Deviously Enslaved Continued [2019-11-11]

[ragnam]

I think I have another issue, I dumped the obis mods and noticed a number of NPC now show up with no heads and do not have proper fnis on them "t-posed", while other npcs are ok and working. at first I thought the headless npcs was a script obis calling to change the npcs in that cave, but even after a save game cleaning it persists.

after heavy double checking that it was not a FNIS issue.

example, doing the red guard quest, when going into the cave randomly some NPCs would work while others showed up naked in a T posed.
I grabbed the info on a few all belonging to skyrim.esp in console view.
id and then base id
00042041  0003decc
0004244a  0001e79c
0004245c 0001e79c
00042450  0001e79e
0004244c  0001e79c

tested, any one of those I would smack with my custom enslave whopping stick, and enslave the headless NPCs, after they run through the clone process they come back as the proper immersive wench or male vanilla npc with a head again, and proper fnis working on them all.
then checking thier console ids as a slave they would no belong to the immersive wench or skyrim esp.

IN tesVedit I back track it being Skyrim.esp then modified by like legendary.esp and last "Deviously Enslaved Continued.esp " tag with swindlers den area?

I just noticed this after updated to the last bug fix. not sure if your last update included and new edits you might have been working on? 

[Verstort]

36 minutes ago, ragnam said:

I think I have another issue, I dumped the obis mods and noticed a number of NPC now show up with no heads and do not have proper fnis on them "t-posed", while other npcs are ok and working. at first I thought the headless npcs was a script obis calling to change the npcs in that cave, but even after a save game cleaning it persists.

after heavy double checking that it was not a FNIS issue.

example, doing the red guard quest, when going into the cave randomly some NPCs would work while others showed up naked in a T posed.
I grabbed the info on a few all belonging to skyrim.esp in console view.
id and then base id
00042041  0003decc
0004244a  0001e79c
0004245c 0001e79c
00042450  0001e79e
0004244c  0001e79c

tested, any one of those I would smack with my custom enslave whopping stick, and enslave the headless NPCs, after they run through the clone process they come back as the proper immersive wench or male vanilla npc with a head again, and proper fnis working on them all.
then checking thier console ids as a slave they would no belong to the immersive wench or skyrim esp.

IN tesVedit I back track it being Skyrim.esp then modified by like legendary.esp and last "Deviously Enslaved Continued.esp " tag with swindlers den area?

I just noticed this after updated to the last bug fix. not sure if your last update included and new edits you might have been working on? 

None of this makes sense to me.

 

DEC doesn't have any NPCs itself, but it doesn't modify any either, at least not that I know of. It keeps a list of references to some NPCs for SD Distant enslave, but that's just an array of pointers to NPCs that already exist in the game, it shouldn't modify any NPC such that TESVEdit or Skyrim's console thinks the NPC belongs to DEC.

 

Maybe I broke something, but it's definitely not intended.

 

The whole head missing bug, I haven't got a clue how that could even happen. Is it like decapitated or is it like the head part of the model is invisible?

 

Edit: I'm 99.9% sure adding an additional faction to an NPC does NOT count that NPC as modified, but even if it did I doubt it would cause this headless glitch

[ragnam]

does not make sense to me either, does not look like the NPCs are modified just the location placement? 
or maybe because these are inside the quest and not the typical random spawns of an npc? I am not sure?

but that is where I ended up looking at which NPCs gave me the problem. that is under the cell blocks what NPCs persistent location edits? 
I might be barking up the wrong tree? 
- I will try testing that cave prior to the quest is anything is different. who knows? but I am still poking at stuff.

 

[ragnam]

in game I loaded a save prior to "in my time of need" and visited the swindlers cave, found a few NPCs headless and one with the head still on but in console view stated dec was the last esp to edit the dead bandit.

I am going to tesVedit and delete the NPC persistent edits on npcs in the cave and see if it changes anything, if not I will down load the latest copy again.

