Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[WaxenFigure]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The point I'm making is that the repetitive Bodyslide questions are a disproportionate amount of the technical problems raised on the forum, and always have been.

Stating the obvious - that people can get help with Bodyslide elsewhere, or that members can simply answer the questions - doesn't address the issue at all.

 

• The issue is that the majority of those questions were avoidable.
• Not only that, but the actual problems those people had were avoidable.
• And that means the apparent failures of DD/DCL they experienced after first installing and using them were also avoidable.

 

Do you really want people experiencing failures and asking questions for no real reason?

 

Saying that "People should learn to use Bodyslide" is a utopian position, detached from reality.

Simply wanting them to know better will never stop the problems these people have or the questions they ask.

 

Or... maybe people love answering these questions so much, they want people to keep asking them?

So build the base UNP and CBBE files and make your own download page for them.  That way all the DD team has to do is provide a link to those pre-built items. 

 

If it's important to you then rather than add to their work, help them in that way.

[CGi]

22 minutes ago, WaxenFigure said:

So build the base UNP and CBBE files and make your own download page for them.  That way all the DD team has to do is provide a link to those pre-built items. 

 

If it's important to you then rather than add to their work, help them in that way.

And then we get different questions in return, like "why is the body is clipping through the armor".
So i doubts that's a valid solution unless one pre-generates alot of versions and uploads gigabytes worth of data in multiple packages ...

and then we get questions like "which download is for which body" and "which download is for which variation of it".

i don't even want to start with BBP/TBBP and HDT. But a nice idea nontheless. ^^

 

i hijacked Kimy's thread ... ?

[CGi]

1 hour ago, Fenroo said:

How does one start the cursed collar and bound queen questlines?

The Bound Queen quests start as soon as you find and read the book "The Bound Queen" which has a chance to spawn in boss chests.

The cursed collar quest i can't really remember how to start, but i think there's an "activator" in Fort Greymoors prison.

[Fenroo]

9 minutes ago, CGi said:

The Bound Queen quests start as soon as you find and read the book "The Bound Queen" which has a chance to spawn in boss chests.

The cursed collar quest i can't really remember how to start, but i think there's an "activator" in Fort Greymoors prison.

Thank you CGI

[WaxenFigure]

4 hours ago, CGi said:

And then we get different questions in return, like "why is the body is clipping through the armor".
So i doubts that's a valid solution unless one pre-generates alot of versions and uploads gigabytes worth of data in multiple packages ...

and then we get questions like "which download is for which body" and "which download is for which variation of it".

i don't even want to start with BBP/TBBP and HDT. But a nice idea nontheless. ^^

 

i hijacked Kimy's thread ... ?

Add the generated body to the generated nifs. 

 

And people will find a way to misunderstand, misread or otherwise completely fuck up no matter how carefully you plan.  That's why most of these threads are so long in the first place.

[WaxenFigure]

4 hours ago, Fenroo said:

Thank you CGI

It's in the prison section on top of the small furniture just past the corner at the bottom where one bandit is standing near the dead troll on a table.

[CGi]

15 minutes ago, WaxenFigure said:

Add the generated body to the generated nifs. 

 

And people will find a way to misunderstand, misread or otherwise completely fuck up no matter how carefully you plan.  That's why most of these threads are so long in the first place.

But then the body is not the one the player wanted! OH NOOOES!

But you're ofc right so in the end we should leave stuff like this to the player.

We all had to learn and we all appricated some help so that's how it goes and what makes threads grow.

[Fenroo]

Another question, is queen Sarah items meant to be used/worn? I found the belt, should I put it on or would that be insane? No spoilers, simple yes or no would do...

[Reesewow]

2 minutes ago, Fenroo said:

Another question, is queen Sarah items meant to be used/worn? I found the belt, should I put it on or would that be insane? No spoilers, simple yes or no would do...

No, that sounds like a terrible idea.

[cweez]

So, I updated all my mods fairly recently but I've run into a compatability issue with Captured Dreams; specifically it doesn't support DD4. Since my two options are to either run DD4 and no CD, or go back to DD3 and have CD available, I'd rather do the latter.

 

Will the current version of DCL be ok with DD3? If not, what is the most recent version that will? And would it be possible to make it available as an unsupported compatibility option? I wouldn't expect updates to it, or even to receive help if I was having problems, but I don't want to be forced to choose between one or the other.

