Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[ZoneTanIsLove]

4 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

Either turn off "device comments" or start wearing devices when talking to npcs.

It's basically that I'll start talking to an NPC and they'll basically demand to start fucking my character.

[LazyBoot]

23 minutes ago, ZoneTanIsLove said:

It's basically that I'll start talking to an NPC and they'll basically demand to start fucking my character.

Like I said, if you turn off "device comments" they will stop asking to tie you up.

But if you want to keep the comments, then the only other way is to wear devices.

[ZoneTanIsLove]

3 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

Like I said, if you turn off "device comments" they will stop asking to tie you up.

But if you want to keep the comments, then the only other way is to wear devices.

Okie, thanks!

[LucentShard]

12 hours ago, WaxenFigure said:

 

Then you are going to have to turn on Papyrus logging and provide the log file.

Not sure if I did this right but here is the Papyrus log.

Right at the bottom, it says
[DCUR] Rape event aborted: No fitting animations found. [04/16/2018 - 06:32:14PM]
 

Papyrus.0.log

[Lupine00]

16 hours ago, Kimy said:

I stopped using SD, so I need users to report issues to me, otherwise I am very unlikely to get aware of them. I got asked to add a direct path into SD from DCL's combat defeat a few times, and I might add that in the next version. I can achieve this using the same ModEvent trigger I already use for the "SD trap" that's already in DCL. I will also make sure that this outcome is used only if the player isn't yet wearing any quest devices and will remove generic ones before handing the player over to SD.

I don't know if you simply disable all DCL events if there's an SD+ collar, and re-enable if released, but that's probably about the safest thing?

Personally, if in an SD+ enslavement I manually turn of DCL events, and disable any other features I think might be a hazard based on the situation.

 

The SD+ problems mostly involve pre-existing state at the time of enslavement: items that you might be wearing that would tend to make SD+ slavery awkward, broken, lethal, or simply conflicting.

 

As you're likely aware, SD+ adds gags, yokes, and armbinders as punishments, so if those slots get blocked by a quest item, it can cause problems just like the collar.

 

I don't know what SD+ does right now when you have a DCL quest collar on and SD+ wants to enslave you, but what it did for me last time I made the mistake of letting that happen (under 6.1, around the end of last year) SD+ enslaved anyway, and behaved as if the DCL quest collar was its own, but when it got removed, it was if I was wearing a phantom SD+ collar that had no way to remove it because it didn't exactly exist.

 

 

I already mentioned struggles with surviving getting enslaved in SD+, if you're using DCL combat defeat. It doesn't really work well, or often, at all. I think I already covered why. It's not a bug, it's just DCL doing its own thing so you can't manually surrender in SD+.

 

SS often seems to hang trying to port you, either into the auction or out of it. I would imagine that's entirely an SS problem. SS also seems to have problems modifying factions sometimes, and may port you into the warlock scenario with the warlocks fully hostile, in which case you get murdered immediately, similarly with bandits, vampires, and so on. SS can spin this off as "script lag" and "installation problem" but I don't buy it. It's always particular scripts that lag whenever there is script lag. I rarely run many mods, and my computer is pushing the limits of the possible in terms of non-overclocked performance.

 

As for SS and followers, the follower gets ported to the auction with you, but isn't sold. If the follower is a DCL dominant follower, you'll still be wearing their irremovable gear. You need to FREE ME before you start the SS auction, or it ends badly. Not only are you left suck in items, the follower is confused. It's easy to forget to do FREE ME if you don't expect the follower to be there, or aren't thinking about items you might have on. If you start an SS auction with DCL items on, there will be problems that mostly revolve around you being stuck in restraints that probably shouldn't have been sold with you, which may well make your slavery impossible to escape, quickly fatal, or simply unsatisfactory.

 

Most of these issues are pretty obvious as soon as you're in a situation where it can happen, but the correct way to resolve them is unclear. While removing the items allows the game to move forward, it often seems like a cheap escape.

