Devious Devices - Integration 4.3a (2019-09-10)

[kplh]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm Li said:

Did 4.1 remove the quest?

Nope, 4.0 did.

[Pinute]

56 minutes ago, kplh said:

Nope, 4.0 did.

I'm kinda sad about that. I never did like the Sergius quest, but I really enjoyed playing through Zad's quest line. Those plugs were simple but brutal and the story was fun.

 

I hope someone takes that plugin in hand some day.

[Tyran2]

I have a problem. When I try to add idle to a character in my mod - no DD idles show up to choose (you know - like armbinder or sexy poses). They used to and stopped When I updated.  Did I missed anything? Maybe I deleated something by mistake?

[Kimy]

15 hours ago, Pinute said:

I'm kinda sad about that. I never did like the Sergius quest, but I really enjoyed playing through Zad's quest line. Those plugs were simple but brutal and the story was fun.

 

I hope someone takes that plugin in hand some day.

I might make a quest in the zad quest's spirit one day, but I don't think that we're going to bring back the plugin. Quest content doesn't really belong in a framework.

[Pinute]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

I might make a quest in the zad quest's spirit one day, but I don't think that we're going to bring back the plugin. Quest content doesn't really belong in a framework.

I understood why you took it out. Wasn't it broken, anyway? I haven't run that quest in years.

 

IIRC, Min was pretty clear that the Zad quest was written so we'd have a chance to play with devices. It's not like we need that anymore (obligatory thanks to all ). 

 

If I get an opinion, I hope whoever does take on updating the quest keeps it as close to original as possible. 

 

 

[Nazzzgul666]

On 6/18/2018 at 2:06 PM, Lupine00 said:

On one hand, you have people saying "DD is too big already, stop, stop stop" and right here on the same page, you have requests for new items types, new assets, possibly even new animations.

 

The pressure to grow is ceaseless. It's really hard to push back against that.

 

One of the problems with the animation packs that are around is that many of the animations are not genuinely useful with either DD, or almost any other scenario except special use by scene in a mod's custom quest. For example, the pillory animations...

 

Personally, I'd rather see DD focus on efficiency and improving the animation situation rather than adding more items, though I'd really like to see a furniture system that works, and has non-broken cameras, and doesn't rely on (unreliably) disabling player controls for absolutely everything. I hear rumors that's a possible new DD component. I hope it comes good.

Here's the thing, though: If pillory animations make more sense than armbinder animations depends a lot on your game, i.e installed mods, settings, etc. 

i'd really appretiate if a modder who wants to use an armbinder for a certain scene in a quest would still be able to make DDi a requirement without requiring a lot of bound animations that will never be used in his mod. I don't see why those bound animations have to be within DDi instead of a SLAL pack or something.

 

I'd like to have the possibility to use them, i'd definitly have them in most of my games. But not necessarily in all of them, especially if that means i can't play or make a quest mod that is supposed to use both ZAP 8 and DD, or something similar big. DD itself is NOT the complete game overhaul, it's a framework and doesn't do anything on it's own. And imho it would be nice to consider that there are other mods than Cursed Loot which are not the complete overhaul, but still worth playing.

[Slagblah]

Regarding the difficulty settings.

 

Going from one common setting in 4.0 to the three in 4.1 was a good step, and did address most of the things I didn't like about the way it was handled in 4.0, but I don't think it went far enough. Particularly since the unlock difficulty and struggle difficulty are still controlled by the same value. In my opinion, these two should have separate controls at least. (It should be possible to make unlocking relatively easy, while struggling is hard.) One caveat, however, is that HeavyBondage items should always use the Struggle difficulty, rather than Unlock. This is easy to implement, and I already have the code done, if you want it (even though it is mostly just copy and paste).

 

Of course, splitting off unlock difficulty (or struggle) would leave just repair and the other one left in the common difficulty setting, so you may as well split all of them into separate options. In fact, if you do so, and rearrange the layout of the page a little, then all of the options under "Devices" will fit on one page with no scroll bar.

 

[Kimy]

6 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I don't see why those bound animations have to be within DDi instead of a SLAL pack or something.