[Kimy]

I feel your pain, as CD used to be a staple in my own load order, and no longer can be. It's a shame not to see it updated, despite DD4 has been out for half a year now and updating from DD3 to DD4 isn't THAT difficult, and can largely be done semi-automatically using search/replace and TES5Edit. But alas, I cannot tell other modders to update or not to update their mods, so it is what it is.

 

Like pretty much all larger DD mods except CD and DD Equip, the newest version of Cursed Loot needs DD 4.0. The last version that supported DD3 was 6.2 if I am not mistaken. I have no plans to make older DCL versions available for download, but I don't mind another user sending you a copy, if someone still has it.

 

I fixed at least two dozen bugs between that version and the most recent one btw. YMMV, but obviously they are not fixed in 6.2, so I can't really recommend to still use that version.

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, CGi said:

So people asking questions are a problem now? i've not encountered many asking the same question twice, if they understood the answer the first time.
We all started somewhere and we shouldn't project our expectations onto others. BodySlide and the mods that use it became rather complex so for people who are new to this, most of this stuff will sound like rocket science and be pretty overwhelming. Expecting them to understand it just by following a random guide is wishfull thinking.

While this is true, it has scarcely any bearing on what I suggested.

 

I never suggested that asking questions in general is "wrong", though some people have elected to pretend I did.

 

But if lots of different people have to ask the same question, maybe that's a sign that something should be fixed to save a lot of avoidable pain?

 

If all your forum is growing with is the same "why is this broken" question, that's not a sign of a vibrant community, it's a canary that you have a broken product. (I don't mean the DCL forum... Try reading the Devious Regulations forum. It is 95% recurring questions about the same few bugs, which are repetitively answered with "Try a clean save", "I'll look into it" or "That shouldn't happen").

 

The main issue is that new players have been getting totally avoidable breakages, and are forced into a steep learning curve unnecessarily.

They are forced to engage with using Bodyslide, rather then its products.

Yet many experienced posters (sure, not all) act like these people are morons who should have read the front-page properly.

 

You don't need a guide if you don't have to use the tool, but someone that does want to use it will likely seek out a guide, perhaps multiple guides, and experiment and only then ask questions ... and those questions might even be asked in the correct place ... be it the Bodyslide forum, or the DD forum, or perhaps even, in rare cases, the DCL forum.

 

Don't make people use Bodyslide before they are ready to even understand what it is for.

 

Once somebody starts wanting to change their body setup away from default CBBE or UUNP, then they are probably aware they have to learn some things.  But people who simply install DD+DCL are not really aware of what the dependencies involve, and being told to "run Bodyslide" may mean as much to them as being told to massage their gazumpenflarp.

 

The secondary issue is that the forum gets threaded through with the same repetitive question, over and over, which is at best, simply creating noise in which interesting discussion or more difficult problems can be lost, and is somewhat boring, and at worst, ends up consuming time better spent on other things.

 

 

But maybe I've touched a nerve? Do some people really enjoy answering the same endlessly repeating question, and are some people really asking such questions as a way to enter the community. Are these questions just a kind of conversational glue?

 

If that's the case, I guess I'm wasting my time suggesting an actual fix for new DD/DCL users, who often seem to have a problem with missing meshes. I guess I was wrong. We shouldn't seek to fix things that are broken, because those breakages are wonderful and precious opportunities for people to seek help and join in with the joy that is LL forums.

[valcon767]

3 hours ago, Fenroo said:

Another question, is queen Sarah items meant to be used/worn? I found the belt, should I put it on or would that be insane? No spoilers, simple yes or no would do...

no do not do that, have patience grasshopper all will become clear in time. ?

2 hours ago, cweez said:

So, I updated all my mods fairly recently but I've run into a compatability issue with Captured Dreams; specifically it doesn't support DD4. Since my two options are to either run DD4 and no CD, or go back to DD3 and have CD available, I'd rather do the latter.

