Paid mods for skyrim.

[bjornk]

Bethesda finally weighs in. 

 

http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

Full of shit.

[blueballbob]

I'd much rather support modders with a Patreon option on Nexus and LL than 'buy' a mod off of Steamworks. At least then I'd know my money is going to the Modder and not to Valve.

[dobmc]

 

 

 

Why is everyone talking about stopping modding and not using the Nexus and what not?

 

You should be modding more!

 

Make more free mods.

 

Make better versions of paywall mods.

 

One guy making a good mod, doesn't stop 5 modders from putting their heads together to make something X5 better.

 

This is the best modding community on the internet.

 

We make mostly adult mods because no one else does, not because we can't make anything different.

 

Come on pull your shit together!

I like the enthusiasm here but this thread is like:

 

 

There's like, nothing to pull together here lol

 

 

 

 

 

It just sounded better than "shut the fuck up"...

Just saying. Also, have you seen the shit happening in Konami right now?

 

What a great year this is going to be.

[Starless Aeon]

@jacques00 I agree with some points. This will not kill free mods. If anything this whole disaster could potentially make the community stronger.

 

A word or two about paid mods and authors who decided to try their luck there. They are aware of the cuts Valve and Bethesda are taking, and they agreed to 25%. Now, there are very few, and i mean really tiny number of mods that could potentially charge few bucks and generate some money. Those are huge mods with bunch of new assets, quest lines, voice acting and stuff like that. While the mod itself could earn some money, after Valve and Bethesda take their cut author and a whole team of people behind the mod will have to split 25%. So how much money could they earn for hundreds if not thousands of hours of work?

But authors took another road it seems. They agreed to be ripped off by Bethesda (in the first place), and Valve. And now authors are trying to basically rob their customers. They agreed to this terms and this business model. I mean, look at the prices. 16 mods (most of which are shitty) for 25$?! There are companies selling their entire games for that price. Games they made from scratch! Not using existing tools and assets! And the authors think they can make up their shitty deal with Valve/Bethesda by ripping people off?

And some other thing, Bethesda, after 3+ years finally remembered there is such thing as modding community. How convenient. After their debacle with ESO... But what I think (fear) they are doing now is testing the market. It's better for them to test now if they can implement this paid mods model through SWS, then once they start selling their next game. So if this turns to be a success they could do it from day 1 for their next game. This is speculation, I know, but I really wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Hayleyrose2323]

Only ones killing mods are the ones who are leaving lol

[Starless Aeon]

Bethesda finally weighs in. 

 

http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

 

They should have tried carrier in politics. Such sweethearts.   Fucking hypocrites...

[guk]

Bethesda finally weighs in. 

 

http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

 

Can anyone copypaste the content? I only get the localized german version of their blog in my browser, which doesn't have anything beyond the "free" weekend info.

[Naked Ekans]

 

Bethesda finally weighs in. 

 

http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

 

Can anyone copypaste the content? I only get the localized german version of their blog in my browser, which doesn't have anything beyond the "free" weekend info.

 

 

Here you go:

 

 

We believe mod developers are just that: developers. We love that Valve has given new choice to the community in how they reward them, and want to pass that choice along to our players. We are listening and will make changes as necessary.

 

We have a long history with modding, dating back to 2002 with The Elder Scrolls Construction Set. It’s our belief that our games become something much more with the promise of making it your own. Even if you never try a mod, the idea you could do anything is at the core of our game experiences. Over the years we have met much resistance to the time and attention we put into making our games heavily moddable. The time and costs involved, plus the legal hurdles, haven’t made it easy. Modding is one of the reasons Oblivion was re-rated from T to M, costing us millions of dollars. While others in the industry went away from it, we pushed more toward it.

 

We are always looking for new ways to expand modding. Our friends at Valve share many of the same beliefs in mods and created the Steam Workshop with us in 2012 for Skyrim, making it easier than ever to search and download mods. Along with Skyrim Nexus and other sites, our players have many great ways to get mods.

 

Despite all that, it’s still too small in our eyes. Only 8% of the Skyrim audience has ever used a mod. Less than 1% has ever made one.