 

 

Most problems are in no way DCL specific, but any quest item that locks in place and can't be removed is a potential conflict waiting to happen. Mechanic designs that don't rely on that are always more interoperable than ones that do. DCL dominant follower items are a case in point here. The only benefit to making them impossible to remove is that you don't have to check to see if they've been removed. Making them escapable and checking would cause fewer conflicts and be more fun too. Then you could remove them and get in trouble for it.

 

 

Where it does get DCL specific is combat defeat. It's not possible for the player to fudge in their own outcome because there's no way to ask DCL-cd to simply pacify enemies and give you a window to manually surrender via SD+ or POP; nor does it support either of those outcomes directly. The unnecessary porting of SS causes problems of its own, and prevents "slavery in place" for SD+ defeats.

 

But that's not something broken in DCL, it's just something it doesn't set out to support. If there were direct SD+ support then that issue would vanish.

 

As for POP, and its occasional failure for guards to stop attacking when you're trying to surrender, is probably a POP+scriptlag problem, but it interacts with DCL-cd, and you get killed, health-refilled, killed, health-refilled on repeat, until the guards eventually pacify, or you manage to surrender or make an escape. Maybe DCL is trying to support POP, but it seems not to work reliably.

 

 

DCL needs to make a "call" with combat defeat. If you're wearing items, and it wants to send you to SS, it should strip the items. If the items are quest-flagged, or blocking, and can't be stripped, it should not send you to SS, but should pick another outcome. If it ever supports SD+ directly, the same applies. You should probably just get a wilderness dump instead.

 

Off topic, if you're wearing a corset+belt, and items are stripped, at the end, check for corset still present and try to strip it again. So many times I've ended up stuck in a quest corset that didn't strip properly, either from dominant follower, or LBA. Also happens with regular corsets, but with lighter consequences. In that case you aren't forced to FREE ME.

 

[Lupine00]

15 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

Absolutely, and it's precisely what I suggested as one of the people asking for it.

 

It's actually not a DCL problem, it's a defeat mod problem. DA is the only mod that can generally transfer a player to both SS and SD+, but it causes so many impossible-to-trace issues that I've permanently blacklisted it in my load order. SS does precisely what it's supposed to do, and can't by function be responsible for the player's state upon arrival because a player who should be ineligible should never be sent to SS in the first place.

 

Submit isn't actively developed; neither is Defeat. DA is right out, and Devious Surrender is only intermittently updated while also lacking the functionality to forward the player to other mods. I asked you if you'd be willing to add SD+ and device/quest device checks to DCL because... you actually have the only DA-like function that exists in an actively developed mod. Hell, it's even possible to turn off everything in DCL but  combat surrender and use it purely as a defeat mod. It doesn't hurt that combat surrender works really, really well.

 

Anyway, thanks again for this. It'll allow SS and SD+ to work the way they were intended, and that cuts out a lot of MCM and console work for the player (most of which new users would never know to do) while also allowing game events to flow more naturally.

This is very true.

 

I also think mods other than DCL need to make more effort. I don't agree that SS is blameless. It makes a decision to abandon responsibility, which is an easy path to take... For SS, but not for everyone else. SS could have had a path to deal with inappropriate sale items. It just doesn't.

 

Also, blocking items could be written to be interruptible, if authors wanted. I know it takes time, but once it's done the infrastructure is there.

 

And there are plenty of times that an item is made quest or blocking when it was not strictly necessary. I'm not looking particularly at DCL; it's a common pattern.

[Fenroo]

Kudos to the creator, this is a work of genius and my favorite Skyrim mod ever! 

I see other people making suggestions and requests and would like to include one as well.

Is there any way to indulge the fetish for orgasm denial? I've mostly been messing around with Sasha, and when my character is belted, sometimes Sasha will activate the vibrators and stop short of orgasmic bliss, and sometimes she pushes my character over the edge. Is there any way to change the percentages of this happening? Specifically to make it lower? Since it's super exciting to have a completely frustrated slave and a completely satisfied domme. Maybe she'll decline to ever remove the belt as well? 

