Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[LazyBoot]

3 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

It's a Boolean property with its default value currently set to False.

 

If you make it toggleable in the MCM, it breaks nothing, just makes the option available to toggle the Boolean.

 

Perhaps you should look at the scripts so you get a better understanding of how it's implemented?

But your version would still require both DestroyKey and the key to be marked generic. Even if the device itself sets the DestroyKey property to true, it won't break the key unless the mod is updated for the new system. So devices that work now, would stop working with your suggestion.

[Tyrant99]

7 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

But your version would still require both DestroyKey and the key to be marked generic. Even if the device itself sets the DestroyKey property to true, it won't break the key unless the mod is updated for the new system. So devices that work now, would stop working with your suggestion.

Obviously the mod would need to be updated to integrate the new Keywords etc. (As they don't exist currently) - The very reason why I mentioned it to Kimy.

 

I'm honestly not even sure what you're getting at...

 

Anyway, I've got stuff to do. Bye.

 

[LazyBoot]

18 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

Obviously the mod would need to be updated to integrate the new Keywords etc. (As they don't exist currently) - The very reason why I mentioned it to Kimy.

 

I'm honestly not even sure what you're getting at...

 

Anyway, I've got stuff to do. Bye.

What I mean is that currently an item in DD can set the property DestroyKey true, and then any time that item is removed the key used will be destroyed. But your example would also require that key to be tagged with the generickey keyword, therefore breaking backwards-compatibility. And that is something that probably should not be done when it's so easy to not break it.

[Kimy]

4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

The thing with DD3 bondage was it was fun, and you could get out of it, but with DD4, the most minor item seems to end up stuck on you for days of (real) play at a stretch, and they become tiresome. The events that were (maybe) immersive, are now sometimes so long that they become a serious annoyance. I end up turning them off, which I never did before.

 

DCL quests should be exactly as hard or easy as they were pre-DD4. Nothing in DCL expects you using DD4's overhauled escape system. DCL provides a way out for each and every custom restraint it equips on you. And the standard devices you can influence with DD's built-in difficulty modifier AND DCL's key drop chance sliders. I am not sure I understand the nature of the problem?

[Kimy]

3 hours ago, Tyrant99 said:

It's a Boolean property with its default value currently set to False.

 

If you make it toggleable in the MCM, it breaks nothing, just makes the option available to toggle the Boolean.

 

Perhaps you should look at the scripts so you get a better understanding of how it's implemented?

 

If the user enables it, at a time a quest is running that needs one UNIQUE key to unlock multiple devices, the quest will break, because the feature will destroy the key after the first device, despite it's needed for more.

 

That's the exact reason why I removed the old feature. Some things may look easy on the surface, but are in fact not THAT simple.

[Finallywon]

Alright, found my issue, I had a few meshes and texture that had been remapped by another mod, it just moved where skin was being properly mapped and bodyslide wasn't able to change it. After I deleted it, and re-ran body slide it seems to all be in order. Like I said earlier, I knew it was something I did wrong, but I was looking in the wrong place, I was thinking it had to do with bodyslide or UUNP, it was just some ambiguous addon that I didn't even remember I used. Thanks for the help though everyone, I can't believe how fast people tried to help me.

[lolmods37]

I want to try to add a few items I made to the lists for my own personal amusement, but I can't seem to find the source for the scripts? Am I being blind or is it not available ?

 

Thanks

[Tyrant99]

9 minutes ago, Kimy said:

If the user enables it, at a time a quest is running that needs one UNIQUE key to unlock multiple devices, the quest will break, because the feature will destroy the key after the first device, despite it's needed for more.

 

That's the exact reason why I removed the old feature. Some things may look easy on the surface, but are in fact not THAT simple.

Would this not fix it though in your Remove Device Function?

