Trapped in Rubber (updated 2015-08-02)

[greyspammer]

Hnnnng what if you try to beat her in a fight to escape but she'll always be more powerful?

Humilation and forceful submission. Yes please.

Combat currently not included.

 

There are way too many balancing mods, difficulty settings and weapon and spells additions/modification for me to have any hope of finding a way to make the Mistress always win. And I'm terrible at balancing to begin with.

 

And like I said: Even if you could defeat her, what would you have gained? You would still be trapped inside the suit. You know it and she knows it. You cannot force her to release you because the magic of the suit is designed to prevent exactly that (she says so right at the start). And physically, you're not locked in at the Tower. You can leave at any time. The Mistress will not stop you. She knows you have to come back to get out of the suit.

 

She's put you in a situation where violence is no suitable form of escape, regardless of who wins and who loses. The only way out is compliance. To chase that rabbit hole down to the very end.

 

The Mistress doesn't rule through brute force anyway. The controls people with the sheer strength of her will and subtle manipulation. She thinks that violence is inelegant and clumsy. She will use it as a tool when she has to but she prefers other means. She is more the spider-in-the-web type, patiently waiting for her prey to come to her.

[Nixea]

 

If that question is about TIR: You are not physically trapped in the Tower. Destroying it and everybody in it wouldn't do you any good. Even you could kill the Mistress the only result would be that you killed the only person who can remove the rubber suit you are trapped in. Then you'd be forced to wear the rubber forever. Which could get uncomfortable.

 

Besides, the Mistress is a powerful mage and centuries old. She can handle a Dragonborn.

 

 

 

I would suggest against pointing out that she's more powerful than the dragonborn, because I think that would make her a "cheap" villain and there would need to be an explanation on why she wasn't the one trying to defeat the dragons, as everything that is important to her relies on the fact that Nirn is a location that currently exists, and it wouldn't if it was up to Alduin. Just rely on the fact that the dragonborn (or not, depending on who each person roleplays) needs her alive, their power matching or not being completely irrelevant in this situation.

[greyspammer]

I would suggest against pointing out that she's more powerful than the dragonborn

I make no reference to the Dragonborn at all. And don't plan on doing so either. Because there are people out there who use mods that disable that aspect of the game or make it optional. They don't want to get slapped in the face with this whole chosen-one theme and just play an ordinary person.

 

And since I don't need the Dragonborn stuff for my narrative, I see no reason why I shouldn't accomodate them.

[Farmthat]

How's debugging going?  Pretty smooth?

[Thermius]

 

I make no reference to the Dragonborn at all. And don't plan on doing so either. Because there are people out there who use mods that disable that aspect of the game or make it optional. They don't want to get slapped in the face with this whole chosen-one theme and just play an ordinary person.

 

And since I don't need the Dragonborn stuff for my narrative, I see no reason why I shouldn't accommodate them.

 

Within the narrative you've established I don't really see her as a villain. You take away your own freedom when you put on the suit to begin with. She's willing to accept you as a replacement for her lost servant on good faith alone...

Tbh, after playing a sub the entire story, I'd like the option to just choose the sub path after completing 'chapter 1 (the mod as-it-is)'. Having that choice take away the rebellious dialog choices would add to my immersion from that point on.

 

I haven't played a rebellious character yet, but I suspect I'd still work towards release and then find a way to escape...

That said, it did feel like the biggest obstacle, between me and freedom, by the end was the guard, holding the door shut, and not the Mistress.

[greyspammer]

How's debugging going? Pretty smooth?

Well... I wouldn't say smooth. It's Skyrim we're talking about. But so far I somehow managed to get a handle on every issue that came up. Let's hope it stays this way. My free time is still a bit limited, however.

 

Within the narrative you've established I don't really see her as a villain.

She's not meant to be. I don't want a good vs. evil story with heroes and villains. I try to give each character a plausible and personal motivation. And the story emerges from the conflict between these. Even Justiciar Enaron (the main antagonist in the story expansion) is not a completely bad guy. He has his reasons and if you put yourself in his shoes, you can understand why he does what he does. Same with the Mistress. However, her plans are more intricate and difficult to discern. But she does care about her slaves and will protect them from outside harm.

 

At least, that's what I'm trying to do. A mod with no real bad guys, just different agendas clashing.

[ZofaSoldier]

 

At least, that's what I'm trying to do. A mod with no real bad guys, just different agendas clashing.

 

 

The civil war part of Skyrim also did not have any "bad guys", just two factions that both had their valid reasons for what they are doing.

