Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[belegost]

Observed on version 2.0.44 SE:

 

Hirelings dialogue doesn't seem to get updated if the enslavement is started by other means than talking to them and before reading the Lola book.

 

Steps to repro:

 

1. New game, did NOT read the Lola book

2. Went to Windhelm and designated Stenvar as Simple Slavery buyer. Did not hire him by either means.

3. Got beat up by Hired Thugs (vanilla quest), ended up in auction hall through DAYMOYL/Defeat

4. Got bought by Stenvar with Lola quest starting up correctly

 

Result: though he's acting as a regular follower and a master, he still has a hireling dialogue options "Consider yourself hired (500)" and "Another time". Paying his fee doesn't change his status, just gets rid of the dialogues and loses the player 500 gold.

Edited April 19, 2022 by belegost

[Hex Bolt]

7 hours ago, belegost said:

Hirelings dialogue doesn't seem to get updated if the enslavement is started by other means than talking to them and before reading the Lola book.

Thank you very much for the detailed problem description and steps to reproduce!  Most of the reports that I get are so minimal that I can't understand what the person thinks is wrong.

 

I think I can fix that.  If you're still having the problem, you can run "addfac BD738" on Stenvar to add him to the CurrentHireling faction.  For the next update, I'll have the mod do that automatically for hirelings.

[belegost]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Thank you very much for the detailed problem description and steps to reproduce!  Most of the reports that I get are so minimal that I can't understand what the person thinks is wrong.

 

I worked in QA for 10 years. I appreciate the compliment but that was a very sloppy bug report if judged by the industry standard.

 

9 hours ago, belegost said:

Paying his fee doesn't change his status, just gets rid of the dialogues and loses the player 500 gold.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

If you're still having the problem, you can run "addfac BD738" on Stenvar to add him to the CurrentHireling faction.

 

What I meant here is that he has the dialogue branch, not that he's not added as a follower/hireling. This dialogue branch disappears after selecting it and paying the 500 septims if he's already your master (as expected), but it does not break him in any way. Probably should've worded it differently to make it clear.

 

I can also test the same scenario with handover from Public Whore if you'd like, but I suspect the result may be similar. That was actually my original plan, but hired thugs got to me faster than I could demand from PW thane to cancel my uhm... "duties".

Edited April 19, 2022 by belegost

[Hex Bolt]

34 minutes ago, belegost said:

I worked in QA for 10 years. I appreciate the compliment but that was a very sloppy bug report if judged by the industry standard.

Fair enough, but by forum standards "steps to reproduce" are like words from heaven, and you also quoted "Consider yourself hired" so I found that record easily.

 

37 minutes ago, belegost said:

What I meant here is that he has the dialogue branch, not that he's not added as a follower/hireling.

I understood.  "Consider yourself hired" has the condition that the hireling must not be in the CurrentHireling faction.  I've just updated the script to move hirelings into CurrentHireling (if they weren't already) when enslavement starts, and remove them from the faction (if you didn't pay gold to hire) when enslavement ends.  That should hide the "Consider yourself hired" line during enslavement.

 

Because this mod will not dismiss a follower, if you gain a hireling by becoming a slave and then leave enslavement, that hireling will still be your follower although "Consider yourself hired" will appear again.  At that point, you should either dismiss the hireling or pay him, but this mod won't force you.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

New Wall-o'-Text™!  All notes come from 2.0.51.  In no particular order...

