What really pisses you off? please no posts about nexus lol

[gregathit]

That you are self aware and learning lessons beyond what was taught is the whole point, so I would not call it a total waste.  Learning from your mistakes is a good thing.  Learning from the mistakes of others is even better. 

 

[DoctaSax]

38 minutes ago, TheOzoneHole said:

Higher education trains incompetent teachers because the people who teach in both higher ed and K-12 are incompetent because they were taught by people who are incompetent... Oh and the pay is garbage so anyone smart goes into a different field and takes up teaching in retirement to supplement their 401k and Social Security. 

I was a teacher. Quitting was one of the best decisions I ever made. I don't blame my training, I just went through the motions to have that extra degree - I knew how do it. The practical reality of teaching is that it's made impossible for us to actually get some teaching done. You either go along with that and let it eat at you, or you stop.

[TheOzoneHole]

I want to quote everyone but that'd be unreasonably long. And yes, pretty much, learn from others mistakes is kind of the theme here; and we'll continue it with this wonderful image....

 

Spoiler

 

That moment you finally realize why you don't look much like your father...?

 

To be clear, I'm not pissed off about this; I just want to know who was most embarrassed, Morgyn or her parents. 

This pulls back to one of the things that I see more and more, people giving their children a "clever" name. (I've gripped about this here before.) You aren't being clever, you are being an asshole. I don't care if "Shithead" (pronounced "Sh-the-ed") is a name from your culture, your kid is still going to spend at least 18 years of his/her life with pretty much everyone asking them why their parents named them shit head.

Learn from other people's mistakes, don't give your kids a clever or slightly altered spelling with their name. Also make sure their initials don't create a word.

 

@DoctaSax 

Spoiler

In some ways I'd love to quit teaching but the two problems are that 1) I'm good at it and my students (the ones who want to learn anyway) constantly tell me I've really helped them understand the subject, and I hate quitting when I'm doing well.  And 2) no-one wants to hire someone in my field for an entry level job if the person being hired has a Masters degree. Must have the Masters to teach, and undergrad degree is in a completely different field...which requires a Masters for entry level jobs.  Oops. I know I'd make more not teaching, but I enjoy it and learned pretty early on to just ignore the ones who actively don't want to learn (never show up, never do work, etc.) which makes the job relatively low stress.

 

@gregathit 

Spoiler

I agree, education absolutely has to start at home, but how do we get a dumbass to teach their kids not to be a dumbass?  The other problem being those families where older children pretty much raise the younger children because mom and/or dad aren't home. We do expect way more from the public education system in the US than is in any way reasonable and then blame the teachers when kids act like kids and when teens with jobs who need to work to support their families don't pay attention or fall asleep because they only got 2 hours of sleep due to being at school and work effectively all day. At this point walking it all back is effectively impossible. Though I am hopeful that the cult of standardized testing is dying, what with even more schools refusing to accept those test results as an entry requirement what with CV messing up the testing cycle so much this year.  The cold war is long over, we need to stop worrying about how well students in Russia and China are testing and worry more about just getting students in our major cities reading at grade level.  

 

Sorry, guess this ended up being long anyway, spoilers to take up less space. 

[gregathit]

We break the cycle by sending those who refuse to learn home.  Fuck them.  Fuck their parents.  If they can't be bothered to learn, then why should society waste any more time on them?  You can't force them to learn.  At least not if you are a teacher.  I know that sounds harsh, but what is more cruel is to pretend we care and just shuffle them off to the side and pass them every year to the next grade not being able to do simple math or read.  

 

Of course we need to first test the child to make sure they don't have a disability that is preventing them from learning, like dyslexia or the like. 

 

The child is doomed either way.  At least if we kicked them out early it just might scare both the parent and the child enough to understand they need to get their shit together. 

If they still refuse, then let them be a looser.  Why should we care if they don't?  You can also offer them a military type academy which will use punishment (pushups, running and so on) if they won't conform.  

 

I get that we as a society want to be all soft and call it "enlightened", but in reality, we are just passing the buck and being more cruel.  Who is more likely to get their act together, a 7 year old or an 18 year old?  You have to mold kids when they are young, not wait until they are old and hardened.  I think you know that as well or better than most.

 

I don't claim to have all the answers. I don't even claim to be right.  I just think we are doing a disservice looking the other way like we are now.

[Mr. Otaku]

2 hours ago, gregathit said:

We break the cycle by sending those who refuse to learn home.  Fuck them.  Fuck their parents.  If they can't be bothered to learn, then why should society waste any more time on them?  You can't force them to learn.

