Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[Herowynne]

11 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

If I want to check it would be enough to exchange the installed esp with the original downloaded ones right?

Yes.

[donttouchmethere]

4 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

Yes.

Sorry, but you're correct! ?

newest DFC esp is already modified with your modification

newest SLS esp still needs to be modified

[donttouchmethere]

This would be the topic for the DFC key forcegreet:

_DFlowModDealControllerKeyForceGreetTopic [DIAL:0B2BCCA0]

 

[INFO:0B2BCC9D] ('You agreed to give me your keys. I hope you're being honest with me, but as you can't be trusted I'm going to have to search you.' in GRUP Topic Children of _DFlowModDealControllerKeyForceGreetTopic [DIAL:0B2BCCA0])

 

 

It triggers via SLTR and without having a DFC deal running

[Rob_J]

is there a way to set the submission score or speed it up more, really not sure why I can't get the number going up

[Lupine00]

3 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

It triggers via SLTR and without having a DFC deal running

How would that even happen?

Clearly, it's a topic (and info) unique to DFC, and its driven by an AI package in DFC, that itself is gated off a global that is in DFC.

 

A conflict, or SLTR are almost certain not to be to blame for anything weird going on with that dialog; it would be a pure DFC issue (or a broken game).

Some kind of reproduction case would help here.

 

I'm not sure how the original case was really ever a conflict, in that - as far as I can see - you could resolve it by clicking on the dialog and letting it do the thing it was designed to do. The same thing would be the case here.

 

That two quests can set blocking dialog, and one wins and the other loses, can happen with any mod and a vanilla blocking dialog (albeit they are rare).

DFC has quite a few blocking dialogs. It can probably even happen in vanilla if you're ingenious enough.

 

 

I'm not even clear what the problem is for players, as the old issue was blocking dialogs, and this new dialog issue is a forcegreet.

 

If there's an issue here, could somebody explain what it is, and how to reproduce it?

[HexBolt8]

15 minutes ago, Rob_J said:

is there a way to set the submission score or speed it up more, really not sure why I can't get the number going up

Score mainly increases by offering service to your owner.  If you're waiting until your owner gets bored and makes a demand, your score won't increase much.  You can increase the growth rate by up to double on the first page of the MCM.

[donttouchmethere]

40 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

How would that even happen?

Good question ^^

I only report what I see ingame.

 

It goes like this:

DFC follower = no deals yet

sLola Mistress = PC status enslaved

 

sLola Mistress force greets PC, but before the slola dialogue shows up she will say that she checks if the collar is in good condition and [checks for keys], which is a DFC dialogue that should only show up if deals (or a specific deal) is active.

 

sLola forcegreets often, means I see the DFC comment a lot.

After the DFC comment is finished the sLola dialogue and comment shows up.

 

I would need to make a countertest:

no sLola enslavement and only DFC follower without deals

if the DFC "key/collar check" dialogue show up, I would say it's a bug from DFC unrelated to SLtR (because that dialogue shouldn't show up without deals).

[donttouchmethere]

40 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I'm not sure how the original case was really ever a conflict, in that - as far as I can see - you could resolve it by clicking on the dialog and letting it do the thing it was designed to do. The same thing would be the case here.

Stylistics! (I guess)

What would be a better word for conflict?

Bug, glitch, minor interaction, annoyance?

[HexBolt8]

9 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

sLola Mistress force greets PC, but before the slola dialogue shows up she will say that she checks if the collar is in good condition and [checks for keys], which is a DFC dialogue that should only show up if deals (or a specific deal) is active.

Let me clarify again that SLTR does have a collar check event.  I don't know if DFC has one too.  The exact greeting from SLTR is "It's time for a collar check.  Hold still."  If you see that, it's coming from this mod.  The owner NPC will then say that it looks okay, and end the conversation.  SLTR does not have a key check event, though you can configure it to automatically take your keys (without dialog).

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

If there's an issue here, could somebody explain what it is, and how to reproduce it?

Test 01:

Get enslaved by SLtR by a follower

Have another follower that will be the DFC follower, but pay regularly and don't start any DFC deals.

