Laura Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Kimy said: It is? oO I found it while searching for gags in the console. I spawned the whole set after that because I was curious. I'm 99% sure I didn't install MaikCG's mod.
Reesewow Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said: I found it while searching for gags in the console. I spawned the whole set after that because I was curious. I'm 99% sure I didn't install MaikCG's mod. May want to double-check the item ID code matches DD - the item set is also included in other mods like Whiterun Brothel.
Laura Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, Reesewow said: May want to double-check the item ID code matches DD - the item set is also included in other mods like Whiterun Brothel. I will when I'm on my Skyrim pc again. I don't have Whiterun Brothel by the way.
darkon74slayer Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 Anyone know if this mod is randomly adding collars to NPCs?
LazyBoot Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, darkon74slayer said: Anyone know if this mod is randomly adding collars to NPCs? I think DFW does that, but I'm not sure, assuming you mean to random npcs. EDIT: Nvm I remembered wrong, Sexual Fame was the one I was thinking of that does that.
valcon767 Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, darkon74slayer said: Anyone know if this mod is randomly adding collars to NPCs? this mod should not be adding collars to random NPCs. some mods that can do this For The Masses DDMDQ (Devious Devices More Devious Quests) Sexlab Sexual Fame and i am sure there are more.
darkon74slayer Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, valcon767 said: this mod should not be adding collars to random NPCs. some mods that can do this For The Masses DDMDQ (Devious Devices More Devious Quests) Sexlab Sexual Fame and i am sure there are more. If sexual fame is doing it is there a way to shut that off that you might no about?
LazyBoot Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, darkon74slayer said: If sexual fame is doing it is there a way to shut that off that you might no about? Should be somewhere in the config menu.
Laura Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Kimy said: It is? oO False alarm. The dwemer stuff came with the City Bondage mod. Not from the DD beta. I didn't check the load order. My fault.
jbezorg Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said: MaikCG's Dwarven Cuirass is already in the DD beta. So I assume there is something planned for it. This is what happens when a "short break" turns into a few years. LOL. 1
orochi2k Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 Hello I got constant crash after I move to another zone and after debug information shows a few devices are equipped onto bound girl. Papyrus.0 shows things as below: I am not sure if it's a bug in the mod(Bound Girl not loaded.) or I got some conflicts with other mods. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:15AM] [Zad]: RepopulateNpcs() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:15AM] SLKR: One hour passes. Checking ... [05/26/2018 - 04:20:15AM] warning: Property ZazAPCAO104 on script CDxMastersHarness attached to Item 1 in container (3200E35D) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property [05/26/2018 - 04:20:15AM] [Zad]: ZadNpc::OnUpdateGameTime() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:15AM] [Zad]: Waiting, since NPC Events is currently processing. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:15AM] SLKR: Walled city [05/26/2018 - 04:20:15AM] [Zad]: ZadNpc::DoRegister(1.499979) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:15AM] [Zad]: Finished processing events. Re-Polling.. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:16AM] [Zad]: CheckAllEvents() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] Error: (0004584F): Does not have face animation data, and therefore cannot have their expression o. stack: [ (0004584F)].Actor.ClearExpressionOverride() - "<native>" Line ? [alias ActorAlias003 on quest SexLabThread00 (08061EEF)].sslActorAlias.RestoreActorDefaults() - "sslActorAlias.psc" Line 888 [alias ActorAlias003 on quest SexLabThread00 (08061EEF)].sslActorAlias.initialize() - "sslActorAlias.psc" Line ? [alias ActorAlias003 on quest SexLabThread00 (08061EEF)].sslActorAlias.ClearAlias() - "sslActorAlias.psc" Line 190 [SexLabThread00 (08061EEF)].sslThreadModel.initialize() - "sslThreadModel.psc" Line 1295 [SexLabThread00 (08061EEF)].sslthreadcontroller.initialize() - "sslThreadController.psc" Line 759 [SexLabThread00 (08061EEF)].sslthreadcontroller.OnUpdate() - "sslThreadController.psc" Line ? [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] SEXLAB - Thread[0] - Returning to thread pool... [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] [DCUR] Periodical update starts [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] [DCUR] Hourly events processing [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] [DCUR] Rare periodic events processing [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] Error: Property HardcoreEffects not found on zadconfig. Aborting call and returning None stack: [alias PlayerEventAlias on quest WD_AliasQuest (5D015608)].WD_eventWornVibrate.Filter() - "WD_eventWornVibrate.psc" Line 16 [zadEventsQuest (0D03E3F3)].zadeventslots.CheckAllEvents() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line 79 [zadEventsQuest (0D03E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line 152 [zadEventsQuest (0D03E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line 157 [zadEventsQuest (0D03E3F3)].zadeventslots.OnUpdateGameTime() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line 138 [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] warning: Assigning None to a non-object variable named "::temp5" stack: [alias PlayerEventAlias on quest WD_AliasQuest (5D015608)].WD_eventWornVibrate.Filter() - "WD_eventWornVibrate.psc" Line 16 [zadEventsQuest (0D03E3F3)].zadeventslots.CheckAllEvents() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line 79 [zadEventsQuest (0D03E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line 152 [zadEventsQuest (0D03E3F3)].zadeventslots.UpdateGlobalEvent() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line 157 [zadEventsQuest (0D03E3F3)].zadeventslots.OnUpdateGameTime() - "zadEventSlots.psc" Line 138 [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] [Zad]: Config Interval:1.500000. Total number of events: 0. Next staggered update in 1.500000 [05/26/2018 - 04:20:17AM] [DCUR] Clearing surrendered NPCs [05/26/2018 - 04:20:18AM] [DCUR] Scanning for followers [05/26/2018 - 04:20:18AM] SLKR: 1 nearby NPCs [05/26/2018 - 04:20:18AM] SLKR: Calculated chance is -48% [05/26/2018 - 04:20:18AM] [DCUR] Currently there are 12 bound girls active. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:18AM] [DCUR] - Spawning bound girl at location: 22 [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: OnEquipped(Bound Girl: Aradia Strap Ball Gag) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: No menus are open. Equipping silently. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: Sending device event DeviceEquippedGag(Bound Girl:0) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: Syncing for actor Bound Girl. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: SyncInventory(): Npc is equipping Gag. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: SyncInventory(): Equipping Gag. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: RepopulateNpcs() is already processing. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: OnEquipped(Bound Girl: Steel Shackles) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: No menus are open. Equipping silently. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: OnEquipped(Bound Girl: Black Ebonite Restrictive Boots) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: No menus are open. Equipping silently. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:19AM] [Zad]: Sending device event DeviceEquippedShackles(Bound Girl:0) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: OnEquipped(Bound Girl: Plug (Filled Soulgem) (Vaginal)) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: No menus are open. Equipping silently. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: Syncing for actor Bound Girl. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: SyncInventory(): Npc is equipping Shackles. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: SyncInventory(): Equipping Shackles. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: RepopulateNpcs() is already processing. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: EvaluateAA([Actor < (FF000BAE)>]) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: UpdateControls() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: EvaluateAA: Applying animSet = 0, animState = 0 [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: Sending device event DeviceEquippedBallet Boots(Bound Girl:0) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: OnEquipped(Bound Girl: Plug (Grand Soulgem) (Anal)) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: No menus are open. Equipping silently. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged() [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] [Zad]: Sending device event DeviceEquippedVaginal Plug(Bound Girl:0) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:20AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: Syncing for actor Bound Girl. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: Syncing for actor Bound Girl. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: SyncInventory(): Npc is equipping Vaginal Plug. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: OnEquipped(Bound Girl: Steel Chastity Belt (Padded)) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: SyncInventory(): Npc is equipping Ballet Boots. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: No menus are open. Equipping silently. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: Sending device event DeviceEquippedAnal Plug(Bound Girl:0) [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: SyncInventory(): Equipping Vaginal Plug. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: SyncInventory(): Equipping Ballet Boots. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] [Zad]: RepopulateNpcs() is already processing. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] FNIS aa SetAnimGroup mod: DeviousDevices actor: Bound Girl not loaded. [05/26/2018 - 04:20:21AM] Error: (FF000BAE): cannot find variable named FNIS_abc_h2h_LocomotionPose. stack: [ (FF000BAE)].Actor.SetAnimationVariableInt() - "<native>" Line ? [zadQuest (0D00F624)].zadboundcombatscript.ClearAA() - "zadBoundCombatScript.psc" Line 270 [zadQuest (0D00F624)].zadboundcombatscript.EvaluateAA() - "zadBoundCombatScript.psc" Line 209 [zadQuest (0D00F624)].zadlibs.StartBoundEffects() - "zadLibs.psc" Line 2948 [Item 2 in container (FF000BAE)].zadequipscript.OnEquipped() - "zadEquipScript.psc" Line 213
Nazzzgul666 Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 I have some requests/ideas: The description says "Sasha will react differently to you depending on how you treat her." I wish that would be more true, at least i don't think it is yet. I.e.: she remembers how you treat her, and treats you accordingly when she has the upperhand. That means: -she remembers the items you equip on her (and maybe how often). She will use the same items on you (and avoid others, maybe not completly but much less likely). - she remembers if you whore her out (often) and does the same to you (often)! - she remembers if you plug her (often) and if you use the remote control (often) and does the same to you (always :D)!