• You mentioned in passing recently that you feel like there could stand to be more variety of events that can happen in the wilderness, so I've been trying to come up with some ideas to that end:
  • Mistress might say something to the effect of, "When I was a little girl(/boy), I used to love watching the wild horses frolic and play.  Well, there aren't any wild horses around here, but I have the next best thing—you." → Results in the PC being equipped in her Pony Girl outfit for the next couple of hours.
  • In the wild, in the evening (e.g., maybe 20:00–00:00), Mistress might say something like, "There's a definite chill in the air tonight!  Fortunately, I brought a pleasure slave to keep me warm.  Come here, pet!  Snuggle up with your Mistress!"  This would call SexLab animations tagged "Foreplay" or "Cuddling".  Such animations are underutilised currently, too, so I'm always happy to find excuses to see them.  
• If you're in first person view, kneeling fails to lock your movement.  It also doesn't change the camera height.
• Revisiting a much earlier discussion about having some kind of elopement/marriage integrated into SLTR, I've been messing with using NFF's elopement with Mistress, and I can see a potential benefit that wasn't brought up when this was discussed previously:  Marriage/elopement sets your spouse's disposition to +4, which changes the vanilla dialogues the follower will say to the PC—more affection, less deference, e.g., "Yes, my Thane?" is replaced with, "What is it, sweetie?"  I reckon the vanilla Lover dialogues are a better fit for a well-trained pet than the Ally dialogues.  On that basis, I could see a case to be made for setting Mistress and Lola as being married—through elopement, without any ceremony or other acknowledgement—perhaps as a part of "Tagged", or potentially even throughout the duration of enslavement.  
  • Maybe better would just be to set the relationship rank between Mistress and the player to Lover so you don't get the unimmersive "Has the store made any money?" nonsense?  You could potentially even dynamically change the relationship rank based on submission score, which could be cool.  I don't know if it would break anything to set the rank to -1 to pull Rival dialogues for a current follower, but that might be cool for low scores, too.
    • Just directly modifying relationship ranks wouldn't achieve my original motivation for supporting the idea when it was first brought up, though, which was to make third-party NPCs treat Lola as "taken", but maybe that'd be outweighed by the dialogue benefits of manipulating the disposition system directly.
• Can "Clean Sweep" re-equip your previously-equipped power when it un-equips the Sweep power at the end?  
• Would it be possible to let us select a playmate through dialogue instead of having to get into the MCM?
• The drums aren't looping during dances.  So if you extend dancing duration in the MCM settings, or if pause during a dance, you'll finish the dance in awkward silence.
• Gold share is sharing the gold Mistress reimburses Lola during Run, Lola, Run!
• "Very well, but this time I'm going to watch someone else do the spanking." → This would be another low-hanging fruit for Playmate role differentiation; likewise for "I'm going to watch someone else fuck you."  → The current dialogue is a little awkward, but if it were written with a specific playmate relationship in mind, it could easily sound a lot more natural.
• Voice file for introducing the nudity rule plays "Once it is dead, the rules go back into effect" twice in a row instead of mentioning the dragons.  The subtitles are correct, so I guess this is a problem with the dialogue patch?
• Had a situation where Mistress stole my gold, too, when taking her remaining gold back after a purchase.  Haven't been able to replicate it.
• Coming back to the earlier discussion of gold sharing and merchants, a further advantage to sharing net transactions—if you could find a way to make it work—would be to avoid getting screwed so much by rounding.  By sharing each sale individually, you're massively impacted by rounding, especially in the early game when you're dealing with a lot of low-value items.
• In dialogue, Mistress says, "each time I spank you, you become a little bit more submissive, and I have you begging me for it.  Delightful!"  But, according to the mod's logic, I don't actually become any more submissive.  What gives?! O_o Maybe begging for spanks should give a small score boost?
  • Also, I think I might've mentioned this before, but the current PC dialogue for "begging" hardly feels worthy of the word.
• If you save before asking Mistress to buy you training, then quit out during the allotted thirty seconds, when you reload, you'll keep the discount.
• Returning to the earlier discussion of finding places to work in, "Good girl, Lola!"  I reckon "immediate service" for "Run, Lola, Run" would be an ideal opportunity for this.
• When spending Mistress's gold, beast race females offer a choice of dance+sex or just dance.  Why can't we dance for the incompatible gender, too, then?  And from there, since it seems like the mod can figure out whether the target is a beast race or humanoid, why can't it also determine gender internally without the need to specify through the dialogue with Mistress?
  • For one, ever since this was implemented, I've felt like it was strange that I didn't have to do anything at all—i.e., most probably, dancing—with the opposite gender.  Plus, if you could model a solution off of this, it would let you simplify the currently unwieldy dialogue when asking Mistress to buy you something.
• When you fail "Run, Lola, Run" for time, but you have the item, why can't you give it to Mistress anyway?  A "lesser failure" condition—versus returning empty-handed—would be nice, but more than that, I worked hard to fetch that thing—so hard, in fact, that it took me more than an hour—so it feels bad for Mistress to ignore it.  She scolds me for returning empty handed, but I didn't!  I'm just late!
• Not sure if there's a solution here—maybe something with hidden quest stages?—but during "Working Slave", Mistress makes prostitution-related comments when Lola is having sex regardless of whether the target is a client or something unrelated.

[CaptainJ03]

11 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

If you're in first person view, kneeling fails to lock your movement.  It also doesn't change the camera height.

IIRC that's intended - you can move a bit in 3rd person view too.

That mis-aligned perspective is really a nuisance, it's the same when you're crawling. NPCs acknowledge by looking down to you, that you're actually taking a lower position, but your perspective on the world stays the same. I normally play in 3rd person view, but for trying to interact with anything while I'm down, I have to change to 1st person, because I cannot hit the simplest things. I'd blame this on animation mechanics. Maybe some animation expert could tell more - or even find a fix. High Heel scripts add some inches to your perspective, why not the other way round?!

 

11 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

When you fail "Run, Lola, Run" for time, but you have the item, why can't you give it to Mistress anyway?  A "lesser failure" condition—versus returning empty-handed—would be nice, but more than that, I worked hard to fetch that thing—so hard, in fact, that it took me more than an hour—so it feels bad for Mistress to ignore it.  She scolds me for returning empty handed, but I didn't!  I'm just late!

Yes, that also bugged me for some time!

 

[agukiin51]

14 minutes ago, CaptainJ03 said:

IIRC that's intended - you can move a bit in 3rd person view too.

