Submissive Lola: The Resubmission LE/SE

[Kanutten]

I think the footlicking event at Jarl's fits even better for player and pc without foot fetish as it underscores the fact that you are now a slave and your likes and dislikes doesn't matter anymore. It is gross, humiliating and  degrading. And it probably comes from Veronica D/S where Alex? picked up inspiration.

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, blahity said:

If Submissive Lola could detect when you are currently the Public Whore and use the prostitution thoughts from the Thoughts.json instead of the usual thoughts.

I'll check with PW's author to see if there's an easy way to detect active prostitution.  This would probably be limited to having the "can't leave city" option enabled, to ensure that the PC is really on the job.

[Talesien]

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

So I've been trying to figure out ways to make slavery more immersive in my Skyrim.  I'd like to find something that modifies generic PC–NPC interactions to better fit.  There are a bunch of mods that do things in this space, but most of them are very maledom focused and don't fit very well for lesbian players.  And many of them just seem to be sloppily written; lots of typos, careless punctuation and capitalisation, etc.—nothing like the polish of SLTR.  A lot of it also seems too invasive; I'm not sure if vanilla behaviour of never acknowledging my being a slave is any less immersive than never talking about anything else. 

 

Since these mods are necessarily time-consuming to test by their very scope, I'm curious to hear other peoples' experiences using such mods, which ones you like in conjunction with SLTR, etc.

 

• Sexist/Derogatory Guards, NPCs and Player Comments 2.91
  • Quite maledom/misogynistic tone.
• BaboDialogue 4.31
  • Haven't tried it and the mod description isn't particularly helpful, but looks like another maledom/misogynistic one.
  • Looks like it might have some unnecessary feature bloat, too.
• SLSF Fame Comments SE 3.31
  • This one seems more gender egalitarian, and it looks like it should even have some explicit support for lesbian play with the "likes women" stat.
  • The mechanics around getting in legal trouble for public nudity and public sex seem like they'd cause a lot of problems with SLTR.
• Slaverun Device Comments - Standalone 1.0.1
  • Very maledom/misogynistic tone.
  • Very unpolished writing.
• Sexlab Survival SE 0.662 Beta
  • Very maledom/misogynistic tone.
  • Seems more geared toward a woman trying to remain free rather than a woman who has accepted a collar.  Where would Mistress fit in?
• Relationship Dialogue System (03/10/2021) 2.6
  • Not really acknowledging slavery; this one has different aims.
  • Being able to raise NPCs' disposition would be nice in conjunction with SLTR's "Confessions" event, especially if that mechanic is extended to "I Am Famous" in the future (fingers crossed).
  • Seems like having lovers all over Skyrim doesn't really fit with belonging to Mistress.

Any others out there that I've missed?  I'd really love to have something that is explicitly class-based and that acknowledges slavery directly, but in a way that doesn't make any assumptions about gender roles.  It doesn't seem to exist, though, unless I've missed something.

 

I'm currently co-developing a mod that will add a bunch of slavery quests with a lot of worldbuilding, but it's aimed more at the other side of the equation—i.e., player-as-slaver, built on PAHE.  Still, once the core functionality is done, and as I get less inept at modding, maybe I'll consider building in some conditional dialogues that check for an equipped collar.   Even if the desire to do the NPC-enslavement quests wouldn't be there for most SLTR users, the world building should be a good match, and there's plenty of homage to SLTR in the writing.

I doubt there is any mod that covers all your criteria. Best option is probably to take one that comes close and modify it to your liking. Translation tools like: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/921  come handy in that regard. I've done something like that with some of the dialogues from Devious Followers. Though that was a much smaller change than what you likely need to do. OTOH there may be others interested in your results.

[Seeker999]

8 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

How much control over this does the player retain?  I'm okay with sex, but I need SLTR-style control over who it's with.