EDIT maybe solution:
ok in tesVedit under dec esp, I deleted the whole cell block 5 that edited persistent npcs that modified swindlers cave location, and tried in game and have no more headless bodies.
Maybe you take a look at that if that can be done or breaks  it? there are just a few more under cells and blocks, I dont know if I caused another problem while fixing my issue. you might know better what those cell blocks are doing while including NPCs.

 

[Verstort]

22 minutes ago, ragnam said:

in game I loaded a save prior to "in my time of need" and visited the swindlers cave, found a few NPCs headless and one with the head still on but in console view stated dec was the last esp to edit the dead bandit.

I am going to tesVedit and delete the NPC persistent edits on npcs in the cave and see if it changes anything, if not I will down load the latest copy again.

EDIT maybe solution:
ok in tesVedit under dec esp, I deleted the whole cell block 5 that edited persistent npcs that modified swindlers cave location, and tried in game and have no more headless bodies.
Maybe you take a look at that if that can be done or breaks  it? there are just a few more under cells and blocks, I dont know if I caused another problem while fixing my issue. you might know better what those cell blocks are doing while including NPCs.

Man that stuff shouldn't even be there... how the heck did that happen?

 

I'll remove all NPC modifications in cell and update, thank you for digging and finding all this for me!

[ragnam]

11 minutes ago, Verstort said:

Man that stuff shouldn't even be there... how the heck did that happen?

 

I'll remove all NPC modifications in cell and update, thank you for digging and finding all this for me!

No problem, All is good! and thanks to you also for being the owner of the mod and updating new things to it.

I figured when you said NPCs should not be modified but the cells under sub blocks and stuff did that some how, I figured kill those edits and test some leg work out. Yeah be mindful there are a few cell edits to other cells and NPCs too, I did not test those out at all.

[Verstort]

6 minutes ago, ragnam said:

No problem thanks to you also for being the owner of the mod and updating new things to it.

I figured when you said NPCs should not be modified but the cells under sub blocks and stuff did that some how, I figured kill those edits and test some leg work out. Yeah be mindful there are a few cell edits to other cells and NPCs too, I did not test those out at all.

There were a few modified NPCs under the world section too, not just cell.

 

They all look like the NPCs that are used for SD masters, but not sure why, what I have to assume was CK, decided to make copies now for some reason, most of those NPCs haven't been touched since they were added ages ago.

[llokii70]

correct this mod is not SE compatible

[Verstort]

14 hours ago, llokii70 said:

correct this mod is not SE compatible

Compatibility Unknown.

 

Previously, some users said they have converted it themselves without errors. I have not tested conversion myself, and cannot guarantee anything.

[Operand]

Question: do "Intimidate" dialog options work? Tried it with anything and it never worked (i.e. NPC was never intimidated); "anything" = modifying actor values such as speechcraftmod / sppechcraft (or even old one speechcraftpowermod), having/not having the intimidation perk etc. With 100 speech it never worked and so didn't it work with 200, 300, ... 1000 speech, "never" = tried around 30 times.

 

Asking because the description here states something might not yet work.

 

P.S. Everything else works as expected.

[HexBolt8]

24 minutes ago, Dellecross said:

Question: do "Intimidate" dialog options work?

The last time I checked, it does.  Examine your MCM settings for intimidation.  If you're unarmed or gagged you might be unable to intimidate.  Being naked or vulnerable (wearing highly restrictive devices) can also greatly reduce your chances. 

[Operand]

3 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

The last time I checked, it does.  Examine your MCM settings for intimidation.  If you're unarmed or gagged you might be unable to intimidate.  Being naked or vulnerable (wearing highly restrictive devices) can also greatly reduce your chances. 

