Devious Devices LE 5.2

[DonQuiWho]

On 12/21/2020 at 12:29 PM, t.ara said:

Hi @t.ara

 

On 12/21/2020 at 12:29 PM, t.ara said:

It is very important to get more basic-knowledge about SKYRIM and it ´s mod-possibilities as well, so to talk about different mechanics, concerning this game.

While ZAP is using straight out of the mod the skyrim-compatible architecture with a suiting mechanic, which is linking animations and assets and animated-objects all together, which also adds an expression and mouth mechanic, which adds assets for different races of skyrim, which adds sound to suiting assets, which adds thousands of new furnitures, completely compatible to skyrim and which offers in between two sorts locking mechanics, which changes the walking speed and many more features which are mostly runing in the background ...- and then to tell that ZAP is non-functional is absolutely the biggest nonsence which can be spread over here.

 

I think something maybe got 'Lost in Translation'.  Or maybe just in how I worded my comment,  I certainly wasn't saying that ZAP doesn't work at all  ? 

 

On 12/21/2020 at 12:29 PM, t.ara said:

 

I doubt that ever in future will be coming a different mechanic - there s no need to do so. 

 

Does that mean Musje's ZAP key development won't progress any further?  I thought that it worked quite well and showed promise for use with her mods

 

On 12/21/2020 at 12:29 PM, t.ara said:

 

Progressing DD family all together has been a most ideal idea and it is perfect to keep everything together in whole.

I will support KIMY in future with DD and create my new assets into DD,  because !! DD is to me interesting, specially for NPC´s:  animations/poses are working bravely 100% issure-free inside of "furnitures". The creation is very easy to do, because there are NO problems with scaling, resizing or any sort of alignment issures or cam problems as well. To say it one more else: The arefacts, which ZAP are showing are all based on the limitations of FNIS and are not appearing, because we made mistakes under ZAP. Only for clarification!

Nevertheless would I be happy to see also KIMY putting her hands onto ZAP´s mechanic to look for some solutions for the furniture-functionallity inside of ZAP before a release.

 

HOWDY !

 

Good!  Seeing your furnitures etc working in DD5 has been one of its highlights and shows what a great job both you and @Kimy are doing

 

Best Wishes for 2021

 

 

[Ankahet]

On 12/26/2020 at 5:03 PM, chaimhewast said:

Delete the old versions of Assets/Integration/Expansion/Contraptions before you install this.

Ahhh allright, so, dont need em, get rid of em, got it.

[Ankahet]

On 12/26/2020 at 5:03 PM, chaimhewast said:

Delete the old versions of Assets/Integration/Expansion/Contraptions before you install this.

Another issue has arisen. I have removed the old core DD mods. Assets, Integration and Expansion, and now only have the new one. However, it seems that just about everything made involving those is now broken. Deviously cursed Loot, DD Helpers, all of it. They were relying on the master files that are no longer there. =/ Some of them even updated to their latest versions. (The ones whom had updates available) I start the game, loading screen pops up, then shortly after a windows message box saying that those mods are missing master files and as soon as I click "Ok" the game closes.

[CaptainJ03]

7 hours ago, Ankahet said:

Another issue has arisen. I have removed the old core DD mods. Assets, Integration and Expansion, and now only have the new one.

Yes. If you (or your Mod Manager) has installed the new mod correctly, you still have the ESP for DDa, DDi and DDe. There are a plethorea of mods still relying on them. The new DCL 9.0 beta needs also DDc

 

7 hours ago, Ankahet said:

Deviously cursed Loot, DD Helpers, all of it. They were relying on the master files that are no longer there.

They should be there. BUT: up to the day that I tried to install DD5 I used the old TES Mod Manager that I've used since the olden days of Oblivion. Latest version of that, together with Windows10, managed to kill my installation and I had to switch to another mod manager. (using Vortex now. Not happy with it, but at least it works)

[Zaflis]

9 hours ago, Ankahet said:

Another issue has arisen. I have removed the old core DD mods. Assets, Integration and Expansion, and now only have the new one. However, it seems that just about everything made involving those is now broken.

The new core mods are still Assets, Integration and Expansion (and Contraptions is semi-core mod now too). Reinstall DD5 if you don't have those ESM/ESP's.