LazyBoot Posted May 25, 2018 Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Nazzzgul666 said: I have some requests/ideas: The description says "Sasha will react differently to you depending on how you treat her." I wish that would be more true, at least i don't think it is yet. I.e.: she remembers how you treat her, and treats you accordingly when she has the upperhand. That means: -she remembers the items you equip on her (and maybe how often). She will use the same items on you (and avoid others, maybe not completly but much less likely). - she remembers if you whore her out (often) and does the same to you (often)! - she remembers if you plug her (often) and if you use the remote control (often) and does the same to you (always :D)! I think I've seen some code related to disposition while poking around it. But not sure if it's used somewhere or just tracked. PS, use ctrl+shift+V to paste without formatting, or click the button that pops up on the bottom of the editor after pasting.
Lupine00 Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said: I have some requests/ideas: The description says "Sasha will react differently to you depending on how you treat her." I wish that would be more true, at least i don't think it is yet. I.e.: she remembers how you treat her, and treats you accordingly when she has the upperhand. That means: -she remembers the items you equip on her (and maybe how often). She will use the same items on you (and avoid others, maybe not completly but much less likely). - she remembers if you whore her out (often) and does the same to you (often)! - she remembers if you plug her (often) and if you use the remote control (often) and does the same to you (always :D)! If you may recall, I posted at some interminable length on this in the past, maybe three times But re-raising this topic brings up something that's been troubling me since day 1... DCL has the advantage of combining a lot of functionality, so it can all work together properly: Rape Device Comments - that can lead to devices or rape or robbery Misogyny - that can lead to non-rape-sex or devices Sleep rape Device removal dialogues - that can lead to mini quests, more devices, robbery, etc. Blackout traps - that can lead to ... and so on Combat defeat - that leads to ... etc Bondage dialog where you can (sometimes) put devices on NPCs and have them react to it Dominant follower, who puts devices, wants sex, etc. Sasha, who combines dominant follower and submissive follower Solicitation ... say no more By design, DCL has an opportunity that other mods don't. SL Adventures can't do all these things, and it's may never do so - though it has ambitions... The downside of this is that DCL doesn't retain any context for these interactions, and treats every interaction as if there's no history. This turns each NPC into a random slot-machine. While Kimy said that the NPCs are always available to play bondage games with you... But they aren't always fun games because you're not playing with characters, you're playing with slot machines. Now, it might be asking a bit much to expect DCL to assign a personality to every NPC in the game, and track what they did, but it could do more to avoid the following kinds of interaction (I know this is getting TLDNR, stick with me). Player walks up to NPC, not wearing devices, intending to give NPC an item retrieved for a quest. Gets raped by the NPC. Devices are added. Talks to NPC, like nothing happened. NPC makes a derogatory device comment about how the PC is a slave and asks who put devices on her. (But he put them on her. WTF!) Talks to NPC again. NPC provides friendly vanilla greeting, now he's chatting about Blacksmithing, like he's not a sexist rapist. PC asks NPC about devices. NPC makes a pitying remark and gives a useless key (that they should know very well is useless). OR Player walks up to NPC, not wearing devices. PC talks to NPC. NPC demands sex. PC refuses and is bound in really horrible restraints as a result, despite the fact she could easily kill this shopkeeper with her bare hands, without breaking a sweat. PC talks to NPC. NPC makes crude comment, saying he'd have sex with her if she weren't in a chastity belt (THAT HE PUT ON HER). PC talks to NPC. NPC provides friendly vanilla greeting and does a bit of bartering. Much money changes hands. PC talks to NPC about devices. NPC expresses bafflement at the devices. Really, it could not be more atmosphere destroying, or less immersive, for these NPCs to bounce from vanilla helpful dialogs, or helpful device removal, to raping and adding devices, or screaming at you for being a beggar because you need to eat after they gagged you. Mitigating this doesn't require a heavy solution that tracks everything. And, of course, the functionality should all be optional, because DCL is like that. (1) Track recent rapists. I think this is most important. If a character rapes you, it should mean something. Recent rapists won't remove any devices. Recent rapists should have a blocking dialog so you can't trade, or complete quests with them. This will be annoying, but TBH, less annoying