That mis-aligned perspective is really a nuisance, it's the same when you're crawling. NPCs acknowledge by looking down to you, that you're actually taking a lower position, but your perspective on the world stays the same. I normally play in 3rd person view, but for trying to interact with anything while I'm down, I have to change to 1st person, because I cannot hit the simplest things. I'd blame this on animation mechanics. Maybe some animation expert could tell more - or even find a fix. High Heel scripts add some inches to your perspective, why not the other way round?!

 

Yes, that also bugged me for some time!

 

Hello!, I use this to have the same vision, in 1st and 3rd person, it is not yet very successful, but it is certainly an option to consider. You try it and tell us!, Greetings! 

IMPROVED CAMERA - SAME ANIMATIONS 3 PERSON IN 1 PERSON, (Nexus). (I'm sorry I didn't put the link, but I really have no idea if nexus links are allowed here, I'm a newbie and I prefer to be cautious.)

Edited April 22, 2022 by agukiin51

[agukiin51]

Hello, I have translated your mod into Spanish, version 2.0.51, for SSE, (I wouldn't mind doing another one for LE). I told you a long time ago, it's finished, I also translated the MCM menu. I pass it to you or I upload it or how do I do it? I'm a newbie in this world, forgive my ignorance....

 

@HexBolt8

[Hex Bolt]

25 minutes ago, agukiin51 said:

I have translated your mod into Spanish, version 2.0.51, for SSE, (I wouldn't mind doing another one for LE).

For this mod, there's no significant difference between LE & SE (that's why there's only one download, rather than separate ones for LE & SE).  If you send it to me, I can post it here.  Thanks!

[agukiin51]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

For this mod, there's no significant difference between LE & SE (that's why there's only one download, rather than separate ones for LE & SE).  If you send it to me, I can post it here.  Thanks!

I have already sent you ?

[Onomatophobia]

Speaking about the ideas for wilderness events, how about this one? Mistress is tired of walking / found some nice view to enjoy - and wants to sit down. Alas, you cant have a chair in the wilderness, so the Mistress will use Lola as a chair! So you get on all fours and Mistress gets her deserved rest - for a minute or so.

 

Also it would be nice to have some denial - right now Mistress always finds what to do when you offer service, but what if there was a chance that Mistress doesnt want anything? You cant expect her to humour you every time you offer service now, can you? So, sometimes she may dismiss you without doing anything when you offer (always counting towards your daily quota), maybe sometimes even gagging the player, because Lola constantly pestering her with offers can be annoying too.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Onomatophobia

[Antiope_Apollonia]

51 minutes ago, Onomatophobia said:

Mistress is tired of walking / found some nice view to enjoy - and wants to sit down. Alas, you cant have a chair in the wilderness, so the Mistress will use Lola as a chair! So you get on all fours and Mistress gets her deserved rest - for a minute or so.

Not sure how well that fits into SLTR.  As far as I know, there's a conscious choice to avoid events that require the player to remain passive.  But maybe there could be some way to keep the player actively involved?  Maybe something like the struggle minigame from Devious Lore, where if you fail, you drop Mistress, and she's angry?  Might not be worth the trouble, though; not sure.

  

51 minutes ago, Onomatophobia said:

but what if there was a chance that Mistress doesnt want anything? You cant expect her to humour you every time you offer service now, can you? [...] maybe sometimes even gagging the player, because Lola constantly pestering her with offers can be annoying too.

I like it.  "Mistress, may I be of service?" → "No, but you can give me some peace and quiet for a while.  I'm trying to listen to the birdsong, Lola!" [Gag equipped.]

Edited April 23, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Onomatophobia]

9 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Not sure how well that fits into SLTR.  As far as I know, there's a conscious choice to avoid events that require the player to remain passive.  But maybe there could be some way to keep the player actively involved?  Maybe something like the struggle minigame from Devious Lore, where if you fail, you drop Mistress, and she's angry?  Might not be worth the trouble, though; not sure.

 

Thats the point of the event actually - to have some downtime instead of action, always refreshing if its not triggered too often.

As for minigame - a simple stamina drain can be enough. If you reach zero stamina - you drop Mistress. Shouldnt be too strong though, having player constantly chug stamina potions sounds silly.

[pappana]

Seems there is an issue with custom confessions, i tried using it but always got an error message saying the file couldnt be read.

 

Its funny because all i did was remove "-Exampel" from the name and then i deleted everything in between the lines "___" and wrote my own stuff and it still couldnt be read.

 

I did the exact same as i did on thoughts.json wich worked fine then i tested it without touching any of the lines inside by just renaming it "Confessions" and it still spat out an error

 

The lines inside might be corrupted or not written properly with java language.

 

other than that i havent ran into any issues though i havent fully tested it but i do love it so far

Edited April 23, 2022 by pappana
spelling

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, pappana said:

Seems there is an issue with custom confessions, i tried using it but always got an error message saying the file couldnt be read.