That's fine and all but i don't think the cycle would break that easy, as it turns out, stupid people tend to create more stupid people. I think i saw somewhere the correlation between stupidity/illiteracy and birthrates. This is why birthrates are exploding in the middle of Africa and other such countries, they don't know any better. And then finding educable kids while also finding those that can properly educate to begin with becomes an even harder task because the whole platform is clueless that can't recognize/understand the importance intelligence and education if you slapped them up the head with it.

 

This is a total mess.

[s.kirmish]

On 6/28/2020 at 12:58 PM, gregathit said:

We break the cycle by sending those who refuse to learn home.  Fuck them.  Fuck their parents.  If they can't be bothered to learn, then why should society waste any more time on them?  You can't force them to learn.  At least not if you are a teacher.  I know that sounds harsh, but what is more cruel is to pretend we care and just shuffle them off to the side and pass them every year to the next grade not being able to do simple math or read.  

 

Of course we need to first test the child to make sure they don't have a disability that is preventing them from learning, like dyslexia or the like. 

 

The child is doomed either way.  At least if we kicked them out early it just might scare both the parent and the child enough to understand they need to get their shit together. 

If they still refuse, then let them be a looser.  Why should we care if they don't?  You can also offer them a military type academy which will use punishment (pushups, running and so on) if they won't conform.  

 

I get that we as a society want to be all soft and call it "enlightened", but in reality, we are just passing the buck and being more cruel.  Who is more likely to get their act together, a 7 year old or an 18 year old?  You have to mold kids when they are young, not wait until they are old and hardened.  I think you know that as well or better than most.

 

I don't claim to have all the answers. I don't even claim to be right.  I just think we are doing a disservice looking the other way like we are now.

In principle I would agree with all of this, but I see the same problem with this approach, as is famous with the "not everyone should breed/ get a license to do that" argument. (which I can also in principle agree with)

The issue is that this gives the institutions that make those decisions way too much power over society, and make their mistakes (doesn't even have to be the inevitable corruption) throw very large shadows and injustices on people's lives.

There was a time where I, as a teenager, wasn't at my best. We moved to another city, and along with the problems that my old dear cycle of friends got axed, I got a new one there that was very different in tone and manner, so I tried to adapt and behaved very different too. Mostly lazy and more renitent. Then to this the fact that the schools there had a formalism fetish policy (controlling your notes+folders and grading them. rating your handwriting on math exams etc.), which I strongly objected to following, because it is stupid and intrusive. I thought learning was the goal here, but instead they projected their ideals of what order should be as if to replace the parents.(and deducted 10-20% of points for it on every exam)

Together these two things caused my grades to temporarily plummet so hard, that first they had a teacher council that decided not to recommend me for high school, and then later, after my mother decided to send me anyway (because she knew my past), would've kicked me out if not for the mercy of one geography teacher that retroactively corrected a grade so that I couldn't be.

...Just one to two years later, moved cities again, suddenly top of my class, because the new school had teachers talking to me, working as guide rather than authority, which solved all my problems in under 3 months. Went on to graduate in physics, and am now literally programming computers to program their own simulations.(..because the laziness still stuck :P)

 

There was no mental disorder I could've been diagnosed with to change perspective on me. If it had been up to that one school, or if there was a nationwide policy to just expel renitent students, "because they can't be fixed", I would have been a goner, and none of the potential realized.

The point is you cannot really predict a child's future ever. Even their tested IQ can vary by as much as 20 points in just a few years at that age. You can of course make success statistics that correlate certain behavior and scores with certain outcomes, but if you really go to use that as a guide, you are going to kill good people off.

..And that in turn is not good for society, not to mention unjust.

 

The only thing is see can be done is to let everyone have a shot at education. ..A shot that can't be deflected by someone's personal opinion about you alone.

[FauxFurry]

15 minutes ago, s.kirmish said:

In principle I would agree with all of this, but I see the same problem with this approach, as is famous with the "not everyone should breed/ get a license to do that" argument. (which I can also in principle agree with)

The issue is that this gives the institutions that make those decisions way too much power over society, and make their mistakes (doesn't even have to be the inevitable corruption) throw very large shadows and injustices on people's lives.

There was a time where I, as a teenager, wasn't at my best. We moved to another city, and along with the problems that my old dear cycle of friends got axed, I got a new one there that was very different in tone and manner, so I tried to adapt and behaved very different too. Mostly lazy and more renitent. Then to this the fact that the schools there had a formalism fetish policy (controlling your notes+folders and grading them. rating your handwriting on math exams etc.), which I strongly objected to following, because it is stupid and intrusive. I thought learning was the goal here, but instead they projected their ideals of what order should be as if to replace the parents.(and deducted 10-20% of points for it on every exam)

Together these two things caused my grades to temporarily plummet so hard, that first they had a teacher council that decided not to recommend me for high school, and then later, after my mother decided to send me anyway (because she knew my past), would've kicked me out if not for the mercy of one geography teacher that retroactively corrected a grade so that I couldn't be.

