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Paid mods for skyrim.

Guest Suited Prawns

By Guest Suited Prawns,
in Skyrim General Discussion

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zaira

zaira

Posted
Posted

 

A "no paying for mods" protest sign mod has 4000+ subscribers already, mind... http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=431467621&searchtext=

In other news, from FNIS

 

Licensing/Legal

 

The FNIS Behavior can only be downloaded and used in the described way. Without my express permission you are NOT ALLOWED

  • to upload FNIS Behavior TO ANY OTHER SITE
  • to distribute FNIS Behavior as part of another mod
  • to distribute modified versions of FNIS Behavior
  • to make money with files which are part of FNIS Behavior, or which are created with the help of FNIS Behavior

 

 

Nice to see - but I doubt that fore will really enforce his rights in case of copyright infringements.

I think, FNIS is (like SKSE) the result of reverse engineering and no court will accept such products as a base for legal claims.

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pinky6225

pinky6225

Posted
Posted

On a side note.

 

The Skyrim store page is being carpet bombed with negative reviews. The game's positive review percentage has dropped from 98% to 90%.

 

Yes its the keyboard warriors out in force

 

 

other than invalidating the review scores and thus making the game review worthless i don't quite understand what they hope to achieve as its like saying a book you previously liked is now shit due to the authors other works

 

Edit: was assuming that the score wasn't already worthless but after thinking about the last time i looked on one their was about 50% of posts saying something like "i dont think its this good/bad but i gave it this score as this person gave it a low/high score that is unfair" so i suppose all their really doing is wasting some time

 

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sunder02

sunder02

Posted
Posted

A lot of mods do not exist in a vacuum , where you can choose to vote with your wallet and not buy them , I get that some modders feel that after spending a 1000 hours on a mod they deserve to be compensated for their hard work, but what of all the free mods build upon it ? Take something like SkyUI and all the mods built around it that are free , if that thing goes behind a 5 $ pay wall suddenly 20- 30 mods, people enjoy in their game get invalidated and that's those modders time and effort gated off. I've been watching a lot of youtube videos of people saying that " It MIGHT be a good thing and it MIGHT bring a lot of new talent " yeah and Jurassic park MIGHT be a good family resort , but it always turns out the same way doesn't it . When has a desperate AAA developer and publisher joined up with a monopolistic distribution platform for the good of the consumer and not themselves. Paid mods is just some next level BS , why try to sell us a shit 2.50$ horse armor dlc when they can just leave us to do it to ourselves and get all the profit with non of the headache. :-/ 

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Nergui

Nergui

Posted
Posted

Ultimately, this whole fiasco may have damaged Bethesda's reputation which could impact future sales. Personally, I'm less excited about the prospect of Fallout 4 now than I was a week ago.

 

Edit - On another side note, it seems Darkone and Nexus have become somewhat redeemed because "they aren't steam workshop".

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Vanhal

Vanhal

Posted
Posted

Ultimately, this whole fiasco may have damaged Bethesda's reputation which could impact future sales. Personally, I'm less excited about the prospect of Fallout 4 now than I was a week ago.

 

Edit - On another side note, it seems Darkone and Nexus have become somewhat redeemed because "they aren't steam workshop".

 

When the Black Death is rampaging, no one cares for common cold...

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Benmc20

Benmc20

Posted
Posted

 

A "no paying for mods" protest sign mod has 4000+ subscribers already, mind... http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=431467621&searchtext=

 

In other news, from FNIS

 

Licensing/Legal

 

The FNIS Behavior can only be downloaded and used in the described way. Without my express permission you are NOT ALLOWED

  • to upload FNIS Behavior TO ANY OTHER SITE
  • to distribute FNIS Behavior as part of another mod
  • to distribute modified versions of FNIS Behavior
  • to make money with files which are part of FNIS Behavior, or which are created with the help of FNIS Behavior
 

So this is a very good thing. That means no advanced mods with animations can be created for steam. now we need the same for SKSE and see how steam workshop will crumble.

 

Does anyone know if HDT has the same Licensing ??

 

Good thing to read (at least a good news).

 

I've just read (very partially) this : http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12459/?(actually the entire news and the latest comments). IMO, darkone is pathetic on his tries to "play the white king". As for Valve and Zenimax (Bethesda mother company), there is only the "paycheck" that means to him (read carefully his news when he talk about some revenues directly from Valve). I hope other great modders like SKSE and HDT will follow the actual decision of FNIS. It will be fun ...

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taro8

taro8

Posted
Posted

You know what I realized? The modder pay mechanics may be even worse then it appears. From what I understand modder only gets the $100 every time mod earns $400. So he dosent get money for each download, but for hitting "milestones".