than being locked in a pet suit. Talking to them at all should either get you raped again, or more devices. You should be genuinely afraid of messing with these people. Recent rapists should be kept in a short list of aliases, first-in-first-out, and should be aged out according to a time setting, possibly with some randomness so you'renever quite sure if it's safe to talk to a recent rapist. Times could range from an hour to a week. (2) Track people who recently helped you. If an NPC helps you remove devices, they should go in a FIFO tracking list with an expiry time, like rapists, and they should be blocked from misogyny or rape while they're in it. (3) Put NPCs in categories based on job, gender, etc. Guards already get special treatment. Innkeepers already get some special treatment. Extend the special treatment, and also consider shopkeepers, blacksmiths, alchemists, slavers, uniques vs generics, and NPCs that have relationship reasons to like or dislike you. Your spouse should behave differently to Belethor. NPCs could be procedurally tested for like/dislike, as Skyrim already supports this to a sufficient extent. This could be enhanced with information from their job, in some cases. Some NPCs are special. Some shopkeepers are "cranky", such as Neurelion and that annoying armor trainer in Riften (I forget her name). As there are no more than half-a-dozen cranky vendors, they could go in a special list, for special treatment. Belethor seems unique at first glance, but any code designed for sleazy slavers would also work for him. This would involve filtering the device comments a bit more, so they're a bit more on appropriate. NPCs that like/respect you shouldn't punish you for refusing misogyny (though this may not be obvious until you try). NPCs that like/respect you shouldn't put devices on you. A spouse might be an exception to this, but I think that's a special case and require a lot more attention. NPCs that dislike you should never help with devices, and should more often add them or choose stronger responses. NPCs that dislike you should be more likely to try misogyny and react aggressively to refusals. (4) Track player actions. If the PC does a lot of trade with an NPC, they should notice. Such NPCs should be made more friendly, and thus (3) above will make them act better towards the NPC. If you help an NPC, they should remember, and maybe not rape you for it. Recent rapists should be impossible to solicit (see rapist dialog limitations above). Failed (or successful) solicitations should be tracked for a while, like rapes and help. If the PC solicits an NPC and succeeds, there should be a cool-off where the NPC won't discuss solicitation for a while. If the PC solicits an NPC and fails, there should be dependable consequences for trying again quickly. If the PC solicits an NPC and fails, they should reliably be rejected, even if not punished until the NPC is out of the tracking list. Also, an NPC who paid you for sex shouldn't be able to rape you while tracked. It makes no sense to pay and then rape. Ideally, repeated solicitation of an NPC would put them in a special list, like something from eager NPCs, so they are easier to solicit in future. 3
WaxenFigure Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 45 minutes ago, Lupine00 said: If you may recall, I posted at some interminable length on this in the past, maybe three times But re-raising this topic brings up something that's been troubling me since day 1... Spoiler DCL has the advantage of combining a lot of functionality, so it can all work together properly: Rape Device Comments - that can lead to devices or rape or robbery Misogyny - that can lead to non-rape-sex or devices Sleep rape Device removal dialogues - that can lead to mini quests, more devices, robbery, etc. Blackout traps - that can lead to ... and so on Combat defeat - that leads to ... etc Bondage dialog where you can (sometimes) put devices on NPCs and have them react to it Dominant follower, who puts devices, wants sex, etc. Sasha, who combines dominant follower and submissive follower Solicitation ... say no more By design, DCL has an opportunity that other mods don't. SL Adventures can't do all these things, and it's may never do so - though it has ambitions... The downside of this is that DCL doesn't retain any context for these interactions, and treats every interaction as if there's no history. This turns each NPC into a random slot-machine. While Kimy said that the NPCs are always available to play bondage games with you... But they aren't always fun games because you're not playing with characters, you're playing with slot machines. Now, it might be asking a bit much to expect DCL to assign a personality to every NPC in the game, and track what they did, but it could do more to avoid the following kinds of interaction (I know this is getting TLDNR, stick with me). Player walks up to NPC, not wearing devices, intending to give NPC an item retrieved for a quest. Gets raped by the NPC. Devices are added. Talks to NPC, like nothing happened. NPC makes a derogatory device comment about how the PC is a