 

In our early discussions regarding Workshop with Valve, they presented data showing the effect paid user content has had on their games, their players, and their modders. All of it hugely positive. They showed, quite clearly, that allowing content creators to make money increased the quality and choice that players had. They asked if we would consider doing the same.

 

This was in 2012 and we had many questions, but only one demand. It had to be open, not curated like the current models. At every step along the way with mods, we have had many opportunities to step in and control things, and decided not to. We wanted to let our players decide what is good, bad, right, and wrong. We will not pass judgment on what they do. We’re even careful about highlighting a modder on this blog for that very reason.

 

Three years later and Valve has finally solved the technical and legal hurdles to make such a thing possible, and they should be celebrated for it. It wasn’t easy. They are not forcing us, or any other game, to do it. They are opening a powerful new choice for everyone.

 

We believe most mods should be free. But we also believe our community wants to reward the very best creators, and that they deserve to be rewarded. We believe the best should be paid for their work and treated like the game developers they are. But again, we don’t think it’s right for us to decide who those creators are or what they create.

 

We also don’t think we should tell the developer what to charge. That is their decision, and it’s up to the players to decide if that is a good value. We’ve been down similar paths with our own work, and much of this gives us déjà vu from when we made the first DLC: Horse Armor. Horse Armor gave us a start into something new, and it led to us giving better and better value to our players with DLC like Shivering Isles, Point Lookout, Dragonborn and more. We hope modders will do the same.

 

Opening up a market like this is full of problems. They are all the same problems every software developer faces (support, theft, etc.), and the solutions are the same. Valve has done a great job addressing those, but there will be new ones, and we’re confident those will get solved over time also. If the system shows that it needs curation, we’ll consider it, but we believe that should be a last resort.

 

There are certainly other ways of supporting modders, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn’t replace another, and we want the choice to be the community’s. Yet, in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop then he made in all the years he asked for donations.

 

Revenue Sharing

 

Many have questioned the split of the revenue, and we agree this is where it gets debatable. We’re not suggesting it’s perfect, but we can tell you how it was arrived at.

 

First Valve gets 30%. This is standard across all digital distributions services and we think Valve deserves this. No debate for us there.

 

The remaining is split 25% to the modder and 45% to us. We ultimately decide this percentage, not Valve.

 

Is this the right split? There are valid arguments for it being more, less, or the same. It is the current industry standard, having been successful in both paid and free games. After much consultation and research with Valve, we decided it’s the best place to start.

 

This is not some money grabbing scheme by us. Even this weekend, when Skyrim was free for all, mod sales represented less than 1% of our Steam revenue.

 

The percentage conversation is about assigning value in a business relationship. How do we value an open IP license? The active player base and built in audience? The extra years making the game open and developing tools? The original game that gets modded? Even now, at 25% and early sales data, we’re looking at some modders making more money than the studio members whose content is being edited.

 

We also look outside at how open IP licenses work, with things like Amazon’s Kindle Worlds, where you can publish fan fiction and get about 15-25%, but that’s only an IP license, no content or tools.

 

The 25% cut has been operating on Steam successfully for years, and it’s currently our best data point. More games are coming to Paid Mods on Steam soon, and many will be at 25%, and many won’t. We’ll figure out over time what feels right for us and our community. If it needs to change, we’ll change it.

 

The Larger Issue of the Gaming Community and Modding

 

This is where we are listening, and concerned, the most. Despite seeming to sit outside the community, we are part of it. It is who we are. We don’t come to work, leave and then ‘turn off’. We completely understand the potential long-term implications allowing paid mods could mean. We think most of them are good. Some of them are not good. Some of them could hurt what we have spent so long building. We have just as much invested in it as our players.

 

Some are concerned that this whole thing is leading to a world where mods are tied to one system, DRM’d and not allowed to be freely accessed. That is the exact opposite of what we stand for. Not only do we want more mods, easier to access, we’re anti-DRM as far as we can be. Most people don’t know, but our very own Skyrim DLC has zero DRM. We shipped Oblivion with no DRM because we didn’t like how it affected the game.