I wrote entire essays about that, but the gist is that bound animations make zero sense as SLAL packs, because SL cannot tell when an animation makes no sense outsides of its context, so it will play bound animations even if no actor is bound, if a mod requests a random animation. It's therefore a very bad idea to register bound animations in the regular SL registry. DD has a separate registry to make sure bound animations are used only within bound contexts.

6 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

 

that means i can't play or make a quest mod that is supposed to use both ZAP 8 and DD, or something similar big.

I said that a few times too, but in the near future I cannot imagine how users are supposed to have installed ZAP 8+ and DD4+ in the same load order. Both need a certain amount of resources to function, and users probably won't want to make enough room for both frameworks. Therefore, mods really shouldn't set dependencies on BOTH. ZAP 8 and DD 4+ are not companion mods. They are -competing- products. T.ara has indicated his own stance clearly enough and DD has adapted to that stance accordingly. We respect ZAP 8 as a competitor, but there will be ZERO effort from the DD end to accommodate ZAP 8, or remain compatible with it.

 

[SdenCorp]

I cant get DDI files to show up in bodyslide

[Morferous]

It is quite common that creative goals of frameworks will differ. That is not a big problem. It keeps the game fresh for new playthroughs.

 

I just recently decided to climb out from my Power Armor for a change and visit plains of Skyrim, before starting a new game in FO4 side. I am very interested to see what has been done here.

 

Thank you all for the updates you have made. It will take me a while to figure out compatibility between mods, but generally it looks like that won't be a big problem.

 

Edit: Looks like links to Requirements are busted in the first page.

[Morferous]

5 minutes ago, SdenCorp said:

I cant get DDI files to show up in bodyslide

 

Did you install Devious Devices Assets? DDI doesn't include those files. Assets do.

[SdenCorp]

yes Edit im just going to do a clean install

 

 

[Addasus]

24 minutes ago, SdenCorp said:

I cant get DDI files to show up in bodyslide

I might be mistaken about this, but I don't think DDI has files for bodyslide? I thought that just Assets and Expansion (which show up as DDA and DDX I think) had them. I'm not seeing any DDI group in my bodyslide and I can't think of any items failing to show up in my game.

[Lupine00]

16 hours ago, Pinute said:

Wasn't it broken, anyway? I haven't run that quest in years.

It wasn't broken exactly, just badly designed, so you had to spam the talk button to trigger the dialog in the few moments of script lag before the plugs started up again.

[Lupine00]

13 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

Here's the thing, though: If pillory animations make more sense than armbinder animations depends a lot on your game, i.e installed mods, settings, etc. 

i'd really appretiate if a modder who wants to use an armbinder for a certain scene in a quest would still be able to make DDi a requirement without requiring a lot of bound animations that will never be used in his mod. I don't see why those bound animations have to be within DDi instead of a SLAL pack or something.

I think this is backwards. DD is a framework. Mod X cannot know whether mod Y is also using it. Mod Y might not even have been written when X was released. Mod Y might want those animations that mod X has declared inappropriate.

 

For DD to work, it has to have the animations that DD needs to work. SLAL packs are almost totally useless with DD as is, and I doubt that's going to improve.

 

More likely, if the DD team manages to isolate a few more animations that genuinely work with DD items, then those animations will get into DD eventually, and you won't need the packs. I'm fine with that, because DD should "just work".

 

7 hours ago, Kimy said:

ZAP 8 and DD 4+ are not companion mods. They are -competing- products. T.ara has indicated his own stance clearly enough and DD has adapted to that stance accordingly. We respect ZAP 8 as a competitor, but there will be ZERO effort from the DD end to accommodate ZAP 8, or remain compatible with it.

It's my personal opinion, but - discounting assets - T.ara has never made a mod that got past alpha by any reasonable measure of code quality, while DD and DD4 are definitely of release standard - yes there are some issues, but most things work reliably, and the fix to the corset/chastity stuff in latest DCL whacks one of the more irksome niggles. The DD team worry about quality, not just feature count. In comparison, T.ara seems to abandon a mod at the point it gets 70% done and starts something new and shiny.