 

Will the current version of DCL be ok with DD3? If not, what is the most recent version that will? And would it be possible to make it available as an unsupported compatibility option? I wouldn't expect updates to it, or even to receive help if I was having problems, but I don't want to be forced to choose between one or the other.

the only parts of DDI/X 4.0 (or greater) that CD is not currently compatible with are the items that use the HeavyBondage Keyword (yokes, straightjackets, armbinders,

handuffs etc.)  as i have CD and DDI/X 4.1 dev builds running now it has not caused me any major issues (all issues were minor due to that change).

you may want to check the CD thread (if you have not) for more information on it.

 

[Guest]

@Lupine00 I don't really see a problem tbh so what if people ask questions at least they will come out with a better understanding of how to use these tools that are available too them. Now if everything was done for you then you wouldn't know how to do anything does making things easier equal better? I don't think so tbh alot of the interactions and fun i had was building and learning to use these tools to make my modding environment better. These people aren't customers so why shouldn't they at least give some extra effort and I am using extra very loosely as it only takes 5min and doing it the way it currently is is easier for the mod author.

 

 

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, WaxenFigure said:

So build the base UNP and CBBE files and make your own download page for them.  That way all the DD team has to do is provide a link to those pre-built items. 

 

If it's important to you then rather than add to their work, help them in that way.

I would. But nobody would ever find it. Unless it's on the same download menu as DD and DCL themselves, it's worthless.

 

In fact, even then it might fail. Simply asking people to choose CBBE or UUNP in the DD/DCL FOMODs would be asking too much of some users, because they're still at the stage where those names are just jumbles of letters. But it's better than nothing, and they get asked that anyway.

 

It's almost like you intentionally confused the difference between something that just happens for any user that downloads DD or DCL, and something they have to search through a dozen forums and twenty pages of google to find - assuming they know they need it - WHICH THEY DO NOT - that is the cause of the problem in the first place.

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Risamei said:

@Lupine00 I don't really see a problem tbh so what if people ask questions at least they will come out with a better understanding of how to use these tools that are available too them. Now if everything was done for you then you wouldn't know how to do anything does making things easier equal better? I don't think so tbh alot of the interactions and fun i had was building and learning to use these tools to make my modding environment better. These people aren't customers so why shouldn't they at least give some extra effort and I am using extra very loosely as it only takes 5min and doing it the way it currently is is easier for the mod author.

Of course easier is better. Are you arguing that knowledge is somehow morally superior regardless of its quality? That's nonsensical.

 

You might argue anyone is worse off if they don't know how to grow their own crops, or build a haystack, or a log cabin, or a clay-oven, or flint tools.

You might argue that we should all know how to write a rendering engine, or design an operating system from first-principles.

 

You're welcome to believe that, but it's not how society is built, or even what most people want.

 

If nobody ever needed to understand Bodyslide and could just magically adjust their body in game "out of the box" would we be worse off?

Nope. People would just use it and move on.

 

 

But I'm going to stop here, because this suggestion - which was about saving new users from pain - has been spuriously reframed as if I'm suggesting that people shouldn't be able to seek or get help on forums.

 

That was a BS straw man, that totally derailed discussion of the practicalities of the solution, and was clearly never what I was posting about, so people can stop arguing against that point because I never made it, and AFAICS, nobody else did either.

[Lupine00]

On 6/1/2018 at 11:12 AM, Destroyah340 said:

So who are valid NPCs that can be sold to the slave trader in Whiterun & how do I give them to him? Obviously Defeat's capture/sell function doesn't work with this & there's no description of him in the mod page or MCM

I think this is for people you capture using the NPC's surrender option in DCL Combat Defeat.

 

I've never once managed to make it work. Once an NPC surrenders I can't make them do anything.

 

Others have said they were able to, but that guards attacked them on entering Whiterun.

There's a faction for handling it, but it didn't work at some point, might work now.

 

In any case, it's somewhat impractical to expect to bring captured NPCs back to a city without putting a lot more mechanics around it than DCL offers.

 

Defeat's sacks are cheesy and silly, but they work. Of course, trying to sell a murderous necromancer you captured in Defeat will probably get you arrested, but that's a different issue.

[marymuir2]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Of course easier is better. Are you arguing that knowledge is somehow morally superior regardless of its quality? That's nonsensical.

 

You might argue anyone is worse off if they don't know how to grow their own crops, or build a haystack, or a log cabin, or a clay-oven, or flint tools.

You might argue that we should all know how to write a rendering engine, or design an operating system from first-principles.

