Devious Devices - Integration 4.3a (2019-09-10)

[ttpt]

Hey, I may not have ponysuits, but I still have the hobble skirts to hobble around in. And that's good enough for me.

[Reesewow]

1 minute ago, ttpt said:

Hey, I may not have ponysuits, but I still have the hobble skirts to hobble around in. And that's good enough for me.

Yup, nothing wrong with taking the old "personal use" scalpel to your mods and chopping them up to suit your needs.  

[BigOnes69]

10 hours ago, Reesewow said:

The difference is mods do not "rely" on All in One pussy or XPMSE's extra animations and holster positions - they are not framework mods in the way the DD mods are.  All in one Pussy is primarily for collisions and hdt ect and mods won't fail if you mix and match your body physics.  The only part of XPMSE that most mods depend on is the actual skeleton file - mods do not care how your character swings her 2 handed axe and so it is completely fine to not install all those extra features.

 

A better example of a framework IMO would be Sexlab itself - mods depend on the framework to do what they expect or they have problems.  For example, mods depend on Sexlab to be heavily scripted and send lots of mod events as to what is happening during a Sexlab scene - many mods use these events to trigger things.  When someone installs a mod like Sexlab Separate Orgasm that directly alters the "framework" by changing or removing these triggers (in this case the Orgasm event), many mods that rely on these features no longer function or behave strangely until a custom patch is installed. 

 

You could "break up" Sexlab into a dozen or so mini mods that each provide one major feature, but that hasn't happened likely because mods rely on those features being present, and because it would be a *massive* effort to pull apart the mod and have it still work no matter what "options" a user picked on install.  As most users would pick "all" anyway, that effort isn't likely to pay off in most cases.

 

For DD mods, it could be a nightmare to troubleshoot people's issues if say a quest involving a gag wasn't working, only to find out that when the user first installed DD they never installed "gags" as an optional install.  If your mod depends on adding a gag and working around that, the framework wouldn't seem reliable if you have to take into account that users may not have the options selected that you want to depend on.  People who help others troubleshoot problems have enough of a struggle simply getting people to understand they need to run Bodyslide to have items actually show up in game without having to deduce that they never installed a core feature a mod requires.

It is not a framework it is an add on to sexlab. Sexlab is the framework and it enhances it. It is their mod and they can do what they like, but truths are simple and people will figure things out. When it becomes so big that you will only have it and Sexlab the only thing that will be is bondage and sex will be for enhancing the bondage instead of the bondage enhancing sex. It is getting to large for the engine to be able to allow more, therefore it should be divided into types and people can install the types they want. This will allow continuation and combinations of other things on a limited system. It will allow people to choose resources on a PURPOSEFULLY LIMITED GAME ENGINE. It is up to them for they are the creators but it seems to me that it is also a power grab and I do not like being a pawn.

[Supertin]

3 hours ago, BigOnes69 said:

It is not a framework it is an add on to sexlab. Sexlab is the framework and it enhances it. It is their mod and they can do what they like, but truths are simple and people will figure things out. When it becomes so big that you will only have it and Sexlab the only thing that will be is bondage and sex will be for enhancing the bondage instead of the bondage enhancing sex. It is getting to large for the engine to be able to allow more, therefore it should be divided into types and people can install the types they want. This will allow continuation and combinations of other things on a limited system. It will allow people to choose resources on a PURPOSEFULLY LIMITED GAME ENGINE. It is up to them for they are the creators but it seems to me that it is also a power grab and I do not like being a pawn.

This is hogwash (lul). While DD hooks into sexlab to allow bound sex animations that supports its devices, DD would work perfectly fine as a framework without any connection to sexlab. Just cause it makes use of sexlab doesn't invalidate -all- the other things. 

In fact the use of sexlab in conjunction with DD and its devices is something that's been neglected too much for far too long now by us (and animators creating compatible animations) so it's one of the things we're working on to improve in the next update.

[ragnam]

7 hours ago, BigOnes69 said:

It is not a framework it is an add on to sexlab. Sexlab is the framework and it enhances it. It is their mod and they can do what they like, but truths are simple and people will figure things out. When it becomes so big that you will only have it and Sexlab the only thing that will be is bondage and sex will be for enhancing the bondage instead of the bondage enhancing sex. It is getting to large for the engine to be able to allow more, therefore it should be divided into types and people can install the types they want. This will allow continuation and combinations of other things on a limited system. It will allow people to choose resources on a PURPOSEFULLY LIMITED GAME ENGINE. It is up to them for they are the creators but it seems to me that it is also a power grab and I do not like being a pawn.

I always thought it would be cool to get slaves and place them at places in the game like at a ore mine, or a chopping block or a guard post. dont think it always has to pimp them out, slave labor? what about slave labor?
Some people might just like the function of the slave capture and put to work, and may not want all the rubber stuff? 
example why does every collar have to be a bondage like iron or leather collar, would be nice to have some high end jewel collars and stick them in the solitude palace? no?
- but I have a few ideas for some new stuff or immersive ideas, but every person is different to what is important to have in the game or not. 
just imagine if one only wanted CBBE sling bikinis in game but had to include UUNP and an forced to down load a clothing stores mod in size which force people to give up something like immersive armors, or similar. the store and bikini can be an add on if people wish to include a store or not. or just addmenuitem them in game if needed.

some people just like the simple common positions and not all the fisting and other things maybe, and if they unchecked them in the slal options or things to be include in game play, they already sucked up SPACE just to disable them in games.
While some like the extreme things, to each his/her own.