The #1 cause is bad formatting.  A single missing or misplaced comma makes the entire file unusable.  You can use jsonlint.com to validate your file.

 

The #2 cause is a bad file name or location (one person had Windows file extensions hidden and ended up naming the file Confessions.json.json), but it sounds like you're okay there.

[pappana]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The #1 cause is bad formatting.  A single missing or misplaced comma makes the entire file unusable.  You can use jsonlint.com to validate your file.

 

The #2 cause is a bad file name or location (one person had Windows file extensions hidden and ended up naming the file Confessions.json.json), but it sounds like you're okay there.

 

it seems deleting my save and starting a new game fixed it(i had to do it anyway so it was no big deal)

[Hex Bolt]

Today's Update

 

Added Spanish translation, courtesy of @agukiin51.

 

No change to content.  This is still 2.0.51.

[Hex Bolt]

On 4/21/2022 at 2:01 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

New Wall-o'-Text™!  All notes come from 2.0.51. 

 

Spoiler

On 4/21/2022 at 2:01 PM, Antiope_Apollonia said:

• You mentioned in passing recently that you feel like there could stand to be more variety of events that can happen in the wilderness, so I've been trying to come up with some ideas to that end:
  • Mistress might say something to the effect of, "When I was a little girl(/boy), I used to love watching the wild horses frolic and play.  Well, there aren't any wild horses around here, but I have the next best thing—you." → Results in the PC being equipped in her Pony Girl outfit for the next couple of hours.  Fun idea, but that might interrupt adventuring.  Not so bad if you're just traveling (and don't mind avoiding all combat), but otherwise would it be fun?  I don't see a good way to detect roads, so this could trigger anywhere in the wilderness.
  • In the wild, in the evening (e.g., maybe 20:00–00:00), Mistress might say something like, "There's a definite chill in the air tonight!  Fortunately, I brought a pleasure slave to keep me warm.  Come here, pet!  Snuggle up with your Mistress!"  This would call SexLab animations tagged "Foreplay" or "Cuddling".  Such animations are underutilised currently, too, so I'm always happy to find excuses to see them.  Hmm, this could fail if the player has no foreplay or cuddling animations enabled (I don't).
• If you're in first person view, kneeling fails to lock your movement.  It also doesn't change the camera height.  It's just an idle animation, so I'll put the blame there for camera height.  I believe that kneeling did lock movement at one time, but I removed that to allow the player to manually fix the angle to face the owner.
• Revisiting a much earlier discussion about having some kind of elopement/marriage integrated into SLTR, I've been messing with using NFF's elopement with Mistress, and I can see a potential benefit that wasn't brought up when this was discussed previously:  Marriage/elopement sets your spouse's disposition to +4, which changes the vanilla dialogues the follower will say to the PC—more affection, less deference, e.g., "Yes, my Thane?" is replaced with, "What is it, sweetie?"  I reckon the vanilla Lover dialogues are a better fit for a well-trained pet than the Ally dialogues.  On that basis, I could see a case to be made for setting Mistress and Lola as being married—through elopement, without any ceremony or other acknowledgement—perhaps as a part of "Tagged", or potentially even throughout the duration of enslavement.  
  • Maybe better would just be to set the relationship rank between Mistress and the player to Lover so you don't get the unimmersive "Has the store made any money?" nonsense?  You could potentially even dynamically change the relationship rank based on submission score, which could be cool.  I don't know if it would break anything to set the rank to -1 to pull Rival dialogues for a current follower, but that might be cool for low scores, too.
    • Just directly modifying relationship ranks wouldn't achieve my original motivation for supporting the idea when it was first brought up, though, which was to make third-party NPCs treat Lola as "taken", but maybe that'd be outweighed by the dialogue benefits of manipulating the disposition system directly.  Functionally, I don't think there's a difference between ranks 1-4.  Likewise, ranks below 0 are effectively the same.  Some mods look at ranks (such as for vendor pricing) but, sadly, the game doesn't do much other than the "you're a friend" or "I hate you" greetings.
• Can "Clean Sweep" re-equip your previously-equipped power when it un-equips the Sweep power at the end?  Done for the next update.  I'm surprised that I didn't think to do this.
• Would it be possible to let us select a playmate through dialogue instead of having to get into the MCM?  I don't think that should be triggered by talking to the potential playmate (it's not Lola's choice), and it would be tricky (maybe not possible) to do it through owner dialog.
• The drums aren't looping during dances.  So if you extend dancing duration in the MCM settings, or if pause during a dance, you'll finish the dance in awkward silence.  That's the game's music file for an NPC bard playing drums.  The script function doesn't have a loop option.
• Gold share is sharing the gold Mistress reimburses Lola during Run, Lola, Run!  Are you sure?  That script block bypasses gold sharing to ensure that the PC receives all the gold.  Possibly the expense money option might interfere, but I think the reimbursement is working.
• "Very well, but this time I'm going to watch someone else do the spanking." → This would be another low-hanging fruit for Playmate role differentiation; likewise for "I'm going to watch someone else fuck you."  → The current dialogue is a little awkward, but if it were written with a specific playmate relationship in mind, it could easily sound a lot more natural.
• Voice file for introducing the nudity rule plays "Once it is dead, the rules go back into effect" twice in a row instead of mentioning the dragons.  The subtitles are correct, so I guess this is a problem with the dialogue patch?  Yes.  It's not duplicated in the topic text.
• Had a situation where Mistress stole my gold, too, when taking her remaining gold back after a purchase.  Haven't been able to replicate it.  The amount taken back is the owner's gold minus your starting gold.  If you sell something during the purchase, that would increase your gold on hand and the owner would take back more.
• Coming back to the earlier discussion of gold sharing and merchants, a further advantage to sharing net transactions—if you could find a way to make it work—would be to avoid getting screwed so much by rounding.  By sharing each sale individually, you're massively impacted by rounding, especially in the early game when you're dealing with a lot of low-value items.  It's not a feature, but I like to think of it as that Mistress is exploiting you in these little ways because she can, just another show of power.
• In dialogue, Mistress says, "each time I spank you, you become a little bit more submissive, and I have you begging me for it.  Delightful!"  But, according to the mod's logic, I don't actually become any more submissive.  What gives?! O_o Maybe begging for spanks should give a small score boost?  Don't focus on score.  The wording refers to Lola's attitude.
  • Also, I think I might've mentioned this before, but the current PC dialogue for "begging" hardly feels worthy of the word.  Yes, room for improvement there.
• If you save before asking Mistress to buy you training, then quit out during the allotted thirty seconds, when you reload, you'll keep the discount.  I'm not sure why that would happen, or that I could prevent it.  The discount should end when the event ends.
• Returning to the earlier discussion of finding places to work in, "Good girl, Lola!"  I reckon "immediate service" for "Run, Lola, Run" would be an ideal opportunity for this.  Noted for a future update.
• When spending Mistress's gold, beast race females offer a choice of dance+sex or just dance.  Why can't we dance for the incompatible gender, too, then?  I've forgotten the specifics, but the idea is sex-for-discount.  And from there, since it seems like the mod can figure out whether the target is a beast race or humanoid, why can't it also determine gender internally without the need to specify through the dialogue with Mistress?  There was an implementation reason.  I've forgotten the details, but I didn't choose the approach lightly.
  • For one, ever since this was implemented, I've felt like it was strange that I didn't have to do anything at all—i.e., most probably, dancing—with the opposite gender.  Plus, if you could model a solution off of this, it would let you simplify the currently unwieldy dialogue when asking Mistress to buy you something.
• When you fail "Run, Lola, Run" for time, but you have the item, why can't you give it to Mistress anyway?  A "lesser failure" condition—versus returning empty-handed—would be nice, but more than that, I worked hard to fetch that thing—so hard, in fact, that it took me more than an hour—so it feels bad for Mistress to ignore it.  She scolds me for returning empty handed, but I didn't!  I'm just late!  Noted for a future update.  At a minimum, the owner should take the item.
• Not sure if there's a solution here—maybe something with hidden quest stages?—but during "Working Slave", Mistress makes prostitution-related comments when Lola is having sex regardless of whether the target is a client or something unrelated.  The idle comment can't tell if your sex partner is a client.  If you'd focus on the work you were assigned, you wouldn't have this problem.  ?

