yatol Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 This could be worth looking at http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65204/? And there, for a moment I thought this could be substitution for SkyUI. that's skyui... with other colors
ahriman87 Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 For me it's clear, i wil not paid, that all, i always get free mod from the moment when i begin to play to skyrim, then it's not now i'm gonna paid for something that don't even be tested or i'm not sure this thing gonna put a mess in my game ( random incompatibilities with other mod for exemple).
Starless Aeon Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 This could be worth looking at http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65204/? And there, for a moment I thought this could be substitution for SkyUI. that's skyui... with other colors Yep, I went trough the text again, requirements = SkyUI... I should have noticed that right away.
Uno Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 I reported that file, is the same glass-ui here at loverslab, even the schemes color -and its order in the description- are the same for god's sake.
Brontis Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 I don't like the idea of paid for mods because I don't want to have to pay for them. Every time I find a mod that I like and add it to my mod list it is like Christmas. I don't really give a damn about all of the phony moralistic bull about how modders shouldn't get paid for their hobbies or how Steam is taking advantage of modding community or any of the other hypocritical pseudo justifications that people use to attempt to make their position on the issue sound ethically superior to the paid mod supporters. If I have to pay $5.00 for a mod that is $5.00 that was in my pocket and that is now in someone else's pocket. I want my mods for free. I also want my video games for free and while I am at it, why don't you throw in a free Ferrari. I want to be able to sell my mods. I want to sell my mods because I like money. Yeh, I know that I have been making mods for free prior to this and that any 101 course in human motivation will testify to the fact that I would not have been spending all of that time making mods if there wasn't some kind of payoff for me. I now have an alternative to ego gratification, celebrity or whatever other motivation that drove me to spend so much of my time making mods and that is money. I'm willing to let Steam profit off of the process because I don't know how or don't have the resources to promote and sell my own material. I also accept the pay for mod model because I know that the donation model doesn't get you squat and that most people who are so passionately promoting it now, never donated a single dime previously. I want to sell other people's mods. I am a businessman. I don't give a rats ass about "destroying the modding community" or promoting and selling shoddy products. I operate in what is called "The Free Market System". I know that regardless of how much complaining is going on by those people represented in paragraph one most of those same people are going to purchase mods from my store. I watched how many thousands of even mediocre mods were produced for games like Skyrim and I recognized a market and an opportunity. I also have a proven track record in providing products for which I give little if any support and yet I still reap in huge profits from the sale of those products. How do I get away with that? Because when you get down to it, no matter how shoddy the products or services the public still buys what I have to sell. Most of the $5.00 that was in their pockets is now in my pockets and they may whine and cry about it but they will be back for more tomorrow.
Starless Aeon Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Tho I'm trying to look at whole situation as realistically as possible, I can't help but laugh when I see that SWS crap. So yea, some modders decided they should charge people for their mods. Fine. inevitably some (extremely stupid) people will buy those mods. So let's look at their prices.Debut pack bundle = 22,37€ or around 25$. What you can get in that pack is few overpowered weapons and armors (with mostly crappy models and textures, and almost completely out of place in the world and lore of Skyrim), and bunch of overpowered spells (you get tired of in about 10 minutes, and have no value unless you're playing as mage). Furthermore you get something that's essentially a house mod, and two mods from Isoku, one is purely cosmetic (well it does change routine of NPCs a little), the other adds need for sleep, food and water (so, very little to your base game). Total of 16 mods (at least 16 esp files that may be incompatible with each other or other mods, and game breaking) for 25$.Dragonborn DLC = 20$. What you get in that DLC is dozens of hours of gameplay, new landmass to explore, whole bunch of new quests, new models, new textures, new enemies and followers, new spells, weapons, shouts (single esm file)...So you should pay 25$ 16 items that add ZERO value to your gameplay? In my mind those mods together are worth 0.25$ at best. And even that is too much considering most of the items are not nearly well done to be charged AT ALL!Sorry modders, but if you want to charge 20$ for your mods you better make a mod that is comparable to Dragonborn DLC. In every way.Isoku's Wet & Cold = 4,59€ or 5$. For that price you get several new models and textures (not the best ones), few cosmetic changes, a small change in NPC behavior, and that's it more or less.Midas Magic Gold Edition = 5,49€ ~ 6$. For that price you get a bunch of lore unfriendly, non immersive spells you get tired of fast, and unless you are playing spell caster you have absolutely no use of.What I would consider to be a fair bargain for 5$ looking at the game market would be: SkyUI + Frostfall + RND (or iNeed) + SkyRe (or PerMa) + Wet & Cold + several cosmetic mods for weather and lighting modifications, and throw in few weapons, armors... So something that has real effect on your game. And they all must be absolutely compatible and with zero bugs if possible, and fit the world of Skyrim seamlessly.That is reality guys. It doesn't matter how many hours someone spent making their mod. What matters is value for money.That's what I personally consider to be a fair price. With that being said, I will never even consider buying mods from SWS, and I will think twice before buying another Bethesda game. And sorry for the long post but I felt like someone should address the issue of prices as yet another reason for not buying mods. I reported that file, is the same glass-ui here at loverslab, even the schemes color -and its order in the description- are the same for god's sake. Haven't tried glass-UI, that's why I thought it's something new.