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Starless Aeon

Starless Aeon

Posted
Posted

 

And after reading that, sorry to hear that you have no spine. Not buying mods has absolutely zero effect because you're not doing purchases that you never meant to do anyway.

 

But comparing people with suicide bombers because they actually DO have a spine and actively boycott Steam and write negative reviews, that is just incredibly low and speaks of your ignorance and hypocrisy.

Usually i'm a very mature and friendly person, though in this case i'll make an exception and give you a big fat FUCK YOU before putting you on ignore.

 

Have a nice life.

 

 

Have no spine? Because I don't consider giving negative reviews to Skyrim? Well, I wanted a game, I paid the game, and that's what I received for my money. If enough people refused buying mods on SWS the effects on SWS would be significant.

As for comparing people to suicide bombers, well, no. I was making a point about how "cause justify the means" premise is pretty much dumb, and being dumb doesn't mean someone has a spine, it just means that someone is dumb. No more, no less.

I don't know what type of person you are, but from this one thing I can tell you are incapable of mature discussion, which is fine. I have no problem with you personally, so I won't put you on ignore just because I disagree with you. Cheers! :)

 

 

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Quisling

Quisling

Posted
Posted

So out of curiosity why is it when the mobile app stores from apple/google launched it was a huge opportunity for small/indie developers to make a bit of cash yet this is being seen as the greatest evil in the world

 

It wasn't universally welcomed; there were dissenting voices then too, particularly with Google's Valve-like no-support model. Now, of course, they're having to spend money clearing out the shit they allowed through. Apple's exclusive model was another point of contention.

 

But the biggest difference is probably that there wasn't an existing (largely) free system that they co-opted to build theirs. Bethesda/Valve literally hit up the most popular mods on Nexus to ask them to make exclusive versions for money.

 

Nice to see - but I doubt that fore will really enforce his rights in case of copyright infringements.

I think, FNIS is (like SKSE) the result of reverse engineering and no court will accept such products as a base for legal claims.

 

 

https://www.eff.org/issues/coders/reverse-engineering-faq#faq6

 

I doubt it would be worth the cost to go to court though.

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Kimy

Kimy

Posted
Posted

 

So out of curiosity why is it when the mobile app stores from apple/google launched it was a huge opportunity for small/indie developers to make a bit of cash yet this is being seen as the greatest evil in the world

 

 

 

The Google store isn't evil at all, only the Apple one is. Google permits installing software from other sources, Apple allows installing software only from their own store and thus censors what kind of software developers can write. The latter business model is obviously pure evil.

 

To translate it to modding - as long as I can publish my mods wherever I want to and people can download and install mods from wherever theyI want to, I won't have the slightest problem with Steam Workshop. If one day they make it so that mods can be downloaded ONLY from SWS, now that will be pure evil.

 

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guk

guk

Posted
Posted

What is obvious is that the big youtubers all argue along the same lines: "Don't you think modders deserve money for their work?"

That's the same moral blackmailing rhetoric that doorstep brigades use to force your consent to buy stuff that you otherwise wouldn't buy: "Don't you want to help disabled people? Becuase if you want to help, you have to buy that set of clothbrushes I have to sell - they were entirely made by disabled people!". Exactly the same rhetoric, with the same intellectual dishonesty. I didn't expect that from some of the bigger youtubers, but here we go.

 

 

Of course creative people who make gaming content do deserve payment! Round up some likeminded people with skills in areas required for making games, do a kickstarter fund and make a game. Or apply at a game developer. But don't just jump a train that first and foremost supports foul cash grabbers like Valve and Bethesda.

 

What modders do is using a game and its assets to create content or - especially when it comes to Betatesta, ehm, Bethesda - fix bugs. Which may result in people donating, which also happened in the past. Doesn't seem enough for some.

 

Nowadays you can monetize any crap and call it a job - at least for a while. You can ring some unknown person up and sell crap to him and all it "Call Center Agent". You can sell snake oil and call it anti aging lotion. You can film yourself being yourself, put that on Youtube and get money. Be a fake, be ridiculous, loud and dishonest, participate in any dumb hype and get money. Come up with some total crap game in unfinished state and call it "Early Access", charging people to test the crap. Anything goes. Until the hype dies and another cash grab comes up.

 

But don't expect anybody else to swallow this bullshit and applaud.

 

 

You Sir have won the thread.

 

The blackmailing comparison, to appeal at the compassion and guilt of the users, that's a very refreshing point that i haven't heard yet. Fully agreed.

 

 

Indeed, most of the modders who are selling mods have been clear they're complete jerks. I don't care if saying it gets me in trouble because it needs to be known. The Midas Magic guy is delusional. He seems to have deleted most of his comments from the steam page, but he actually thinks it's cool that he added pop ups in the game that tell you to buy his mod. the SkyUI team are just complete jerks and what makes them worse is that they don't seem delusional and know exactly what they're doing. The way they talk down to everyone is absurd. It's sort of a sociopathic arrogance they have. Who knew the creators of the most popular skyrim mod would turn out this way.