...Just one to two years later, moved cities again, suddenly top of my class, because the new school had teachers talking to me, working as guide rather than authority, which solved all my problems in under 3 months. Went on to graduate in physics, and am now literally programming computers to program their own simulations.(..because the laziness still stuck :P)

 

There was no mental disorder I could've been diagnosed with to change perspective on me. If it had been up to that one school, or if there was a nationwide policy to just expel renitent students, "because they can't be fixed", I would have been a goner, and none of the potential realized.

The point is you cannot really predict a child's future ever. Even their tested IQ can vary by as much as 20 points in just a few years at that age. You can of course make success statistics that correlate certain behavior and scores with certain outcomes, but if you really go to use that as a guide, you are going to kill good people off.

..And that in turn is not good for society, not to mention unjust.

 

The only thing is see can be done is to let everyone have a shot at education. ..A shot that can't be deflected by someone's personal opinion about you alone.

It sounds like it is up to parents to shop around to find the right school for their children rather than leaving it all up to someone else if they can not home-school their children themselves.

[gregathit]

On 6/30/2020 at 5:18 AM, s.kirmish said:

In principle I would agree with all of this, but I see the same problem with this approach, as is famous with the "not everyone should breed/ get a license to do that" argument. (which I can also in principle agree with)

The issue is that this gives the institutions that make those decisions way too much power over society, and make their mistakes (doesn't even have to be the inevitable corruption) throw very large shadows and injustices on people's lives.

There was a time where I, as a teenager, wasn't at my best. We moved to another city, and along with the problems that my old dear cycle of friends got axed, I got a new one there that was very different in tone and manner, so I tried to adapt and behaved very different too. Mostly lazy and more renitent. Then to this the fact that the schools there had a formalism fetish policy (controlling your notes+folders and grading them. rating your handwriting on math exams etc.), which I strongly objected to following, because it is stupid and intrusive. I thought learning was the goal here, but instead they projected their ideals of what order should be as if to replace the parents.(and deducted 10-20% of points for it on every exam)

Together these two things caused my grades to temporarily plummet so hard, that first they had a teacher council that decided not to recommend me for high school, and then later, after my mother decided to send me anyway (because she knew my past), would've kicked me out if not for the mercy of one geography teacher that retroactively corrected a grade so that I couldn't be.

...Just one to two years later, moved cities again, suddenly top of my class, because the new school had teachers talking to me, working as guide rather than authority, which solved all my problems in under 3 months. Went on to graduate in physics, and am now literally programming computers to program their own simulations.(..because the laziness still stuck :P)

 

There was no mental disorder I could've been diagnosed with to change perspective on me. If it had been up to that one school, or if there was a nationwide policy to just expel renitent students, "because they can't be fixed", I would have been a goner, and none of the potential realized.

The point is you cannot really predict a child's future ever. Even their tested IQ can vary by as much as 20 points in just a few years at that age. You can of course make success statistics that correlate certain behavior and scores with certain outcomes, but if you really go to use that as a guide, you are going to kill good people off.

..And that in turn is not good for society, not to mention unjust.

 

The only thing is see can be done is to let everyone have a shot at education. ..A shot that can't be deflected by someone's personal opinion about you alone.

Again, I don't propose a set of people to review you.  Nor was proposing an intrusive/subjective set of rules or systems.  Instead I am proposing that we set standards, group like kids with like kids. If a kid is self motivated and doing well, put him with students that learn similarly rather than put him in the corner and make him wait and be bored (and likely to end up having to be called out for discipline problems) while the teacher concentrates all their time on the one or two students that can't seem to get it.  Also, much smaller class sizes.  10-20 max per teacher.  Yes it will take up more space, but who cares.  Either that or they just refuse to.  Boot those two.  Put them in a class with similarly slow kids.  Or similarly rebellious.  I wouldn't mix the two.  One may want to learn but has some hang up.  The other, give them several chances and boot them.  The parents will need to either educate them from home, pay for another school to take them, or the military type academy that I mentioned earlier who could take some of the starch out of them.  I'm also saying we scrap all of the nonsense that they try to teach kids today.  Stick to basic history, math, reading and writing. I'd add a computer class on basic use for those that aren't savvy.  That is it.  All the other stuff can be after school electives or they can take stuff online that interests them.  Do away with school sports.  Waste of time, money and building space.  Gym classes also are gone.  Parents need to step up and teach kids how and when to exercise as well as all the other stuff.  When you are failing at the basics you need to cut the crap and concentrate ONLY on the basics until you get that right.  I've not mentioned race in any of this as I consider race to be a non-factor.  Your skin color doesn't have jack shit to do with your ability to learn.  Never has.  So skin color to me should be ignored and never tracked or factored in.