dobmc Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Why is everyone talking about stopping modding and not using the Nexus and what not? You should be modding more! Make more free mods. Make better versions of paywall mods. One guy making a good mod, doesn't stop 5 modders from putting their heads together to make something X5 better. This is the best modding community on the internet. We make mostly adult mods because no one else does, not because we can't make anything different. Come on pull your shit together! I like the enthusiasm here but this thread is like: There's like, nothing to pull together here lol
Gameplayer Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Tho I'm trying to look at whole situation as realistically as possible, I can't help but laugh when I see that SWS crap. So yea, some modders decided they should charge people for their mods. Fine. inevitably some (extremely stupid) people will buy those mods. So let's look at their prices. Debut pack bundle = 22,37€ or around 25$. What you can get in that pack is few overpowered weapons and armors (with mostly crappy models and textures, and almost completely out of place in the world and lore of Skyrim), and bunch of overpowered spells (you get tired of in about 10 minutes, and have no value unless you're playing as mage). Furthermore you get something that's essentially a house mod, and two mods from Isoku, one is purely cosmetic (well it does change routine of NPCs a little), the other adds need for sleep, food and water (so, very little to your base game). Total of 16 mods (at least 16 esp files that may be incompatible with each other or other mods, and game breaking) for 25$. Dragonborn DLC = 20$. What you get in that DLC is dozens of hours of gameplay, new landmass to explore, whole bunch of new quests, new models, new textures, new enemies and followers, new spells, weapons, shouts (single esm file)... So you should pay 25$ 16 items that add ZERO value to your gameplay? In my mind those mods together are worth 0.25$ at best. And even that is too much considering most of the items are not nearly well done to be charged AT ALL! Sorry modders, but if you want to charge 20$ for your mods you better make a mod that is comparable to Dragonborn DLC. In every way. Isoku's Wet & Cold = 4,59€ or 5$. For that price you get several new models and textures (not the best ones), few cosmetic changes, a small change in NPC behavior, and that's it more or less. Midas Magic Gold Edition = 5,49€ ~ 6$. For that price you get a bunch of lore unfriendly, non immersive spells you get tired of fast, and unless you are playing spell caster you have absolutely no use of. What I would consider to be a fair bargain for 5$ looking at the game market would be: SkyUI + Frostfall + RND (or iNeed) + SkyRe (or PerMa) + Wet & Cold + several cosmetic mods for weather and lighting modifications, and throw in few weapons, armors... So something that has real effect on your game. And they all must be absolutely compatible and with zero bugs if possible, and fit the world of Skyrim seamlessly. That is reality guys. It doesn't matter how many hours someone spent making their mod. What matters is value for money. That's what I personally consider to be a fair price. With that being said, I will never even consider buying mods from SWS, and I will think twice before buying another Bethesda game. And sorry for the long post but I felt like someone should address the issue of prices as yet another reason for not buying mods. I reported that file, is the same glass-ui here at loverslab, even the schemes color -and its order in the description- are the same for god's sake. Haven't tried glass-UI, that's why I thought it's something new. Seems like a fair enough take on it. Though I'm sorry I just gotta say it again, once you go paywall. Your assets have to be procured under the understanding that they will be packaged into a paid mod. Many of the applications we use as modders have explicit legal instructions that the final product cannot be sold. Almost all free 3D model maker programs, all trail, and student versions contain some sort of documentation on this. Most if not all applications that myself and others have used to make a fresh mod have some sort of legal documentation that will contain a clause that should be observed by its end-user. Selling a mod on SWS is clearly a sale and should have legal ramifications as a result for the parties involved. I cannot believe this is not the central argument to be found. Simply put, mods that create real true value for the end-user are all suspect of how were they created. We cannot ignore this and to think that these organizations that produce software applications will ignore it well that's up to chance isn't it?
azerty852 Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 If they wanted money why not port Skyrim to ps4/X one ? I am sure console players would buy anything shiny without using their brains.
...0... Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Paying for MODS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqL26BD-c3Q
Benmc20 Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 What does Sky UI 5.0 offers that should convince me to pay for it? I honestly only upgraded Sky UI whenever a new mod told me to. New crafting menus allegedly. I lived 900 hours of Skyrim gameplay without their crafting menus. Gonna need a lot more than that. agree Me too.
