) to be uploaded to a SLAL Packs exchange Topic

 

but all those options have nothing to do with the DD development anymore

 

   I agree, I was only pointing out numbers to give player's and Idea, or maybe a little help in setting up there animation's, ( a little addition, and subtraction value's for reference ).  as I said the best choice to prune may be unfortunately the SLAL fomod installation's.

 

    It is as I said "just a thing", and we will have to deal with it in what ever way we can.  DDI is not the only one continuing to progress, and as they do they will add animation's, so will other modders.  ( Its all free, how can you argue with that ),  We will just have to do a little pick, and choosing.

 

  ( I do think a development thread would not always want Yes people in it, conflicting Idea's I would think would maybe be what was need, not so many yes, yes, yes! people, but thinker's, who look at all the angle's even the unpopular ones. )

[galgat]

54 minutes ago, Risamei said:

Only problem is in order to meet the limits i basically have to remove all human animations or remove all creature animations its a tough decision to move on to DD4.1 but if i have to do that i will.

   Some thing I did you maybe did not do, as being blond, I tend to do a lot of dumb stuff.

 

1.   I would sometime's install Example: say superAnimations_02, and then latter on install superAnimations_03, and forget to remove superAnimations_02.  I mean I doubt you did this, but as some of the author's of the SLAL had other people making the SLAL installations, I sometimes actually had some SLAL animation's installed twice, and did not realize it, because the different people making the Fomod's may have duplicated the animations in another pack.  It is tricky sometimes to be sure if this has happened, but I have ran into it.

 

2. Many of the SLAL with Fomod's give you some option's as in aggressive human animation, foreplay, male creature, female creature, masturbation, what ever, picking and choosing here will be your best way to prune I would guess.

 

3.  Mod organizer allows me to control what is installed really well, but some people do not like it. I have profiles set up with DDI3, and zaz 7, and some set up with DDI4, and zaz 8, some with no DDI at all, and some with no zaz. but the one's with zaz 8, and ddi4, I have to prune a lot of SLAL animations on to keep below the 12000 limit. But it just has to be done if I wish to use them together.

 

4. It is just a Thing and we will have to do it or not play.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, galgat said:

   Some thing I did you maybe did not do, as being blond, I tend to do a lot of dumb stuff.

 

1.   I would sometime's install Example: say superAnimations_02, and then latter on install superAnimations_03, and forget to remove superAnimations_02.  I mean I doubt you did this, but as some of the author's of the SLAL had other people making the SLAL installations, I sometimes actually had some SLAL animation's installed twice, and did not realize it, because the different people making the Fomod's may have duplicated the animations in another pack.  It is tricky sometimes to be sure if this has happened, but I have ran into it.

 

2. Many of the SLAL with Fomod's give you some option's as in aggressive human animation, foreplay, male creature, female creature, masturbation, what ever, picking and choosing here will be your best way to prune I would guess.

 

3.  Mod organizer allows me to control what is installed really well, but some people do not like it. I have profiles set up with DDI3, and zaz 7, and some set up with DDI4, and zaz 8, some with no DDI at all, and some with no zaz. but the one's with zaz 8, and ddi4, I have to prune a lot of SLAL animations on to keep below the 12000 limit. But it just has to be done if I wish to use them together.

 

4. It is just a Thing and we will have to do it or not play.

Thanks for the suggestion but atm I only have leito's pack and FB's pack and More Nasty Creatures thats it but I do have eating,sleeping and drinking which adds 796 animations so thats also not helping and with only those two SLAL packs and MNC I cant start my game so i have to get rid of one. I also use Mod Orgainzer you can see my list modlist.txt if you want i organized it

 

Didn't realize how much FB pack had in it wow these are the most heavy animation mods i have.

Eating,Sleeping,Drinking == 796
Combat Fatigue == 198

More Nasty Creatures == 848

SLAL Anub == 703

SLAL FB == 3,217

SLAL Billy == 2,617

Sexlab ==1,447

ZAZ 8+ == 1,182

DDI4.1 == 2,543

XPMSE == 190

 

 

 

[galgat]

22 minutes ago, Risamei said:

Thanks for the suggestion but atm I only have leito's pack and FB's pack and More Nasty Creatures thats it but I do have eating,sleeping and drinking which adds 796 animations so thats also not helping and with only those two SLAL packs and MNC I cant start my game so i have to get rid of one. I also use Mod Orgainzer you can see my list modlist.txt if you want i organized it

   Yeppers! I can see the animation limit is going to be a lot of choice making for you.  I run a very lean Load order,  I tend to play only one main mod at a time, sometimes if they play well enough I may add others to them, but I have found that no matter how hard they try to keep conflicts from happening, even in recommended mod's there is alway's trouble eventually.

 

   You are actually running a lot less SLAL animations than I am. I am not running as many animation using mod's as you are.  I guess this will be a real problem for people that try to run the maximum number of mod's they can, and then still try to play sex mod's.  ( For them "It is a terrible thing ?) . But not much can be done about it I guess.