SLSF Fame Comments has 14 categories of fame you can track or not for comments/events, including 'likes men' and 'likes women'. 15 if you want to count Jarl warning/bounty events. I put the MCM settings behind the spoiler, if you're interested.  SoS is not a requirement. Most of the events are comments, but I think if you disable 'Likes Men' and 'Jarl warning/bounty', then it will probably meet your criteria. You might want to ask the mod author, who seems pretty responsive in the support forum, what the best configuration is. I can't say for sure because with my current selection of mods I'm not always 100% sure which mod is triggering an event and I don't know how much your Sexlab and Sexlab aroused preferences influence who performs (if that's the right word) the physical events. 

 

Hope this info helps.

Spoiler

 

[blahity]

11 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Neither of these satisfy criterion numero uno: only female sexual partners.

Public Whore let's you choose what genders you prefer, male/female/both.

[lacie_]

Just wondering, are the slave piercing (shocking) items used by SLtR? I noticed in my game console their id code associates them with this mod, but I'm pretty sure the item is originally from DCL right?

 

edit: nvm pretty sure the ones I was looking at aren't from SLtR

Edited May 9, 2022 by asdj1239

[Aldid]

23 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

So I've been trying to figure out ways to make slavery more immersive in my Skyrim.  I'd like to find something that modifies generic PC–NPC interactions to better fit.  There are a bunch of mods that do things in this space, but most of them are very maledom focused and don't fit very well for lesbian players.  And many of them just seem to be sloppily written; lots of typos, careless punctuation and capitalisation, etc.—nothing like the polish of SLTR.  A lot of it also seems too invasive; I'm not sure if vanilla behaviour of never acknowledging my being a slave is any less immersive than never talking about anything else. 

 

Since these mods are necessarily time-consuming to test by their very scope, I'm curious to hear other peoples' experiences using such mods, which ones you like in conjunction with SLTR, etc.

 

• Sexist/Derogatory Guards, NPCs and Player Comments 2.91
  • Quite maledom/misogynistic tone.
• BaboDialogue 4.31
  • Haven't tried it and the mod description isn't particularly helpful, but looks like another maledom/misogynistic one.
  • Looks like it might have some unnecessary feature bloat, too.
• SLSF Fame Comments SE 3.31
  • This one seems more gender egalitarian, and it looks like it should even have some explicit support for lesbian play with the "likes women" stat.
  • The mechanics around getting in legal trouble for public nudity and public sex seem like they'd cause a lot of problems with SLTR.
• Slaverun Device Comments - Standalone 1.0.1
  • Very maledom/misogynistic tone.
  • Very unpolished writing.
• Sexlab Survival SE 0.662 Beta
  • Very maledom/misogynistic tone.
  • Seems more geared toward a woman trying to remain free rather than a woman who has accepted a collar.  Where would Mistress fit in?
• Relationship Dialogue System (03/10/2021) 2.6
  • Not really acknowledging slavery; this one has different aims.
  • Being able to raise NPCs' disposition would be nice in conjunction with SLTR's "Confessions" event, especially if that mechanic is extended to "I Am Famous" in the future (fingers crossed).
  • Seems like having lovers all over Skyrim doesn't really fit with belonging to Mistress.

Any others out there that I've missed?  I'd really love to have something that is explicitly class-based and that acknowledges slavery directly, but in a way that doesn't make any assumptions about gender roles.  It doesn't seem to exist, though, unless I've missed something.

 

I'm currently co-developing a mod that will add a bunch of slavery quests with a lot of worldbuilding, but it's aimed more at the other side of the equation—i.e., player-as-slaver, built on PAHE.  Still, once the core functionality is done, and as I get less inept at modding, maybe I'll consider building in some conditional dialogues that check for an equipped collar.   Even if the desire to do the NPC-enslavement quests wouldn't be there for most SLTR users, the world building should be a good match, and there's plenty of homage to SLTR in the writing.

I have this issue a lot. Far too many mods which acknowledge the state of the female PC tend to go for a far too misogynistic tone for my taste. Honestly, so far it feels like SLTR is the only mod that really succeeds in this respect, even DF (which is usually quite good with this) has a few lines that go too far for me.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Aldid

[Aldid]

4 minutes ago, asdj1239 said:

Just wondering, are the slave piercing (shocking) items used by SLtR? I noticed in my game console their id code associates them with this mod, but I'm pretty sure the item is originally from DCL right?