slave and asks who put devices on her. (But he put them on her. WTF!) Talks to NPC again. NPC provides friendly vanilla greeting, now he's chatting about Blacksmithing, like he's not a sexist rapist. PC asks NPC about devices. NPC makes a pitying remark and gives a useless key (that they should know very well is useless). OR Player walks up to NPC, not wearing devices. PC talks to NPC. NPC demands sex. PC refuses and is bound in really horrible restraints as a result, despite the fact she could easily kill this shopkeeper with her bare hands, without breaking a sweat. PC talks to NPC. NPC makes crude comment, saying he'd have sex with her if she weren't in a chastity belt (THAT HE PUT ON HER). PC talks to NPC. NPC provides friendly vanilla greeting and does a bit of bartering. Much money changes hands. PC talks to NPC about devices. NPC expresses bafflement at the devices. Really, it could not be more atmosphere destroying, or less immersive, for these NPCs to bounce from vanilla helpful dialogs, or helpful device removal, to raping and adding devices, or screaming at you for being a beggar because you need to eat after they gagged you. Mitigating this doesn't require a heavy solution that tracks everything. And, of course, the functionality should all be optional, because DCL is like that. (1) Track recent rapists. I think this is most important. If a character rapes you, it should mean something. Recent rapists won't remove any devices. Recent rapists should have a blocking dialog so you can't trade, or complete quests with them. This will be annoying, but TBH, less annoying than being locked in a pet suit. Talking to them at all should either get you raped again, or more devices. You should be genuinely afraid of messing with these people. Recent rapists should be kept in a short list of aliases, first-in-first-out, and should be aged out according to a time setting, possibly with some randomness so you'renever quite sure if it's safe to talk to a recent rapist. Times could range from an hour to a week. (2) Track people who recently helped you. If an NPC helps you remove devices, they should go in a FIFO tracking list with an expiry time, like rapists, and they should be blocked from misogyny or rape while they're in it. (3) Put NPCs in categories based on job, gender, etc. Guards already get special treatment. Innkeepers already get some special treatment. Extend the special treatment, and also consider shopkeepers, blacksmiths, alchemists, slavers, uniques vs generics, and NPCs that have relationship reasons to like or dislike you. Your spouse should behave differently to Belethor. NPCs could be procedurally tested for like/dislike, as Skyrim already supports this to a sufficient extent. This could be enhanced with information from their job, in some cases. Some NPCs are special. Some shopkeepers are "cranky", such as Neurelion and that annoying armor trainer in Riften (I forget her name). As there are no more than half-a-dozen cranky vendors, they could go in a special list, for special treatment. Belethor seems unique at first glance, but any code designed for sleazy slavers would also work for him. This would involve filtering the device comments a bit more, so they're a bit more on appropriate. NPCs that like/respect you shouldn't punish you for refusing misogyny (though this may not be obvious until you try). NPCs that like/respect you shouldn't put devices on you. A spouse might be an exception to this, but I think that's a special case and require a lot more attention. NPCs that dislike you should never help with devices, and should more often add them or choose stronger responses. NPCs that dislike you should be more likely to try misogyny and react aggressively to refusals. (4) Track player actions. If the PC does a lot of trade with an NPC, they should notice. Such NPCs should be made more friendly, and thus (3) above will make them act better towards the NPC. If you help an NPC, they should remember, and maybe not rape you for it. Recent rapists should be impossible to solicit (see rapist dialog limitations above). Failed (or successful) solicitations should be tracked for a while, like rapes and help. If the PC solicits an NPC and succeeds, there should be a cool-off where the NPC won't discuss solicitation for a while. If the PC solicits an NPC and fails, there should be dependable consequences for trying again quickly. If the PC solicits an NPC and fails, they should reliably be rejected, even if not punished until the NPC is out of the tracking list. Also, an NPC who paid you for sex shouldn't be able to rape you while tracked. It makes no sense to pay and then rape. Ideally, repeated solicitation of an NPC would put them in a special list, like something from eager NPCs, so they are easier to solicit in future. All good thoughts but what an NPC will do should also depend on their Relationship rank towards you. Those who hate you should obviously heavily lean toward raping you while one of your lovers ought to predisposed to help you. With the likelihood of either being pretty much the same when talking to someone who is neutral.