 

Seriously, if any modders want money, they need only to ask. Especially now if it avoids the alternative of paywalled mods.

Yep the authors of SkyUI are suffering from megalomania.

The only reason why it is the #1 mod for Skyrim, is that every other modder gladly accepted its MCM platform instead of writing something like that from scratch for each mod.

 

Now if SkyUI would have been on a payshop since Skyrim launch, nobody would have cared about it. If it was just about the UI improvements, then there would be a dozen of clones which do exactly the same or better.

This is the best example about "not having to reinvent the wheel" due to the (previous) open source nature of modding.

 

Now they'll practically leech money off every other mod that was made for MCM useage.

 

 

The laughable thing is all the mods that are on steam behind a pay wall have been pirated so you can get them for free.

The only problem is that Loverslab is dedicated to anti-piracy just like every other reputable website that doesn't want to get shut down.

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trpd

trpd

Posted
Posted

What a can worms it is... much to say about it...

I would open up with stating that they are delusional - mods are popular because they are free. Many downloads are there just because people wanna give it a shot. So far the quesions are only "do i like it"  and "can i run it (conflicts etc)". When you need to pay for it another one appears : "is it worth it?" . 

Going further one can ask himself - is there another mod that does this?. So far there was no need for cloned mods, if mod is good and updated there is no reason to compete with it. But when price tag is included suddenly there is incentive to for other moders to do their mods with similar functionality.

 

@workshop - is it even good for moding? (i don't imagine ). What about DRM ? will future moding risk further conflict issues to have some kind of copy protection?

 

@dependencies, permissions and mod stealing - They are not gonna bother with it right? as long mod author claims it is his and there is no major copyright being stolen they won't care. So if you are modder whose work in some way got monetized your are out of luck unless you wanna go to court against valve....

 

Finally i'm not against paid mods. It would be great if modders could legitimately be rewarded for their work. It would surely result with more quality mods. But at 25% for author and 75% valve/bethesda it is just blunt cash grab (do they need to cover up for ESO loses?) and no modder respecting his work should agree to it. (and if they do because they are pressured for money it just further enforces fact that they are abusing the weak). So even if there would be mod worth paying for you shouldn't buy it.

25% of something is better then nothing - must turn against Valve because if they get 75% of nothing they will surely reconsider better split.

 

Obviously there is more to it :

-encouraged donation/patronage system would be much better

-impact on modding - we will get more mods that do same thing and as result more conflicts and incompatibilities.

-are mods worth it? if you consider there are trade offs to have game easily moddable - won't game without such support be just better?

-support for mods - how much support are modders entitled to provide for their mod?

...more

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guk

guk

Posted
Posted

Nothing will change, the world will continue to rotate, people will still mod games while some will want money and some do it for free, like everything else in this world.

I have bad news for you:

 

Yesterday on reddit, Dark0ne from Nexus asked Gabe Newell in public if he can assure that mods will never be DRM locked to the Steam Workshop.

Gabe's answer was random jibberjabber:

"Exclusivity is a bad idea for everyone. It's basically a financial leveraging strategy that creates short term market distortion and long term crying."

Basically a random reply that the users want to hear, without any actual denial.

 

So if you translate this into real language, leaving the denial out means that he AT LEAST leaves this option open for the future.

But usually this means that it is already part of the business plan.

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aqqh

aqqh

Posted
Posted

 

Yesterday on reddit, Dark0ne from Nexus asked Gabe Newell in public if he can assure that mods will never be DRM locked to the Steam Workshop.

Gabe's answer was random jibberjabber:

"Exclusivity is a bad idea for everyone. It's basically a financial leveraging strategy that creates short term market distortion and long term crying."

Basically a random reply that the users want to hear, without any actual denial.

 

So if you translate this into real language, leaving the denial out means that he AT LEAST leaves this option open for the future.

But usually this means that it is already part of the business plan.

 

It actually is a denial.

 

I read it as - making mods exclusive to steam workshop may increase our income in short term but in long term players hatred would burn us to the ground.

 

Man - dev would never give you a straight answer. 2 weeks ago we asked bethesda guy about their plans for editors for FO4 and TES6 and he didnt even give us a straight answer would it even be possible to mod these games at all.

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Starless Aeon

Starless Aeon

Posted
Posted

 

It actually is a denial.

 

I read it as - making mods exclusive to steam workshop may increase our income in short term but in long term players hatred would burn us to the ground.

 

 

He could have answered with simple, straight forward yes or no. So it's open to interpretation.

 

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