yatol Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Nope its not that you ignorant moron. Consider all of the mod authors that were given shit for the most irrelevant reasons. Their strict policies and idiotic reasoning behind everything they criticize someone for is the reason no one likes them. And no shit we still download there, you wanna go ahead list a some fucking sites with the equivalent amount of mods? Thats what I thought... you are doing the questions and answears? everything that can't be upload on nexus is upload on modgame, or modmaximus, or... if nexus was deleted, one of them would replace it it's not as good as nexus, harder to find stuff there don't know much about nexus policies, as i only download I deleted my mod from nexus that was ranked #7 because of the nexus idiots. You betcha it was in the adult categpry. don't know what is mod ranked 7 it wasn't because of the nexus idiots i have delete most of the things i had converted to victoria 4.2 from daz (they care so much about credits, i give credit to the real author, whoever he is, i care so much about that i didn't tried to find out yet) it wasn't because of those autorisation/credit blabla either, i never received any mp from the one that put v4 into skyrim, or the authors of those unp outfits (didn't know about daz at the time, so i was doing that the long and stupid way), have no idea why those ones start some shit about that don't really remember the reason, something i read from a fanboy in one of his daz conversion topic i didn't like, so nothing for them, that's all One guy making a good mod, doesn't stop 5 modders from putting their heads together to make something X5 better. This is the best modding community on the internet. if nobody want to do something, nothing will done, it's like that add ineed to my stormcloak profile, so i had a lot more of those errors i was ignoring http://www.loverslab.com/topic/46169-error-unable-to-call-gettargetactor-how-to-get-rid-of-that/ and after asking about that... it is so simple i don't understand why nobody have fix those scripts and send them to the modder for an upgrade took me less than 15 minutes to fix them (and much longer than that to find how to compile them, know nothing about ck, i never use that)
cornbreadtm Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Got this link from the Bethesda forum thread on this subject. http://imgur.com/a/bqcla?gallery You can't sell mods at that quality level. What are they? Bethesda... wait...
cornbreadtm Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 One guy making a good mod, doesn't stop 5 modders from putting their heads together to make something X5 better. This is the best modding community on the internet. if nobody want to do something, nothing will done, it's like that add ineed to my stormcloak profile, so i had a lot more of those errors i was ignoring http://www.loverslab.com/topic/46169-error-unable-to-call-gettargetactor-how-to-get-rid-of-that/ and after asking about that... it is so simple i don't understand why nobody have fix those scripts and send them to the modder for an upgrade took me less than 15 minutes to fix them (and much longer than that to find how to compile them, know nothing about ck, i never use that) Well, you just proved my point. It's not that nobody fixed the problem. YOU DID! But the thing about some modders. They don't like help. They do everything on their own and refuse help or consider any constructive criticism as flaming/trolling. Chances are someone else fixed it too (if it was as easy as you say) and sent it to them and they just ignored it or turned up their nose at it. I say we have the best modding community because we do. Note who isn't part of it rather than who is and you'll see why.
Saeros Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Got this link from the Bethesda forum thread on this subject. http://imgur.com/a/bqcla?gallery You can't sell mods at that quality level. What are they? Bethesda... wait... the quality check until today was done by the users and other modders of the comunity. everyone could be a beta tester, helping to improve something, providing feedback or more. is the strength of sharing and the base of the open-source rules. in paymod there is no quality control check.. is just a way to make easy money exploiting vulnerable and uninformed consumers.. ethically this is a crap!
Rayblue Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Got this link from the Bethesda forum thread on this subject. http://imgur.com/a/bqcla?gallery Well, damn.
DocClox Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 I seem to recall reading that Steam is going to be integrated into the Creation Kit. I'm assuming that is above and beyond the existing "upload to steam workshop" button. Has anyone seen any details on how this is going to work? I've been pretty chill about this whole debacle so far, but if all my work has to go through steam's servers for some reason then it's time to look for a new hobby. Or at least a different game to work on...
ZaZ Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Rofl , but its really funny too if you look at it .......
Setekh Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Rofl , but its really funny too if you look at it ....... lmao, good catch.