Lupine00 Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 5 hours ago, WaxenFigure said: All good thoughts but what an NPC will do should also depend on their Relationship rank towards you. Yup, that's exactly what I said. 5 hours ago, Lupine00 said: NPCs could be procedurally tested for like/dislike, as Skyrim already supports this to a sufficient extent. "Sufficient" meaning there is already enough support in the game to tell how an NPC feels towards you, including spouse relationship rank. We all know about relationship ranks, so I didn't drag it out, but faction membership is also relevent, in that it can provide supplemental information.
DonQuiWho Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Lupine00 said: Yup, that's exactly what I said. "Sufficient" meaning there is already enough support in the game to tell how an NPC feels towards you, including spouse relationship rank. We all know about relationship ranks, so I didn't drag it out, but faction membership is also relevent, in that it can provide supplemental information. I don't pretend to have any real tech expertise at all But generally, OOIC, how do you determine WHICH mod last set the relationship rank? If it was something other than DCL, aren't you still going to get emotional ping pong? Vice versa for the other mod too. Or are you thinking DCL has its own whole new set of variables? And how do they then reflect the fact that some other mod has set the NPC to love or hate you?
Lupine00 Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 13 minutes ago, donkeywho said: But generally, OOIC, how do you determine WHICH mod last set the relationship rank? If it was something other than DCL, aren't you still going to get emotional ping pong? Vice versa for the other mod too. Or are you thinking DCL has its own whole new set of variables? And how do they then reflect the fact that some other mod has set the NPC to love or hate you? I wasn't suggesting that DCL should change relationship ranks, rather it should reflect them. The specific mechanics I proposed for tracking recent actions are supposed to sit on top of ranks and prevent the self-contradictory behaviour that results from context-free random outcomes. So, yes, DCL would have its own new set of variables, which are absolutely NOT for every NPC, but rather for the last X NPCs that did a particular important thing you want to remember. Those variables, let's call them alias properties, (I got told off for using aliases as short-hand for this) might live in an array that functions as a FIFO, with a matching array of expiry times. Even if an NPC isn't pushed out by more recent actions, they expire out eventually. Realistically, tracking about eight events of each kind (rape, help, solicited-ok, solicited-fail) would be enough. But this is just a thought experiment... Kimy might say, "I like randomness, your ideas are bad," or "I don't like randomness, but I don't think it matters," or "I don't like randomness, but I intend to prevent it in a way I prefer, that happens to resemble that proposal in no way whatsoever," or another thing entirely, such as nothing at all.
