Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, Code Serpent said:

I just double checked. Most 4.0 items are registered, but Straitjackets and Extreme Hobble Dresses aren't.

Oh right! That must have been an oversight, then!

[FF104]

I wanted to download the latest beta, but all the versions on the github links haven't been updated since December or before. Did the links change or something?

[SleepyJim]

1 minute ago, FF104 said:

I wanted to download the latest beta, but all the versions on the github links haven't been updated since December or before. Did the links change or something?

You need to switch the branch from master to development. The image in the opening post shows how.

[FF104]

1 minute ago, SleepyJim said:

You need to switch the branch from master to development. The image in the opening post shows how.

Derp. I knew I was forgetting something. Thanks.

[DonQuiWho]

11 hours ago, Kimy said:

Oh right! That must have been an oversight, then!

When typing with your nose, whilst also wearing a blindfold, it's so easy to miss that sort of thing ?

[CaptainSlowpoke]

Got an odd issue dunno if it's intended or not. If you set a tick in the box of key removal upon unlocking devices and sucessfully escape from any device via struggle/lockpick/cut key is deleted from your inventory. Is it a bug or it's just the way key removal is coded?

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, CaptainSlowpoke said:

Got an odd issue dunno if it's intended or not. If you set a tick in the box of key removal upon unlocking devices and sucessfully escape from any device via struggle/lockpick/cut key is deleted from your inventory. Is it a bug or it's just the way key removal is coded?

I have NO clue why somebody would try to escape a restraint when they have the key for it, but you're right! The code would destroy the key.

 

Good catch! Fixed it!

[kplh]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

I have NO clue why somebody would try to escape a restraint when they have the key for it

the outcome which says something like "unable to reach the lock, you'll have to try again later" prevents you from using a key for a while, but you can still try struggle, cut or pick the lock.

[Richard1234]

21 minutes ago, kplh said:

the outcome which says something like "unable to reach the lock, you'll have to try again later" prevents you from using a key for a while, but you can still try struggle, cut or pick the lock.

Don't mention that, now Kimy will 'fix' that too!

[CheddarTrauma]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

I have NO clue why somebody would try to escape a restraint when they have the key for it, but you're right! The code would destroy the key.

If there's a chance your key will break or you might not reach the lock of course you'd attempt to escape first before taking a chance on losing what limited keys you have.

Do you even play DD ?

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, Richard1234 said:

Don't mention that, now Kimy will 'fix' that too!

>>

<<

[Dust+]

Is there any way to make impossible transform into beast form while your hands are tied up? (transform into Lord Vimpire or Werewolf)

[Musje]

I have some issues compiling scripts for my own mod after installing the Developer version, when I compile something DD-related, it will have a look at some DD scripts as well (as always). But now it comes back with an error:

Am I missing something?

 

Spoiler

 

Starting 1 compile threads for 1 files...
Compiling "phhshDevious"...
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(377,26): FNISs3ModID is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(377,38): cannot compare a none to a int (cast missing or types unrelated)
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(377,38): cannot relatively compare variables to None
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(377,65): SM360 is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(378,70): FNISs3MtBase is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(378,13): type mismatch on parameter 3 (did you forget a cast?)
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(379,71): FNISs3MtxBase is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(379,13): type mismatch on parameter 3 (did you forget a cast?)
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(382,71): FNISsmMtxBase is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(382,13): type mismatch on parameter 3 (did you forget a cast?)
No output generated for phhshDevious, compilation failed.

Batch compile of 1 files finished. 0 succeeded, 1 failed.
Failed on phhshDevious

 

 

 

[Code Serpent]

2 minutes ago, Musje said:

I have some issues compiling scripts for my own mod after installing the Developer version, when I compile something DD-related, it will have a look at some DD scripts as well (as always). But now it comes back with an error:

Am I missing something?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Starting 1 compile threads for 1 files...
Compiling "phhshDevious"...
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(377,26): FNISs3ModID is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(377,38): cannot compare a none to a int (cast missing or types unrelated)
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(377,38): cannot relatively compare variables to None
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(377,65): SM360 is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(378,70): FNISs3MtBase is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(378,13): type mismatch on parameter 3 (did you forget a cast?)
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(379,71): FNISs3MtxBase is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(379,13): type mismatch on parameter 3 (did you forget a cast?)
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(382,71): FNISsmMtxBase is not a property on script fnissmquestscript or one of its parents
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\Data\Scripts\Source\zadBoundCombatScript.psc(382,13): type mismatch on parameter 3 (did you forget a cast?)
No output generated for phhshDevious, compilation failed.

Batch compile of 1 files finished. 0 succeeded, 1 failed.
Failed on phhshDevious

 

 

 

 

I think that you need either the latest version of FNIS PCEA2 or FNIS Sexy Move.