Antrox Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Nope its not that you ignorant moron. Consider all of the mod authors that were given shit for the most irrelevant reasons. Their strict policies and idiotic reasoning behind everything they criticize someone for is the reason no one likes them. And no shit we still download there, you wanna go ahead list a some fucking sites with the equivalent amount of mods? Thats what I thought... you are doing the questions and answears? everything that can't be upload on nexus is upload on modgame, or modmaximus, or... if nexus was deleted, one of them would replace it it's not as good as nexus, harder to find stuff there don't know much about nexus policies, as i only download You sound like a fucking hypocrite now as you just stated you barely know anything about nexus policy... Next time fucking think before you say, maybe you wont sound as idiotic in the process!
yatol Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Nope its not that you ignorant moron. Consider all of the mod authors that were given shit for the most irrelevant reasons. Their strict policies and idiotic reasoning behind everything they criticize someone for is the reason no one likes them. And no shit we still download there, you wanna go ahead list a some fucking sites with the equivalent amount of mods? Thats what I thought... you are doing the questions and answears? everything that can't be upload on nexus is upload on modgame, or modmaximus, or... if nexus was deleted, one of them would replace it it's not as good as nexus, harder to find stuff there don't know much about nexus policies, as i only download You sound like a fucking hypocrite now as you just stated you barely know anything about nexus policy... Next time fucking think before you say, maybe you wont sound as idiotic in the process! really? why don't you make a quote of that post where i am supposed to have stated i know nexus policy all i know i heard it here (no daz stuff or it get deleted, no sims stuff or it get deleted, and no nude pics or it get deleted, that one is funny because textures mods have nude pics, oh well, not my problem, i upload them here, not on nexus)
Guest Suited Prawns Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 People really like to hang onto that "If you were contacted by Bethesda youd do it too" well no. Someones gonna be mad that im saying this because I dont as of yet have any mods to show my support of the modding community. No, Why?, because I read the fallout 3 legal documentation a few years ago which somewhat clearly stated that Modifications even though supported by the developer are in to way to be monetized... Ever. I believe fallout NV and skyrim have shared this part. Now 7 years later because steam just realized that no one wants to buy early access shitwipes any more so they find something else to sell. With 7 years of people being banned, harrased and probably sued for trying to do this, suddenly people go:" These mod makers need to eat aswell so this is fine." Look I don't care what you do with your mod, id rather see it not released, which also saves you the trouble of keeping people from stealing it, then have it behind a paywall of which I allready know you'll get a fraction of money from. Also its not like this was a waste of time, I mean papyrus overlaps alot with other coding languages so why not develop your own game or if you make 3d models there's allot of directions to go. When you do a hobby you learn a skill. If you want to make money of that hobby apply that skill. Sometimes you dont need to make a carriere out of something.
Loogie Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 the best way is not to add a paying access, i think it's better to creating a patreon and have donations from users. I've been thinking about that for awhile. It's either try that or get a second job, which means I won't be able to mod anymore.
mellowtraumatic Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 People really like to hang onto that "If you were contacted by Bethesda youd do it too" well no. Someones gonna be mad that im saying this because I dont as of yet have any mods to show my support of the modding community. No, Why?, because I read the fallout 3 legal documentation a few years ago which somewhat clearly stated that Modifications even though supported by the developer are in to way to be monetized... Ever. I believe fallout NV and skyrim have shared this part. Now 7 years later because steam just realized that no one wants to buy early access shitwipes any more so they find something else to sell. With 7 years of people being banned, harrased and probably sued for trying to do this, suddenly people go:" These mod makers need to eat aswell so this is fine." Look I don't care what you do with your mod, id rather see it not released, which also saves you the trouble of keeping people from stealing it, then have it behind a paywall of which I allready know you'll get a fraction of money from. Also its not like this was a waste of time, I mean papyrus overlaps alot with other coding languages so why not develop your own game or if you make 3d models there's allot of directions to go. When you do a hobby you learn a skill. If you want to make money of that hobby apply that skill. Sometimes you dont need to make a carriere out of something. I feel the same way. I think I would have felt flattered that they asked but I never would have even considered saying yes. It just goes so much against why I do this in the first place. I don't even have the donation button up on Nexus, not that I begrudge any modder who chooses to or wants to get a little cash for their work.