They are used, it's an event that can happen after about 50 submission

[Antiope_Apollonia]

3 hours ago, Aldid said:

I have this issue a lot. Far too many mods which acknowledge the state of the female PC tend to go for a far too misogynistic tone for my taste.

Mostly I just get the feel that many mods are written by and for men with fantasies around being dominant—often "dominant" in a toxic, abusive way—rather than women or just people with a healthier conception of dominance and submission.  Which is fine—different strokes for different folks and all—for that crowd to have an outlet for their fantasies, but I wish there were some more variety in that space.  It's all a bit... phallocentric.

  

3 hours ago, Aldid said:

Honestly, so far it feels like SLTR is the only mod that really succeeds in this respect,

I'm very grateful that SLTR exists! ? 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Hex Bolt]

14 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Mostly I just get the feel that many mods are written by and for men who want to be dominant—and "dominant" in a toxic, abusive way—rather than women or just people with a healthier conception of dominance and submission.

I'll offer a different take on this.  Mods are generally written by those who want to play them.  While the above might well be true for some mod authors, others might simply like playing an underdog character where every day is an uphill struggle.

 

When Skyrim first came out, I played the game as a hero, the chosen one.  That was fun for a while, but I found that playing a "nobody" adventurer is far more interesting, especially with some rules to make gameplay much more challenging.  Then I discovered mods like Sexist Guards, which added a new dimension of challenge.  It was easy enough at first to ignore a few rude remarks.  But they never stop.  It becomes oppressive.  A person need not be locked into restraints to feel weighed down.

 

I'd be thinking, hey it's really hard out there!  My female character does less damage than a man (Disparity), has trouble buying & selling weapons and gets short-changed even by Adrianne (personal rules), who's at least better than the others, so how dare you say those things!  I'd challenge you to a brawl, but I know I'd lose (Disparity again), and get violated afterwards (one of the sex mods) with wear & tear aftereffects (Apropos 2).  With Horrible Harassment (set for male attackers only), I have to stand aside when a man passes in a narrow place, because even a creep like Nazeem outranks my character.  I find myself thinking, "That's a man.  I'd better be careful." 

 

It's hard, mentally hard, in that kind of atmosphere.  I like it, because it goes beyond just making the game mechanics more difficult.  Just getting by is a challenge.  It's a good backdrop for playing a weak, underdog character.  As a side effect, it can provide some insight into the lives of people who live in an oppressive environment, and how that might shape a person's thoughts and attitude.

 

We can't know what's in a mod creator's mind (unless the author states the motivation), but I'd guess that some of them just want this sort of challenge.

[Ragatokk]

 

Is there a AE version for this?

[Hex Bolt]

22 minutes ago, Ragatokk said:

Is there a AE version for this?

That's someone else's mod.  It says "Special Edition Compatible: No", so it would also be incompatible with AE.  The only relationship that I can see to this mod is that the collar model could be used for this mod's custom collar.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

23 hours ago, Talesien said:

I doubt there is any mod that covers all your criteria.

My criteria are basically just, "fits well narratively with SLTR" and "compatible with playing as a lesbian."  I don't think that's really asking for the moon.  That latter means, at minimum, not forcing penises on me, but both criteria also interact with each other since the latter means that my SLTR owner is Mistress, not Master, and that causes continuity problems with a lot of them.  

 

19 hours ago, Seeker999 said:

Hope this info helps.

That is quite useful to see.  I don't understand why more mod authors don't show all the MCM settings on the mod page—it's such important information in deciding what mods to use.  Looks like the configurability is pretty good, then, and it might be able to be made to fit okay.  Maybe this one will be the next thing I experiment with.  

 

17 hours ago, blahity said:

Public Whore let's you choose what genders you prefer, male/female/both.