 

There are things we can control, and things we can’t. Our belief still stands that our community knows best, and they will decide how modding should work. We think it’s important to offer choice where there hasn’t been before.

 

We will do whatever we need to do to keep our community and our games as healthy as possible. We hope you will do the same.

 

Bethesda Game Studios

 

[D_ManXX2]

 

Bethesda finally weighs in. 

 

http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

 

Can anyone copypaste the content? I only get the localized german version of their blog in my browser, which doesn't have anything beyond the "free" weekend info.

 

 

Sure here you go:

 

 

Why we’re trying paid Skyrim mods on Steam

We believe mod developers are just that: developers. We love that Valve has given new choice to the community in how they reward them, and want to pass that choice along to our players. We are listening and will make changes as necessary.

We have a long history with modding, dating back to 2002 with The Elder Scrolls Construction Set. It’s our belief that our games become something much more with the promise of making it your own. Even if you never try a mod, the idea you could do anything is at the core of our game experiences. Over the years we have met much resistance to the time and attention we put into making our games heavily moddable. The time and costs involved, plus the legal hurdles, haven’t made it easy. Modding is one of the reasons Oblivion was re-rated from T to M, costing us millions of dollars. While others in the industry went away from it, we pushed more toward it.

We are always looking for new ways to expand modding. Our friends at Valve share many of the same beliefs in mods and created the Steam Workshop with us in 2012 for Skyrim, making it easier than ever to search and download mods. Along with Skyrim Nexus and other sites, our players have many great ways to get mods.

Despite all that, it’s still too small in our eyes. Only 8% of the Skyrim audience has ever used a mod. Less than 1% has ever made one.

In our early discussions regarding Workshop with Valve, they presented data showing the effect paid user content has had on their games, their players, and their modders. All of it hugely positive. They showed, quite clearly, that allowing content creators to make money increased the quality and choice that players had. They asked if we would consider doing the same.

This was in 2012 and we had many questions, but only one demand. It had to be open, not curated like the current models. At every step along the way with mods, we have had many opportunities to step in and control things, and decided not to. We wanted to let our players decide what is good, bad, right, and wrong. We will not pass judgment on what they do. We’re even careful about highlighting a modder on this blog for that very reason.

Three years later and Valve has finally solved the technical and legal hurdles to make such a thing possible, and they should be celebrated for it. It wasn’t easy. They are not forcing us, or any other game, to do it. They are opening a powerful new choice for everyone.

We believe most mods should be free. But we also believe our community wants to reward the very best creators, and that they deserve to be rewarded. We believe the best should be paid for their work and treated like the game developers they are. But again, we don’t think it’s right for us to decide who those creators are or what they create.

We also don’t think we should tell the developer what to charge. That is their decision, and it’s up to the players to decide if that is a good value. We’ve been down similar paths with our own work, and much of this gives us déjà vu from when we made the first DLC: Horse Armor. Horse Armor gave us a start into something new, and it led to us giving better and better value to our players with DLC like Shivering Isles, Point Lookout, Dragonborn and more. We hope modders will do the same.

Opening up a market like this is full of problems. They are all the same problems every software developer faces (support, theft, etc.), and the solutions are the same. Valve has done a great job addressing those, but there will be new ones, and we’re confident those will get solved over time also. If the system shows that it needs curation, we’ll consider it, but we believe that should be a last resort.

There are certainly other ways of supporting modders, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn’t replace another, and we want the choice to be the community’s. Yet, in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop than he made in all the years he asked for donations.

Revenue Sharing

Many have questioned the split of the revenue, and we agree this is where it gets debatable. We’re not suggesting it’s perfect, but we can tell you how it was arrived at.

First Valve gets 30%. This is standard across all digital distributions services and we think Valve deserves this. No debate for us there.

The remaining is split 25% to the modder and 45% to us. We ultimately decide this percentage, not Valve.

Is this the right split? There are valid arguments for it being more, less, or the same. It is the current industry standard, having been successful in both paid and free games. After much consultation and research with Valve, we decided it’s the best place to start.

This is not some money grabbing scheme by us. Even this weekend, when Skyrim was free for all, mod sales represented less than 1% of our Steam revenue.