Anyone have any other advice or input?

[Lupine00]

On a new topic. Some random ideas for combat defeat outcomes...

 

 

Sold to Orcs

 

You're ported to a random orc stronghold.

You start naked, wearing random devices, but none are special or high-security.

The orcs have all your stuff in a locked chest. You do not have the key.

Key is on the chief.

You can get the key by any practical means - theft, murder, console cheating, or any one of several "completion" criteria:

• The chief will let you have the key if you can beat him in a brawl. Might be hard, naked and in devices, or maybe not.
• The chief will let you have the key if you bring him 500 septims (at level 1, scales up).
• The chief will let you have the key after sex with you <random number> times (7 - 13 for example) - after which he decides you're no good for breeding good orc babies and gets rid of you.
• The chief will you have they key if you bring him a set of items, such as 5 bear pelts, or 10 sabre-cat pelts, or 10 frostbite venom, etc etc. as this convinces him you aren't just a useless animal, but a proper person, like an orc.

 

You're totally allowed to just run away, but then you lose all your stuff. (The orcs take some measures to stop your escape, whatever is convenient to implement, but nothing too difficult to overcome).

You never get your cash back, if you had any.

If you get caught stealing from the orcs you get devices as punishments (from a list with stuff like armbinder, yoke, slave boots, ankle chains, ring gag).

If you get caught stealing twice, you get a high security yoke, and your probable only escape is meeting the sex count.

You cannot use solicitation on anyone until you either get the key, or get to an inn. Stops you easily farming the orcs for cash and paying them off with it. This might simply be the result of a collar that strangely, only the chief's key, or an innkeeper can remove ... all innkeepers have a key for this collar ... because nonsense!

It's fine if you use solicitation in the inn to raise cash for the chief and then take it back to him, you just can't use it on orcs from the stronghold.

It's a safe container, and your stuff can sit there, potentially indefinitely.

The container eats all copies of the key when you open it.

The orc chief respawns with a key when the cell resets.

Just getting the key doesn't make the orcs remove any devices, that's your problem.

 

Optionally, instead of the collar, make it so solicitation simply isn't possible in orc strongholds. Which seems lore friendly.

 

 

 

The whore collar

 

You're ported to a random inn, from the short list of inns that actually have patrons.

There is nothing stopping you leaving the inn, or the town, except skill debuffs - see below.

The collar eats all your money to start with.

The collar needs to eat <amount> extra septims before it will unlock.

The collar only counts money you make from solicitation towards its unlock target, but all other money you earn (from selling to vendors for example) accumulates normally.

The collar feeds you food and drink whenever you earn money through solicitation.

The collar punishes you for wearing clothes, except for devices that lock, and certain non-magical, zero armor, dollmaker dresses.

The collar is highly arousing to the wearer and people nearby.

The collar inflicts a hefty penalty on various skills; the only skills not severely impaired are speech, alchemy, sneak, pickpocket and enchanting.

(Optionally collar will count money you steal with pickpocket towards its escape total too, because it's in genre).

The skill penalty is harsh enough to make most combat very dangerous and difficult, no matter your specialisation or gear.

 

If guards arrest you for public indecency, they know how to remove the collar while you are in prison, and put it back on you when you're due to be released.

If this happens, the target is reset, so you have to start over again.

[Kimy]

18 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

It's actually not a DCL problem, it's a defeat mod problem. DA is the only mod that can generally transfer a player to both SS and SD+,

No, it's not. I wrote DCL's combat surrender to be a replacement for DA, which I dumped from my load order for the exact same reason you did. DCL can perform hand-overs to both SD and SS, but as we discussed, there are issues. Honestly, I believe I can mitigate some of them by implementing better checks before handing players to these mods, but as long as DCL isn't used as the ONLY entry into either SS or SD, some issues will remain. There are some things that SS/SD would need to do on their own end as well, and I have no control over this.