 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Fun idea, but that might interrupt adventuring.  Not so bad if you're just traveling (and don't mind avoiding all combat), but otherwise would it be fun?  I don't see a good way to detect roads, so this could trigger anywhere in the wilderness.

Is there any reason you wouldn't be able to fight in pony gear?  I can't think of ever having tried since it's currently only used in town, but I'd assume you could fight in pony gear, however awkwardly, no?  Even if not, I think, as long as the duration is reasonable, it'd be okay.  It could always be managed from the cooldowns MCM tab, too, so people would have the option to disable it or set it to low frequency.  

  

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Hmm, this could fail if the player has no foreplay or cuddling animations enabled (I don't).

There's at least one in the default SexLab animations.  It's not great, but it's there.  And there are some decent ones in popular animation packs.  I think the one I quite like comes from Leito.  But I reckon you could allow it to call Missionary tagged animations if it fails to find Foreplay animations, yeah?

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Functionally, I don't think there's a difference between ranks 1-4.  Likewise, ranks below 0 are effectively the same.  Some mods look at ranks (such as for vendor pricing) but, sadly, the game doesn't do much other than the "you're a friend" or "I hate you" greetings.

Well, the greetings were exactly my point.  Since SLTR doesn't replace vanilla greetings, you can get some oddly deferential greetings from Mistress since followers are set to rank 3 by default.  Rank 4 greetings are less deferential and more affectionate, which seems a better fit for a well-trained pet.  I'm less sure about lower ranks, but I could see potential for some better immersion there, too.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Done for the next update.  I'm surprised that I didn't think to do this.