But sad when one might have to disable 40-60% of all things included , just saying  
I am thinking about future things and hopes as things mature!!! like a good wine, and not whine !!!

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, Supertin said:

In fact the use of sexlab in conjunction with DD and its devices is something that's been neglected too much for far too long now by us (and animators creating compatible animations) so it's one of the things we're working on to improve in the next update.

Yea, really looking forward to this aspect of future updates - the DD bound animation library has not aged well and I find myself actively disabling the filter when wearing any device other than an armbinder (can't unsee the lack of hands lol).  More polished and varied animations would be huge.

[ttpt]

12 hours ago, BigOnes69 said:

It is not a framework it is an add on to sexlab. Sexlab is the framework and it enhances it. It is their mod and they can do what they like, but truths are simple and people will figure things out. When it becomes so big that you will only have it and Sexlab the only thing that will be is bondage and sex will be for enhancing the bondage instead of the bondage enhancing sex. It is getting to large for the engine to be able to allow more, therefore it should be divided into types and people can install the types they want. This will allow continuation and combinations of other things on a limited system. It will allow people to choose resources on a PURPOSEFULLY LIMITED GAME ENGINE. It is up to them for they are the creators but it seems to me that it is also a power grab and I do not like being a pawn.

I have similar feelings and it's why I've been trying to get an answer with regards to all the inflated numbers coming out of FNIS, the footprint of the mod is becoming too big on the system for what it adds to the game, but I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer about it. On the other end it does seems to mostly tax the animation system and I found a solution to my tastes for that, rather than remove more SLAL pack I can just remove more DD animations from my own installation.

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

6 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Yea, really looking forward to this aspect of future updates - the DD bound animation library has not aged well and I find myself actively disabling the filter when wearing any device other than an armbinder (can't unsee the lack of hands lol).  More polished and varied animations would be huge.

I think an armbinder which works like the straight jacket and cuts of/hides the arms would be great

[Reesewow]

3 hours ago, Gräfin Zeppelin said:

I think an armbinder which works like the straight jacket and cuts of/hides the arms would be great

That could be really cool but I think there would be one major issue with that - the reason the straitjacket works that way is it is actually "chest" armor and completely replaces the body mesh, including hiding the arms.  Armbinders however use a different slot than the body armor slot, so you can wear an armbinder and other body-slot items like catsuits at the same time.

 

A "fancy" armbinder with a lot of extra chest straps ect that acts like a straitjacket and takes up the body slot would be a cool item to have however, and would totally work with most animations since the arms would be invisible, just like with the straitjackets themselves.

[Spionkreutz]

I do not know why that is the case for me Devious Devices - Integration

What can I do about it because I would like to continue I forgot something the 4.00 but the 4.1 will not icmmer I'm really ratos

[qx981314046]

Thank you for sharing

[Lupine00]

On one hand, you have people saying "DD is too big already, stop, stop stop" and right here on the same page, you have requests for new items types, new assets, possibly even new animations.

 

The pressure to grow is ceaseless. It's really hard to push back against that.

 

One of the problems with the animation packs that are around is that many of the animations are not genuinely useful with either DD, or almost any other scenario except special use by scene in a mod's custom quest. For example, the pillory animations... These are useful for PoP, but at other times are just silly. Yet we lack any variety of bound blowjobs, female on female, and many other situations, and when you step past sexlab, there's problem with "bound combat" and the narrow range of devices that works for. And what animations do exist lack a viable mechanism to select them. So often (so very often) I see my Skyrim play a pillory animation when my character is supposed to be giving a blowjob, because it has the keyword oral in there.

 

You can pretty much take out all those SLAL packs and not notice if you have filters on.

 

Personally, I'd rather see DD focus on efficiency and improving the animation situation rather than adding more items, though I'd really like to see a furniture system that works, and has non-broken cameras, and doesn't rely on (unreliably) disabling player controls for absolutely everything. I hear rumors that's a possible new DD component. I hope it comes good.

[Wilhelm Li]

Did 4.1 remove the quest?

[kplh]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm Li said:

Did 4.1 remove the quest?

Nope, 4.0 did.

[Pinute]

56 minutes ago, kplh said:

Nope, 4.0 did.

I'm kinda sad about that. I never did like the Sergius quest, but I really enjoyed playing through Zad's quest line. Those plugs were simple but brutal and the story was fun.

 

I hope someone takes that plugin in hand some day.

[Tyran2]

I have a problem. When I try to add idle to a character in my mod - no DD idles show up to choose (you know - like armbinder or sexy poses). They used to and stopped When I updated.  Did I missed anything? Maybe I deleated something by mistake?

[Kimy]

15 hours ago, Pinute said:

I'm kinda sad about that. I never did like the Sergius quest, but I really enjoyed playing through Zad's quest line. Those plugs were simple but brutal and the story was fun.