Why don't they advertise that? ? That's one where photos of the MCM actually are shown, but not all of the tabs, so I guess that's in the "content preferences" tab that isn't shown.  That said, I'm not sure PW really fits the sort of "background worldbuilding" role of the mods I listed.  Am I correct in understanding it basically revolves around one big event, and outside that event, it doesn't really do much, no?  I'm very satisfied with SLTR as being the centrepiece of my PC experience, and it gives me all the sexual content I really need, so the big PW event doesn't really appeal that much.  

 

5 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

It's hard, mentally hard, in that kind of atmosphere.  I like it, because it goes beyond just making the game mechanics more difficult.  Just getting by is a challenge.  It's a good backdrop for playing a weak, underdog character.

I like that, too.  I just think there are better frames for it than misogyny.  I'd rather be an underdog because I'm a slave—the lowest rung of a highly stratified class society—than because I'm a girl.  For one thing, if it's a Handmaid's Tale in Skyrim, then why is Mistress even allowed to own slaves?  Making it about gender creates continuity issues with SLTR if your owner is Mistress, as well as with all the strong female characters from Vanilla whom I like to look up to.  And I just find it to be a less interesting narrative.

 

I think I might endeavour to build something into Institutional Slavery once the core functionality is done, but that's going to be a while.  

[Talesien]

12 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

On 5/9/2022 at 12:24 AM, Talesien said:

I doubt there is any mod that covers all your criteria.

My criteria are basically just, "fits well narratively with SLTR" and "compatible with playing as a lesbian."  I don't think that's really asking for the moon.  That latter means, at minimum, not forcing penises on me, but both criteria also interact with each other since the latter means that my SLTR owner is Mistress, not Master, and that causes continuity problems with a lot of them.  

No it's not, still I doubt you will find that match, hence my suggestion to make it yourself (or more precise modify something to your liking). You know the old adage: If you want something done ... do it yourself.  It's not that hard, just a good bit of sometimes tedious work. Gives one new appreciation for how much work creating (or even just translating) these mods are.

[ScroodPooch]

6 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

I'll offer a different take on this.  Mods are generally written by those who want to play them.  While the above might well be true for some mod authors, others might simply like playing an underdog character where every day is an uphill struggle.

 

When Skyrim first came out, I played the game as a hero, the chosen one.  That was fun for a while, but I found that playing a "nobody" adventurer is far more interesting, especially with some rules to make gameplay much more challenging.  Then I discovered mods like Sexist Guards, which added a new dimension of challenge.  It was easy enough at first to ignore a few rude remarks.  But they never stop.  It becomes oppressive.  A person need not be locked into restraints to feel weighed down.

 

I'd be thinking, hey it's really hard out there!  My female character does less damage than a man (Disparity), has trouble buying & selling weapons and gets short-changed even by Adrianne (personal rules), who's at least better than the others, so how dare you say those things!  I'd challenge you to a brawl, but I know I'd lose (Disparity again), and get violated afterwards (one of the sex mods) with wear & tear aftereffects (Apropos 2).  With Horrible Harassment (set for male attackers only), I have to stand aside when a man passes in a narrow place, because even a creep like Nazeem outranks my character.  I find myself thinking, "That's a man.  I'd better be careful." 

 

It's hard, mentally hard, in that kind of atmosphere.  I like it, because it goes beyond just making the game mechanics more difficult.  Just getting by is a challenge.  It's a good backdrop for playing a weak, underdog character.  As a side effect, it can provide some insight into the lives of people who live in an oppressive environment, and how that might shape a person's thoughts and attitude.

 

We can't know what's in a mod creator's mind (unless the author states the motivation), but I'd guess that some of them just want this sort of challenge.

I only play as a male PC. I cannot play mods that have a male character as the dominant character over a female. It's just a personal thing. I just feel weird about playing against a female NPC where I am establishing consent for her. I can't get past it being rape play. Which I don't do. Unless it's a dominant female on a male because then I'm not consenting for someone else. But this becomes difficult as well. Skyrim's alpha male being a sub? This is where (IMO) "I need a strong hand" just isn't believable. So, I've come up with a few lore friendly scenarios where the Dragonborn kinda has to submit to a Domme. Or that the PC is a slave before being recognized as "The chosen one" The dynamic changes. But the only way I can play is as a Male PC with a dominant female follower. Which, given the state of Skyrim modding runs kinda thin.