Cool.  That's always been a minor irritation.  Not sure if it's possible, but it would be even better if you could re-equip it when you meet your quota rather than when you finish the quest—and re-equip Sweep if needed when Mistress isn't satisfied.  I'm thinking about my ongoing effort to train myself to always kneel when speaking to my betters here; another minor frustration is that, in the current implementation, I can't kneel when telling Mistress I've finished.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I don't think that should be triggered by talking to the potential playmate (it's not Lola's choice), and it would be tricky (maybe not possible) to do it through owner dialog.

Yeah, I'm not sure what would be best here, especially without having clear playmate roles—maybe this would need to wait until you're ready to offer a configuration choice of playmate-as-another-slave or playmate-as-another-mistress.  I just hate being forced into menus during gameplay—having to get into the MCM to use a mod during play is the antithesis of immersion.  So even an imperfect dialogue solution would seem like the lesser of two evils here. 

 

Perhaps the best way to do it would be to have a dialogue with mistress about someone else to play with, and then you go into a sort of "selection mode" where the next eligible NPC you interact with is nominated, and you can return to Mistress to confirm the choice.  This is how Home Sweet Home handles selling slaves in the mines, and it works quite well for selecting NPCs.  

 

Maybe not as ideal as a good dialogue solution would be, and also not mutually-exclusive—you could still do both—but another way to solve the underlying issue would just be to have the MCM save your playmate choice in its configuration.  I'm not sure what technical limitations might get in the way of that since you import your MCM settings before starting the main quest, but other mods seem to be able to do similarly.  SexLab Survival, for instance, says you can save Escorts in your MCM configuration (I haven't tried since it looks like quite a Maledom focused mod).  This doesn't necessarily handle situations where you want to change playmates, or you want your playmate to be some follower who is unlocked during your playthrough, but it would certainly remove the need to get into the MCM for the most common use cases.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's the game's music file for an NPC bard playing drums.  The script function doesn't have a loop option.

Hmm.  Can it be extended or anything then?  The default 45s duration is shorter than the animations for the TDF dances, so it feels a shame not to extend it, but finishing the dance in awkward silence is... awkward!  I don't really know much about the mechanics under the bonnet here, but trying to think about solutions... could you maybe tie a resumption of the music into Mistress's comments, perhaps?

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Are you sure?  That script block bypasses gold sharing to ensure that the PC receives all the gold.  Possibly the expense money option might interfere, but I think the reimbursement is working.

Pretty sure, but I'll try to double check.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Yes.  It's not duplicated in the topic text.

Just saw that there's a new version of the Executeball voice pack in the last few days, so hopefully it'll have that fixed, too.  Updated, but haven't had a chance to do much with it yet.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The amount taken back is the owner's gold minus your starting gold.  If you sell something during the purchase, that would increase your gold on hand and the owner would take back more.

Pretty sure it wasn't anything to do with that.  I ended with literally zero gold, and I'm pretty sure it was after using a trainer, not a merchant.  But as I said, I haven't been able to replicate it so far, so I don't have more to offer other than a BOLO for now.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Don't focus on score.  The wording refers to Lola's attitude.

But the score is meant to be a reflection of Lola's attitude, no?  ?

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I've forgotten the specifics, but the idea is sex-for-discount. 

Right now, if your target is a humanoid of compatible gender, you always dance, then have sex.  If it's a humanoid of incompatible gender, you don't do anything.  If it's a beast race of compatible gender, you have the choice of dance only or dance and then sex.  I've always thought it strange that we don't have to do anything for the incompatible gender—seems like we should have to dance.  Apart from that, the fact that the mod detects the difference between beast race and humanoid females seems to gesture at the possibility of improving the implementation here, but without a better sense of what constraints pushed you to go that direction in the first place, I'm not sure what exactly to suggest.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

Noted for a future update.  At a minimum, the owner should take the item.

From my perspective, the most important thing is for the dialogue to acknowledge the difference between returning empty handed and returning late.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

The idle comment can't tell if your sex partner is a client. 

I'm hardly an expert here, but I think, maybe, it might be possible to create a global variable that gets set to 1 when an NPC agrees to pay to fuck you, and set it to 0 again when they pay you and the quest updates, and then you could use that variable as the condition on the idle comments?  Maybe I'm talking out of my ass here, but it seems like that could work.

 

2 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

If you'd focus on the work you were assigned, you wouldn't have this problem.  ?

And what if Mistress assigns me to make a public display of what a slut I'm willing to be for her?  

Edited April 25, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Hex Bolt]

17 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Rank 4 greetings are less deferential and more affectionate, which seems a better fit for a well-trained pet.

You might be thinking of marriage greetings or something from a mod. but base Skyrim simply checks if relationship is 1 or higher.  There's no separate set of greetings for rank 4.

 

19 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

I can't kneel when telling Mistress I've finished.