[Ankahet]

10 hours ago, CaptainJ03 said:

Yes. If you (or your Mod Manager) has installed the new mod correctly, you still have the ESP for DDa, DDi and DDe. There are a plethorea of mods still relying on them. The new DCL 9.0 beta needs also DDc

 

They should be there. BUT: up to the day that I tried to install DD5 I used the old TES Mod Manager that I've used since the olden days of Oblivion. Latest version of that, together with Windows10, managed to kill my installation and I had to switch to another mod manager. (using Vortex now. Not happy with it, but at least it works)

I dont like Vortex either but MO2 is a pain... Cursed Loot is working now, but the others seem to still not be recognizing. May try reinstalling DD5 after work see how it goes.

[Guest]

How do I free my followers from contraptions?

[Ursur1major]

I am experiencing an issue with the Chastity belt turning invisible if worn in conjunction with a corset.

Chastity belt works fine when corset is not being worn.

[Gameplayer]

3 hours ago, Ursur1major said:

I am experiencing an issue with the Chastity belt turning invisible if worn in conjunction with a corset.

Chastity belt works fine when corset is not being worn.

Also noticed this issue, a search through this thread revealed others had this issue and there are currently no solutions to be found in a search.

So I am assuming that something has changed or it just is on the to be fixed list.

[Skullered]

4 hours ago, Ursur1major said:

I am experiencing an issue with the Chastity belt turning invisible if worn in conjunction with a corset.

Chastity belt works fine when corset is not being worn.

 

1 hour ago, Gameplayer said:

Also noticed this issue, a search through this thread revealed others had this issue and there are currently no solutions to be found in a search.

So I am assuming that something has changed or it just is on the to be fixed list.

Issue with Devious Devices For Him, that's whats breaking Chastity Belts, I've already addressed it and are waiting for it to be implemented.

[Fakein]

Hello!
Tell me please. I decided to play with mods for the first time and don't know anything.
How to use furniture from "ZaZ_Animation_Pack + _8.0 +" mod in Devious Devices - Contraptions?

[Taki17]

5 minutes ago, Fakein said:

How to use furniture from "ZaZ_Animation_Pack + _8.0 +" mod in Devious Devices - Contraptions?

Both are frameworks that have different approaches to bondage furniture, they don't do nothing other than provide functionality, you need to find mods that utilize them, or make said mods yourself.

[Fakein]

10 minutes ago, Taki17 said:

Both are frameworks that have different approaches to bondage furniture, they don't do nothing other than provide functionality, you need to find mods that utilize them, or make said mods yourself.

I went around the entire Internet and so far I can not find anything.
Can you tell me some kind of mod?

[Maddac]

I have found a write up by the author of Shout Like a Virgin as to issues with DD5 polling sexlab before start of a scene. I have attached it below but the long and short of it is that in playing with DD5 I have experienced a number of issues, even with DCL9.0 beta with actors t-posing, scenes restarting, etc.

all of this relates to filter that cannot be turned off, which was available in DD4.3 and the fact that DD5 polls sexlab after scene has started. my game is heavily modified with multiple sexlab and DD mods installed but i have never had the problems with DD4.3 installed that I am having with DD5 installed. I for one would like an MCM button in DD5 for MODE4 below. it doesnt matter if my player has DD5 devices or not, i am still getting issues with sexlab scenes restarting, characters standing on top of other characters etc.

 

How does the Filter work?

• If DD is installed, the DD Filter is always active, intercepting any start of a Sexlab scene, from any mod, including mods that do not use/require DD, potentially changing the behavior of any Sexlab scene
• When a Sexlab scene starts, DD is always executing scripts checking for blocking devices. More work occurs if any actors are wearing DD devices which block "access"
• With DD5 there is no provided way to turn this off 

What does the Filter do? / What is the functionality?

• Filters for device-valid animations. The goal is realistic animations for the devices worn
• Reverts to DD's private bound animations if there is heavy bondage (wrists restrained). This is limited to 2 actors
• Auto-hides devices (removes the 'render' part of a device) if needed to find a valid animation

What are the user's options?