Loogie Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 People really like to hang onto that "If you were contacted by Bethesda youd do it too" well no. Someones gonna be mad that im saying this because I dont as of yet have any mods to show my support of the modding community. No, Why?, because I read the fallout 3 legal documentation a few years ago which somewhat clearly stated that Modifications even though supported by the developer are in to way to be monetized... Ever. I believe fallout NV and skyrim have shared this part. Now 7 years later because steam just realized that no one wants to buy early access shitwipes any more so they find something else to sell. With 7 years of people being banned, harrased and probably sued for trying to do this, suddenly people go:" These mod makers need to eat aswell so this is fine." Look I don't care what you do with your mod, id rather see it not released, which also saves you the trouble of keeping people from stealing it, then have it behind a paywall of which I allready know you'll get a fraction of money from. Also its not like this was a waste of time, I mean papyrus overlaps alot with other coding languages so why not develop your own game or if you make 3d models there's allot of directions to go. When you do a hobby you learn a skill. If you want to make money of that hobby apply that skill. Sometimes you dont need to make a carriere out of something. You know that making a good mod is applying the skill you learned, right? Essentially your argument is, "People deserve compensation, but since they only get 25% of the asking price, they should get nothing to protect them." You're basically saying that, not only are you never going to support someone for hard work, you feel they should never do that work in the first place if they hope to get some sort of reward. What a modder gets in compensation from Steam is their business. Obviously modders who have put paid mods up in the Workshop are okay with the split, else they wouldn't agree to it. Modding is long, difficult work. I've sunk more time into making Tryout for NV than I actually have playing the game over the past four years. Soon I will have to stop doing that because I might need to get a second job to make ends meet. In a world where mods are paid, or I at least have the option to ask for donations, there's a possibility I could get to keep doing what I love instead of earning an additional measly $100 a week at a McDonalds or some shit. Which do you think is of more benefit to society? Someone continuing to make mods and applying the skills they've learned, or flushing the skilled labor down the toilet in favor of a retail job?
sunder02 Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 People really like to hang onto that "If you were contacted by Bethesda youd do it too" well no. Someones gonna be mad that im saying this because I dont as of yet have any mods to show my support of the modding community. No, Why?, because I read the fallout 3 legal documentation a few years ago which somewhat clearly stated that Modifications even though supported by the developer are in to way to be monetized... Ever. I believe fallout NV and skyrim have shared this part. Now 7 years later because steam just realized that no one wants to buy early access shitwipes any more so they find something else to sell. With 7 years of people being banned, harrased and probably sued for trying to do this, suddenly people go:" These mod makers need to eat aswell so this is fine." Look I don't care what you do with your mod, id rather see it not released, which also saves you the trouble of keeping people from stealing it, then have it behind a paywall of which I allready know you'll get a fraction of money from. Also its not like this was a waste of time, I mean papyrus overlaps alot with other coding languages so why not develop your own game or if you make 3d models there's allot of directions to go. When you do a hobby you learn a skill. If you want to make money of that hobby apply that skill. Sometimes you dont need to make a carriere out of something. You know that making a good mod is applying the skill you learned, right? Essentially your argument is, "People deserve compensation, but since they only get 25% of the asking price, they should get nothing to protect them." You're basically saying that, not only are you never going to support someone for hard work, you feel they should never do that work in the first place if they hope to get some sort of reward. What a modder gets in compensation from Steam is their business. Obviously modders who have put paid mods up in the Workshop are okay with the split, else they wouldn't agree to it. Modding is long, difficult work. I've sunk more time into making Tryout for NV than I actually have playing the game over the past four years. Soon I will have to stop doing that because I might need to get a second job to make ends meet. In a world where mods are paid, or I at least have the option to ask for donations, there's a possibility I could get to keep doing what I love instead of earning an additional measly $100 a week at a McDonalds or some shit. Which do you think is of more benefit to society? Someone continuing to make mods and applying the skills they've learned, or flushing the skilled labor down the toilet in favor of a retail job? I understand that for a lot of modders it would be great if they can get paid to do what they love , maybe not for a living ,but at least to justify the time spent making a mod , but a lot of the arguments I've been hearing boil down to " wouldn't you support a great mod like falskaar if it was 5 $ , wouldn't you want your favorite modders to be able to spent more time making mods ,because they can now get pay paid? ' Yes I would love to, if there was only that one mod that costs 5 $ ,but when 40 of the mods I consider to be a core part of my skyrim experience go behind a pay wall ,that's like 200 $ dog ! I cant afford that. Maybe 200$ is an exaggeration with the " pay what you want" system ,maybe 40 mod will be something like 60- 65 $, that's still a lot . I'd love to be able to help a modder grow and advance their skills, but let's not do it through a system that benefits the big Corps. allows for a very few modders to actually make any substantial money and completely fucks the user/ consumer like always.