DonQuiWho Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Lupine00 said: I wasn't suggesting that DCL should change relationship ranks, rather it should reflect them. The specific mechanics I proposed for tracking recent actions are supposed to sit on top of ranks and prevent the self-contradictory behaviour that results from context-free random outcomes. So, yes, DCL has its own new set of variables, which are absolutely NOT for every NPC, but rather for the last X NPCs that did a particular important thing you want to remember. Those variables, let's call them alias properties, might live in an array that functions as a FIFO, with a matching array of expiry times. Even if an NPC isn't pushed out by more recent actions, they expire out eventually. Realistically, tracking about eight events of each kind (rape, help, solicited-ok, solicited-fail) would be enough. But this is just a thought experiment... Kimy might say, "I like randomness, your ideas are bad," or "I don't like randomness, but I don't think it matters," or "I don't like randomness, but I intend to prevent it in a way I prefer, that happens to resemble that proposal in no way whatsoever," or another thing entirely, such as nothing at all. OK Thanks Right now, another Kimy option may be 'I have bigger fish to fry' LOL
Lupine00 Posted May 26, 2018 Posted May 26, 2018 1 hour ago, donkeywho said: Right now, another Kimy option may be 'I have bigger fish to fry' LOL Haha. I think this is a pretty big fish, but it's a thing with software... Adding shiny new features always trumps polishing up old ones, both from a development and marketing perspective. I can't really contribute on Patreon because of the lame way it demands you subscribe... Well, maybe I'll think of a way around that... But that means I'm not party to the secret hints about where the focus will be. But... The obvious big areas are: Sasha + possible dominant follower enhancement New quests from Dollmaker. Reworked Damsel in Distress - almost certainly quests with Pet Suit, and DiD might get the suit. Expanding Dollmaker's shop and possibly adding Dollmaker as a kind of mistress who isn't a follower. Overhaul of combat defeat, particularly the consequences part. Completely new quests without a Dollmaker tie in, possibly an equivalent to RubberDoll for the Pet Suit. So, logically, it's got to be some or all of these. I'd put money on Sasha and Dollmaker quests getting some love, and Damsel in Distress is a long-running niggle that is very likely to get attention. Combat Defeat is a strong maybe. The Pet Suit will get into a quest for sure (though I think maybe the animation speed is not right yet). Given what SL Adventures is doing, I wouldn't be surprised if some small bells and whistles were added to rape, device comments, and bondage dialog.
Lupine00 Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 I thought that perhaps it was just my setup before, but playing Dollmaker's advertising "quest" in 6.4, I find the NPC reactions to you wearing the suit ... surprisingly moderate. Nobody even comments on it, except for regular device comments. When I took the quest on, my character was penniless, naked, and yoked, so it was quite convenient to get three DAMN boxes that had 1000 cash between them, and some other loot besides (not a single special outfit item though) - and I was certainly no worse off wearing the suit than being naked. In terms of "worth doing", it's got a decent reward, which is probably well balanced against the pain (which isn't much) but I can imagine a more hardcore version with a better reward ... maybe after you've done it once already? 1
Code Serpent Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 On 5/25/2018 at 8:29 PM, Lupine00 said: This turns each NPC into a random slot-machine. This is something that's bugged me with this mod as well. I've even gone so far as to make my own xEdit patch to add conditions to most of the dialogue lines so there is some consistency. In addition to Morality and Relationships, I also used the character's voice type, so that Mysogony lines only come from guards, and old, cranky, or condescending men, Dom lines come from some other voice types, Sub from a few others, and the virtuous "you should go to jail for behaving like that" lines coming from the rest. It does reduce the frequency of the events by a lot, but it makes it much more believable.