Edited May 10, 2022 by ScroodPooch

[Antiope_Apollonia]

1 hour ago, Talesien said:

No it's not, still I doubt you will find that match, hence my suggestion to make it yourself (or more precise modify something to your liking).

Well, as I've mentioned previously in this discussion, I may do it myself, but if I do, it'll be from the ground up rather than modifying the existing mods.  I'm a very inexperienced modder still learning the CK—I have a pretty robust knowledge of SSEEdit and patch all kinds of things to all kinds of ends, but creating new stuff in the CK is a whole other beast—so it won't happen soon, but I've been keeping notes about ideas as they come up, and once the core quest content of Institutional Slavery is finished, I may try to make it happen.  By then, hopefully, I'll also have a better grasp of the tools and mechanics in play to where the technical challenge won't be as great. 

 

(I've always felt like I had a pretty good feel for software in general, and maybe it's just my own inexperience with this kind of tool, but the CK just feels like it has the most user-hostile interface I've ever seen.  Every time I'm trying to figure out how to do something new, it seems like the CK takes another chunk out of my self assurance.  Absolutely nothing feels intuitive in this tool!)

  

1 hour ago, ScroodPooch said:

Or that the PC is a slave before being recognized as "The chosen one"

Maybe you should consider one of the various mods out there that makes the PC not the Dragonborn?  This one comes to mind, but I know it's not the only one, so you should probably do a bit of research of your own here.

[agukiin51]

I like to play with a female pc simply because I like it more aspectually, it is true that most mods are oriented towards male domination, but in reality this is about fetishes and creators, I would love to know how to create mods and make one better than this, I'm not saying that this is bad, in fact it's incredible, but the challenge of overcoming it would motivate my effort. It is what they have said above, each creator makes the mod that he would like to play, if I did it, very possibly there would be different things since not all of us have the same tastes.

[agukiin51]

10 minutes ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Well, as I've mentioned previously in this discussion, I may do it myself, but if I do, it'll be from the ground up rather than modifying the existing mods.  I'm a very inexperienced modder still learning the CK—I have a pretty robust knowledge of SSEEdit and patch all kinds of things to all kinds of ends, but creating new stuff in the CK is a whole other beast—so it won't happen soon, but I've been keeping notes about ideas as they come up, and once the core quest content of Institutional Slavery is finished, I may try to make it happen.  By then, hopefully, I'll also have a better grasp of the tools and mechanics in play to where the technical challenge won't be as great. 

 

(I've always felt like I had a pretty good feel for software in general, and maybe it's just my own inexperience with this kind of tool, but the CK just feels like it has the most user-hostile interface I've ever seen.  Every time I'm trying to figure out how to do something new, it seems like the CK takes another chunk out of my self assurance.  Absolutely nothing feels intuitive in this tool!)

  

Maybe you should consider one of the various mods out there that makes the PC not the Dragonborn?  This one comes to mind, but I know it's not the only one, so you should probably do a bit of research of your own here.

I understand you perfectly, I've been doing things in CK for a while since I wanted to create a Mistress for Lola to my liking, since the other mods in which you add npc are usually very tricky or have bugs, and although it seems like a simple thing, each step that I give ends in an error or the app crashes, it is really hard to work in CK, much encouragement!!! CAN!!!.

[Hex Bolt]

1 hour ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

Maybe you should consider one of the various mods out there that makes the PC not the Dragonborn?  This one comes to mind, but I know it's not the only one, so you should probably do a bit of research of your own here.

For your next playthrough, I suggest the newer Skyrim Unbound Reborn (LE or SE).  It's nicely polished, with a decently lit and roomy starting cell.

[Hex Bolt]

3 hours ago, Antiope_Apollonia said:

if it's a Handmaid's Tale in Skyrim, then why is Mistress even allowed to own slaves?