Well... question is "how greatly" as even insane speechcraft modifier doesn't seem to matter. On the other hand, if the chance is hardcoded and isn't affected by vanilla speech system, then yes, it might be the reason - but .. rather a disappointing one as it breaks immersion (which this mod is attempting to pursue and does great if not this thing)

[Verstort]

I haven't touched intimidation requirements in a long time, but looking at the code:

 

Intimidation success is determined before the approach starts: reason? I cannot perform detailed math to determine likelihood in real time without a risk of a slowdown or a lock in the dialogue (IE CD device detection lag), so it cannot be calculated last second. If you tested by changing values after the approach starts you'll always get the same result (just in case you were doing that)

 

We roll a 100 sided dice for intimidation, where the roll has to be 1-49 (50%) to win intimidation.

 

However we skip the roll if the player is vulnerably lvl 4, you will always fail then, and we modify that roll value depending on speech/vulnerability before we check against 50.

 

Any points in speech the player has above lvl 25 remove 1 from the roll per level, so at 50 speech the roll should be deducted by 25, becomes -24-75.

 

If the player is not armed, the roll is increased by 15.

 

If the player is vulnerable lvl 2 or 3, the roll is multiplied by 2 and 3 respectively.

 

Example, assuming the player has speech 50, but they are not armed, instead they are armbound and you have armbinder at lvl 2: the starting roll is 40,  (50speech-25) = 25, (40-25) roll is now 15, but unarmed+15, roll is now 30, times 2 because of vulnerability, 60, roll failed. If speech was lvl 60, (60speech-25)=35, (40-35) roll is 5, +15 from unarmed is 20, times 2 is 40, roll succeeded.

 

Looks like I never got around to looking up that intimidation perk and adding it to the calculation, and I never added NPC confidence into the equation either.

[Operand]

"After the approach starts" - does it mean that once the mod hooked up the actor, all the calculations have already been made? (i.e. even if the actor didn't yet enforced a dialog with the player)?

 

Also I think the vulnerability level 4 might be a culprit (I think it was the case as it seems I messed up my understanding of it and have read it in reverse power order). Will test more I guess. Thanks for detailed info.

[Verstort]

1 hour ago, Dellecross said:

"After the approach starts" - does it mean that once the mod hooked up the actor, all the calculations have already been made? (i.e. even if the actor didn't yet enforced a dialog with the player)?

 

Also I think the vulnerability level 4 might be a culprit (I think it was the case as it seems I messed up my understanding of it and have read it in reverse power order). Will test more I guess. Thanks for detailed info.

Yes, I meant before the NPC starts moving, long before dialogue starts.

 

Vulnerability ranks from 0 to 4 in ascending order, where 0 is not vulnerable, and 4 is barely able to move (or at least it was before players could set it in options where 4 goes)

[shadowwolf2k7]

with DCUR 8.2 there was a whore collar added. and in 8.3 there was a new scenerio added, called working girl. any possibilities that either or both can be tied into DEC?

[Operand]

On 6/30/2019 at 3:23 AM, Verstort said:

Yes, I meant before the NPC starts moving, long before dialogue starts.

 

Vulnerability ranks from 0 to 4 in ascending order, where 0 is not vulnerable, and 4 is barely able to move (or at least it was before players could set it in options where 4 goes)

Seems to be working. One thing: I tried to connect the event of "failing the intimidation" to the horrible harassment script (the one where PC can struggle) but.. well as I'm not a modder and have seen the tool for probably second time, it... didn't work ? The most I could do is just to add a master and reference some seemingly related script, but that's it. May be you could consider that as an option? Because ... immersive immersion ? Or may be just advise me what I should do to make it working (it's understandable if you don't want to add a dependency on a different mod for this feature)

[Jappa123]

Is there any way to make dd equip work after SD sex events? Thanks! 

[Verstort]

14 hours ago, shadowwolf2k7 said:

with DCUR 8.2 there was a whore collar added. and in 8.3 there was a new scenerio added, called working girl. any possibilities that either or both can be tied into DEC?

I didn't understand how the DCUR whore system worked when I tried it, DEC was the only sex the player was getting.

 

Since I haven't explored all of the content, not sure if it would be weird for DEC to start it.

