Deviously Cursed Loot LE 9.0 (2021-03-09)

[Tyrant99]

8 minutes ago, WaxenFigure said:

 

Some mods no longer have anyone working on them so requiring them to change will also require someone to fix mods that get broken.  Since it will be just as easy to implement it in a fashion that doesn't break old mods there's no real reason to use a method that will cause problems instead of fixing them.

Alright, fair enough.

 

Marking the existing zad keys as generic was my original suggestion anyway...

[Inanis Corvus]

Is there any way to get just the 3 spells without the rest of the mod.

[lolmods37]

3 hours ago, lolmods37 said:

I want to try to add a few items I made to the lists for my own personal amusement, but I can't seem to find the source for the scripts? Am I being blind or is it not available ?

 

Thanks

And now I look like a fool for not realizing there was an option to get source in the installer .. so nevermind

[Kimy]

For those of you missing the Destroy Key feature...it's back!

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/69936-devious-devices-framework-developmentbeta/?page=77&tab=comments#comment-2206050

[TajZ]

So I did in fact come back to Leah. So if you perform "Can I Dance for You" while Sneaking (Crouched) or in middle of another animation ie "Tug at Chastity Belt" or "Hands Wander Absent-mindedly" - Leah will be stuck clapping, even if in a hostile cell like a cave or something, thus she will keep clapping and not say help you in combat.

[TajZ]

um... am I supposed to be able to be raped while in another animation?? I was serving Leah with Dance Naked or a Whip me then was raped by Elda in Candlehearth Hall (or my horse outside) while in middle of a Leah animation. Is that supposed to happen??

[r5e4w3q2]

Random thoughts on a potential follower, a mashup of the bound girls and Mjoll.  Starts like the normal bound girls, but after freeing her she asks you to recover her gear and in return she will become a follower.

Cheap and doesn't want to tie you up, problem is she can't stop herself from touching stuff.

 

Fingers crossed you open a boss chest, no explosion all good right?  "Hey, what is this?" boom!  As long as she is with you and has her hands free, any time you roll for a trap effect and get nothing there is a chance for her to make a "Oh, shiny!" remark and force a re-roll.

[Lupine00]

10 hours ago, r5e4w3q2 said:

Random thoughts on a potential follower, a mashup of the bound girls and Mjoll.  Starts like the normal bound girls, but after freeing her she asks you to recover her gear and in return she will become a follower.

Cheap and doesn't want to tie you up, problem is she can't stop herself from touching stuff.

Have you been playing Darkest Dungeon?

 

[Lupine00]

18 hours ago, Kimy said:

DCL quests should be exactly as hard or easy as they were pre-DD4. Nothing in DCL expects you using DD4's overhauled escape system. DCL provides a way out for each and every custom restraint it equips on you. And the standard devices you can influence with DD's built-in difficulty modifier AND DCL's key drop chance sliders. I am not sure I understand the nature of the problem?

Firstly, I'm not really talking about DCL here, though the DCL items do pick up one or two aspects of behaviour from DD4, I believe, because they inherit some bondage "events" like chafing, or belt-drip, with attendant DD4 animations.

 

It's not that those animations are bad. They're nice animations...

 

But there are multiple problems with some that seem to have changed, in a gameplay context, nevertheless.

I could provide detail, but surely you've heard it all before already by this point? 

 

And, as I've said, quite annoyingly, and several times before, escape in DD4 is a lengthier process, even on the easiest settings. I can't even bring myself to try the harder ones, because I suspect an entire SD+ slavery capture, capitulation and release, might be shorter. I'm not sure I have that much time to spare in my life.

 

 

It's not so much the issue of getting a key that makes DD4 take longer, it's being able to use it successfully - though I understand there are more options coming in that respect?

 

Another issue, is settings like the plug bump chance, which for reasons that elude me isn't tied into the main difficulty setting, and has its own custom value, contrary to the ethos that tends to pervade DD4.0 for such settings.

 

It didn't occur to me that was so, until quite recently. There was no reason for me to spend 20 levels with an inflatable plug inserted - I was unfairly blaming the difficulty setting, but that actually has nothing to do with plug bump chance.