You're leaning on your broom from exhaustion.  It's okay.  Mistress likes to see that level of dedication. 

 

25 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

The default 45s duration is shorter than the animations for the TDF dances, so it feels a shame not to extend it

The drum music is from Data\Sound\FX\MUS\Bard\Drum\MUS_BardDrum_02.wav.  One could edit it and double or triple it.  Or I could do it.  Here's a replacer that I've extended to 65 seconds.  It might cause bard drum performances to continue for 30 seconds after the bard finishes -- I didn't test that.

mus_barddrum_02.7z

 

43 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

But the score is meant to be a reflection of Lola's attitude, no?

No.  It's the measure of the owner's evaluation of your progress.  Even if you start with a superb attitude, you start at zero and work your way up.

 

46 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

If it's a beast race of compatible gender, you have the choice of dance only or dance and then sex.  I've always thought it strange that we don't have to do anything for the incompatible gender—seems like we should have to dance.

Ah, I remember now.  I was concerned about the situation of a male player with a male character (very rare, but still) having to do a sexy dance for a male merchant.  Awkward.  If you have Become a Bard from Nexus, you could self-enforce playing a tune (before or after, or you'll fail the time window).

 

54 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

it might be possible to create a global variable that gets set to 1 when an NPC agrees to pay to fuck you, and set it to 0 again when they pay you and the quest updates

That would only work for basic prostitution.

 

56 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

And what if Mistress assigns me to make a public display of what a slut I'm willing to be for her?

Maybe she's had too much wine.  Are you going to point out her mistake?

[OH1972]

11 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

 

There's at least one in the default SexLab animations.  It's not great, but it's there.  And there are some decent ones in popular animation packs.   

 

 

True, but even with those animation packs, it's not a given that the respective animation is being registered / enabled.

[just_Gina]

In my current game, i am playing LOLA more than Skyrim. At level 44, (even with Love Sickness and a strict Master,) and only now on my way to see the Graybeards. My character is at submission level 100. Jordis is the Plaything, and in game we are a matching pair of Nordic slaves. 

-Is it possible to create a setting to determine how often the Owner uses both his slaves for sex at the same time? The NPC setting doesn't affect Plaything.

 

Also, being at level 100 doesn't feel much different than level 50. Some ideas for immersive roleplay.

- "Tell me what I want to hear." becomes a requirement for the player to initiate after a certain level, frequency set in MCM.

- Player-Chores: Player must offer sweeping, dinner, etc... Again, MCM settings. Ditto boot cleaning, it becomes the player's responsibility to remember to offer.

- Kneeling. Must kneel whenever addressing Master for any reason. SD+ uses this dynamic and it is great, because the player is actively included and there is punishment if forgotten.

It is already incorporated in the "tell me what I want to hear" through dialog, and it works well that way.

More rules to follow as the score increases would make slavery much more immersive. Since most would be dialog and wouldn't need to actually be accomplished, unless the Owner accepts, it wouldn't take away from game play.

 

-And just in general, a setting to configure cooldown of the shock events. Like i mentioned above, levels feel much the same, except for the shocking which has become almost constant, even with effects turned off in DD. They have become overwhelming, and unnecessarily frequent for a totally submissive character. 

 

Playing the mod first and the game second has been very enjoyable. Normally i play the game with SLR as a hindrance to get around. This time the focus is on Master's whims, the game quests aren't important and only after-thoughts when convenient, 

 

 

Still the Mod of mods, and best slavery mod period. Thanks for keeping on, keeping on with it as it must have become a labor of love for you to endure all the hard work.

Thanks!!!

  

 

 

 

[Antiope_Apollonia]

5 hours ago, OH1972 said:

 

True, but even with those animation packs, it's not a given that the respective animation is being registered / enabled.

Sure, but you have to make an overt effort to disable the foreplay animations included by default in SexLab.  So that's less onerous than the existing need for spanking animations in SLTR.  I just don't see that as a problem.  People can enable relevant animations to make use of the feature, disable the feature, or accept the feature using less optimal animations.  Seems fine.

[Hex Bolt]

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

Jordis is the Plaything, and in game we are a matching pair of Nordic slaves. 

That's hot.  

 

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

Is it possible to create a setting to determine how often the Owner uses both his slaves for sex at the same time? The NPC setting doesn't affect Plaything.

A new setting for playmate 3-way makes sense.  (I think it's best that the NPC 3-way setting stay as it is, since the owner might greatly enjoy sex with his matching pair of Nordic slaves but not be very interested in bringing in someone else.  Or vice versa.)  This should probably apply both when you offer sex and when the owner demands it.  This will overlap with "Owner prefers playmate", so the mod would have to check one, then the other.

 

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

Also, being at level 100 doesn't feel much different than level 50.

Yes, that can improve.  The emphasis so far has been on adding general content that can be enjoyed fairly early, and also be accessible to players who aren't trying to maximize score.  It has a good amount of content now, so the time is right to look at things for post-50 and even higher thresholds.