 

Function RemoveDevice(actor akActor, bool destroyDevice=false, bool skipMutex=false)	
	libs.SendDeviceRemovalEvent(deviceName, akActor)
	libs.SendDeviceRemovedEventVerbose(deviceInventory, zad_DeviousDevice, akActor)
	if deviceInventory.HasKeyword(libs.zad_QuestItem) || deviceRendered.HasKeyword(libs.zad_QuestItem)
		if !skipMutex
			libs.AcquireAndSpinlock()
		EndIf
		libs.Log("Acquired mutex, removing " + deviceInventory.GetName())		
		StorageUtil.SetIntValue(akActor, "zad_RemovalToken" + deviceInventory, 1)
		QuestItemRemovalTokenInternal = True
		akActor.UnequipItemEx(deviceInventory, 0, false)
		akActor.RemoveItem(deviceRendered, 1, true) 
		libs.CleanupDevices(akActor, zad_DeviousDevice)
		if DestroyOnRemove
			akActor.RemoveItem(deviceInventory, 1, true)
		EndIf		
	Else
		libs.RemoveDevice(akActor, deviceInventory, deviceRendered, zad_DeviousDevice, DestroyOnRemove, skipMutex=skipMutex)
	Endif
	If akActor != Libs.PlayerRef
		return
	EndIf
	If DestroyKey && !DeviceKey.HasKeyword(zad_UniqueKey) ; Hypothetical Keyword added to Quest / Special / Unique Keys
		libs.PlayerRef.RemoveItem(DeviceKey, NumberOfKeysNeeded, False)
	EndIf	
EndFunction

 

[Kimy]

Yes, that's pretty much how I will implement it except that I will use a keyword for keys that can be safely destroyed. Otherwise I'd force modders to update the mods, or the feature will STILL break their stuff.

[Tyrant99]

47 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Yes, that's pretty much how I will implement it except that I will use a keyword for keys that can be safely destroyed. Otherwise I'd force modders to update the mods, or the feature will STILL break their stuff.

Just proof of concept. I changed bool in script to destroy keys, then made a unique key with a unique keyword, then rigged up some of my retextured Brothel Mod DD items to use special key. 

 

Tested and all the regular DD stuff the keys would break upon removal, but I was able to use my unique key repeatedly no problem on multiple pieces of gear. So it seems to work great with above script changes. The other thing that occurs to me is maybe doing something with key breaking as well the destroy key.

 

I see why you may want to implement your way, to be nicer to modders (nice of you ). Honestly though, imo it was pretty easy to setup, and I would think that most modders if they were making special / quest DD gear, they would be setting up the script properties the way they wanted for each custom item anyway? You just punch in the key and the keyword for the key - not bad - but your way would be even easier. 

 

 

 

[WaxenFigure]

32 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

Just proof of concept. I changed bool in script to destroy keys, then made a unique key with a unique keyword, then rigged up some of my retextured Brothel Mod DD items to use special key. 

 

Tested and all the regular DD stuff the keys would break upon removal, but I was able to use my unique key repeatedly no problem on multiple pieces of gear. So it seems to work great with above script changes. The other thing that occurs to me is maybe doing something with key breaking as well the destroy key.

 

I see why you may want to implement your way, to be nicer to modders (nice of you ). Honestly though, imo it was pretty easy to setup, and I would think that most modders if they were making special / quest DD gear, they would be setting up the script properties the way they wanted for each custom item anyway? You just punch in the key and the keyword for the key - not bad - but your way would be even easier. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some mods no longer have anyone working on them so requiring them to change will also require someone to fix mods that get broken.  Since it will be just as easy to implement it in a fashion that doesn't break old mods there's no real reason to use a method that will cause problems instead of fixing them.

[Tyrant99]

8 minutes ago, WaxenFigure said:

 

Some mods no longer have anyone working on them so requiring them to change will also require someone to fix mods that get broken.  Since it will be just as easy to implement it in a fashion that doesn't break old mods there's no real reason to use a method that will cause problems instead of fixing them.

Alright, fair enough.

 

Marking the existing zad keys as generic was my original suggestion anyway...

[Inanis Corvus]

Is there any way to get just the 3 spells without the rest of the mod.

[lolmods37]

3 hours ago, lolmods37 said:

I want to try to add a few items I made to the lists for my own personal amusement, but I can't seem to find the source for the scripts? Am I being blind or is it not available ?

 

Thanks

And now I look like a fool for not realizing there was an option to get source in the installer .. so nevermind

[Kimy]

For those of you missing the Destroy Key feature...it's back!

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/69936-devious-devices-framework-developmentbeta/?page=77&tab=comments#comment-2206050

[TajZ]

So I did in fact come back to Leah. So if you perform "Can I Dance for You" while Sneaking (Crouched) or in middle of another animation ie "Tug at Chastity Belt" or "Hands Wander Absent-mindedly" - Leah will be stuck clapping, even if in a hostile cell like a cave or something, thus she will keep clapping and not say help you in combat.