 

 

However, beyond the variations in struggle animation (which are significant in impact), there exists something beyond that, some undefinable quality of DD4, perhaps  as subtle as the nuances of the pop-up boxes full of ominous warnings about manipulating locks, or the (actually improved) descriptions that attempt to tell you what keys are required to unlock something, or the continual announcements of your exhaustion and frustration - which are perhaps over-egging that pudding as the player is probably feeling it directly - or some combination of all these small details, that just makes DD4 feel like harder work and less bleak. Perhaps its simply disappointment that DD4 wasn't what I was hoping for.

 

In DD3, you tended to get the feeling that bondage was only temporary (unless you died) and you'd probably soon be free (or dead). But in DD4, experience, and atmosphere in general, intimate that whatever you're locked into isn't coming off in a hurry, and if you have quests in progress you don't want to kill, you are staying this way for the foreseeable... 

 

 

It would improve things a bit if the duration of "event" animations that freeze your character, was scaled by difficulty, and were much shorter than the current lengths on the easy settings.

 

Camera is supposed to swap to third-person when they play? It doesn't always swap. It felt more reliable in DD3, though probably there are no code changes...

In immersive first person, I'm pretty sure it never swaps. You just freeze and you have to figure out if it's an event, or the game broke, or you're stuck in a hole, or some other reason you'd stop moving.

I tick the immersive first person support box, but I've never noticed it making any difference to anything, including this.

 

 

[Kimy]

Oh right, I thought you meant DCL quests, because we happen to be in the DCL thread! But...DD4 doesn't even quests, so what quests are we talking about?

 

I removed the unlock cooldowns from most items in DD 4.1 btw. These were what made escape seem "longer" at times, because you couldn't unlock a restraint absolutely right away if you happened to have the correct key already. In DD3 you went "Eeek, who put that collar on me? Glad that they didn't notice I carry a key for these. Haha! Off it goes!!!" Well, people didn't like the feature, so it's (largely) gone. On the easiest setting, escape should actually be -easier- than in DD3 now.

 

Generally, I happily admit that since I took over DD, its focus shifted a little. I don't see DD's main use-case in cosmetic devices. That's what people can use ZAP and DDA for. My focus is on devices, features and mechanics that enable modders to make BDSM themed mods with BDSM themed gameplay. I don't go out of my way to put showstoppers in there that would bring conventional Skyrim gameplay to a complete halt. But in my view, if you are being restrained, your attention will and should shift to the restraints for a bit.

Mind you that people can still make 100% cosmetic devices using the DD framework, but it's not something I feel DD necessarily needs to provide as the -default- behavior. For example, pre-Kimy DD armbinders were meant to be super temporary. You'd usually stand in place and struggle it off. Now, we added all sorts of mechanics and features that better facilitate making bondage-themed quests, that can be played -while- wearing an armbinder - so there is no need to design them to be super temporary anymore. Most of the standard items are still very cosmetic in nature. Collars, cuffs, corsets, gloves, catsuits, chastity belts and bras - they won't ever really get in your way while playing Skyrim vanilla quests. DD itself won't ever put anything on you, so if people really don't want a slim chance of their dungeon run to be slowed down by a pair of handcuffs, they can achieve this by not using content mods that would put you in one. Or in DCL's case - configuring them properly.

 

Events: Some events are less than engaging, true. I might have a look at these and remove some of the boring ones. As you correctly pointed out, there is rarely a need for describing the effects of wearing bondage in textual form, as we now have a plethora of animations available to -show- and not tell.

 

You know - using the difficulty setting for determining animation length is good idea. I might do that!

 

I don't use first person view. Ever. IFP support is something Min added waaaaay back then and I cannot support it, unless people tell me EXACTLY what needs changed, preferably by contributing the code. I left in in only because I believe(d) it works?

If you encounter an event that doesn't properly swap to 3rd person, let me know! As I said, since I never ever use 1st person view, I am guaranteed to not notice, unless people tell me!

 

 

[Laura]

I like that devices are now on for longer. It used to be either just cosmetic or easily removable.

And the easily removable things were a bit annoying, because some required you to stand still and struggle if wanted to take it off.

There are some showstoppers, like the straitjacket legbinder combo.

But I keep those on low droprates to keep the game flow intact.

[Tyrant99]

16 minutes ago, Comrade Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

I like that devices are now on for longer. It used to be either just cosmetic or easily removable.

And the easily removable things were a bit annoying, because some required you to stand still and struggle if wanted to take it off.

There are some showstoppers, like the straitjacket legbinder combo.