 

3 hours ago, Dellecross said:

Seems to be working. One thing: I tried to connect the event of "failing the intimidation" to the horrible harassment script (the one where PC can struggle) but.. well as I'm not a modder and have seen the tool for probably second time, it... didn't work ? The most I could do is just to add a master and reference some seemingly related script, but that's it. May be you could consider that as an option? Because ... immersive immersion ? Or may be just advise me what I should do to make it working (it's understandable if you don't want to add a dependency on a different mod for this feature)

First: Linking dialogue from one mod to another introduces a hard dependency, otherwise I would have added a "Slut! Service me!" -> "I'm a whore, pay me bitch" followed by a link to one/all the prostitution mods ages ago, since that's a very obvious compatibility problem with prostitution mods DEC has.

 

But, I'm not sure what you tried to do. DEC has a script function to handles the whole thing, I've never tried it, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to load DEC as a soft dependency in another mod and fire the function to get the effect you're looking for...

 

something like:

 

; "handwritten, untested"

Quest crdeQuest = Quest.GetQuest("crdePlayerMonitor")

if crdeQuest != NONE ; "DEC is installed, we can continue"
	; "cast last second because we need the object to be the right type to call the function"
	; " but we need to know if the quest exists as a quest first before we get this far"
	(crdeQuest as crdePlayerMonitorScript).doPlayerSex(attackerActor, rape = true)

endif

 

I haven't looked at horrible harassment, but adding DEC functionality to another mod's events sounds like a bad idea, will likely lead to the author of the other mod getting confused by confused user bug reports.

 

3 hours ago, Jappa123 said:

Is there any way to make dd equip work after SD sex events? Thanks! 

That sounds like a bad idea, introducing items mid SD session...

 

Not sure if it's possible, SD+ would need mod events that fire after each event such that DEC could catch them, they might exist already not sure.

 

[Bane Master]

2 hours ago, Verstort said:

DEC as a soft dependency in another mod and fire the function to get the effect you're looking for...

 

something like:

Unfortunately these kind of dependency calls that call external scripts can cause serious problems with conflicts between otherwise compatible mods when the 'soft' dependencies are not installed  they should be avoided.

 

Further explanation by somebody far more intelligent than me here

[Verstort]

11 minutes ago, Bane Master said:

Unfortunately these kind of dependency calls that call external scripts can cause serious problems with conflicts between otherwise compatible mods when the 'soft' dependencies are not installed  they should be avoided.

Huh? If the mod isn't installed, nothing happens because we check for that.

 

If you get crashing scripts because the engine reads ahead too far and gets confused, you can just put the code in an isolated script and no problems.

 

Edit: Oh you're talking about that weird case where two mods call the same soft dependency and both fail to work? Has that been replicated anywhere?

[Bane Master]

9 hours ago, Verstort said:

that weird case where two mods call the same soft dependency and both fail to work? Has that been replicated anywhere?

I'm afraid so - I have seen with my own mods and others (POP is one example)  and moved away from that method due to the issue. The only other option is to have your users install all the scripts for the soft dependencies but deactivate the esps this works, however that's neither"soft" nor user friendly.

 

When I initially had this issue I did come up with a method that worked but was messy as it involved putting the link into each mods external functions into  separate quests with just the script interface attached to each one - that way if they bugged out and took that quest with them it didn't break anything else in my mod. I gave up on this method because although it fixed things at my end it still crashed any other mods using those assets the same way which didn't seem very neighborly!

 

As far as I can see the only way to get a real soft dependency if you need to call script functions from an external mod is if the mod you want to use offers a ModEvent interface to those functions - hence the changes I made to EC+.

[Operand]

20 hours ago, Verstort said:

I haven't looked at horrible harassment, but adding DEC functionality to another mod's events sounds like a bad idea, will likely lead to the author of the other mod getting confused by confused user bug reports.

Eh... nope, because I would just keep it for myself and never publish it? (so then also avoid the evergoing issue with permissions and stuff).