[Kimy]

Sexy Move. DD has a soft dependency on it, to make the two mods work nicely together!

[Musje]

9 minutes ago, Code Serpent said:

I think that you need either the latest version of FNIS PCEA2 or FNIS Sexy Move.

I didn't have either mods installed, but I just copied the scripts from Sexy Move and now everything compiles. Thanks! ❤️

[Kimy]

10 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

you.. you added animations for using a key to unlock the DDs?

SWEET!

[DonQuiWho]

@Kimy

 

Very quick question, please

 

Are the MCM menus for DDi 4.0 and 4.1 identical?  If I try to update with a write over nothing seems to change that I can see, and I was wondering if that's right?

 

TIA for any help!

[Kimy]

No, they are not. 4.1 has the new difficulty settings.

[DonQuiWho]

7 minutes ago, Kimy said:

No, they are not. 4.1 has the new difficulty settings.

Thanks for that.  Very fast!

 

Have fun

[DarkWolve9]

On 5/30/2018 at 6:01 PM, SleepyJim said:

Noticed some weirdness with the pony animations and wrist restraints.

 

I equipped the pony play boots and all the animations seemed to work fine. When wearing any heavy bondage wrist restraints though, things started to go wrong. All of the following happened only when either sneaking or sprinting while wearing the boots:

 

With a yoke equipped the arms go into armbinder pose.

With a breast yoke equipped the arms go into handcuff/prisoner chain pose.

With handcuffs or prisoner chain equipped the arms are in an unbound pose.

When elbowbinder is equipped the arms go into breast yoke pose.

When armbinder is equipped the arms go into standard yoke pose.

 

All of this was using plain black leather or iron versions of the restraints. Straitjackets seemed fine, perhaps because there are no arms at all.

 

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I still drunk from last night?

No one else experienced this? It happens on my side tho?

[Kimy]

13 minutes ago, DarkWolve9 said:

No one else experienced this? It happens on my side tho?

I tested this and couldn't reproduce that bug...

[DonQuiWho]

@Kimy

 

EDIT

 

I'll leave the 'ORIGINAL QUESTION' below, just for interest on the AA volume issue, but I have since tried this out again, and I deleted EVERY SLAL pack I had except MNC, and the FNIS output reduced the total animation count, but NOT the AA count, as follows, and with that I could get the game started OK

 

First let me say that the new content is really nice, and it all seems to work fairly effortlessly.  Anything I did think twice about was so minor, it would be almost so carping, it would be embarrassing to mention!

 

So I guess it's the overall total my game didn't like, rather than problem being a specific AA issue ?   I reckon I'll just have to see what the game will actually tolerate comfortably... but losing a lot of those nice packs' contents will be a shame ?

 

I think that the trick in future will be to add the Frameworks you need, then the mods you want and what they are dependent on, and then see what SLAL packs your game can then cope with by way of anim volumes added

 

Reading DD V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 493 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD2 V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD3 V4.1.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 102 alternate animations) ...

---------------------------

All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files...
Alternate Animation mods: 8 sets: 70 total groups: 332 added file slots: 2508 alternate files: 1341

---------------------------

 5545 animations for 25 mods successfully included (character)
 957 animations for 2 mods and 38 creatures successfully included

 

Hope this is of interest, or help, to someone, anyhow

 

=======================================================================================

 

'ORIGINAL' QUESTION

 

I'm getting CTDs on load on the game I'm setting up, when updating from DD 4.0 to 4.1, after rerunning FNIS

 

I've read the current stuff in the DDi thread from fore etc, and I'll be first to admit I don't understand all the technical details ?

 

I did note tat there seems to be upper hard limits on AA sets of 128, and possibly a max of AA files at about 2000

 

My query really just relates to the reasonableness of the generated animation / file numbers, in that DD 4.1 seems to be adding more than a quarter of the new overall AA totals that I get after updating to DD 4.1 for what seems, proportionately, an otherwise much lower base number addition

 

So are the additional alternative animations emanating from the installation of 4.1, ie

 

DD; 21

DD3; 102

 

..... actually expected to generate  the very large numbers of files etc that appear in the FNIS AA output records, which amount to an extra

 

1 set
14 total groups
98 added file slots
777 alternate files

 

The bottom line question is, 'Is that really right'?

 

If that isn't 'right', maybe 4.1 needs a tweak before release?

If it is 'right', 4.1 needs to come out with some kind of 'Game Size Warning'? 