But I keep those on low droprates to keep the game flow intact.

lol, I made a Quest that does a first pass unequip of all generic DD gear before the quest starts. But, if people try to abuse it with CoC teleports and re-use the function to remove gear without advancing the quest, the 2nd time it puts all high security gear on them including one of those straitjackets with legbinders, and then teleports them to an attack trigger box in the middle of a giant spider den in the Black Reach...

[Kimy]

6 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

lol, I made a Quest that does a first pass unequip of all generic DD gear before the quest starts. But, if people try to abuse it with CoC teleports and re-use the function to remove gear without advancing the quest, the 2nd time it puts all high security gear on them including one of those straitjackets with legbinders, and then teleports them to an attack trigger box in the middle of a giant spider den in the Black Reach...

I like it!

 

>>

<<

[kplh]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

As I said, since I never ever use 1st person view, I am guaranteed to not notice, unless people tell me!

I use Enhanced Camera mod, which adds a body into first person view. I'm not sure if it happens without the camera mod, but in quite a few cases when DCL events trigger (when looting things) the camera does not go into 3rd person - what does happen is that the 'bleedout' animation gets played from the first person perspective.

 

If I have some time, I'll test it this weekend and let you know if I find any camera mode toggle bugs.

[Reesewow]

1 hour ago, Tyrant99 said:

I figure that it would probably be possible to catch most of the common cheats that people use and put some nice surprises in for them.

 

For instance, if fast travel is disabled and a courier quest from point A to B would normally take > 2 in-game hours to get to on foot, yet they manage to arrive in < 1 in-game hour, could give them a surprise for the CoC over 

 

Another would be a While function to detect if they're fiddling with TimeScale global...

 

I don't know if I'm that evil though lol... I'll probably just catch the major ones...

Heh, that may be a bit too evil IMO if the result was actual punishment/more in-game devices.  I love your mod but for the purposes of testing you'd better believe I coc'd to Markarth about 20 minutes into my journey to see what was next.  

 

I would however totally support mods like yours and Cursed Loot breaking the fourth wall and calling out the player's cheating in a fun way.  You can't really stop players taking shortcuts with a free console, and for long term players using console commands to save time is almost second nature.  Trying to block that will just ruin things for some people, as they may not have time to spare for the intended real time it takes to do a task or journey, or they may be in pure testing mode.

 

If obvious cheating was detected, I think it would be hilarious for the quest npc to make some comment about it, or to have an extra-special item included in a set of devices that you'd have equipped anyway.  We'd just need a new texture for the "whore" plug sign to read "cheater". 

[Tyrant99]

7 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

Heh, that may be a bit too evil IMO if the result was actual punishment/more in-game devices.  I love your mod but for the purposes of testing you'd better believe I coc'd to Markarth about 20 minutes into my journey to see what was next.  

 

I would however totally support mods like yours and Cursed Loot breaking the fourth wall and calling out the player's cheating in a fun way.  You can't really stop players taking shortcuts with a free console, and for long term players using console commands to save time is almost second nature.  Trying to block that will just ruin things for some people, as they may not have time to spare for the intended real time it takes to do a task or journey, or they may be in pure testing mode.

 

If obvious cheating was detected, I think it would be hilarious for the quest npc to make some comment about it, or to have an extra-special item included in a set of devices that you'd have equipped anyway.  We'd just need a new texture for the "whore" plug sign to read "cheater". 

I more or less agree, which is why I think it probably wouldn't be good to put in anything too harsh, but 'little surprises' could be fun... Might make veteran Players a bit paranoid about using their console hacks  

[Reesewow]

5 minutes ago, Tyrant99 said:

I more or less agree, which is why I think it probably wouldn't be good to put in anything too harsh, but 'little surprises' could be fun... Might make veteran Players a bit paranoid about using their console hacks  

Heh, I know I'd be shocked and impressed if it happened to me.  I love it when games/mods have witty easter eggs like that.

[Lokikun]

Maybe add something similar to the Cursed God Set from Captured Dreams.

You could call them Dragon Break Restraints. The player would have to willingly pick them up or add it to their inventory, after being warned.

But after that all bet are off, once worn, hardcore mode gets enabled and cheating is "punished", but the only way out is to complete the associated Quests.

 

Timescale monitoring could be hard, since some old mods change it without warning.

[LazyBoot]

1 hour ago, Tyrant99 said:

2 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Heh, that may be a bit too evil IMO if the result was actual punishment/more in-game devices.  I love your mod but for the purposes of testing you'd better believe I coc'd to Markarth about 20 minutes into my journey to see what was next.  