There's lots of room for different imagined societies.  In your game world, this might not make sense.  In mine, wealth (even the perception of wealth) equals power, and power opens doors.  If a woman dresses well and seems to have money, she's treated well, and a slave is just another indication of her status.  There are female jarls, and female slaveowners.  They might be the exceptions, but they're not uncommon.  Just another way to look at it.

[Antiope_Apollonia]

51 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

For your next playthrough, I suggest the newer Skyrim Unbound Reborn (LE or SE).  It's nicely polished, with a decently lit and roomy starting cell.

I still use Live Another Life at this point.  I'm always pretty conservative about making changes to established staples, especially when I'm not sure if any other alternate start would have as seamless of compatibility as LAL.  I've always just sort of retconned the whole Dragonborn thing in my headcanon.  I don't usually mess with the main quest anyway, but when I do, I just sort of imagine they're talking to Mistress.  I might should try that one, though.  I remember looking at it a while ago, and it has some nice features.  Does it have the same range of starting options as LAL?  The guild member starts, Dawnguard start, and property owner starts are all really useful in LAL to jumpstart your playthrough and let you get right to the fun stuff.

  

40 minutes ago, HexBolt8 said:

There's lots of room for different imagined societies.  In your game world, this might not make sense.  In mine, wealth (even the perception of wealth) equals power, and power opens doors.  If a woman dresses well and seems to have money, she's treated well, and a slave is just another indication of her status.  There are female jarls, and female slaveowners.  They might be the exceptions, but they're not uncommon.  Just another way to look at it.

My frame is very similar to yours—not quite as socially mobile, it sounds like, but very similar.  That's basically exactly my point.  That's why I want something that's based on class rather than gender.  When mods portray my femaleness as being the reason I'm being oppressed, it just doesn't work for me, narratively.  

Edited May 10, 2022 by Antiope_Apollonia

[Black714]

8 hours ago, Ragatokk said:

 

Is there a AE version for this?

I think it should work with "SSE NIF Optimizer". it's a simple mesh converter.

[BigOnes69]

4 hours ago, HexBolt8 said:

For your next playthrough, I suggest the newer Skyrim Unbound Reborn (LE or SE).  It's nicely polished, with a decently lit and roomy starting cell.

I second this combined with Timing is Everything and The Choice is Yours make it so you do not have to play a Dragonborn character. I take it a step further and use programs such as Static Skill Leveling and other mods that drain skills and points to make it hard to level up. Combined with Lola it makes a new aspect and challenge to the game that was not there before. It also allows to block all the game quests then download and play long play mods created by modders without interference. I am waiting for the newer mod formerly named Project Proteus now named Proteus to become a little more stable. Maybe it is now havent tested recently. I am hoping that they eventually make it mod select able for different mods on different characters for each of your characters. That way you could go back and forth from playing slaver master and any of the slaves. I will ask on Nexus if they plan on this feature.

Edited May 10, 2022 by BigOnes69

[Xiaron]

So, I'm having an odd problem. Got the Rustic Meal quest but got delayed and couldn't finish it. The message to return to my owner came up, that was done and PC was punished. However the message to return to my owner is still in the Misc section of my quest journal. Any idea what's causing this and how to fix it?

[qalavix]

To suggest some alternate alternate starts, I've been using Alternate Perspective because the starting cell is much nicer than ASLAL's.  It also stops the main (Dragonborn) quest until you explicitly trigger it, and redoes Helgen as a working village/border post with people - at least until you go to Helgen and explicitly trigger the main quest, which (spoiler) means the town is then destroyed by Alduin.  It has a fair number of alt-start scenarios and more can be added.

 

I also used Realm Of Lorkhan for a while; its starting cell is comparatively HUGE and allows you to do a lot of testing (movement, animations, stuff like clothing or weapons, sex, even combat if you spawn something or attack the NPCs) without having to deal with the entire world of Skyrim.  You may or may not like the portals/big glowy gems in various places that lead back to the Realm, but there's a mod-to-the-mod that removes them (or it's another mod entirely - I don't remember).  I think it doesn't offer 'alt starts' per se, but you can go into the realm in one of maybe two dozen places, and there's a way to give yourself vampirism before you go, if that's your thing.