The percentage conversation is about assigning value in a business relationship. How do we value an open IP license? The active player base and built in audience? The extra years making the game open and developing tools? The original game that gets modded? Even now, at 25% and early sales data, we’re looking at some modders making more money than the studio members whose content is being edited.

We also look outside at how open IP licenses work, with things like Amazon’s Kindle Worlds, where you can publish fan fiction and get about 15-25%, but that’s only an IP license, no content or tools.

The 25% cut has been operating on Steam successfully for years, and it’s currently our best data point. More games are coming to Paid Mods on Steam soon, and many will be at 25%, and many won’t. We’ll figure out over time what feels right for us and our community. If it needs to change, we’ll change it.

The Larger Issue of the Gaming Community and Modding

This is where we are listening, and concerned, the most. Despite seeming to sit outside the community, we are part of it. It is who we are. We don’t come to work, leave and then ‘turn off’. We completely understand the potential long-term implications allowing paid mods could mean. We think most of them are good. Some of them are not good. Some of them could hurt what we have spent so long building. We have just as much invested in it as our players.

Some are concerned that this whole thing is leading to a world where mods are tied to one system, DRM’d and not allowed to be freely accessed. That is the exact opposite of what we stand for. Not only do we want more mods, easier to access, we’re anti-DRM as far as we can be. Most people don’t know, but our very own Skyrim DLC has zero DRM. We shipped Oblivion with no DRM because we didn’t like how it affected the game.

There are things we can control, and things we can’t. Our belief still stands that our community knows best, and they will decide how modding should work. We think it’s important to offer choice where there hasn’t been before.

We will do whatever we need to do to keep our community and our games as healthy as possible. We hope you will do the same.

Bethesda Game Studios

 

Posted on Monday, April 27, 2015by bethesdagamestudios in Bethesda Game Studios, Modding, Skyrim, Skyrim Workshop, Steam | Tagged Bethesdsa Game Studios, Modding, Skyrim, Workshop | 1 Comment

Reader Comments

1. ladyonthemoon said on Monday, April 27, 2015 at 6:28 pm :

   From your article: “We believe most mods should be free. But we also believe our community wants to reward the very best creators, and that they deserve to be rewarded. …”

   We do not need you to wave money at our face; a simple and genuine “thank you” is as good reward as can be.

   Reply

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[Quisling]

Dunno if they're bugged again, but I can't browse any of the paid mods on the Workshop right now.

[cornbreadtm]

Bethesda seriously thinks that them getting 45% is okay... to play a mod in the first place they make money cause Skyrim isn't a free to play game....

 

 

Revenue Sharing

Many have questioned the split of the revenue, and we agree this is where it gets debatable. We’re not suggesting it’s perfect, but we can tell you how it was arrived at.

First Valve gets 30%. This is standard across all digital distributions services and we think Valve deserves this. No debate for us there.

The remaining is split 25% to the modder and 45% to us. We ultimately decide this percentage, not Valve.

Is this the right split? There are valid arguments for it being more, less, or the same. It is the current industry standard, having been successful in both paid and free games. After much consultation and research with Valve, we decided it’s the best place to start.

This is not some money grabbing scheme by us. Even this weekend, when Skyrim was free for all, mod sales represented less than 1% of our Steam revenue.

The percentage conversation is about assigning value in a business relationship. How do we value an open IP license? The active player base and built in audience? The extra years making the game open and developing tools? The original game that gets modded? Even now, at 25% and early sales data, we’re looking at some modders making more money than the studio members whose content is being edited.

We also look outside at how open IP licenses work, with things like Amazon’s Kindle Worlds, where you can publish fan fiction and get about 15-25%, but that’s only an IP license, no content or tools.

The 25% cut has been operating on Steam successfully for years, and it’s currently our best data point. More games are coming to Paid Mods on Steam soon, and many will be at 25%, and many won’t. We’ll figure out over time what feels right for us and our community. If it needs to change, we’ll change it.

 

 

 

[Trollirious]

Bethesda finally weighs in. 