 

I would however totally support mods like yours and Cursed Loot breaking the fourth wall and calling out the player's cheating in a fun way.  You can't really stop players taking shortcuts with a free console, and for long term players using console commands to save time is almost second nature.  Trying to block that will just ruin things for some people, as they may not have time to spare for the intended real time it takes to do a task or journey, or they may be in pure testing mode.

 

If obvious cheating was detected, I think it would be hilarious for the quest npc to make some comment about it, or to have an extra-special item included in a set of devices that you'd have equipped anyway.  We'd just need a new texture for the "whore" plug sign to read "cheater". 

I more or less agree, which is why I think it probably wouldn't be good to put in anything too harsh, but 'little surprises' could be fun... Might make veteran Players a bit paranoid about using their console hacks  

Last time I used console to cheat progress was after I had to roll back to a save I made 5 days earlier, because of pcea2^* getting broken. Though I only used it to fast-forward a bit closer to where I was with some "movetoqt" and some missing xp.

 

^{* I think sexlab had lost some settings as well, plus probably some other ones I hadn't noticed.}

[ralphk11]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Firstly, I'm not really talking about DCL here, though the DCL items do pick up one or two aspects of behaviour from DD4, I believe, because they inherit some bondage "events" like chafing, or belt-drip, with attendant DD4 animations.

 

It's not that those animations are bad. They're nice animations...

 

But there are multiple problems with some that seem to have changed, in a gameplay context, nevertheless.

I could provide detail, but surely you've heard it all before already by this point? 

 

And, as I've said, quite annoyingly, and several times before, escape in DD4 is a lengthier process, even on the easiest settings. I can't even bring myself to try the harder ones, because I suspect an entire SD+ slavery capture, capitulation and release, might be shorter. I'm not sure I have that much time to spare in my life.

 

 

It's not so much the issue of getting a key that makes DD4 take longer, it's being able to use it successfully - though I understand there are more options coming in that respect?

 

Another issue, is settings like the plug bump chance, which for reasons that elude me isn't tied into the main difficulty setting, and has its own custom value, contrary to the ethos that tends to pervade DD4.0 for such settings.

 

It didn't occur to me that was so, until quite recently. There was no reason for me to spend 20 levels with an inflatable plug inserted - I was unfairly blaming the difficulty setting, but that actually has nothing to do with plug bump chance.

 

 

However, beyond the variations in struggle animation (which are significant in impact), there exists something beyond that, some undefinable quality of DD4, perhaps  as subtle as the nuances of the pop-up boxes full of ominous warnings about manipulating locks, or the (actually improved) descriptions that attempt to tell you what keys are required to unlock something, or the continual announcements of your exhaustion and frustration - which are perhaps over-egging that pudding as the player is probably feeling it directly - or some combination of all these small details, that just makes DD4 feel like harder work and less bleak. Perhaps its simply disappointment that DD4 wasn't what I was hoping for.

 

In DD3, you tended to get the feeling that bondage was only temporary (unless you died) and you'd probably soon be free (or dead). But in DD4, experience, and atmosphere in general, intimate that whatever you're locked into isn't coming off in a hurry, and if you have quests in progress you don't want to kill, you are staying this way for the foreseeable... 

 

 

It would improve things a bit if the duration of "event" animations that freeze your character, was scaled by difficulty, and were much shorter than the current lengths on the easy settings.

 

Camera is supposed to swap to third-person when they play? It doesn't always swap. It felt more reliable in DD3, though probably there are no code changes...

In immersive first person, I'm pretty sure it never swaps. You just freeze and you have to figure out if it's an event, or the game broke, or you're stuck in a hole, or some other reason you'd stop moving.

I tick the immersive first person support box, but I've never noticed it making any difference to anything, including this.

 

 

I agree, something has changed which stops this being fun.  It was this mod (DCL) that switched me from Xbox to PC and I have been been playing skyrim with it happily for nearly two years. Something about this release has made it aggravating, not something  I can describe exactly.  Not complaining, mods go the way authors want them to, it's free software for me.  I did download the devious helpers mod, something the author wrote because he felt the same way.

in RPG terms, if I was a female going out on dangerous missions, the dangers including traps of this nature, then I would take every precaution I could.  Hide extra keys, give keys to friends to help out if I got stuck etc.  None of that is in this, and it seems to have gone the other way, sure if the sh1t hits then I am stuck but only through lack of preparation or really bad luck, not on every box that fires a trap.