 

You're welcome to believe that, but it's not how society is built, or even what most people want.

 

If nobody ever needed to understand Bodyslide and could just magically adjust their body in game "out of the box" would we be worse off?

Nope. People would just use it and move on.

 

 

But I'm going to stop here, because this suggestion - which was about saving new users from pain - has been spuriously reframed as if I'm suggesting that people shouldn't be able to seek or get help on forums.

 

That was a BS straw man, that totally derailed discussion of the practicalities of the solution, and was clearly never what I was posting about, so people can stop arguing against that point because I never made it, and AFAICS, nobody else did either.

I agree, easier is better.  Yes, I have learned to use Bodyslide, but only because I had to in order to customise my character and her outfits.  But it is still a pain in the rear to run that every time I add a new clothing/armor mod. And I only do the batch stuff, never got the hang of outlook studio.  If it were possible to do this easily in racemenu when I create my character, I would be ecstatic.  I would also be back ingame so much quicker.

There are numerous mods I've DLed from LL, started to play, hit some glitch, tried to fix it, but ended up abandoning the mod.  I gave up on this latest version of DCL on account of too many glitches and it ended up interfering with the fun.  I play FOR FUN. I don't play to learn programming.

I do appreciate the thousands of people who very kindly create these mods and share them with others.  But it's only fun for most of those "others" if the mod is easy to install and works as designed.

Just my two cents.

[special]

@Kimy

BUG REPORT

•  Once the Player completes a quest for the Dollmaker, after the Dollmaker removes any restraints or restrictive dresses etc, the Player's walk / run speed is not reset to normal and remains in a 'slowed' state.  My Player is stuck in a slowed state even after reload of the game.  I've had to use "player.forceav speedmult 100" to fix the issue.  Please ignore this one, it is caused by DDi / DDx 4.1 BETA

•  During "Rubber Arrears" quest, the Indebted NPC doesn't follow the Player when travelling back to the Dollmakers house, she just stands in the position they are teleported to during "Begin the Journey" scene.  I've had to use the "moveto Player" command to complete the quest because the NPC doesn't make it to the Dollmakers house in any situation (restrained or not).

Sorry if they have been reported already, this thread is so big now it's hard to keep up.


thanks,

[cweez]

10 hours ago, valcon767 said:

the only parts of DDI/X 4.0 (or greater) that CD is not currently compatible with are the items that use the HeavyBondage Keyword (yokes, straightjackets, armbinders,

handuffs etc.)  as i have CD and DDI/X 4.1 dev builds running now it has not caused me any major issues (all issues were minor due to that change).

you may want to check the CD thread (if you have not) for more information on it.

 

Huh, really? I kinda though that was the situation so I just disabled armbinders from DCL as a stopgap, but then I recently tried to get a DCL collar and belt removed through CD. I pay, in the top left corner all the 'removing' stuff comes up, but nothing actually gets removed, so I just chalked this down to the DDI/X version problem, but I guess not. I'll try and prepare a CD post and hope it isn't just shot down for running the wrong DDI/X version.

[Guest]

"Q: Will this mod ever support male player characters?
A: No. Blame it on me being lazy or on the general lack of interest of the LL community in DD support for males. It's also just fair, because the gaming industry is making me play guy characters in their games all the time and I don't like that either."

 

First off appreciate your work and everyone involved in all the work put into the DD series, but to be very forward about the statement " general lack of interest of the LL community in DD support for males" is a bullshit statement, its not "lack of interest", its lack of modders supporting more than one gender.( So people want to make a mod and use DD for a dependency for there mod so they have to go female only as well)

 

This not a bitch statement, its just calling BS, a lot of players are not given the choice to play anything but a female character because of the modders choice to only go one way with the mods.

 

Unfortunately I am unable to use this mod along with others as people have requested that I have DD hook into Radiant Prostitution/Gigolo, but I will not be able to do that do to the BS reasons of why it is not Male supported. "Blame it on me being lazy", ok that one I will give to you, modders get burnt out and that I do understand and agree with but "because the gaming industry is making me play guy characters in their games all the time and I don't like that either." that is a cop-out, and out of control of every modder and gamer on here.