On 6/30/2020 at 5:36 AM, FauxFurry said:

It sounds like it is up to parents to shop around to find the right school for their children rather than leaving it all up to someone else if they can not home-school their children themselves.

I'm very much in favor of school choice.  I think everyone should have vouchers and pick where they want to go.  I'd like to public schools go away personally.  Same for teachers unions.  They are just obstacles that prevent change.  And don't get me wrong, what we are currently doing MUST CHANGE.  Look at the wrecks that both parents and schools are turning out right now.  Now I get that public schools probably won't go away, but I'd like to see curriculum choices be removed from school boards.  The only thing a school board should be in charge of is what is for lunch.  The standards should be set at the national level by experts and not by politicians.  By doing away with all the extra fluff of gyms, sports and all the other crap, then we concentrate on upping teacher pay and holding them accountable for teaching.  

[Redflyingmonkey]

On 6/30/2020 at 7:44 PM, gregathit said:

Again, I don't propose a set of people to review you.  Nor was proposing an intrusive/subjective set of rules or systems.  Instead I am proposing that we set standards, group like kids with like kids. If a kid is self motivated and doing well, put him with students that learn similarly rather than put him in the corner and make him wait and be bored (and likely to end up having to be called out for discipline problems) while the teacher concentrates all their time on the one or two students that can't seem to get it.  Also, much smaller class sizes.  10-20 max per teacher.  Yes it will take up more space, but who cares.  Either that or they just refuse to.  Boot those two.  Put them in a class with similarly slow kids.  Or similarly rebellious.  I wouldn't mix the two.  One may want to learn but has some hang up.  The other, give them several chances and boot them.  The parents will need to either educate them from home, pay for another school to take them, or the military type academy that I mentioned earlier who could take some of the starch out of them.  I'm also saying we scrap all of the nonsense that they try to teach kids today.  Stick to basic history, math, reading and writing. I'd add a computer class on basic use for those that aren't savvy.  That is it.  All the other stuff can be after school electives or they can take stuff online that interests them.  Do away with school sports.  Waste of time, money and building space.  Gym classes also are gone.  Parents need to step up and teach kids how and when to exercise as well as all the other stuff.  When you are failing at the basics you need to cut the crap and concentrate ONLY on the basics until you get that right.  I've not mentioned race in any of this as I consider race to be a non-factor.  Your skin color doesn't have jack shit to do with your ability to learn.  Never has.  So skin color to me should be ignored and never tracked or factored in.

I'm very much in favor of school choice.  I think everyone should have vouchers and pick where they want to go.  I'd like to public schools go away personally.  Same for teachers unions.  They are just obstacles that prevent change.  And don't get me wrong, what we are currently doing MUST CHANGE.  Look at the wrecks that both parents and schools are turning out right now.  Now I get that public schools probably won't go away, but I'd like to see curriculum choices be removed from school boards.  The only thing a school board should be in charge of is what is for lunch.  The standards should be set at the national level by experts and not by politicians.  By doing away with all the extra fluff of gyms, sports and all the other crap, then we concentrate on upping teacher pay and holding them accountable for teaching.  

As a teacher, a lot of what you say make sense, yet some of it seems completely bonkers. Reducing class size has been proven time and time again to be the main factor that helps kids learn better, it's just crystal clear. You have 10/15 kids in class instead of 25/30, you can start to assess their individual strenghts and weaknesses better and give personally tailored exercises. Whereas now, most of the students struggling keep on struggling, and the better students get bored. It's cut out for those in the middle of the fray, who'll get influenced by the two extremes, and either get left behind when they have an energy drop for one semester, or they outgrow the difficulty of the lesson and they get bored with school. Plus, having smaller sized classes allows the teacher to actually judge a paper on ideas instead of good/bad answers (more time to correct, more patience, less mechanical chores...). 

That said, taking away the "difficult" stuff and focusing on the basics is not the solution. In Scandinavian countries, where students learn another language perfectly in school + a lot of basic knowledge (that'll seem to be advanced to the average American/French/Italian, whatever), they not only learn more difficult things, but at the same time. They have "Humanities" lessons, "Sciences" lessons, "Arts" lessons, "Technical" lessons, where things are mixed together, so you can have at the same time History, Litterature and Philosophy, and the teacher would be perfectly able to judge them on all of these subjects at the same time. That allows for a way less messy week, with distinct domains of knowledge that you can specialize in OR you can choose at 14 and 16 to focus on technical knowledge. Interdisciplinarity is the only way for kids to absorb knowledge whether they like it or not, as they realize not listening to one class jeopardizes 1/4th of their entire assessment, and ultimately 1/4th of their entire school knowledge. Even if they blank out sometimes, the risk that an entire lesson is doomed to oblivion in their minds is reduced, as they may not follow the algorithm lessons, but wake up on the applied physics lesson (which will use algorithms and force them to re-learn it anyway). That's the only hope of our modern school. 