 

And also no, what I was thinking is:

 

Currently: DEC Dialog -> "(Intimidate) Get away from me" -> fail -> immediate SL scene

I want: DEC Dialog -> "(Intimidate) Get away from me" -> fail -> SLHH scene with struggling -> whatever happens there

 

So yes, I added SLHH as a hard dependency already (i.e. as a master) but I just was unable to properly make a call from the dialog branch. Right now it does SL scene call and I tried to replace it with the SLHH scene call.

 

But anyways, thanks for the script reference - I didn't find that at all and probably the tool I'm using doesn't allow doing it (I use TESV Edit) as I was unable to find any "code" there.

[LazyBoot]

9 hours ago, Bane Master said:

18 hours ago, Verstort said:

that weird case where two mods call the same soft dependency and both fail to work? Has that been replicated anywhere?

I'm afraid so - I have seen with my own mods and others (POP is one example)  and moved away from that method due to the issue. The only other option is to have your users install all the scripts for the soft dependencies but deactivate the esps this works, however that's neither"soft" nor user friendly.

 

When I initially had this issue I did come up with a method that worked but was messy as it involved putting the link into each mods external functions into  separate quests with just the script interface attached to each one - that way if they bugged out and took that quest with them it didn't break anything else in my mod. I gave up on this method because although it fixed things at my end it still crashed any other mods using those assets the same way which didn't seem very neighborly!

 

As far as I can see the only way to get a real soft dependency if you need to call script functions from an external mod is if the mod you want to use offers a ModEvent interface to those functions - hence the changes I made to EC+.

I wonder if the same issue would show up if a GetModByName check was done first...

[Verstort]

8 hours ago, LazyBoot said:

I wonder if the same issue would show up if a GetModByName check was done first...

This isn't about detecting if a mod exists, it's about using functions from scripts that belong to other mods, specifically it's about grabbing a quest and pulling the script from that quest object. IE get quest, then convert to a type that only exists in that other mod, then call a function that only exists in that mod.

 

Besides getmodbyname, which gets slower the more mods you have, If you just want to check if a mod exists with GetFormFromFile that works fine so long as it's a default type like actor/armor/quest, although Quest.getQuest() won't print an annoying(but benign) message if it fails in the log.

 

and I know you can load variables from other mods and check against them, or all the other mods pulling DCUR's "hasBlockingKeywordsButSafeToRemove" array being loaded by all the mods checking it would have failed.

 

So if you want to call library script functions from another mod safely, I guess you need to do what DEC does for slavetats and make a special quest that just assumes the mod is installed and calls it on faith, and if it dies it takes just that isolated script with it without taking the rest of the mod down, although come to think of it, I think slavetats had to do something special for that to work, can't do that with every script..

 

Edit: oh I misread, you mean if we check if the mod exists first through the safest means, and only grab the quest after that, there might not be an issue? The way the bug presents only when two references exist for the same quest object...

 

If I had to guess it would be a bug in the way the game engine handles/passes loaded values, since papyrus doesn't let us make new references to things like armor on the fly, asking us instead to only make copies of stuff already in memory (you cannot say, make a new armor from scratch in papyrus(new Armor(slot=35,nif=/myarmormesh.nif,armorvalue=12)), as far as I know), my guess is the script attached to the quest is confusing the engine, which does not want to create duplicate references of the same unique object, in this case a unique quest, instead wanting to make instances of the object, which shouldn't exist because quests are singleton (except repeat quests, which I'm guessing only exist one at a time, being destroyed to make replacement)

 

Loading the quest as a regular quest first doesn't seem to have any issues, as multiple mods can load the same quest to just check if it's running/stage without issues. Getting a reference to that quest's script seems to be the issue, and I think that's an issue at either the moment the script is read into the engine/interpreted, or at the moment the code is executed, although it looks like the former from Monoman's test case, in which case it doesn't matter how safe we try to wrap the code since it's the engine's bug at memory allocation.