18 hours ago, SkyAddiction said:

 

SS does precisely what it's supposed to do, and can't by function be responsible for the player's state upon arrival because a player who should be ineligible should never be sent to SS in the first place.

 

Well, some scenarios in SS would work with items in place, and some don't. I can easily prevent handovers to SS entirely, but then the player needs to make sure to disable SS/SD triggers in every other mod they installed. It would be much cleaner if SS did a check on its own and would just use the "somebody bought me to free me! path if the player if she is wearing quest devices. Again, it's out of my control, but that would be the clean solution.

[WaxenFigure]

6 hours ago, LucentShard said:

Not sure if I did this right but here is the Papyrus log.

Right at the bottom, it says
[DCUR] Rape event aborted: No fitting animations found. [04/16/2018 - 06:32:14PM]
 

Papyrus.0.log

 

Well then there's your answer.  Check the animations available in the Sexlab Framework, you may have disabled all the aggressive ones or something like that.

[SkyAddiction]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

No, it's not. I wrote DCL's combat surrender to be a replacement for DA, which I dumped from my load order for the exact same reason you did. DCL can perform hand-overs to both SD and SS, but as we discussed, there are issues. Honestly, I believe I can mitigate some of them by implementing better checks before handing players to these mods, but as long as DCL isn't used as the ONLY entry into either SS or SD, some issues will remain. There are some things that SS/SD would need to do on their own end as well, and I have no control over this.

Well, some scenarios in SS would work with items in place, and some don't. I can easily prevent handovers to SS entirely, but then the player needs to make sure to disable SS/SD triggers in every other mod they installed. It would be much cleaner if SS did a check on its own and would just use the "somebody bought me to free me! path if the player if she is wearing quest devices. Again, it's out of my control, but that would be the clean solution.

 

Yes, that's very much how I see it, though if there's at least one way to get a curated defeat system into my game I'm damn well taking it. It so completely alters the way I play the game, and in a good way, that I'd rather not do without if at all possible.

 

I didn't even know SS could just free you. I guess I don't lose enough fights.

[Code Serpent]

I just wanted to list a few of the bugs and consistency issues I've found recently, as well as a few small suggestions, and hope @Kimy will take a look at them for the next version after she finishes the awesome work she's doing with DDi 4.1

 

Bugs:

Spoiler

• Straitjackets and Dresses have a duplicate inventory item added when "Use Items From Inventory" is disabled
• The Gag Dialogue Response "Someone gagged you but forgot to tie your hands..." only occurs when the player is already restrained
• The player can be dragged out of bed even if no one around is trying to rape them, like if they're wearing full chastity items
• Events occasionally try to place straitjackets on the player when they are already wearing wrist restraints, prompting an error message

 

Consistency Issues:

Spoiler

• Bondage Items equipped while sleeping or from NPC events don't take into consideration the "Worn Restraints Threshold"
• Even if "Consistent Themes" is selected, multiple items equipped at once by NPCs are from different themes if the "Random" theme is selected, specifically from
• "A Little Bondage Adventure" directs the player to a random vendor, not the one that locked her up. A solution could be having only the DollMaker give this quest

 

Suggestions:

Spoiler

• Add Morality/Relationship checks to NPC actions, so the player's good friend stops calling them a slut when talking through a gag, and good Samaritans stop raping the player
• Add refined theme options for different areas or actions; eg Only Metal items drop in Bandit Camps, or only Rubber items are equipped from the Bondage Dreams event
• Split up the "Metal" theme into "Padded Metal" (The standard DDa padded steel items) and "Rustic Metal" (the rusted iron chains and cuffs from Heretic Resources)
• Add persistent NPC Dom/Sub preferences, so dialogue responses and actions aren't so random, especially with the Bondage Dialogue system. I think checking NPCs voice types is a good way to go about this, eg people sounding like Ysolda would often be submissive, while people sounding like Uthgerd would often be dominant

 

[El_Duderino]

6 hours ago, Kimy said:

Quote

SS does precisely what it's supposed to do, and can't by function be responsible for the player's state upon arrival because a player who should be ineligible should never be sent to SS in the first place.