On another subject, I'm not mad in any way about you banning me for a few weeks but I still strongly maintain what I said and I'm not sorry in the least. 

[gregathit]

36 minutes ago, Redflyingmonkey said:

As a teacher, a lot of what you say make sense, yet some of it seems completely bonkers. 

What did I say that was bonkers?  Not trying to pick a fight, I just have no idea what you are referring to.

37 minutes ago, Redflyingmonkey said:

Reducing class size has been proven time and time again to be the main factor that helps kids learn better, it's just crystal clear. 

Exactly.  I've relations that are educators as well as friends/relations that educate the educators, and this is something that they point out quite a bit.  Unfortunately for some reason, this gets zero traction.  I can't for the life of me figure out why.  I don't know if it is a bean counter problem or it just isn't a glamorous solution that attracts attention.

40 minutes ago, Redflyingmonkey said:

That said, taking away the "difficult" stuff and focusing on the basics is not the solution. 

On this I beg to differ.  We are graduating folks who can't read, who can't write and who can't count.  Until this is eliminated we have focus on that as a minimum.  If you go back and read my previous posts, you'll see that I do point out that all those other things can be electives that are taught outside of the core curriculum.  As for calling the electives "difficult"......I found foreign language studies a lot easier than trig or calculus.  So I'm not sure that label is properly applied.  My whole point is that if you master the basics at an early stage (grade school) then you will be in a better position for learning pretty much anything you want to from 7th grade and on.  Even college.  You don't need a foreign language skill, home economics, social studies or any of that other stuff to do well in college.  It won't help you if you do know them, it won't hurt you if you don't. 

[27X]

27 minutes ago, gregathit said:

I can't for the life of me figure out why.  I don't know if it is a bean counter problem or it just isn't a glamorous solution that attracts attention.

Because A it's really expensive and B it's been proven false several notable times in the the last thirty years and C education is not a priority in the United States and never will be because the national mindset is "fuck you, got mine", you're expected to boot strap and you're expected to be naturally gifted in whatever endeavor you attempt if you want to live a profitable comfortable life.

 

Yes size does matter but it only matters in degrees until you reach a size where teaching at all is untenable. The quality of teachers and students matter far FAR more than class size. The paradigm is it is easier to teach in smaller sets and was considered to be more effective because results are more immediate, but as it turns out those results table out over time. Western education as it became standardized was built to service the industrial revolution and that shit ended almost 100 years ago, that's how out of date the system is. The vast majority of teachers at the lowest and highest levels of education teach because it's the avenue of least resistance and especially at the highest levels guarantees infinite quality grade comfyness for literally repeating yourself and doing not terribly much in the way of research unless you teach in advanced engineering or technology or a very thin slice of biology. Apathy is built into the system as a foundational tool and a measure of success.

 

Teaching 30 students that want to learn is way easier and progresses much further than teaching 10 who don't give the slightest fuck. There's a reason apprenticeships fare far better than rote routine and that reason isn't amount of principal participants, the reason is intent and desire.

[gregathit]

8 minutes ago, 27X said:

Because A it's really expensive and B it's been proven false several notable times in the the last thirty years and C education is not a priority in the United States and never will be because the national mindset is "fuck you, got mine", you're expected to boot strap and you're expected to be naturally gifted in whatever endeavor you attempt if you want to live a profitable comfortable life.

 

Yes size does matter but it only matters in degrees until you reach a size where teaching at all is untenable. The quality of teachers and students matter far FAR more than class size. The paradigm is it is easier to teach in smaller sets and was considered to be more effective because results are more immediate, but as it turns out those results table out over time. Western education as it became standardized was built to service the industrial revolution and that shit ended almost 100 years ago, that's how out of date the system is. The vast majority of teachers at the lowest and highest levels of education teach because it's the avenue of least resistance and especially at the highest levels guarantees infinite quality grade comfyness for literally repeating yourself and doing not terribly much in the way of research unless you teach in advanced engineering or technology or a very thin slice of biology. Apathy is built into the system as a foundational tool and a measure of success.

 

Teaching 30 students that want to learn is way easier and progresses much further than teaching 10 who don't give the slightest fuck. There's a reason apprenticeships fare far better than rote routine and that reason isn't amount of principal participants, the reason is intent and desire.