 

I hope someone takes that plugin in hand some day.

I might make a quest in the zad quest's spirit one day, but I don't think that we're going to bring back the plugin. Quest content doesn't really belong in a framework.

[Pinute]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

I might make a quest in the zad quest's spirit one day, but I don't think that we're going to bring back the plugin. Quest content doesn't really belong in a framework.

I understood why you took it out. Wasn't it broken, anyway? I haven't run that quest in years.

 

IIRC, Min was pretty clear that the Zad quest was written so we'd have a chance to play with devices. It's not like we need that anymore (obligatory thanks to all ). 

 

If I get an opinion, I hope whoever does take on updating the quest keeps it as close to original as possible. 

 

 

[Nazzzgul666]

On 6/18/2018 at 2:06 PM, Lupine00 said:

On one hand, you have people saying "DD is too big already, stop, stop stop" and right here on the same page, you have requests for new items types, new assets, possibly even new animations.

 

The pressure to grow is ceaseless. It's really hard to push back against that.

 

One of the problems with the animation packs that are around is that many of the animations are not genuinely useful with either DD, or almost any other scenario except special use by scene in a mod's custom quest. For example, the pillory animations...

 

Personally, I'd rather see DD focus on efficiency and improving the animation situation rather than adding more items, though I'd really like to see a furniture system that works, and has non-broken cameras, and doesn't rely on (unreliably) disabling player controls for absolutely everything. I hear rumors that's a possible new DD component. I hope it comes good.

Here's the thing, though: If pillory animations make more sense than armbinder animations depends a lot on your game, i.e installed mods, settings, etc. 

i'd really appretiate if a modder who wants to use an armbinder for a certain scene in a quest would still be able to make DDi a requirement without requiring a lot of bound animations that will never be used in his mod. I don't see why those bound animations have to be within DDi instead of a SLAL pack or something.

 

I'd like to have the possibility to use them, i'd definitly have them in most of my games. But not necessarily in all of them, especially if that means i can't play or make a quest mod that is supposed to use both ZAP 8 and DD, or something similar big. DD itself is NOT the complete game overhaul, it's a framework and doesn't do anything on it's own. And imho it would be nice to consider that there are other mods than Cursed Loot which are not the complete overhaul, but still worth playing.

[Slagblah]

Regarding the difficulty settings.

 

Going from one common setting in 4.0 to the three in 4.1 was a good step, and did address most of the things I didn't like about the way it was handled in 4.0, but I don't think it went far enough. Particularly since the unlock difficulty and struggle difficulty are still controlled by the same value. In my opinion, these two should have separate controls at least. (It should be possible to make unlocking relatively easy, while struggling is hard.) One caveat, however, is that HeavyBondage items should always use the Struggle difficulty, rather than Unlock. This is easy to implement, and I already have the code done, if you want it (even though it is mostly just copy and paste).

 

Of course, splitting off unlock difficulty (or struggle) would leave just repair and the other one left in the common difficulty setting, so you may as well split all of them into separate options. In fact, if you do so, and rearrange the layout of the page a little, then all of the options under "Devices" will fit on one page with no scroll bar.

 

[Kimy]

6 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

I don't see why those bound animations have to be within DDi instead of a SLAL pack or something.

I wrote entire essays about that, but the gist is that bound animations make zero sense as SLAL packs, because SL cannot tell when an animation makes no sense outsides of its context, so it will play bound animations even if no actor is bound, if a mod requests a random animation. It's therefore a very bad idea to register bound animations in the regular SL registry. DD has a separate registry to make sure bound animations are used only within bound contexts.

6 hours ago, Nazzzgul666 said:

 

that means i can't play or make a quest mod that is supposed to use both ZAP 8 and DD, or something similar big.

I said that a few times too, but in the near future I cannot imagine how users are supposed to have installed ZAP 8+ and DD4+ in the same load order. Both need a certain amount of resources to function, and users probably won't want to make enough room for both frameworks. Therefore, mods really shouldn't set dependencies on BOTH. ZAP 8 and DD 4+ are not companion mods. They are -competing- products. T.ara has indicated his own stance clearly enough and DD has adapted to that stance accordingly. We respect ZAP 8 as a competitor, but there will be ZERO effort from the DD end to accommodate ZAP 8, or remain compatible with it.

 

[SdenCorp]

I cant get DDI files to show up in bodyslide

[Morferous]

It is quite common that creative goals of frameworks will differ. That is not a big problem. It keeps the game fresh for new playthroughs.

 

I just recently decided to climb out from my Power Armor for a change and visit plains of Skyrim, before starting a new game in FO4 side. I am very interested to see what has been done here.

 

Thank you all for the updates you have made. It will take me a while to figure out compatibility between mods, but generally it looks like that won't be a big problem.

 

Edit: Looks like links to Requirements are busted in the first page.

[Morferous]

5 minutes ago, SdenCorp said:

I cant get DDI files to show up in bodyslide

 

Did you install Devious Devices Assets? DDI doesn't include those files. Assets do.

[SdenCorp]

yes Edit im just going to do a clean install