[Reesewow]

44 minutes ago, Risamei said:

Thanks for the suggestion but atm I only have leito's pack and FB's pack and More Nasty Creatures thats it but I do have eating,sleeping and drinking which adds 796 animations so thats also not helping and with only those two SLAL packs and MNC I cant start my game so i have to get rid of one. I also use Mod Orgainzer you can see my list modlist.txt if you want i organized it

Since FB's "pack" is actually more like 15 packs in one with how many animations he's made that might be a big contributor depending on how many you selected on install.  I personally only use two of the smaller animation groups (Group and Femdom) and they take up a lot of animation slots even at that.  Would possibly recommend removing his pack entirely and seeing if you can run DD 4.1 then adding back your favorite groups one at a time until you have issues again, since Shashankie was awesome enough to make it so we could install specific themes.

 

Other things to possibly look at if you aren't actively using them:

 

Serial Strip 

Estrus (since you only need the animation files for Estrus Chaurus to work)

Combat mods that add new animations or alternate animations (not familiar with which ones are heavy as I don't use most of them)

Any mods from your "Animations" section that add new or alternate animations instead of simply replacing animations (again, not familiar with many of these in your list)

 

I will say your list is waaay heavier than mine in big gameplay mods, I'm impressed that you've maintained a stable game.

 

Good luck, hope you find a balance that doesn't involve nuking all your SLAL packs.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, galgat said:

   Yeppers! I can see the animation limit is going to be a lot of choice making for you.  I run a very lean Load order,  I tend to play only one main mod at a time, sometimes if they play well enough I may add others to them, but I have found that no matter how hard they try to keep conflicts from happening, even in recommended mod's there is alway's trouble eventually.

 

   You are actually running a lot less SLAL animations than I am. I am not running as many animation using mod's as you are.  I guess this will be a real problem for people that try to run the maximum number of mod's they can, and then still try to play sex mod's.  ( For them "It is a terrible thing ?) . But not much can be done about it I guess.

I like sexlab content but i also like to just play the game, so thats why i have a big load order but its all safe and runs well for me. So do you know if i can just delete hkx files to limit it? Like its shows SLAL FunnyB animation pack has 3,217 animations can i just manually delete some of the ones i don't like without causing issues? Or do i just have to delete the whole pack.

[galgat]

   

1 minute ago, Risamei said:

I like sexlab content but i also like to just play the game, so thats why i have a big load order but its all safe and runs well for me. So do you know if i can just delete hkx files to limit it? Like its shows SLAL FunnyB animation pack has 3,217 animations can i just manually delete some of the ones i don't like without causing issues? Or do i just have to delete the whole pack.

    I am not that familiar with SLAL file addition, but as I understand it each animation has .json file with it, and I believe you would also have to edit that for each animation you removed.

 

I am not up on any of that, and in that i am only guessing.  I think i looked at it once, and decided it was more trouble at the time than I wanted to mess with.

   You need some one way more knowledgeable about that to be sure, but I think one could do that. It is just I do not believe as simple as just removing the .hkx files.

 

  But I could be wrong.  Not something I have spent any time on.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Since FB's "pack" is actually more like 15 packs in one with how many animations he's made that might be a big contributor depending on how many you selected on install.  I personally only use two of the smaller animation groups (Group and Femdom) and they take up a lot of animation slots even at that.  Would possibly recommend removing his pack entirely and seeing if you can run DD 4.1 then adding back your favorite groups one at a time until you have issues again, since Shashankie was awesome enough to make it so we could install specific themes.

 

Other things to possibly look at if you aren't actively using them:

 

Serial Strip 

Estrus (since you only need the animation files for Estrus Chaurus to work)

Combat mods that add new animations or alternate animations (not familiar with which ones are heavy as I don't use most of them)

Any mods from your "Animations" section that add new or alternate animations instead of simply replacing animations (again, not familiar with many of these in your list)

 

I will say your list is waaay heavier than mine in big gameplay mods, I'm impressed that you've maintained a stable game.

 

Good luck, hope you find a balance that doesn't involve nuking all your SLAL packs.

You're right about FB's pack i didn't realize how many animations were in there until i checked so i can definitely limit some of them i want to keep some though i wonder if deleting some of them will cause issues when loading it. I just recently downloaded serial strip for Paradise Halls as i was testing it out and as for estrus chaurus i'll just get rid of those mods as i don't really care much for them anyway thanks for the suggestion but i wanna keep serial strip.

 

xD yea i managed to get it stable after alot of testing and removing things but i like it as it is right now I don't reallly add new mods just updating older ones. But i am currently at lvl 32 with all these mods installed and the only crashing that happens sometimes is when i get in dragon fights. and yea i'll figure it out somehow

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

FB SLAL Pack comes with a fomod installer

you could just reinstall it and choose the animation packs you want

I'll try that first

 

7 minutes ago, galgat said:

   

    I am not that familiar with SLAL file addition, but as I understand it each animation has .json file with it, and I believe you would also have to edit that for each animation you removed.

 

I am not up on any of that, and in that i am only guessing.  I think i looked at it once, and decided it was more trouble at the time than I wanted to mess with.

   You need some one way more knowledgeable about that to be sure, but I think one could do that. It is just I do not believe as simple as just removing the .hkx files.

 

  But I could be wrong.  Not something I have spent any time on.

I'll see if i can talk to one of the creators and see if they can help me thanks though