• Two DD MCM settings to toggle "aggressiveness" and "use bound animations". This functionality is not clear to me as it's not consistent for all "modes" (the modes discussed below). I can't define the intended behavior, but know these settings make little difference to the outcomes below
• The toggle to turn off the Filter in the MCM has been removed in DD5, without any technical reason to do so

What are a mod author's options?

 

There are 3 options, and a 4th if a way is found to disable the filter. I will call them Modes, as follows...

 

Mode 1  To start a scene, use function calls to Sexlab only. Mod may not be using/requiring, or even aware of DD 

• DD intercepts after the Sexlab scene starts, doing the functionality above
• User/mod can't turn Filter off
  • Problems: All stability problems listed below / All behavior problems listed below
  • This mode can be unplayable, particularly with lots of blocking devices or creatures
    • This is the most common mode, essentially the default, in use by the majority of mods
    • This mode is forced upon all Sexlab scenes, just by having DD installed, with no choice to opt out

 

Mode 2  Use DD's function SelectValidAnimations(), then start the Sexlab scene by calling Sexlab

• DD intercepts after the Sexlab scene starts, doing the functionality above, often doing less than mode 1, since animations were already pre-filtered by SelectValidAnimations()
• User/mod can't turn Filter off
  • Problems: All stability problems listed below, but less frequent / All behavior problems listed below
  • This mode can be more playable than mode 1
    • This mode is used by few mods, Cursed Loot being the only one I know of

 

Mode 3  Use DD5's new StartValidAnimations(). DD takes care of starting the Sexlab scene

• All the functionality occurs before the Sexlab scene is called
• User/mod can't turn pre-Filtering off
• This function was added at my request, during beta testing, however I badly needed and asked for the option to turn the pre-filtering off, but this was not provided
  • Problems: All behavior changes listed below / Only the Stacked stability problem which is less frequent
  • In my case, even if "Stacked" were rare, the behavior problems make this mode incompatible for Shout Like a Virgin, breaking quests, therefor SLaV cannot use this mode in it's current form
    • This mode is new with DD5. Likely not used by any mod at the time of writing this, or possibly used in part by Cursed Loot 9 Beta

 

Mode 4  Disable the Filter. Use function calls to Sexlab only.

• None of the Filter functionality occurs. You still get the new DD5 gagged voice
  • Problems: Almost none. After hours of focused testing, maybe 1 Stacked out of 50 scenes. The key is that the behavior of Sexlab remains unchanged, as mods were designed and tested to expect
    • This mode is what Shout Like a Virgin used, until disabling the filter became forbidden

 

The problems can be broken into these 2 categories... Stability and Behavior. None are considered DD bugs, but nevertheless, they are problems that will impact mods, sometimes breaking them. It's a desgin problem. 

 

Scene Stability Problems

1. Startup Delay/resetting animation
   • A Sexlab animation starts, you see the entry animation, sometimes it progresses beyond the first stage, the animation being device inappropriate. Then the actors reset, and another animation starts. This can look pretty smooth and fast sometimes, but other times it can look very messy
   • The goal of realism is not achieved since it started with a a device inapporpriate animation. The restart is also very emersion breaking
2. Stacked 
   • Actors stand on top of each other, not animating. You don't see a functional scene
3. Stuck 
   • Actors start the first animation, and remain in that animation forever, or until you press the advance key to move through the stages. You don't see a functional scene
4. Misaligned/spinning around
   • Mostly only occurs for creatures. In my tests, almost always for certain creatures, like the wolf. You barely see a functional scene

IMO, each of these are unacceptable and breaking. Being forced to use this is extremaly unreasonable. A very bad trade-off in the name of realism. Problems are most common but not limited to scenes with... multiple blocking devices, particularly heavy bondage, and creatures. Problems are NOT related to number of actors or heavier script load.