[TajZ]

um... am I supposed to be able to be raped while in another animation?? I was serving Leah with Dance Naked or a Whip me then was raped by Elda in Candlehearth Hall (or my horse outside) while in middle of a Leah animation. Is that supposed to happen??

[r5e4w3q2]

Random thoughts on a potential follower, a mashup of the bound girls and Mjoll.  Starts like the normal bound girls, but after freeing her she asks you to recover her gear and in return she will become a follower.

Cheap and doesn't want to tie you up, problem is she can't stop herself from touching stuff.

 

Fingers crossed you open a boss chest, no explosion all good right?  "Hey, what is this?" boom!  As long as she is with you and has her hands free, any time you roll for a trap effect and get nothing there is a chance for her to make a "Oh, shiny!" remark and force a re-roll.

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, r5e4w3q2 said:

Random thoughts on a potential follower, a mashup of the bound girls and Mjoll.  Starts like the normal bound girls, but after freeing her she asks you to recover her gear and in return she will become a follower.

Cheap and doesn't want to tie you up, problem is she can't stop herself from touching stuff.

Have you been playing Darkest Dungeon?

 

[Lupine00]

18 hours ago, Kimy said:

DCL quests should be exactly as hard or easy as they were pre-DD4. Nothing in DCL expects you using DD4's overhauled escape system. DCL provides a way out for each and every custom restraint it equips on you. And the standard devices you can influence with DD's built-in difficulty modifier AND DCL's key drop chance sliders. I am not sure I understand the nature of the problem?

Firstly, I'm not really talking about DCL here, though the DCL items do pick up one or two aspects of behaviour from DD4, I believe, because they inherit some bondage "events" like chafing, or belt-drip, with attendant DD4 animations.

 

It's not that those animations are bad. They're nice animations...

 

But there are multiple problems with some that seem to have changed, in a gameplay context, nevertheless.

I could provide detail, but surely you've heard it all before already by this point? 

 

And, as I've said, quite annoyingly, and several times before, escape in DD4 is a lengthier process, even on the easiest settings. I can't even bring myself to try the harder ones, because I suspect an entire SD+ slavery capture, capitulation and release, might be shorter. I'm not sure I have that much time to spare in my life.

 

 

It's not so much the issue of getting a key that makes DD4 take longer, it's being able to use it successfully - though I understand there are more options coming in that respect?

 

Another issue, is settings like the plug bump chance, which for reasons that elude me isn't tied into the main difficulty setting, and has its own custom value, contrary to the ethos that tends to pervade DD4.0 for such settings.

 

It didn't occur to me that was so, until quite recently. There was no reason for me to spend 20 levels with an inflatable plug inserted - I was unfairly blaming the difficulty setting, but that actually has nothing to do with plug bump chance.

 

 

However, beyond the variations in struggle animation (which are significant in impact), there exists something beyond that, some undefinable quality of DD4, perhaps  as subtle as the nuances of the pop-up boxes full of ominous warnings about manipulating locks, or the (actually improved) descriptions that attempt to tell you what keys are required to unlock something, or the continual announcements of your exhaustion and frustration - which are perhaps over-egging that pudding as the player is probably feeling it directly - or some combination of all these small details, that just makes DD4 feel like harder work and less bleak. Perhaps its simply disappointment that DD4 wasn't what I was hoping for.

 

In DD3, you tended to get the feeling that bondage was only temporary (unless you died) and you'd probably soon be free (or dead). But in DD4, experience, and atmosphere in general, intimate that whatever you're locked into isn't coming off in a hurry, and if you have quests in progress you don't want to kill, you are staying this way for the foreseeable... 

 

 

It would improve things a bit if the duration of "event" animations that freeze your character, was scaled by difficulty, and were much shorter than the current lengths on the easy settings.

 

Camera is supposed to swap to third-person when they play? It doesn't always swap. It felt more reliable in DD3, though probably there are no code changes...

In immersive first person, I'm pretty sure it never swaps. You just freeze and you have to figure out if it's an event, or the game broke, or you're stuck in a hole, or some other reason you'd stop moving.

I tick the immersive first person support box, but I've never noticed it making any difference to anything, including this.