 

Thought it might be sensible to mention this before release, especially given the sheer size of the download and installation

 

 

========================

 

The numbers I got came from testing it like this:

 

 

Environment:

 

Using MO1
Using FNIS 7.4.5
All FNIS Generated Output left in MO's OVERWRITE to allow direct comparison of the MO config
Used exactly same Mods in all scenarios, and same load orders, both L/h and R/H panes, and same save(s) as base
 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

With DDi/DDe 4.0 installed

 

My FNIS output file contains

 

Reading DD V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 472 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD2 V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ...
Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ...

-----------------

All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files...
Alternate Animation mods: 7 sets: 56 total groups: 234 added file slots: 1731 alternate files: 1218

-----------------

 10657 animations for 46 mods successfully included (character)
 3523 animations for 8 mods and 43 creatures successfully included.

 

My save (call it A)  loads and the game functions OK

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

If I then update MO to DDi/DDe 4.1,

 

I can load the same save (ie A),

the game initialises the new DD mods, and the new DDi Menu appears,

Game animations continue to function as before,

I can then save that as, say, B

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

 

If I then delete the FNIS files generated above, and rerun FNIS,

my new FNIS output file is completely identical except for the DD 4.1 changes

Reading DD V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 493 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD2 V4.0.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 330 alternate animations) ...
Reading DD3 V4.1.0  ( 0 furniture, 0 offset, 0 paired, 0 kill, 0 chair, 102 alternate animations) ...
Reading DDSL V4.0.0 ...

-----------------

 All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files...
Alternate Animation mods: 8 sets: 70 total groups: 332 added file slots: 2508 alternate files: 1341

-----------------

 10874 animations for 47 mods successfully included (character)
 3523 animations for 8 mods and 43 creatures successfully included.

 

The generated files are left in the OVERWRITE

 

However on loading save B, my game then immediately CTDs on load
 

 

[Kimy]

With all these mods adding more and more animations people need to get into the habit of carefully selecting what they want, and not install each and every SLAL pack just because it's available. Most reports seems to indicate that the animation limit for most users seems to be in the 12-14k ballpark before they experience crashes.

 

Thing is that DD 4.1 didn't add THAT many compared to 4.0, but apparently a number of players had installations so close to breaking point that the 200 extra animations in 4.1 just tipped it over. But yes, in the end we're drifting towards a scenario where frameworks, mods and animation packs that would otherwise be perfectly compatible will compete for available animation slots and make the users choose which ones they really want to have. SLAL packs already compete against each other in this fashion. One day users also might have to decide between ZAP and DD. Or think hard if they really want PCEA2. In a world with finite resources, but infinite ways to use them, that's just normal.

 

As for AA, we are aware of the 128 set limit, and we will add more AA only when we really, REALLY need to do so. Right now we're at 14 sets. There are few types of restraints requiring more AA sets we haven't yet done, but rest assured that we have no plans to use up all 128 slots. Other mods need some breathing room, too.

[Pfiffy]

31 minutes ago, Kimy said:

With all these mods adding more and more animations people need to get into the habit of carefully selecting what they want, and not install each and every SLAL pack just because it's available. Most reports seems to indicate that the animation limit for most users seems to be in the 12-14k ballpark before they experience crashes.

 

Thing is that DD 4.1 didn't add THAT many compared to 4.0, but apparently a number of players had installations so close to breaking point that the 200 extra animations in 4.1 just tipped it over. But yes, in the end we're drifting towards a scenario where frameworks, mods and animation packs that would otherwise be perfectly compatible will compete for available animation slots and make the users choose which ones they really want to have. SLAL packs already compete against each other in this fashion. One day users also might have to decide between ZAP and DD. Or think hard if they really want PCEA2. In a world with finite resources, but infinite ways to use them, that's just normal.

 

As for AA, we are aware of the 128 set limit, and we will add more AA only when we really, REALLY need to do so. Right now we're at 14 sets. There are few types of restraints requiring more AA sets we haven't yet done, but rest assured that we have no plans to use up all 128 slots. Other mods need some breathing room, too.

We have reached the point, were the limits of Skyrim LE can't be pushed any further. A few small tweakings might still be possible, but there are no more big steps for mankind to expect. As it is now, mods get expanded further and further until exactly this point is reached. What was side by side starts competing. It has already started. 

 

It is always possible to add a few more features to a mod. But it is time to split them into a basic and an advanced version, so the people can chose if they really want it all or just the basics. But those basic versions usually get abandonned as soon as the new version comes out. Well: You wanted it, you got it. Fore made the XXL versions with the warnig that Adding more animations might cause instabilities and crashes. All just read 'More animations' 

Going throu the development threat, I read a lot of suggestions about things that should be added to DD... But all of this additions will cost something outside of DD. If you need DD just as dependency for some smaller mods even 4.0 is a slide case of overbombing.