TreeSaint Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 This will kill modding. The industry is trying to change the inspiration to greed and make a percentage. A gaming model that allows modding from the public lives long and they want to profit.
Dudemanguy Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 If they wanted money why not port Skyrim to ps4/X one ? I am sure console players would buy anything shiny without using their brains. Think about it. Skyrim was released in 2011, and yet it is still one of the most top-played games on steam after all these years. Why? Everyone knows the answer: mods. So you have a ton of people sitting on a game they paid for years ago constantly getting new content for free. This doesn't generate revenue for game publishers, so they naturally want a piece of the action. From a purely business standpoint, this move is brilliant. Barring extreme circustamnces (like everyone boycotting Valve and Bethesda), they'll benefit in some way whether it is harming the modding community (which has already happened) so people are more likely to actually buy new games or just by leeching off of other people's work without lifting a finger.
...0... Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 HILARIOUS... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0&list=RDNszI8b9bevM&index=2
Benmc20 Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 I reported that file, is the same glass-ui here at loverslab, even the schemes color -and its order in the description- are the same for god's sake.Haha : the bait has worked ! It is obviously a troll and a rather good one indeed. Made me laugh.
yatol Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Me too. skyui crafting menu is a big fail went back to that if you want to craft 10 leather, you don't have to -click on the pelt -move your mouse on yes and click -move your mouse on the pelt and click -move your mouse on yes and click -etc etc yes, there's the e button... click click click click click vs e click e click e click e click e click, with that you now need 2 fingers to craft would have probably taken less time, and be more usefull, to add something to that yes if you have enought materials to craft more than one thing, after clicking on yes, another menu where you can click on 1, 5, 10, 50, 100 or all
cornbreadtm Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Why is everyone talking about stopping modding and not using the Nexus and what not? You should be modding more! Make more free mods. Make better versions of paywall mods. One guy making a good mod, doesn't stop 5 modders from putting their heads together to make something X5 better. This is the best modding community on the internet. We make mostly adult mods because no one else does, not because we can't make anything different. Come on pull your shit together! I like the enthusiasm here but this thread is like: There's like, nothing to pull together here lol It just sounded better than "shut the fuck up"... Me too. skyui crafting menu is a big fail went back to that if you want to craft 10 leather, you don't have to -click on the pelt -move your mouse on yes and click -move your mouse on the pelt and click -move your mouse on yes and click -etc etc yes, there's the e button... click click click click click vs e click e click e click e click e click, with that you now need 2 fingers to craft would have probably taken less time, and be more usefull, to add something to that yes if you have enought materials to craft more than one thing, after clicking on yes, another menu where you can click on 1, 5, 10, 50, 100 or all Complete crafting overhaul allows you to craft multiples of items. Everything has been done before as they say.
Guest Jezzy Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 IMHO, alienating the community in this way will translate into opportunities for other studios salivating at the immensity of the sea of players addicted to modding. Sandbox games are getting much more mainstream so I can't wait to see how studios such as Avalange Studio or CD Projekt Red will react to this.
Trollirious Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Crafting overhaul my ass i can do that by default if that way better with some browsing! Nice try SkyUI
darkshot64 Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 I'm not exactly against paying for mods. The Just Cause 2 multiplayer mod was pretty great. I'd pay for that. And it seems pretty fair for content creators to be paid for their work if they choose. HOWEVER, I don't like how this was implemented at all. Poor Skyrim with it's already established modding community has been torn asunder by all this with major dependencies and popluar mods suddenly being put behind paywalls, mod content being stolen or misused by both sides, it's chaos, at least for now. I also don't feel that Skyrim was the best medium to implement this because modding Skyrim is a fragile and tedious process, there's a lot of things that could go wrong and it isn't exactly something that can simply be priced. It might have been better for Valve to try this with a new game, that way there isn't all these conflicts and we can see if the prospect can draw in content creators. There's also the future ramifications of this new system. A lot of bad things might come from this, surely more bad than good. But we'll have to see. I just want Skyrim to be left alone.