valcon767 Posted May 27, 2018 Posted May 27, 2018 On 5/25/2018 at 8:29 PM, Lupine00 said: If you may recall, I posted at some interminable length on this in the past, maybe three times This turns each NPC into a random slot-machine. While Kimy said that the NPCs are always available to play bondage games with you... But they aren't always fun games because you're not playing with characters, you're playing with slot machines. nod nod ... this can be sooooo frustrating at time (example in spoiler) at start Player is not in any DD items went to Markarth recently Player is already Blood-kin to orcs talk to Moth (Orc blacksmith inside Understone Keep), wanted to do some trading Moth demands sex, comply talk to Moth again get quest for daedra heart (Coated in Blood), took this as i had one on me and knew what he was going to want talk to Moth again choose (SLEN) dialogue due to arousal spiked Moth is now my friend talk to Moth again Moth demands sex again refused = got locked in Chastity devices talk to Moth again Moth comments about wanting sex but someone stuck me in Chastity (that was you you idiot) talk to Moth agian Moth makes comment about devices = add more devices talk to Moth again turn in daedra heart = get dwarven shield ;checked in console and at this point he is showing as relationship rank 4 (lover status). talk to Moth again Moth makes comment about me being naked and reports to guards (public indecency) talk to Moth again (still need to do trading) Moth comments about devices again = add more devices again (gagged this time) go thru gag-talk with Moth to talk to Moth again do trading with Moth (sold a bunch of dwarven junk) go thru gag-talk with Moth to talk to him Moth binds my hands together go thru gag-talk with Moth regular dialogues go thru gag-talk with Moth (forgot to sell something) Moth give piercing removal tool gag-talk with Moth again Moth comments about devices (does not actually do anything this time, but ends conversation) gag-talk with Moth again sell rest of junk gag-talk with Moth again (i was curious if he was gonna do something yet again) regular random dialogue end converstaion guards arrive to arrest player for public indecencty pay off fine (well there went all the cash from selling junk and more) have follower remove gag go talk to Moth again Moth acts like nothing has happened at all left feeling like WTF ..... he should recognize that something happened
Lupine00 Posted May 28, 2018 Posted May 28, 2018 17 hours ago, valcon767 said: nod nod ... this can be sooooo frustrating at time (example in spoiler) So funny. I had similar experiences many times. It seems that in DCL, good deeds are often punished I also still struggle to make sense of the idea of putting you in a chastity belt for refusing to have sex. But for some odd reason, in DCL-land, chastity belts often achieve the exact opposite of their apparent intended purpose ... for those that remember my lengthy experience with the three body-restraint-key belt of misogyny that makes everyone have sex with you. I found that with some other mods, belts actually stop rapes reliably, so getting belted can save a collared character from getting raped non-stop. However, in DCL, even with Attackers Strip Belts disabled, and Full Chastity Requires Gag disabled, you seem to get raped anyway. If they can't strip the belt, it plays the same "Zyn Licking" animation most of the time - which isn't even aggressive or gender appropriate. Seems to be a problem there. I think there are a few areas where the DCL MCM has got a bit convoluted with its options, and you still can't select obvious things you might want to happen. e.g. Instead of Attackers strip belts and Gag required for full chastity, we could have Belts prevent rape ... and full chastity should always prevent rape, that's a no-brainer. The attackers strip belts thing should probably be restricted to the one or two belts that are designed to be stripped, and doesn't really need an MCM option. If it were an option, it should also stop you removing the belt, and be "Everyone can remove belts except you" and then the only way out of a belt is to beg an NPC to remove it. (And we already have belts that can't be stripped by anyone too, like Queen Sarah's and Maiden's Shield, so the strip belts option really only impacts a narrow range of belts). Making it an MCM option makes it even more confusing when you get a belt where the attackers strip it despite the option. But that's just my take on it. Another slightly convoluted one is the box for single global event chance vs different changes for City, Wilderness and Dungeon. It's actually simpler just to have the three specific chances and do away with the tick box and other slider. And then there are options ... maybe somebody uses them ... like "Always force full set", this is kind of harsh and kind of monotonous. I think simply setting the minimum item count high enough would have the same effect? Or the tick boxes and scale numbers for each container type. It would be far simpler just to have a scale for EVERY item type that goes down to ZERO, and then every one of the tick boxes could go away. Or the event parameters, which are a weird menu group of diverse options that sit in contrast to the other items that get a page per item. These aren't really event parameters, they're device/mini-quest parameters, and they belong together with stuff like Rubber Doll Quest. DCL is ... large ... and complicated ... and it's grown organically, with people asking for particular features, which they often got, and so the menus probably have room for a little simplification. I think it would be possible to shave away a lot of items without losing a single bit of functionality, and in some cases change functionality to be easier to configure. This was done for DD ... maybe a bit too much ... and some things got put back in DD ... but it was the right idea, and it's settling out at a good point in DD... I hope. One of the great things about iNeed and Campfire is how much thought and attention went into their configuration options. There's just enough, and nothing unnecessary. Maybe, some people want more options from Frostfall, but the other two have it spot on. Alas, the heavy MCM of DCL presents a huge learning curve to new users. Unlike some mods, where the problem is the number of bugs, with DCL the problem is the number of options. Most forum questions are either about understanding the options, or somebody who didn't run Bodyslide. 1
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