[Reesewow]

41 minutes ago, ralphk11 said:

I agree, something has changed which stops this being fun.  It was this mod (DCL) that switched me from Xbox to PC and I have been been playing skyrim with it happily for nearly two years. Something about this release has made it aggravating, not something  I can describe exactly.  Not complaining, mods go the way authors want them to, it's free software for me.  I did download the devious helpers mod, something the author wrote because he felt the same way.

in RPG terms, if I was a female going out on dangerous missions, the dangers including traps of this nature, then I would take every precaution I could.  Hide extra keys, give keys to friends to help out if I got stuck etc.  None of that is in this, and it seems to have gone the other way, sure if the sh1t hits then I am stuck but only through lack of preparation or really bad luck, not on every box that fires a trap.

Obviously it is your gameplay experience to decide what you enjoy/don't enjoy, but I'm not sure "I can't describe what I don't like, but I don't like it" is very useful criticism of the updates.  Just saying "not complaining" directly after complaining without details is probably going to just make a modder extremely frustrated.  Details are important as to what you don't like, a large portion of the non-content changes in the upcoming DD update are the result of people being clear and descriptive about what they didn't like about the 4.0 update (key break returning, removal of wait lockout times on generic items ect). 

 

If it is the animations taking too long, or the (4.0) key lockouts, or something different, describing exactly where there are possible issues or improvements to be made is important.

 

Also, there is nothing stopping you setting up DCL to allow you take precautions against getting tied up.  If you turn off "shaky hands" and other key-losing options, you can totally stock safe houses/friendly followers around the world with sets of keys.  If you are playing a DD campaign you might have problems convincing your dungeon master that you totally stashed some healing items and extra gear after getting caught in a nasty trap, when you didn't actually roleplay the stashing in the first place.

[DonQuiWho]

Been looking at the last few posts

 

I just don't cheat.  It's that simple.  But I'm so glad that @Kimy is winding back some of the stuff that made DDi 4 such a PITA.  TurboNerd's Devious Helpers has helped a lot in getting rid of a lot of the drudgery.  Two days and nights hiding from the last guard outside Bleakfalls Barrow whilst trying to get rid of, every two hours, some blasted DD armbinder/broken lock device (I forget which) was just about the last straw. 

 

But I really am now looking forward to the next release - I don't play the beta versions - and a hoped for follow up update on DCL to incorporate a lot of the new toys and fix a couple of weird things

 

That really should properly bring the 'fun factor' back

 

So, more power to Kimy's elbow, as she puts her mitts to the keyboard

[Lothslorien]

Well, it's kind of pleasure to play such an outstanding mod. I just like to ask can I manually set the length of the time of those time-set yoke or belt. It's quite disturbing when my character was put up a time-set yoke and cannot even take it down through the console. Or could you show me where to take it down before the time is up or where to see the time remaining of those equipments?

[qawsedrftg765]

I think the one thing that might be making it harder to quest in Devious Devices is that you can't ask your follower to remove your arm-binder any more. That device, along with yokes and mittens, tend to be a dungeon stopper at the moment; especially the latter as at least you can 'cut' the arm-binder. You can keep slugging through pretty much anything with enough time and patience even when gagged, blind** and wearing loud as heck boots. But good luck kicking that lvl 55 bandit chief to death.

 

If only there was an option to not have those restraints on

Perhaps some sort of MCM toggle, or probability slider

 

**I really recommend immersive first person sexlab edition btw as when you have a blindfold on it the actual blindfold is what blocks your vision.

[qawsedrftg765]

Suggestion: I really like the feature in Captured Dreams where you can pay to have devices removed. Whenever keys broke, or I was starving to death, going 1000s of gold into debt to get a gagged removed seemed worth it. But it has the problem that skyrim always does, you have basically infinite money.

in DCL: I would be great if there was like a 'god of devices' that you could pray to or something that would take your devices off for a massive fee. Even if it was something like taking random items from the player's inventory instead of gold. **Items for the Item god**

Or it could be like a mafia style shakedown, [please read the following in mafia accent] "A real shame about dat' 'dere armbinder love; real shame. Ey dem's some nice boots yis got there tho, i might be inclined to help ya out if youz was inclined to part with them"