 

Test 02:

Add a follower and get SLtR enslaved

The same follower will be also registered by DFC as DFC follower, don't start any DFC deals

 

Test 03:

Only have a DFC follower (nothing should happen unless willpower is low or debt is high I guess?)

 

Test 04:

Only SLtR enslaved with newest SLtR version (in that case [check for keys] shouldn't show up)

 

EDIT:

In my case I had SLtR key removal deactivated.

DFC follower is the same follower that is the SLtR dom.

No DFC deals started yet and no debt, still I get a "check for keys" every time SLtR Dom starts a conversation.

[HexBolt8]

32 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Test 01:

Get enslaved by SLtR by a follower

Have another follower that will be the DFC follower, but pay regularly and don't start any DFC deals.

SLTR follower (the "owner") should only have SLTR dialog.  DFC follower (the "DF") should only have DFC dialog.

 

32 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Test 02:

Add a follower and get SLtR enslaved

The same follower will be also registered by DFC as DFC follower, don't start any DFC deals

That follower will have SLTR dialog.  DFC will determine what lines from DFC that the follower will say.  Are you sure that DFC key checks can't occur without a deal?  (I don't know.)

 

32 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Test 03:

Only have a DFC follower (nothing should happen unless willpower is low or debt is high I guess?)

Can't really comment, other than to repeat are you sure that DFC key checks can't occur without a deal?

 

32 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Test 04:

Only SLtR enslaved with newest SLtR version (in that case [check for keys] shouldn't show up)

Yes, no DFC dialog should appear.  Is it?

 

32 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

DFC follower is the same follower that is the SLtR dom.

No DFC deals started yet and no debt, still I get a "check for keys" every time SLtR Dom starts a conversation.

You're assuming that DFC key checks shouldn't occur without a deal.  Maybe that's correct; I don't know.  Seeing it every time that the follower tries to initiate a SLTR conversation could just be a mod conflict, though I don't understand why it's every time rather than a periodic thing.  If two mods try to do force greetings with blocking dialog at the same time, one wins and one loses.  Perhaps the lesson is that it's no longer viable to have one follower take on both roles as DF and SLTR owner.

[donttouchmethere]

Before I get totally confused:

SLtR:

[INFO:0A060395] ('It's time for a collar check.  Hold still.' in GRUP Topic Children of vkjSimpleDomActionBranchTopic [DIAL:0A02A4E5])

>> I see that sometimes.

 

DFC:

[INFO:0B2BCC9D] ('You agreed to give me your keys. I hope you're being honest with me, but as you can't be trusted I'm going to have to search you.' in GRUP Topic Children of _DFlowModDealControllerKeyForceGreetTopic [DIAL:0B2BCCA0])

>> I see that a lot without any deals (and also without any effect) before the SLtR dialogue shows up

 

Just checked for screenshots:

No DFC deal is running and no debt, still I get regularly this (if SLtR Mistress force greets):

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe it's not a conflict but DFC is confused?

 

Because the DFC dialogue triggers everytime SLtR dom starts a forcegreet I see sometimes also this combo that confused me:

 

You agreed to give me your keys. I hope you're being honest with me, but as you can't be trusted I'm going to have to search you

[searches you for keys]

 

followed by:

It's time for a collar check.  Hold still.

[donttouchmethere]

10 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

Are you sure that DFC key checks can't occur without a deal?

I think so, because there was never a dialogue from DFC to start a deal and in DFC MCM is no deal active

 

Also the DFC dialogue shows up every time SLtR mistress wants something = it happens a lot during only one ingame day (as seen on the screenshots).

 

I will check what happens if I get another follower and move DFC follower status to the new follower.

Maybe that solves the issue already *toitoitoi*

[Lupine00]

56 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Because the DFC dialogue triggers everytime SLtR dom starts a forcegreet I see sometimes also this combo that confused me:

 

Could be that there is some kind of Skyrim bug that causes this?

 

The topic in DFC is in a "normal" (non top-level) branch.