 

Well, some scenarios in SS would work with items in place, and some don't. I can easily prevent handovers to SS entirely, but then the player needs to make sure to disable SS/SD triggers in every other mod they installed. It would be much cleaner if SS did a check on its own and would just use the "somebody bought me to free me! path if the player if she is wearing quest devices. Again, it's out of my control, but that would be the clean solution.

Actually, I think devices and SS have always been an issue. When being teleported into the cage before starting the auction, SS does a "unequipall" on the player and then equips a couple of ZazAP wrist and leg cuffs to bind the player. While DD's scripts catch the scripted unequip, the rendered items remain off and the inventory items have to be clicked (inspected) in the player's inventory to become visible again. And of course, the Zaz cuffs can conflict with worn DD's, so the player needs to get rid of those before doing anything else.

[Kimy]

Yeah, I hoped that SS's maintainer would fix this issue, but it has been in there for years now. Oh, well, I will just make sure not to pass a restrained character to SS anymore, so this will fix the issue as best as I can on DCL's end. If people use other mods to trigger SS, they need to disable those, or convince Jfraser to add a check for DD devices on SS's end (which can be done without having to hard link to it).

[LucentShard]

6 hours ago, WaxenFigure said:

 

Well then there's your answer.  Check the animations available in the Sexlab Framework, you may have disabled all the aggressive ones or something like that.

All the aggressive animations are enabled. It still did not work.
Perhaps Cursed Loot is not working with Sexlab at all?

 

 

[Reesewow]

18 minutes ago, LucentShard said:

All the aggressive animations are enabled. It still did not work.
Perhaps Cursed Loot is not working with Sexlab at all?

I think it is more likely that some of your MCM settings between Cursed Loot and Sexlab are filtering the available animations to the point that Cursed Loot can't find any.  You could try loosening up the restrictions and see if that will let an animation start. 

 

Examples to try :

- On the Rape tab in DCUL - disabling force lesbian animations, allowing all types of NPCs 

- In Sexab's MCM menu turn off Pre-Sex foreplay, Restrict Aggressive Animations and Filter Gay/Lesbian Animations options

 

The other possibility is that something got broken in the update process - in this case you should consider uninstalling Cursed Loot and cleaning your save with a save cleaner, then reinstalling.  Don't forget that Cursed Loot can export your MCM settings and then import after you reinstall, so you don't have to redo all your MCM settings if you do this. 

[Slagblah]

18 hours ago, ZoneTanIsLove said:

It's basically that I'll start talking to an NPC and they'll basically demand to start fucking my character.

For that, you'll probably want to look at the Misogyny and/or Males Demand Sex options. That's where the "Come here woman!" dialog tree comes from.

 

"You're smoking hot..." would be the Device Comments option.

[Clea Strange]

19 hours ago, ZoneTanIsLove said:

It's basically that I'll start talking to an NPC and they'll basically demand to start fucking my character.

 

you have misogyny and males demand sex turned on, and there is a chance that males will demand sex when you talk to any male and it is a percentage and you can also mess with the percentage. You can disable both, with misogyny active you must obey all males no matter what. You refusing sex with males will have males put devices on your character, well that is what I've had happen to me before

[SkyAddiction]

9 hours ago, Kimy said:

Yeah, I hoped that SS's maintainer would fix this issue, but it has been in there for years now. Oh, well, I will just make sure not to pass a restrained character to SS anymore, so this will fix the issue as best as I can on DCL's end. If people use other mods to trigger SS, they need to disable those, or convince Jfraser to add a check for DD devices on SS's end (which can be done without having to hard link to it).