jacques00 Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 This will kill modding. No, it will not. Modding will not die unless you and everyone else in the same mindset lets it die. Do you want modding to die? If you don't want modding to die, don't let it die. I don't see any issue with letting both free and paid mods coexists. The industry is trying to change the inspiration to greed and make a percentage. Not really. This is what is called an opportunity--they are not retroactively forcing mods to be paid-for content (though please correct me if I am wrong). They are giving mod authors an outlet to gain a financial profit off of their mods. Profit and earnings are not a bad thing, especially if it is another potential source of income. How they go about splitting those funds... well that's another issue entirely. But the fact of making money is not evil at all. Profit is not equivalent to excessive and abusive greed. Also keep in mind that this is one opportunity out of many. There are far better business models the author or team of modders can choose from and Steam Workshop is not the end-all be-all. A gaming model that allows modding from the public lives long and they want to profit. Do you not want a new moddable game? Do you not want easier-to-use mod tools for modders and content-creators? These will come about in increasing number if there is an interest for them. The companies, whose heads cannot see consumer faces or consumer words but only sales numbers and statistical spreadsheets, will make them at their own expense if they see it as a worthwhile investment. If the numbers do not correlate, well, expect more non-moddable, DRM-laden games that will forever follow the cookie-cutter formula because it's what YOU want, right? Bethesda sees this and knows this now (if they already haven't in the past). That is why they want to strike the iron while it's hot, though in doing so, they've tripped over their own feet and branded themselves for it, taking part of the Steam Workshop with them. Valve and Bethesda is doing nothing ethically, lawfully, or morally wrong here. Now I'm hoping their business model will improve over time to where the hosts, devs, modders, and customers can come to a consensus and all will benefit. But none of that will ever happen if all people do is paint a line on the floor, take sides and complain. I see one of three outcomes for this: The workshop model will crash and burn and no one will care; the model will do sub-par, people will forget about complaining about it anymore, and it will just do what it does without interruption; or the model will gradually change as more people are involved and have a say in the matter, where it may change from sale-based to donation-based, or a combination of the two, only creating a better system, assuming it works out for all parties involved. Sure, boycott if you want to, that is your choice. But if you want things to get better, sometimes you need to work with what you have and push for what is best. You don't have to participate, but for those who do participate and want an improved Workshop experience, it is up to them to make it happen. If you want everyone to profit, then strengthen the community with your contribution. Write mail to the hosts and devs, encourage modders to come out with better quality work that is worth paying for, and most importantly, guide fellow consumers to spend their money wisely (be it through donation or buying from a marketplace). Only then will a community grow stronger and become well informed. No one is the enemy here, and no one is going to die. Let's not turn knee-jerk reactions into problems where no problems exist. If you don't like it, don't like it; but don't spread the word of hopelessness and discourage people out there who might actually want to have the best of both worlds and try to strive for it (namely the content creators/modders). Protest if you want, but your words mean nothing if you don't put a little elbow grease behind them and give them value worth listening to.
bjornk Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 For all these years modders have been enjoying making mods and sharing them free of charge, until this thing came along. Now some of them are telling us how hard they have been working on their mods and how much they need monetary compensation to continue their work. What the fuck? Has anyone been holding a gun to your head to force you make mods? Probably not, as modding has always been a voluntary activity and you knew you'd never get paid. If you have been in this for money though, why have you continued to work to this day without getting any payment? You've obviously been getting something back, which has stopped you from quitting for all this time. Whatever that was, now that there's a market for mods, suddenly it's not enough? Or maybe you have been trying to build a reputation in the community so that when the time comes you can start charging money for your mods, which may be a common practice, but despicable nonetheless.
mellowtraumatic Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 Bethesda finally weighs in. http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/
yatol Posted April 27, 2015 Posted April 27, 2015 The industry is trying to change the inspiration to greed and make a percentage. Not really. This is what is called an opportunity--they are not retroactively forcing mods to be paid-for content (though please correct me if I am wrong). They are giving mod authors an outlet to gain a financial profit off of their mods. Profit and earnings are not a bad thing, especially if it is another potential source of income. How they go about splitting those funds... well that's another issue entirely. But the fact of making money is not evil at all. Profit is not equivalent to excessive and abusive greed. Also keep in mind that this is one opportunity out of many. There are far better business models the author or team of modders can choose from and Steam Workshop is not the end-all be-all. ridiculous modders get nothing until they have make 100$ they only get 25% -> they get nothing until they have sell for 400$ of mods don't know if those 100$ are 100$, or 100 $ of steam products, it's written somewhere or it's a surprise? the one that is making $$$ is steam you can't sell a mod if there's something in it you don't have the autorisation to sell -> many will remove nice stuff from their mod to be able to sell them, the one that made wet&cold did that (and there was some things he forgot, he don't even know what he can keep) ->many won't give a shit and put the mod on sell like that, if nobody say anything there's no problem, some will sold other mods too ->the ones that see things from their mod on sale won't like it, many will take down their mods to avoid that, they are already doing it ->if the ones that put some mods on sale don't make $$ with them, they will stop trying ->if the customer don't know about it he can't buy it, anything can be sold, even if your mod is so good some may buy it, few will see it in the mass of crap
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