 

Ulfric Stormcloak believed that he was freeing Skyrim from oppression (even thou he was at least partially manipulated into this opinion by the Thalmor).

 

The Empire was trying to keep itself together so that it would not get divided, weakened and then destroyed by the Thalmor.

 

No true villains here, just two different agendas clashing

[Kimy]

 

 

At least, that's what I'm trying to do. A mod with no real bad guys, just different agendas clashing.

 

 

The civil war part of Skyrim also did not have any "bad guys", just two factions that both had their valid reasons for what they are doing.

 

Ulfric Stormcloak believed that he was freeing Skyrim from oppression (even thou he was at least partially manipulated into this opinion by the Thalmor).

 

The Empire was trying to keep itself together so that it would not get divided, weakened and then destroyed by the Thalmor.

 

No true villains here, just two different agendas clashing

 

 

Which is very typical Bethesda writing. There is no such thing as a simple truth in their games. Like with Saadia - no matter what you do about her, you always think you did the right thing. The civil war is a good example of this, too. You are always on the "right side", no matter which one you pick. Which is very much like we feel in real life, too. In any conflict, both sides like to think of themselves as the good guys, too.

[ZofaSoldier]

 

 

Which is very typical Bethesda writing. There is no such thing as a simple truth in their games. Like with Saadia - no matter what you do about her, you always think you did the right thing. The civil war is a good example of this, too. You are always on the "right side", no matter which one you pick. Which is very much like we feel in real life, too. In any conflict, both sides like to think of themselves as the good guys, too.

 

 

You're right - the quest with Saadia is a prime example. I think I gave her to the mercenaries in the end but that quest was one of few where I took a really long time to decide what to do.

 

Any chance you could collaborate with greyspammer into integrating some of the lovely rubber gear from your mod into this one?

 

The biggest flaw currently (with both your's and this mods) is that when wearing full rubber you are absolutely unarmored and die in three hits. Have you thought about modifying the corset, hand ebonite bindings, feet ebonite bindings, iron bra and the collar to serve as armor (+be smithable)?

[Kimy]

 

 

 

Which is very typical Bethesda writing. There is no such thing as a simple truth in their games. Like with Saadia - no matter what you do about her, you always think you did the right thing. The civil war is a good example of this, too. You are always on the "right side", no matter which one you pick. Which is very much like we feel in real life, too. In any conflict, both sides like to think of themselves as the good guys, too.

 

 

You're right - the quest with Saadia is a prime example. I think I gave her to the mercenaries in the end but that quest was one of few where I took a really long time to decide what to do.

 

Any chance you could collaborate with greyspammer into integrating some of the lovely rubber gear from your mod into this one?

 

The biggest flaw currently (with both your's and this mods) is that when wearing full rubber you are absolutely unarmored and die in three hits. Have you thought about modifying the corset, hand ebonite bindings, feet ebonite bindings, iron bra and the collar to serve as armor (+be smithable)?

 

 

Well in terms of realism, there is not much protection a rubber catsuit would offer you. As far as the TIR set goes, one would think that the Mistress would put some magic protection on the suits before she sends her enforcers into the dangerous world of Skyrim, however.

 

[greyspammer]

Better protection is already in. In the (yet to be released) next release, the normal rubbersuits have armor values. And during the course of the story line, you get an even better new "experimental" suit with higher protection values.

[mutthe]

Jay greyspammer did listen to me asking for protection earlier ^^ full rubber for me. is it just an armor value so you can still enchant the suit for your needs?

[YVH155]

Hey there, I recently got this mod and decided to give it a try, ended up binging on it until 4AM when I completed the questline. Holy crap, this has some really fun parts in it!
I especially liked the slave escort and the fact that you can be submissive AND dominant at the same time (we need more brutal slave handling! I love being a rubber enforcer!). Other bonus points for the drool harvesting at the party. I never imagined I'd find that hot

I did run into some problems though. First and foremost (and rather annoying as it broke immersion) the gas mask simply didn't work. It gave me the text prompts on equip, but my character never actually wore it and could just put on regular helmets. I may have accidentally caused that by equipping the mask before the suit? I tried to fix it with the reset and unequip console commands but nothing worked.
During the slave escort mission the gag and armbinder animations on the slave unfortunately broke once we left the mines, and this remains broken since then.
Some slave in the pens was sitting behind the horse she's supposed to be on. I also had some issues with the boot licking scene. Due to the slope my character actually couldn't properly walk up to the mistress until a lucky collision happened. After that on the first boot licking I just fell through the floor and stayed afloat right under it. The first boot scene also seemed to last vey long (with nothing happening, not even some sound, it kinda felt like the game broke) whereas the second boot only lasted a few seconds.