 

Another idea that I've been considering is that punishments might become more severe at higher score levels.  While I wouldn't want to completely go against the goal of letting the player play Skyrim, at higher levels you've embraced the role of slave.  (As I've said in the past, achieving a high score is not necessarily "winning", and if a player wants to maintain a level of autonomy it's best to intentionally keep the score to a moderate level.) 

 

Advanced punishment might be time in a straitjacket or yoke.  Lola can still travel and do things in town, but adventuring would be out, and she'd have to endure NPC comments like "Someone's been a bad girl!".  Heavy bondage does block dancing and some other events, so there are tradeoffs, but it would inconvenience the player while still leaving the PC mobile.  It might also apply to negative score territory and make that feel different, too.  Thoughts on this?

 

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

More rules to follow as the score increases would make slavery much more immersive.

This is a good idea.  As score increases, so do the owner's demands.

 

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

"Tell me what I want to hear." becomes a requirement for the player to initiate after a certain level, frequency set in MCM.

That's doable.

 

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

Player-Chores: Player must offer sweeping, dinner, etc... Again, MCM settings. Ditto boot cleaning, it becomes the player's responsibility to remember to offer.

The location-specific chores might be a little more tricky to enforce, but this has potential.  Lola might also be expected to tend to the owner's gear when in town or at home (tempering a utility knife or mending spare shoes).

 

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

Kneeling. Must kneel whenever addressing Master for any reason. SD+ uses this dynamic and it is great, because the player is actively included and there is punishment if forgotten.

That's easier in concept than in practice.  Every quest completion topic would have to check for kneeling, and it would have to be included in all future event topics.  I could certainly add this just for "Master/Mistress?", though to be meaningful players would have to turn off the auto-kneel option.

 

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

And just in general, a setting to configure cooldown of the shock events.

Yes, this one seems best for lower levels, to remind Lola of her place, though it should never completely go away.  It could scale inversely with score.  However, there are only a few events like this that can be done anywhere, so unless I can add more you'll be doing more dancing and seeing more collar checks (when the mod moves to DD 5, at least those will really check that the collar is locked).

 

6 hours ago, just_Gina said:

Playing the mod first and the game second has been very enjoyable. Normally i play the game with SLR as a hindrance to get around. This time the focus is on Master's whims, the game quests aren't important and only after-thoughts when convenient

Great to hear!

Edited April 25, 2022 by HexBolt8

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Advanced punishment might be time in a straitjacket or yoke.

I'm in favour of finding a use for straitjackets.  Sexy!  The red leather one in particular.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

Heavy bondage does block dancing and some other events, so there are tradeoffs, but it would inconvenience the player while still leaving the PC mobile. 

In general, straitjackets interfere less than cuffs, yokes, and armbinders, just by virtue of how they work in DD.  Dancing, for instance, generally works more or less fine in straitjackets, although some individual dances look pretty awkward, but it's a whole lot better than how it works with other devices, which is basically not at all.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

This is a good idea.  As score increases, so do the owner's demands.

As long as the quotas can be set to zero in the MCM, I'm all for giving people more options.  But.  I'm guessing my experience is a fairly common one in that I tend to play whenever I have a little time, which isn't all the time.  Which sometimes means short play sessions, and which sometimes means long gaps between play sessions.  So mechanics that rely on keeping track of what you have/haven't done in game time tends to just cause tedium if not outright aggravation.  I have no idea how many times I've offered sex today given that "today" has been divided into four separate sessions over the course of the past week!

 

Thus I'm rather unenthusiastic about the prospect of more "Do X thing Y times per day" style mechanics.  This could be made more palatable, however, if it were possible for SLTR's quest to track that stuff for you.  I can imagine that this would be possible—but perhaps really annoying—to implement.  Basically, the SLTR quest would update daily with your checklist for the day, and as you make progress toward meeting your daily quotas, the quest would update to reflect that.  That'd be a nice quality of life change even for the current offer service/sex mechanics, but if you're going to add more content of a similar sort, I think it might become essential.  

 

That being said...

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's doable.

I've suggested this same thing in the past, and I'd still love to see it.  Not so much because I want more daily checklists, though, but simply because it has always bugged the crap out of me that Mistress keeps telling me I don't say it to her enough, but I don't actually have the option to tell her unless she prompts me to.  Lola just wants to be a good pet!  Let her please her Mistress! 

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

That's easier in concept than in practice.  Every quest completion topic would have to check for kneeling, and it would have to be included in all future event topics.  I could certainly add this just for "Master/Mistress?", though to be meaningful players would have to turn off the auto-kneel option.

I think the best time to check would be right when you initiate dialogue, i.e. on greeting.  I also like the idea of Mistress standing there waiting to forcegreet you until you kneel after she beckons.  I still dream about such a rule applying to all of Lola's "betters", but Mistress would be a good start.

 

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

(when the mod moves to DD 5, at least those will really check that the collar is locked).

Ooh!