 

With that said, again this was not meant to bash your work, because your work is great, and much appreciated, but using the "I will not support males because of some BS excuse" is exactly that..BS!

 

Just my two cents..I am sure I will get backlash or be called a racist or bigot for giving my opinion ..haha but oh well it needed to be said.

 

Hey its your mod, and your choices, but you miss out on a lot of people who would use it here and support your Patreon!

 

Have a great day.

 

[WaxenFigure]

12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I would. But nobody would ever find it. Unless it's on the same download menu as DD and DCL themselves, it's worthless.

 

In fact, even then it might fail. Simply asking people to choose CBBE or UUNP in the DD/DCL FOMODs would be asking too much of some users, because they're still at the stage where those names are just jumbles of letters. But it's better than nothing, and they get asked that anyway.

 

It's almost like you intentionally confused the difference between something that just happens for any user that downloads DD or DCL, and something they have to search through a dozen forums and twenty pages of google to find - assuming they know they need it - WHICH THEY DO NOT - that is the cause of the problem in the first place.

 

Your reply to my suggestion shows the problem in a nutshell though.

 

You didn't read the whole reply or didn't understand it.  I plainly said that if you generated this "prebuilt" set then the DD team could add those links.

 

The fact is that the information is present but people are in too much of a hurry to look for it and instead of going back and taking a second look to see what they missed, many will pop right in asking questions that already have answers they should have seen.

 

And I said "or didn't understand it" because sometimes you have to get into a mod and play some of it so you understand the mod a bit before what is provided in the original post becomes something that a complete outsider (i.e. a person newly downloading an interesting mod) will understand.

 

I do in fact appreciate your interest in fixing problems and your suggesting a fix.

 

I'm wondering though if we don't need a whole "Skyrim Adult Modding 101" tutorial somewhat like the STEP project that covers all the basics like getting SOS/SAM, Bodyslide, FNIS, Crash Fixes etc installed and set up as a base for playing adult mods.  That could then be referenced as a "make sure you understand and have done this" reference in most of these mods.

 

 

[fred200]

Modders make mods that they enjoy.

If your tastes run differently - go make a mod and share it with others of like tastes. Nothing stopping you - except inertia.

[Pfiffy]

7 minutes ago, -Caden- said:

"Q: Will this mod ever support male player characters?
A: No. Blame it on me being lazy or on the general lack of interest of the LL community in DD support for males. It's also just fair, because the gaming industry is making me play guy characters in their games all the time and I don't like that either."

 

First off appreciate your work and everyone involved in all the work put into the DD series, but to be very forward about the statement " general lack of interest of the LL community in DD support for males" is a bullshit statement, its not "lack of interest", its lack of modders supporting more than one gender.( So people want to make a mod and use DD for a dependency for there mod so they have to go female only as well)

 

This not a bitch statement, its just calling BS, a lot of players are not given the choice to play anything but a female character because of the modders choice to only go one way with the mods.

 

Unfortunately I am unable to use this mod along with others as people have requested that I have DD hook into Radiant Prostitution/Gigolo, but I will not be able to do that do to the BS reasons of why it is not Male supported. "Blame it on me being lazy", ok that one I will give to you, modders get burnt out and that I do understand and agree with but "because the gaming industry is making me play guy characters in their games all the time and I don't like that either." that is a cop-out, and out of control of every modder and gamer on here.

 

With that said, again this was not meant to bash your work, because your work is great, and much appreciated, but using the "I will not support males because of some BS excuse" is exactly that..BS!

 

Just my two cents..I am sure I will get backlash or be called a racist or bigot for giving my opinion ..haha but oh well it needed to be said.

 

Hey its your mod, and your choices, but you miss out on a lot of people who would use it here and support your Patreon!

 

Have a great day.

 

Wasn't there a DD for him?

[CGi]

13 minutes ago, -Caden- said:

"Q: Will this mod ever support male player characters?
A: No. Blame it on me being lazy or on the general lack of interest of the LL community in DD support for males. It's also just fair, because the gaming industry is making me play guy characters in their games all the time and I don't like that either."

i can always localize the mod so you can add your male dialogue, as you did in DF.

And as @Pfiffy said, there's always DD for him for the devices.
Speaking of DF... version 1.53 needs the male dialogue redone. i wasn't able to salvage enough between versions to re-apply it properly.