I don't disagree in general terms with most of this.  I do think smaller class sizes are better than large.  What that sweet spot would be could be found I'd think fairly easily (if studies haven't already done so).  One part I do disagree with is America doesn't care about education.  Governors and Mayors are forever raising taxes to spend yet more money on schools.  What they fail to realize is that a shiny new building doesn't magically translate to educated kids.  They'd be better off with metal buildings and higher teacher salaries.  

 

As to the 10 who don't give a fuck, I stated we confirm that it is attitude and not ability (dyslexia or similar) and then we boot their asses.  Why should a teacher or school or the public waste time with them?  Their parents will have to get off their asses and get the kid straightened out or teach them at home (or pay someone to take them).

 

On the national mindset of boot strapping, I'm all for this and see nothing wrong with it.  If you want something in life, you are going to have to get up off your ass and go get it.  Want to fuck the prom queen, fine, get your shit together so that she wants get jiggy with you.  I don't buy the natural ability stuff too much.  There are lots of natural ability failures out there.  Work hard and make good choices in life and you turn out fine most of the time.  I've seen this for many years.  Sure, there are ups and downs, but I have rarely ever seen folks who work hard and make good choices begging for anything.  Most of the time those down on their luck are there because they are lazy or because they made piss poor choices.  America is the land of opportunity.  It is not the land of park your ass and shit will come to you.  I'm not saying you said any of this, I'm just pointing out why I don't see boot strapping as something necessarily bad.

 

I'm definitely all for apprenticeships.  I'd like to see more folks go this route than college.  Construction sure could use it and it can be a gateway to serious money.  A master electrician/plumber/hvac tech can make a very good living and not have to have any of the debt that a college student would rack up.  Hell, the master electrician probably makes more money than 80% of those college graduates.   

[TheOzoneHole]

Skyrim Special Edition.

 

Fuck this for existing. Fuck Bugthesda twice for making it. And Fuck me for wasting nearly five hours trying to get the damned thing working after installing less than 10 mods and updating less than a dozen others.  Hell, I'd turned off all of what I thought were script heavy mods before starting the new game.

[Reginald_001]

Whoever thought that adding channels into Gimp and then NOT making them functional.. whoever thought that GIMP, or it's MORONIC interface was a good idea, and whoever designed the GUI for GIMP... Should be forbidden from ever touching any kind of technology, ever again.

 

If you come looking for a job in my IT team.. and I'm interviewing you. And you were part of the design team behind GIMP. You will be escorted out of the building by our security.

 

That is all.

[KoolHndLuke]

On 7/3/2020 at 9:20 AM, gregathit said:

As to the 10 who don't give a fuck, I stated we confirm that it is attitude and not ability (dyslexia or similar) and then we boot their asses.  Why should a teacher or school or the public waste time with them?  Their parents will have to get off their asses and get the kid straightened out or teach them at home (or pay someone to take them).

You're basically condemning those ten kids to a life of hate and violence and then they just start their new career in earnest. Hell, they learn the "attitude" from the family that's supposed to care and their buddies. What you gonna do about that shit? Increase police? Not working.

 

 

The "Thug Life" can sound very appealing to a youth, especially one that the system has failed. Teachers and the public schools are the only chance for a different life some of these kids have. The GTA series portrays the U.S. pretty damn accurately.

 

 

[rdrakken]

On 6/28/2020 at 5:58 AM, gregathit said:

We break the cycle by sending those who refuse to learn home.  Fuck them.  Fuck their parents.  If they can't be bothered to learn, then why should society waste any more time on them?  You can't force them to learn.  At least not if you are a teacher.  I know that sounds harsh, but what is more cruel is to pretend we care and just shuffle them off to the side and pass them every year to the next grade not being able to do simple math or read.  

 

Of course we need to first test the child to make sure they don't have a disability that is preventing them from learning, like dyslexia or the like. 

 

The child is doomed either way.  At least if we kicked them out early it just might scare both the parent and the child enough to understand they need to get their shit together. 

If they still refuse, then let them be a looser.  Why should we care if they don't?  You can also offer them a military type academy which will use punishment (pushups, running and so on) if they won't conform.  

 

I get that we as a society want to be all soft and call it "enlightened", but in reality, we are just passing the buck and being more cruel.  Who is more likely to get their act together, a 7 year old or an 18 year old?  You have to mold kids when they are young, not wait until they are old and hardened.  I think you know that as well or better than most.

 

I don't claim to have all the answers. I don't even claim to be right.  I just think we are doing a disservice looking the other way like we are now.

I highly suggest you read Thomas Sowells new book "Charter Schools and their Enemies".

In it he proves that its the public schools, the teachers and their methods, not the kids. Statistics, years worth and from across America. Some of the worst kids, with very low grades suddenly doing far better, in a charter school. Their methods are very different in some cases, including knowing that some kids just plain need to be taught differently...OMG, no fucking way...kids are individuals too and a teacher should not have to use the same method on all of them? 