 

So, because it's not top-level, it shouldn't show up unless it's being explicitly shown by something, such as a branch flow, or a forcegreet AI package.

 

 

If this were to show up on just any forcegreet, we'd be seeing other forcegreets showing up all over the place too. Like ... the guard dialog that was an issue before.

So, there really may be such a bug.

 

 

I have to wonder what the point of specifying a dialog in a forcegreet package is, if Skyrim is just going to show any old topics that are used in other forcegreets?

Clearly, it should only show the explicitly triggered topic.

And from these reports, in at least some games, it's showing dialogs that it shouldn't.

 

 

Possibly, in this case, the cause is that SLTR has a forcegreet dialog that is set "top level" instead of normal?

If we can rule that out, then it's a Skyrim bug feature, that may require an additional workaround.

 

If the SLTR dialogs aren't top-level, then...

I think the additional workaround is to put conditions on (all) forcegreet dialogs, but there are risks with that if the package runs and then the line is blocked by conditions perhaps?

But assuming the conditions are correct, it might solve the issue, if there is an issue.

 

 

In that case, SLRT probably also needs to add some dialog conditions to its forcegreets, so it doesn't end up with its topics showing up on guards, or the wrong follower.

 

But the first thing is to rule out the possibility that SLRT or SLS, or some other mod, isn't the cause of problems because it's setting forcegreet package branches to be top-level instead of normal.

[Herowynne]

1 hour ago, donttouchmethere said:

In my case I had SLtR key removal deactivated.  <— same for me

DFC follower is the same follower that is the SLtR dom.  <— different followers for me

I get a "check for keys" every time SLtR Dom starts a conversation.  <— same for me

 

 

42 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Also the DFC dialogue shows up every time SLtR mistress wants something = it happens a lot during only one ingame day (as seen on the screenshots).  <— same for me, DFC key check dialogue every time Lola speaks to her SubLola mistress, who is not a Devious Follower 

 

[donttouchmethere]

1 hour ago, Herowynne said:

DFC follower is the same follower that is the SLtR dom.  <— different followers for me

awww, damn, but I thought so already.

Thanks for confirming.

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

If this were to show up on just any forcegreet, we'd be seeing other forcegreets showing up all over the place too. Like ... the guard dialog that was an issue before.

So, there really may be such a bug.

I also have DEC that regularly force greets, but it doesn't trigger any comment from DFC.

SLS force greets too (toll, guards), but it doesn't trigger any comment from DFC.

 

SLtR and SLS are now in my LO for 650 hours and they didn't effect each other (anymore after Herowynne's hack)

 

Only after I added DFC to the game SLtR started to show the DFC key comment before every force greet.

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

In that case, SLRT probably also needs to add some dialog conditions to its forcegreets, so it doesn't end up with its topics showing up on guards, or the wrong follower.

That maybe also be true, because SLtR stole comments from:

Riften Gate Guard dialog (the bribe dialogue, after that is finished SLtR can't steal it anymore^^)

SLS begging dialogue (workaround via Tes5edit by modifying SLS)

DFC "ForcedStartStage20DiaTopic" (workaround via Tes5edit modifying DFC)

and newest: DFC "'You agreed to give me your keys. I hope you're being honest with me, but as you can't be trusted I'm going to have to search you" (workaround pending)

 

And there seems to be even an order how that happens:

1. Riften Gate Guard bribedialogue, if that is finished

2. SLS dialogue, if that gets solved via Tes5edit

3. DFC dialogue, if that gets solved nothing interferes with SLtR anymore (or the other way around)

new 4. DFC key dialogue

 

In all cases SLtR gets effected but not the other way around.

 

For some reason those are the only dialogue branches SLtR kidnapped

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, Herowynne said:

Also the DFC dialogue shows up every time SLtR mistress wants something

Can you confirm that this is: 

"You agreed to give me your keys. I hope you're being honest with me, but as you can't be trusted I'm going to have to search you."

 

and not

 

"Time to check that you're being honest about your keys."

 

 

It's a bit of a coincidence for it to show up every time that SLTR wants to have a chat with you.