 

http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

if they knew this implementation was going to be a sucess, why didn't they officially tell us about it ahead of time? Why did they put this in place to begin with behind our backs? Why did they tell a group of modders to create an update of their mod and place that update on paywall?

 

I don't believe anything in that statement.

 

"We will do whatever we need to do to keep our community and our games as healthy as possible. We hope you will do the same."

 

^ they probably haven't noticed the explosion going on, on the steam community in the comments, on other mod communities or the other forums and game sites that part of this retaliation against the tyranny of this pathetic act Beth and Valve have done...

[guk]

Thanks @D_ManXX2 and Naked Ekans for reposting.

 

Despite all that, it’s still too small in our eyes. Only 8% of the Skyrim audience has ever used a mod.

Well that's hilarious, the 8% of Skyrim players to ever use a mod must be based on the number of Skyrim owners vs. Steam Workshop users? Nobody with a clue about modding is using the workshop anyway.

Or maybe if you count the people who just played vanilla to level 20-30 and bought the next game, instead of using mods to get a properly working and customized game.

 

They are all the same problems every software developer faces (support, theft, etc.), and the solutions are the same. Valve has done a great job addressing those,

Right. Valve is doing a great job to address the support and theft problems on the workshop.

Great. Job.

 

Modding is one of the reasons Oblivion was re-rated from T to M, costing us millions of dollars.

Fair point that they're taking financial risks with all the modding.

But to me it's a bit of an equivalency to what the financial industry is doing - privatization of earnings, socialization of losses.

 

Basically we are supposed to pay for their huge mistake they made with TESO.

Skyrim in turn was a huge goldmine for them, they haven't lifted a finger for that game which is still in an early beta stage 3.5 years after release.

Now they expect us to fill their pockets for something that we not only have already paid for, but even filled with life and attracted manyfold more new customers for them.

[cornbreadtm]

I just dropped this on their page like Mjolnir.

 

"45%?

How are your console Skyrim sales doing? Cause your PC sales are doing great. Why? Because of mods. You made a AAA game just like every other company who makes AAA games. You made it in 2011. I wonder how many other companies still have an IP from 2011, still being consistently played without the original developer putting out updates/ patches on it.

You are literally profiting off of modders. Then you turn around and do something good and offer them a chance to make a living off of your product. Knowing good and well that's current and future success if because of them. Then you ruin the gesture by placing a 45% tax on all of their sales?

What are you currently or planning in the future to do to earn that 45%?"

[mellowtraumatic]

OMG, it's over. Valve folded and took them all down. 

 

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

[jacques00]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

 

There is your answer.

[guk]

https://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

 

There is your answer.

OMG, it's over. Valve folded and took them all down. 

 

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

Holy shit, so this is like a cheap soap where everybody is hugging at the happy end?

 

Well seems like all the sweat and protest over this was worth it.

 

 

We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount.

(...)

We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing.

Funny because i literally proposed and suggested these 2 points on the Nexus.

 

 

Hopefully not just a hoax by some hackers.

[cornbreadtm]

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

 

 

Fuck you Bethesda!

[Quisling]

Bethesda finally weighs in. 

 

http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

 

Update: After discussion with Valve, and listening to our community, paid mods are being removed from Steam Workshop. Even though we had the best intentions, the feedback has been clear – this is not a feature you want. Your support means everything to us, and we hear you.

[cornbreadtm]

Valve isn't going to risk it's reputation for just 1 IP.

 

[Trollirious]

OMG, it's over. Valve folded and took them all down. 

 

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

 

 

Never EVER mess with our army AGAIN! paying mods my ass

[cornbreadtm]

Valve should add a donate what you want button and ask people who bought mods if they'd rather donate to them instead of receiving a refund of (lol) steam credit.

 

Because Fuck Bethesda.

 

That's my new saying.

 

Should put it on a shirt.

[Starless Aeon]

It seems we won?!!! I... I can't believe it! We truly are Dragonborn! LOL

[Trollirious]

Valve should add a donate what you want button and ask people who bought mods if they'd rather donate to them instead of receiving a refund of (lol) steam credit.

 

Because Fuck Bethesda.

 

That's my new saying.

 

Should put it on a shirt.

 

ill buy that lol