 

I know which "product" I would choose to base my work on.

 

Just need some basic DD furniture.

 

On that topic, I'd take the collision off things like the horse etc and make it so an NPC has to put you into it, which would fix all that nonsense where you drop off it and you're stuck in it. Though there are other ways, certainly, but removing collision from milkers made them trouble-free in MME.

[Kethrian]

Everybody that's complaining about a few hundred animations in the DD mods should stop and take a hard look at their mod list, if they're worried about going over 10,000 custom animations.  You're talking about trying to chop back on a mod that is using less than 5% of the animation limit.  What exactly have you installed that is using up the other 95+%?  And, how many of those multiple THOUSANDS of custom animations are actually used to any decent degree?

 

I know I have nowhere near the FNIS limit for custom animations, so I completely support Kimy & crew making more that work with their mods and which have no alternatives available.  I also support that they have, with the armbinder run, given 3 variants and only install 1 set to minimize that animation space usage.

[Lupine00]

12 hours ago, Kethrian said:

Everybody that's complaining about a few hundred animations in the DD mods should stop and take a hard look at their mod list, if they're worried about going over 10,000 custom animations.  You're talking about trying to chop back on a mod that is using less than 5% of the animation limit.  What exactly have you installed that is using up the other 95+%?  And, how many of those multiple THOUSANDS of custom animations are actually used to any decent degree?

I definitely agree.

 

This is a good argument that anyone who has Estrus or Estrus+ installed to think about just how many animations Estrus adds that you will practically never see.

 

The same applies to the suggestion from various mods to install Billy's creature animations. Actually, it's not that many animations, but you are installing those animations, probably for one mod to use maybe once, certainly rarely. Unless you're playing Slaverun of course ... in which case you might get sick of the sight of them.

 

If you have Kom anims, the only mod that uses them to my knowledge is SLAV, and you can simply untick the machine from the future and you don't need them.

 

As for Zaz 8+, it's full of animations you will be extremely lucky to ever see, including a bunch of dance moves that look like they were mo-capped and never cleaned, or rotoscoped using a clockwork mouse. If you need to dump animations ... start there. For most of the animations in that mod the only thing using them is its own test cell.

 

OTOH, I have seen the "stop and fiddle with your chastity belt" animation in DD about one million times (you have to use the Dr. Evil voice when you say it).

[El_Duderino]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

OTOH, I have seen the "stop and fiddle with your chastity belt" animation in DD about one million times (you have to use the Dr. Evil voice when you say it).

Haha, yes, I absolutely love that belt struggle animation but it did get slightly excessive screen time in DD 4.0. With DD 4.1 though that experience should be vastly improved now that there are several more struggle anims for other devices, too (and of course if you grow tired of those you can always change the weights of the polled events in the MCM to make the struggles occur less often).

[Dojo_dude]

There's just so many damn animations in DDiV4, it's very limiting to other SLAL packs and other AA mods.

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, Dojo_dude said:

There's just so many damn animations in DDiV4, it's very limiting to other SLAL packs and other AA mods.

Not sure how often I need to say it, but people need to make choices. If you insist on installing really EVERY SLAL pack out there, you can't use DD. Simple as that.

 

This strange attitude to dump literally every single SLAL pack into one's load order just because it's available for download dates back to the time when we had only a few really good SL animations. I guess people haven't yet noticed that these days are gone and we're drowning in good animations now. People can and have to be picky now. It's however ridiculous to suggest that DD would limit your ability to install a nice selection of SLAL animations. You can still install a lot more than SexLab can reasonably handle.

[Dojo_dude]

6 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Not sure how often I need to say it, but people need to make choices. If you insist on installing really EVERY SLAL pack out there, you can't use DD. Simple as that.

 

This strange attitude to dump literally every single SLAL pack into one's load order just because it's available for download dates back to the time when we had only a few really good SL animations. I guess people haven't yet noticed that these days are gone and we're drowning in good animations now. People can and have to be picky now. It's however ridiculous to suggest that DD would limit your ability to install a nice selection of SLAL animations. You can still install a lot more than SexLab can reasonably handle.