And as it's a normal dialog, triggered by a completely other package, it's a puzzle why it would show up.

 

If this is exactly what's happening, then it's a bug with forcegreet dialogs, and conditions are required to workaround it.

(Hopefully, that will work around it).

That would work both ways.

 

I've already updated the guard and key dialogs for DFC.

 

Try this ESP and see if it stops the DFC dialogs showing up where they should not:

DeviousFollowers SLRT fix test ESP.7z

 

If this works, then I'll make a point release.

Also, other mods may also need to add some conditions if they aren't strict enough already.

[donttouchmethere]

44 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Can you confirm that this is: 

"You agreed to give me your keys. I hope you're being honest with me, but as you can't be trusted I'm going to have to search you.

yes that's the one.

I also posted screenshots here:

3 hours ago, donttouchmethere said:

Just checked for screenshots:

No DFC deal is running and no debt, still I get regularly this (if SLtR Mistress force greets):

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

Try this ESP and see if it stops the DFC dialogs showing up where they should not:

aye aye

[donttouchmethere]

6 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Try this ESP and see if it stops the DFC dialogs showing up where they should not:

DeviousFollowers SLRT fix test ESP.7z 138.15 kB · 1 download

 

If this works, then I'll make a point release.

YEEHAW!

It worked!

No more DFC comment before SLtR comment and dialogue ?

Thank you so much =D

What ever you did there it hit the spot ‼️

[BigOnes69]

32 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

 What ever you did there it hit the spot ‼️

It certainly was a mouthfull. LOL

[donttouchmethere]

6 minutes ago, BigOnes69 said:

It certainly was a mouthfull. LOL

?

I'm so happy that it works, now I need to clean up all that spilled happiness ?

[Corsec]

What are the requirements for an NPC to become an sLOLA follower? Do they just have to be an NPC that is a member of the follower factions?

 

I checked the Owner recruitment dialogue and it seemed like the only relevant condition was that the NPC must belong to the following faction-

"CurrentFollowerFaction [FACT:0005C84E]"

 

Are there any other conditions that exclude an NPC from becoming an sLOLA follower? Can generic NPCs like bandits become sLOLA followers if they aren't currently hostile?

 

If I add the CurrentFollowerFaction to a generic NPC, like a bandit or guard, by using console commands can they then become an sLOLA follower?

 

EDIT: The reason I'm asking is because I'd like to know if I can use sLOLA as a post-combat defeat mod by spawning clones of humanoid enemies, pacifying them, giving them the follower factions and then recruiting them as sLOLA Owners. If so, then I could use this mod to replace SD+.

[donttouchmethere]

Me need to know (too)!

Spoiler

 

 

[Lupine00]

1 hour ago, donttouchmethere said:

What ever you did there it hit the spot

It seems to be the case, that with ForceGreet type topics, ALL forcegreet topics are shown if the forcegreet AI package runs, regardless of whether they are in a top-level branch or not.

 

Apparently, conditions must be used to restrict them, even though this wouldn't occur with normal dialogs.

 

This leaves me puzzled as to what is the point of specifying the dialog in the AI package, if it just fires all forcegreet dialogs?!

 

It's self-evidential that two AI packages can't be active at the same time (but hey, it's Skyrim) and the conditions I added confirm this.

So it really must be the SLTR package firing every forcegreet somehow, even non-top-level ones.

 

 

I'm curious if there is something odd about that package that could make this unique to SLTR, or whether it's just a big old Skyrim bug.

 

 

[HexBolt8]

1 hour ago, Corsec said:

What are the requirements for an NPC to become an sLOLA follower? Do they just have to be an NPC that is a member of the follower factions?

It also must have ActorTypeNPC, excluding creature followers.

 

1 hour ago, Corsec said:

If I add the CurrentFollowerFaction to a generic NPC, like a bandit or guard, by using console commands can they then become an sLOLA follower?

At a minimum, you'd want to avoid trying that with an NPC that can despawn.  There might also be problems with standard follower dialog if the bandit's voice type isn't supported, if you care about that.