I also have a small nitpick with the sweating messages: please use punctuation. This is a personal thing, but it just looks sloppy. I think you could also use a bit more variation there, and maybe a few more elaborate expressions to get the player's mind running.

The little locking surprise at the end is a thing I have mixed feelings about. It's clever and cruel, and is certainly great if you want to dedicate your playthrough as being a slavegirl (I'd definitely put a few simple randomized quests in there you can cycle between on a daily basis, as sort of a "post-game" to improve the feel of being a permanent slave) but I somewhat wish there would be an in-game hidden Amulet as a third option.
The strip and escape option isn't exactly a great idea for me, since I also play with the Frostfall mod and running around naked around water is a surefire way to get yourself killed then

 

I hope that, in case some of these bugs weren't caused because of missing mods or incompatibilities on my end, this will help you at least a bit during debugging.
Keep at it anyway, this mod has given me quite a bit of fun already, and I'd love to see more  

[mutthe]

the mask probem is from devious device hider that you have to turn off or to 60 as writen many times earlyer in this thread

[ZofaSoldier]

Greyspammer, you could divide the text messages about wearing the suit into two separate entries. Deviously cursed loot first prints the first part of the sentence and then the second which means the text is always the same size and readable. 

[Kimy]

Greyspammer, you could divide the text messages about wearing the suit into two separate entries. Deviously cursed loot first prints the first part of the sentence and then the second which means the text is always the same size and readable. 

 

I actually never break up sentences. You probably meant Apropos. I try to write my sentences short enough to fit into one line. But yes, when in doubt, I just use two sentences.

[greyspammer]

Greyspammer, you could divide the text messages about wearing the suit into two separate entries.

Theoretically I could do that. Not now of course, because I'm currently in a feature freeze (no new stuff, only bugfixing until release of the next version). But later.

 

However, there are some problems involved. Skyrim doesn't really have good string handling functions.

 

Example: Many other mods use Debug.Notification for such texts. I don't. Because the Debug fuctions are, as the name suggests, for debugging purposes. They're not really meant for productive use. Texts that the user should see have to be entered in the CK (not the scripts). One advantage of that is that you can add, remove and change texts without having to recompile scripts.

 

These texts in the CK are (aptly) called "Messages". And on the script side, they are represented as Message script objects. But there are no methods to split the string in the Message. Or extract it for SKSE's StringUtil. Basically all you can do with a Message is call its "Show()" method to display it. And that's it.

 

Now I either split the texts in the CK manually (meaning I created 2 or more Messages for one text popup). Or I switch to functions that, as I understand it, you're not supposed to use in a productive case. Both of which seem inelegant to me and bring a lot of work with them. So I'm a bit reluctant with that and simply try keep to keep my notifications short.

 

In my opinion, SKSE should add a GetString() function or something like that to all objects that contain text (Messages, Books, etc.). That would really help.

[ZofaSoldier]

 

Greyspammer, you could divide the text messages about wearing the suit into two separate entries.

Theoretically I could do that. Not now of course, because I'm currently in a feature freeze (no new stuff, only bugfixing until release of the next version). But later.

 

However, there are some problems involved. Skyrim doesn't really have good string handling functions.

 

Example: Many other mods use Debug.Notification for such texts. I don't. Because the Debug fuctions are, as the name suggests, for debugging purposes. They're not really meant for productive use. Texts that the user should see have to be entered in the CK (not the scripts). One advantage of that is that you can add, remove and change texts without having to recompile scripts.

 

These texts in the CK are (aptly) called "Messages". And on the script side, they are represented as Message script objects. But there are no methods to split the string in the Message. Or extract it for SKSE's StringUtil. Basically all you can do with a Message is call its "Show()" method to display it. And that's it.

 

Now I either split the texts in the CK manually (meaning I created 2 or more Messages for one text popup). Or I switch to functions that, as I understand it, you're not supposed to use in a productive case. Both of which seem inelegant to me and bring a lot of work with them. So I'm a bit reluctant with that and simply try keep to keep my notifications short.

 

In my opinion, SKSE should add a GetString() function or something like that to all objects that contain text (Messages, Books, etc.). That would really help.