 

He may not be aware that it's an issue. I'd happily speculate that most veteran mod users are more accustomed to working around issues than asking for fixes. I'll PM him to tie into this conversation and see what happens.

 

That said, there's a lot going for a defeat solution that accounts for DD/Zap devices, or at least one of those groups. It would instantly solve a lot of problems. I've been half-heartedly working on just such a thing as part of my mod-making learning process, and even using your code it's not an easy thing. jfraser might not know how  to make it happen.

 

At best we get redundancy and cooperation, at worst we get... what we have now.

[jfraser]

The big problem with SS is that the maintainer is an idiot who doesn't know how to check for DD restraints without making DD a requirement, work with followers in any way, finagle factions properly, or any number of other things that actually talented modders (such as Kimy) can do with ease. He only made SS in the first place because no one else seemed motivated to do so, but literally every function beyond the very basics were written by other modders who actually know what they're doing. Alas, he generally has very little time to devote to it 

 

If anyone feels they can improve upon it, please be his guest to mess with it in any way you like, up to and including re-releasing your own version.

[Lupine00]

9 hours ago, Slagblah said:

"You're smoking hot..." would be the Device Comments option.

This is one option that tends to cause confusion with people new to the mod, because it requires a certain amount of guesswork from a player to figure out that this is what drives "Smoking Hot". It's almost like it should be called Smoking Hot and not Device Comments... though a more specific tooltip would probably do the job.

 

Something I think mod authors rarely think of, is that mod users often install multiple mods together at once, and are often unsure what mod is generating behavior, let alone what menu item. Some authors make this worse by adding vaguely named menu items with no tooltips.

 

DCL is quite clear in most respects, but sometimes the way items are grouped together into the different pages can be confusing, or lead to a bit of clicking back and forth to find things.

 

I mean, where would you look for Self Bondage options? Devices? Events? Miscellaneous? It could fit in any of these. There's no easy to to break down the huge range of DCL options, and though some things could be reorganized more intuitively, and to require less options in some places, but that would take a lot of time that wouldn't go into anything new.

 

For example, why keep the "global" event choice? Why not simply get rid of it, and the checkbox to disable it, and have the three refined chances all default to the original global chance? It's simpler. But is anyone clamouring for this? No.

 

I would like options relating to plants though: to disable keys in them, and to narrow plant events to EC+ attacks only.

I would like more range on the chance sliders. Why do some not go down to 0?

And I'd like to play some games with a negative event chance contribution from arousal (done by slider arousal contribution to chance to a -ve value).

So, you get a safety reward from being belted and plugged. Might not make sense to you, but it's just an option that might feel fair sometimes.

 

These are trivial things I hacked in myself, back in 6.2, but I discarded my changes when I moved to 6.3

[Lupine00]

3 minutes ago, jfraser said:

The big problem with SS is that the maintainer is an idiot who doesn't know how to check for DD restraints without making DD a requirement,

Though this would barely even be a problem would it? How many mods does it target that don't require DD anyway?

ME maybe? As that it incompatible with everything else and has its own auctions, it doesn't make sense, so... No mods at all?

[jfraser]

7 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Though this would barely even be a problem would it? How many mods does it target that don't require DD anyway?

ME maybe? As that it incompatible with everything else and has its own auctions, it doesn't make sense, so... No mods at all?

Many people do not use DD. My goal has always been to keep SS from having any dependency beyond ZAP (which i assume everyone does use)

[ZoneTanIsLove]

Whenever the armbinder is on an NPC, they still move their arms around freely in front of them, instead of having their arms bound behind them. The armbinder is visible, but their arms are not bound.

[Laura]

21 minutes ago, ZoneTanIsLove said:

Whenever the armbinder is on an NPC, they still move their arms around freely in front of them, instead of having their arms bound behind them. The armbinder is visible, but their arms are not bound.

They are working on it for the next Devious Devices Integration release