mezzoforte Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65163/? Interesting thing going on here. A logo to put on mod pages as a public promise that their mod will be Forever Free and that it is safe to build off of as a resource. Makes me sad to think that someone will see this as a go signal to use their free mod as a resource/asset for a paid-mod on Steam :\
yatol Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65163/? Interesting thing going on here. A logo to put on mod pages as a public promise that their mod will be Forever Free and that it is safe to build off of as a resource. Makes me sad to think that someone will see this as a go signal to use their free mod as a resource/asset for a paid-mod on Steam :\ just tell him to add that line "and mods using this logo can't be used as ressource for a mod sold on steam"
mysticentity Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Forever Free's perms are fixed, as I stated in an earlier post. Also I'm a she. Asset use permission in mods/files that are being sold You are not allowed to use assets from this file in any mods/files that are being sold, for money, on Steam Workshop or other platforms Anyone who used the FF logo can make their own decision on whether they allow their mod being used in a paid for one or not. We are not here to say either way, just offer a bit of clarity and solidarity.
prideslayer Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 I'm with Loogie on this one. The attitude that 25% is somehow worse than 0%, or worse than the 0.001% that the professional DLC developers receive, is idiotic. The split is between the modder and Valve, and nobody elses business or concern. People getting bent out of shape that some mods are "worthless" because they're so "simple" are obviously wrong -- somebody paid for them. People getting bent out of shape that somebody, somewhere, might make money by doing a hobby they already enjoy are best called out as the jealous twits they apparently are. If a mod is sold on the workshop and it relies on some external mod to work (like FNIS), or used some help or documentation provided by the community, tough luck. Every piece of commercial software in the world does exactly the same thing. MS does not get a cut of every piece of software using the windows SDK, nor does the wikipedia foundation get a cut of everything written that uses the information found there. Your public library doesn't get a kickback from the commercial endeavors that use knowledge gained from the books they loan out, either. If you're so small-minded and jealous that you just can't stand the thought of someone making a little money, doing something they enjoy, because others are doing similar things for free -- you're part of the problem. A world where every modder could quit their day job to work full time on their mods sounds like a great place to me. By and large I don't expect players/users to understand or agree with most of what I've said. However, in this case, their opinions don't matter to me even slightly. This is about mods, utilities, and those that create them. All of them deserve compensation for their efforts, and few if any actually get it. Modders SHOULD understand though. We all work countless hours on this hobby and our reward is generally a few "thank yous", and endless bug reports and feature requests to sift through. If one of "us" decides "hey, it would be nice to make a couple bucks off this if I can" then I fully support that decision. Christ I don't even work on my friends computers or cars for free -- I at least expect dinner and some beer out of the deal. I won't be responding to replies or reading this thread any further. As I've already said in "private", my active projects (SexoutNG, NX, FOMM, Bodyslide) are on indefinite hiatus because of the immature and childish "community" responses to modders who chose to participate in this system. The system isn't perfect, but it's the first of it's kind, and it deserves time to get the kinks worked out. Maybe my own project licenses may be changing as a result, at least for three of them -- I don't own the copyrights for FOMM so have no authority to change the license there. Maybe I'm completely done modding or writing modding community software for free. I haven't decided yet. Thanks "community."
Loogie Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 ... but when 40 of the mods I consider to be a core part of my skyrim experience go behind a pay wall ,that's like 200 $ dog ! I cant afford that. Maybe 200$ is an exaggeration with the " pay what you want" system ,maybe 40 mod will be something like 60- 65 $, that's still a lot . I'd love to be able to help a modder grow and advance their skills, but let's not do it through a system that benefits the big Corps. allows for a very few modders to actually make any substantial money and completely fucks the user/ consumer like always. I agree with you. But I'd also say a great many mods DON'T really deserve compensation. There are plenty of things I've banged out in under half an hour that I would never charge directly for. But I also think charging directly isn't a good practice for the reason you stated. I think a donation system is more reasonable - that ensures the best mods get compensated. BUT, that is my personal opinion and the way I'd go about it if I were to. I don't hold anything against people who want to charge for a mod directly. The market will show what it's willing to pay, and if you get burned on a bad Workshop mod there is a refund option.