[A-Mi go]

I'm pissed off. No furious, because my goverment stirred anti-LGBT sentiments. There are people, some that I know already affected. There are cases of ostracism, violence and more. 

And I might be forced to move abroad, and if I do it will be not because I want or choose to but because I'm forced to.

[gregathit]

9 hours ago, rdrakken said:

I highly suggest you read Thomas Sowells new book "Charter Schools and their Enemies".

In it he proves that its the public schools, the teachers and their methods, not the kids. Statistics, years worth and from across America. Some of the worst kids, with very low grades suddenly doing far better, in a charter school. Their methods are very different in some cases, including knowing that some kids just plain need to be taught differently...OMG, no fucking way...kids are individuals too and a teacher should not have to use the same method on all of them? 

Thomas Sowell is indeed a very smart man.  I enjoy the crap out of his youtube talks.  Too bad many more people do not give him a listen.

 

One thing you are missing here is that a charter school has ZERO obligation to retain students if they demonstrate that they are not there to learn.  I'm not blaming kids, what the fuck do they know?  Kids and their attitudes about learning come from the parents.  I blame parents for the failures in education today.  As for kids being individuals......yea whatever.  That is not so much as a blip in all of this.  Charter schools are not some magic wand you can wave.  They depend on good teachers (as you mentioned) and YES, students that are willing to learn.  Why are those students willing to learn, because they have a parent standing behind them that is letting them know that back to public school you go if you get kicked out.  I remember being a kid and NO, I did not want to go to school or do school work (at school or home).  Most kids don't.  But I had parents that would whoop my ass if I didn't.  It all comes down to parents in the end.

[gregathit]

19 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

You're basically condemning those ten kids to a life of hate and violence and then they just start their new career in earnest. Hell, they learn the "attitude" from the family that's supposed to care and their buddies. What you gonna do about that shit? Increase police? Not working.

 

 

The "Thug Life" can sound very appealing to a youth, especially one that the system has failed. Teachers and the public schools are the only chance for a different life some of these kids have. The GTA series portrays the U.S. pretty damn accurately.

 

 

Actually the reverse would be true.  Instead of 1,000+ going that route (which is what is going on today - look at Chicago for example) you'd cut it down to the ten I mentioned.  Folks need a wake up call.  Your kid being kicked to the curb should be enough get the parents up off of their asses and get involved in their child's life.  Tough love ya know.  As to the life of crime being their only other option........well read the rest of my post.  There are other options open.  Military school, yep, it will suck, but they will get the discipline that they were sorely lacking.  Homeschool is another option.  This doesn't have to be the burden that it used to be, there are online schools that do the vast majority of the work of the teacher.  There are also trade schools to give them some work skills as  they get older.  Apprenticeships are also there.  Almost every trade in construction is hurting for skilled workers.  You can make a decent living if you are willing to work.  If you are not willing to work, then fuck off and starve. 

 

As to the thug life, well, I'm all for very harsh penalties for that shit.  You engage in armed robbery or murder, fuck you for life.  Seriously.  Polite society need not waste any more time on you.  I'd also like to see those in prison being forced to do hard labor.  Get it across to folks that the glamour of the GTA is only in a video game.  Real life has serious consequences.

[KoolHndLuke]

2 hours ago, gregathit said:

Military school

Huh? Who goes to these schools? Never talked to anybody that has.

 

2 hours ago, gregathit said:

Homeschool is another option

Not an option for working parents- and most are I would think. Unless things have changed so much that kids get to stay home alone all day. They didn't when I was growing up. But, I could totally get into a personal tutor or hot baby sitter even now! 

 

2 hours ago, gregathit said:

online schools that do the vast majority of the work of the teacher

Cold and impersonal. Also offers no role models maybe like a teacher would. The students also miss out on learning some valuable life skills in a school (or work) environment. Also does not encourage social engagement in a structured, responsible setting.

 

2 hours ago, gregathit said:

Almost every trade in construction is hurting for skilled workers.

Yeah, every kid dreams of being Joe Builder. 

 

2 hours ago, gregathit said:

very harsh penalties for that shit

There are very harsh penalties for that shit. It's called the penitentiary. You're prospects there are shank or be shanked or be somebodies bitch. If you survive that intact, then you will attend thuggery and thievery 101 and advance. You will be released with a record and nobody will hire you hardly since most employers want impeccable credentials for any decent well-paying job.