Currently DD is battling More Nasty Critters inside my load order. I'm only using TWO SLAL packs, might have to kick another one.

[Kimy]

Eh, depending on your personal animation count threshold, you still should have -at least- 80-90% of your potential slots open after installing DD. You can't tell me that's not enough to install more SL animations than SL can handle. If you are THAT tight, you need to check your load order for other animation hogs. Lupine00's post above is a good start.

[Reesewow]

27 minutes ago, Dojo_dude said:

Currently DD is battling More Nasty Critters inside my load order. I'm only using TWO SLAL packs, might have to kick another one.

I'd say your issue isn't SLAL-type animations then.  You should look to AA and other animation adding mods instead of Sexlab mods in this case IMO. 

 

I'm running 28 SLAL packs, MNC, FNIS Sexy Moves, Zap 7, Soulgem Oven, EstrusChaurus, and DD 4.1 as my major animation-adding mods for comparison.  The only major change I needed to make to my load order was to downgrade ZAP 8 to ZAP 7.

 

Obviously YMMV - since we don't yet understand how the thresholds relate to load order or data types.

[Dojo_dude]

22 minutes ago, Reesewow said:

I'd say your issue isn't SLAL-type animations then.  You should look to AA and other animation adding mods instead of Sexlab mods in this case IMO. 

 

I'm running 28 SLAL packs, MNC, FNIS Sexy Moves, Zap 7, Soulgem Oven, EstrusChaurus, and DD 4.1 as my major animation-adding mods for comparison.  The only major change I needed to make to my load order was to downgrade ZAP 8 to ZAP 7.

 

Obviously YMMV - since we don't yet understand how the thresholds relate to load order or data types.

Last time I checked, can't find the post right now. I had about 13890 animations and close to 1890 Alternate Animations. I only have Funnybiz, Billyy and PCEA2. However, I'm not sure about 28 SLAL packs, those can't all be larger ones. PCEA2 uses several hundred AA slots, obviously it's an old game and we can't keep jabbing things into it XD

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, Dojo_dude said:

Last time I checked, can't find the post right now. I had about 13890 animations and close to 1890 Alternate Animations. I only have Funnybiz, Billyy and PCEA2. However, I'm not sure about 28 SLAL packs, those can't all be larger ones. PCEA2 uses several hundred AA slots, obviously it's an old game and we can't keep jabbing things into it XD

I'm counting SLAL packs based on how many SLAL windows they take up - Billyy's animations are actually 6 separate SLAL packs (and the main creature ones are very large packs) and I have all of those installed.  Not all of my packs are large of course, a few only have a handful of animations, but I include all the major animator's packs such as Leito's, Anub's, Koms ect.

 

Funnybiz however... if you have all packs of that mod installed you actually are running 16+ separate SLAL packs - some of which are massive in animation count.  Unless you love all of those animations specifically, I'd recommend uninstalling all but your favorite categories of Funnybiz's animations.  That should give you a lot more breathing room to add SLAL packs from other authors that have a much smaller total animation count.  I only have two of his animation packs installed - femdom and group, and the group one is dangerously close to the chopping block because I only use about half of those animations, and all the ones I don't use are still registered in FNIS with 3-5 actors per stage per animation. 

 

To go back to the DD topic - the only specific issue I've had with DD 4.1 so far was an issue with a particular blindfold having no removal dialogue - a different user identified the issue and posted a bug report on the DDX thread.  Issue affects the "red leather blindfold (custom)" and "white leather blindfold (custom)".

 

 

 

Edit: Since a mod just got uploaded requiring ZAP 8 that I want to try, I decided to go ahead and remove Funnybiz's group animation SLAL pack.  Just for information sake, dropping that one Funnybiz option reduced my FNIS animation count by 471(!).  Going from ZAP 7 to ZAP 8 increased it by 836 and added a huge amount of new furniture animations, but without that one SLAL pack I can now run ZAP 8 and DD 4.1 in the same load order (for now).