 

 

[Kimy]

Oh right, I thought you meant DCL quests, because we happen to be in the DCL thread! But...DD4 doesn't even quests, so what quests are we talking about?

 

I removed the unlock cooldowns from most items in DD 4.1 btw. These were what made escape seem "longer" at times, because you couldn't unlock a restraint absolutely right away if you happened to have the correct key already. In DD3 you went "Eeek, who put that collar on me? Glad that they didn't notice I carry a key for these. Haha! Off it goes!!!" Well, people didn't like the feature, so it's (largely) gone. On the easiest setting, escape should actually be -easier- than in DD3 now.

 

Generally, I happily admit that since I took over DD, its focus shifted a little. I don't see DD's main use-case in cosmetic devices. That's what people can use ZAP and DDA for. My focus is on devices, features and mechanics that enable modders to make BDSM themed mods with BDSM themed gameplay. I don't go out of my way to put showstoppers in there that would bring conventional Skyrim gameplay to a complete halt. But in my view, if you are being restrained, your attention will and should shift to the restraints for a bit.

Mind you that people can still make 100% cosmetic devices using the DD framework, but it's not something I feel DD necessarily needs to provide as the -default- behavior. For example, pre-Kimy DD armbinders were meant to be super temporary. You'd usually stand in place and struggle it off. Now, we added all sorts of mechanics and features that better facilitate making bondage-themed quests, that can be played -while- wearing an armbinder - so there is no need to design them to be super temporary anymore. Most of the standard items are still very cosmetic in nature. Collars, cuffs, corsets, gloves, catsuits, chastity belts and bras - they won't ever really get in your way while playing Skyrim vanilla quests. DD itself won't ever put anything on you, so if people really don't want a slim chance of their dungeon run to be slowed down by a pair of handcuffs, they can achieve this by not using content mods that would put you in one. Or in DCL's case - configuring them properly.

 

Events: Some events are less than engaging, true. I might have a look at these and remove some of the boring ones. As you correctly pointed out, there is rarely a need for describing the effects of wearing bondage in textual form, as we now have a plethora of animations available to -show- and not tell.

 

You know - using the difficulty setting for determining animation length is good idea. I might do that!

 

I don't use first person view. Ever. IFP support is something Min added waaaaay back then and I cannot support it, unless people tell me EXACTLY what needs changed, preferably by contributing the code. I left in in only because I believe(d) it works?

If you encounter an event that doesn't properly swap to 3rd person, let me know! As I said, since I never ever use 1st person view, I am guaranteed to not notice, unless people tell me!

 

 

[Laura]

I like that devices are now on for longer. It used to be either just cosmetic or easily removable.

And the easily removable things were a bit annoying, because some required you to stand still and struggle if wanted to take it off.

There are some showstoppers, like the straitjacket legbinder combo.

But I keep those on low droprates to keep the game flow intact.

[Tyrant99]

16 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I like that devices are now on for longer. It used to be either just cosmetic or easily removable.

And the easily removable things were a bit annoying, because some required you to stand still and struggle if wanted to take it off.

There are some showstoppers, like the straitjacket legbinder combo.

But I keep those on low droprates to keep the game flow intact.

lol, I made a Quest that does a first pass unequip of all generic DD gear before the quest starts. But, if people try to abuse it with CoC teleports and re-use the function to remove gear without advancing the quest, the 2nd time it puts all high security gear on them including one of those straitjackets with legbinders, and then teleports them to an attack trigger box in the middle of a giant spider den in the Black Reach...

[Kimy]

6 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

lol, I made a Quest that does a first pass unequip of all generic DD gear before the quest starts. But, if people try to abuse it with CoC teleports and re-use the function to remove gear without advancing the quest, the 2nd time it puts all high security gear on them including one of those straitjackets with legbinders, and then teleports them to an attack trigger box in the middle of a giant spider den in the Black Reach...

I like it!

 

>>

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[kplh]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

As I said, since I never ever use 1st person view, I am guaranteed to not notice, unless people tell me!

I use Enhanced Camera mod, which adds a body into first person view. I'm not sure if it happens without the camera mod, but in quite a few cases when DCL events trigger (when looting things) the camera does not go into 3rd person - what does happen is that the 'bleedout' animation gets played from the first person perspective.

 

If I have some time, I'll test it this weekend and let you know if I find any camera mode toggle bugs.