 

 

All in all, I still think the public school systems still provide a valuable service to the communities. You know all these alternatives because you are older and more world savvy. The average poor kid has no idea and is going to try to emulate the first thing he/she sees- like maybe the deadbeat drug addict father that rotates in and out of prison or the drug addict mother that lives on welfare. So, what you're ultimately doing (knowingly or not) is making a class distinction and saying fuck poor people or those that might have made some very bad decisions in life and want to change. How is that fair?

[gregathit]

47 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Huh? Who goes to these schools? Never talked to anybody that has.

They exist and I think there should be more of them.  They fulfill a special need.

48 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Not an option for working parents- and most are I would think. Unless things have changed so much that kids get to stay home alone all day. They didn't when I was growing up. But, I could totally get into a personal tutor or hot baby sitter even now! 

I'll have to agree with the hot baby sitter part, but not the rest.  The working parent(s) kids are generally not the problem.  Look at the statistics.

 

49 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Cold and impersonal. Also offers no role models maybe like a teacher would. The students also miss out on learning some valuable life skills in a school (or work) environment. Also does not encourage social engagement in a structured, responsible setting.

For parents that refuse to get off their ass and get involved in their child's life........I have zero fucks to give.

As to the social bullshit stigma about home schools........nope.  Millions are doing it and they are turning out just fine.  Turns out that the social nonsense of other kids isn't particularly helpful.  I know several home-schooled folks and you'd never know they were.  Again, the statistics bear this out.  

52 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Yeah, every kid dreams of being Joe Builder. 

Versus what?  Why shouldn't they?  A living is a living.  A job that pays the bills and has some left over for hobbies is nothing to sneer at.  You can choose other professions.  I'm not pushing one way or another.  I just happen to know that there are openings in construction.  Lots of them.

 

54 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

There are very harsh penalties for that shit. It's called the penitentiary. You're prospects there are shank or be shanked or be somebodies bitch. If you survive that intact, then you will attend thuggery and thievery 101 and advance. You will be released with a record and nobody will hire you hardly since most employers want impeccable credentials for any decent well-paying job.

Except that many of these folks are back on the street, often faster than you or I can get an oil change.  I do agree that prison needs some reform.  I would like to see the non-violent criminals be trained in a trade school.  Give tax incentives to business to partner with them.  That way they can get out and have a option to be a productive member of society.  I do believe in second chances.  For the violent offenders, fuck them.  Killers should be killed.  Done is done.  

 

Oh, and construction hires folks with a record.  A lot of them.  And you can make a decent living. 

 

58 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

All in all, I still think the public school systems still provide a valuable service to the communities. You know all these alternatives because you are older and more world savvy. The average poor kid has no idea and is going to try to emulate the first thing he/she sees- like maybe the deadbeat drug addict father that rotates in and out of prison or the drug addict mother that lives on welfare. So, what you're ultimately doing (knowingly or not) is making a class distinction and saying fuck poor people or those that might have made some very bad decisions in life and want to change. How is that fair?

Wrong on every account except me being older.  I was dirt poor as a kid.  We dumpster dived for cans to get money for school clothes and presents.  The difference is both my parents invested in their future (and mine) by getting an education and bettering their lives.  I just don't see that public schools in their current form can be salvaged.  I think, that like the post office, they are going to whither and die.  Education, especially grade school, is critical for all children, rich or poor.  We will have to come up with an alternate(s) if public education continues to slide or dies.  I don't know what it will be.  Technology may help solve this issue.

 

As to the drug addict mother on welfare.........what the fuck is she still doing with kids in the home?  This right here is bullshit.  If she can't get her own life right, what the fuck is she doing with kids.  Do everyone a favor and get those kids out of there and into a family that will treat them with dignity and respect.

[27X]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Huh? Who goes to these schools? Never talked to anybody that has.

People that want to retire at 37 with a full officer's pension and then start a business or whatever with the rest of their life or someone that wants to be lifelong military. Or someone that is tired of their kid's bullshit and wants to instill the literal fear of god into them.

[Kaldor Draigo]

the BLM movement they are a bunch of racists and they want till kill all white people and in doing that will incite a race war and that pisses me off and we dont need that

[KoolHndLuke]

4 hours ago, 27X said:

People that want to retire at 37 with a full officer's pension and then start a business or whatever with the rest of their life or someone that wants to be lifelong military. Or someone that is tired of their kid's bullshit and wants to instill the literal fear of god into them.

I think military service should be mandatory for all able bodied young adults. 6-13 weeks of boot camp will straighten a lot of them out to begin with. The prospect of (possibly) going to war in a short time will sober anybody up.

[GrimReaper]

4 hours ago, HUNK RE2 said:

the BLM movement they are a bunch of racists and they want till kill all white people and in doing that will incite a race war and that pisses me off and we dont need that

No, they're simply fighting for apartheid 2.0 but I'm pretty sure they aren't quite aware of that.