Dudemanguy Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 The system isn't perfect, but it's the first of it's kind, and it deserves time to get the kinks worked out. I never post here, but this statement was so ridiculous that I just had to say something even if you don't respond. Kinks? This system is a complete disaster. There is absolutely no quality control (check that earlier imgur link; it's embarrasing), no guarentee of support (what happents if a mod I buy breaks when skyrim updates?), it's trivial to steal someone else's mod and put it up for money, and it's also a legal mess (how does Disney feel about paid lightsaber mods?). If Bethsada and Valve believe that supporting modders with money will lead to better and more mods (not just trying to cash in on other people's work), then it's obvious that this system does not work at all. It's not a matter of "oh, we just have to work out the details a little bit." They need to go completely back to the drawing board and try again. That's completely ignoring the legitimate debate on whether or not flinging money around would result in better mods.
D_ManXX2 Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 With fnis concern it was not fair judgment. Valve has made it clear that if a mod require external software then modder is required to ask permission first i think with chesko i believe was not the case. So when the outburst came it was fully directed at chesko. But from my uderstanding chesko and Fore has already made there peace. Maybe it is about time Mount and blade and other such communites would Educate the community for the eldersrolls that paying for mads and free mods can actually work side by side and does not mean the end for free stuff as a matter of fact free stuff on the mount and blade community has never been so thriving. Also this will open up and attract more professional game developers to build mods for skyrim.
guk Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 @prideslayer All the facts about the problems with paid modding have been said over and over, not just in this thread but pretty much all over the internet. I'm not going to repeat any of the arguments. Now maybe you just wanted to make a "trolling" post, crapping on the table and make a run. But i'm not going to leave this unresponded: People getting bent out of shape that somebody, somewhere, might make money by doing a hobby they already enjoy are best called out as the jealous twits they apparently are. Oh so everyone who isn't okay with this is a "jealous twit"? Let's have a look then. Prideslayer, author of SexoutNG. Released in December 2013, 40 reputation points in 1.5 years. Appreciate all the work you put into that, i also used that mod for a while. My own contributions are fairly small and just presets for other people's mods, but they also cost me hundreds of hours of spare time: CBBE-YT - Released March 9th 2015, 70 reputation points in 1.5 months. S.E.F.A.P. - Released January 24th 2015, 50 reputation points in 4 months. So if i'm generous, i will say that we are talking at eye level here. I also COULD use your own words and call you (quote) a "jealous twit". But i'm not doing that, because i actually have respect for everybody on this forum. Which apparently can't be said about you. God complex much?
Exar Kun Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 With fnis concern it was not fair judgment. Valve has made it clear that if a mod require external software then modder is required to ask permission first i think with chesko i believe was not the case. So when the outburst came it was fully directed at chesko. But from my uderstanding chesko and Fore has already made there peace. Maybe it is about time Mount and blade and other such communites would Educate the community for the eldersrolls that paying for mads and free mods can actually work side by side and does not mean the end for free stuff as a matter of fact free stuff on the mount and blade community has never been so thriving. Also this will open up and attract more professional game developers to build mods for skyrim. Honestly anyone that has a sane mind wouldn't and shouldn't make a mod thats too good and release it on steam workshop for cash, ever here of Halowars? that game used to be a mod, until the modders were shut-down by microsoft and they started making the "official" game. There have been modders that have been able to go on and get hired to make their own game like garry's mod but it seems like steam is making it so they can remove the middle-man and hope to have free IPs just rain down on them, same with Bethesda. Quality mods for cash may appear on the workshop in time but any hope the modder has for the future already has 1 foot in the grave. and to be honest all this discussion on the argument here is like an echo-chamber, not many else will see, at least throw the grief up on the bethesda forums (don't bother doing it on the steam forums, some of those threads seem to vanish)
Starless Aeon Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 This could be worth looking at http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65204/?And there, for a moment I thought this could be substitution for SkyUI.
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