 

 

The whole CK seems like a terrible tool to use as a newbie. I wanted to create an extension of vampirism that would apply effects based on the stage of "accustomed to rubber". I had a look at how the abilities are implemented and it seems terribly unintuitive for me - each vampirism ability is it's own entity (which means that there are over 10 vampirism entries in the CK skills tab).

 

Adding a text description to any ability has the same text problem - the more text you add the smaller the font size becomes. I don't understand why they did not solve the problem by allowing variables in the text description and ability strength - only one entry per ability would be needed.

 

I hoped I could just extend the vampirism class and change what I needed, but I haven't even gotten into looking at the scripting language as it took me an hour just to figure out how the abilities work and trigger.

 

I can't imagine how Bethesda makes games in this thing - the debugging must be terribly time consuming.

 

(I am not mentioning the number of crashes the CK did on me, nor the fact that after saving my project the file was nowhere to be found so had to manually copy and rename backup files).

[andagain]

I just want to let you know I am looking forward to your next update, it is a very enjoyable mod.

 

You mentioned better protection on the rubber suits. Does this mean that you are going to place a forge and enchantment table in the basement?

 

I do use the frost fall mod, so escaping can kill me rather quickly in the frigid water, any chance of a slightly warmer or dryer escape?

 

One last thing, would it be possible to make some repeatable side-quest for the Mistress? You changed the guards as the quest progresses. So it could be fun to help upgrade the guards or Keep. Or maybe go out and set some Rubber traps, and bring back what you catch. People could starve in the traps if you don't check them often and would upset the Mistress and get punished for the bad rumours from the traps. Would just be nice to have a reason to keep going back and maybe be put back in check if you deserve it or not. Or a item/effect that grows in intensity until you go back and get it recharge or discharged at the keep.

 

I'm sure you have plenty of ideas, maybe just not enough time.

 

Hope to see the next update soon.

 

 

[greyspammer]

You mentioned better protection on the rubber suits. Does this mean that you are going to place a forge and enchantment table in the basement?

An enchanter is already placed. There's no forge yet because that would require me to also set up recipes in the CK. Right now, I have more pressing things to do.

 

I do use the frost fall mod, so escaping can kill me rather quickly in the frigid water, any chance of a slightly warmer or dryer escape?

Probably not. It's supposed to be a dangerous escape. If it were easy or safe, every one could use it.

 

I did however put a fireplace in the basement for the frostfall users. Hopefully, that should help when sleeping down there.

 

One last thing, would it be possible to make some repeatable side-quest for the Mistress?

Yes it would be. Those who follow this thread longer know I'm a bit sceptical about those. Any repeatable quest must, by definition, also be repetitive. I'm not completely against them and have some ideas what might be good radiant quests. But it's not a top priority and it won't happen with the next release.

 

I'm currently contemplating whether or not I should remake the final quest. The one I have now doesn't really work the way I want to and I might have to can it and go for something completely different.

[Blackness blackness is...]

 

I'm currently contemplating whether or not I should remake the final quest. The one I have now doesn't really work the way I want to and I might have to can it and go for something completely different.

 

care to spoil it then? maybe we could give you our opinions 

[greyspammer]

care to spoil it then? maybe we could give you our opinions 

 

 

 

Well, the original one was supposed to an all out assault on the Tower. But it just doesn't come off right. Actors don't spawn like they should, they behave erratically and the general combat is wreaking havoc on the few scenes that are happening in parallel to take care of the story part. Either what I want is to demanding for what Skyrim and the CK allow or it's just beyond my personal capabilities.

 

I have an idea for a replacement but I would need a rather large dungeon (of the nordic burial type, ideally with lots of draugr) which is not tied into other quests or events that I can appropriate for my quest. Failing that, I'd need to build one myself and that would be a lot of work. Or I could copy one but I'd still need a good template that requires little clean-up. Suggestions?

 

 

[naaitsab]

You can duplicate interiour cells and link them together. So for example you take level 2 of crypt A and take lvl 1 of crypt B and take the entrance-level of crypt C and linking the doors to the duplicates. I would suggest taking a look at the smaller non-main quest crypts as they are easier to tweak. Just don't forget any navmeshing if you edit interior stuff. NPC's don't like messy Nav's

 

You can also add a locked door/teleport to an existing crypt to teleport to just 1 custom interior.

[Blackness blackness is...]

i don't have the slightest idea where this is going. but it has to be better than that huge hectic assault

[greyspammer]

You can duplicate interiour cells and link them together.

 

I know. I already did that for a previous quest. However, there's still a lot of clean-up to do. So if I can save the time by using just one big one...