 

Scene Behavior Change Problems

1. Scene Does not Start
   • This is what happens if no valid animation was found. You may see the "Startup Delay", then an abort. Or you may see no action occur at all
   • If this occurs and the mod has no fallback, quests can break. A user may not even realize a scene was meant to start
2. Device Hiding
   • Device hiding can be "story breaking". Example in Shout Like a Virgin... you are given a reason that a device is removed, it never happens silently, intentionally. This can also result in virginity loss, when it should not have been possible
3. Lack of Variety in Animations
   • This is not breaking, but not the same or expected user experience. Some people prefer variety over perfect realism, and will abandon a mod that does not give them this. They should have a choice, and not be forced
4. Delayed Startup
   • The added delay can be significant. Sexlab is not very fast to start scenes alone, and with DD's Filter, this delay can be doubled or tripled
   • Not fun when using something like SLaV's Love Shout while in combat where you expect fast action, or you would give up on the feature

I would predict that of all problems, including the Stability section, "Scene Does not Start" will have the most far reaching impact to existing mods, now with no option to turn the filter off in DD5's MCM. It will be hard for users to even realize that's what happened and report it correctly.

 

Testing results could vary depending on script load and computer specs. I used up-to-date hardware and a very minimal mod load, thus I believe the problems are NOT limited to a script heavy load order.

 

What's different in DD5 versus DD4?

• Bugs found during beta testing were fixed (I mean bugs, not the "problems" lists above which all remain). It's still far from well tested since almost no other major DD content mod author participated in the beta testing
• New function StartValidAnimations() was added. Defined as Mode 3 above
• I think the "device hiding" is new, or at least significantly more prevalent. This is adding to problems
• Gagged voices is new but not really part of the Filter. Still works if no filter
• Stability and behavior problems have existed for years, are about the same versus DD4, but there's differences, device hiding being the biggest

 

[Emeraldnoir]

I'm using this version, but I see no difference between speeds for the Hobble walk/bunny hop dress.

 

I set it to 70, slow.

I set it to 25, slow.

 

There was no difference between speeds. Am I doing something wrong? (This was checked on both values before and after wearing said hobble dress)

[Diziet]

9 hours ago, Emeraldnoir said:

I'm using this version, but I see no difference between speeds for the Hobble walk/bunny hop dress.

 

I set it to 70, slow.

I set it to 25, slow.

 

There was no difference between speeds. Am I doing something wrong? (This was checked on both values before and after wearing said hobble dress)

There are a number of other mods that that have settings to guarantee a minimum walking speed, check your mcm if you have any other mod has an influence on that. Unfortunately, I don't have access to my gaming rig right now, so i can't check the names, and my memory deserts me....

[Taki17]

13 hours ago, Fakein said:

I went around the entire Internet and so far I can not find anything.
Can you tell me some kind of mod?

 

[Zaflis]

12 hours ago, Emeraldnoir said:

I'm using this version, but I see no difference between speeds for the Hobble walk/bunny hop dress.

 

I set it to 70, slow.

I set it to 25, slow.

 

There was no difference between speeds. Am I doing something wrong? (This was checked on both values before and after wearing said hobble dress)

Hobble dresses usually set the carryweight max down by 500-900 or so. It's the being overburdened that slows you down, not speedmult.

You can add 1000 to your max carryweight if you want to not get effected by it.

[DayTri]

Anyone know a way to disable the struggle animations that play when trying to remove certain devices? I find these a bit tedious and prefer the old (DD3?) behavior where there were no struggle animations.

[Rogwar002]

2 hours ago, DayTri said:

Anyone know a way to disable the struggle animations that play when trying to remove certain devices? I find these a bit tedious and prefer the old (DD3?) behavior where there were no struggle animations.

You can disable the struggleIdles property in the CK or delete it in the inventory device using TESedit.

 

[DayTri]

Just now, Rogwar002 said:

You can disable the struggleIdles property in the CK or delete it in the inventory device using TESedit.

 

But it has to be done individually on each item right?

[Rogwar002]

9 minutes ago, DayTri said:

But it has to be done individually on each item right?

Yes, you are right.

[darkfender666]

Hi i am about to install this new version.

I have a question i didn't understand:

 

 

Will this conflict with Zaz or i an use both in the same installation?

 

There is still so much stuff depending from zaz i'd like to keep. 

 

Ty 

[tuxagent7]

4 minutes ago, darkfender666 said:

Will this conflict with Zaz or i an use both in the same installation?

You can have both in your load order

[Kimy]

On 12/13/2020 at 3:56 AM, donkeywho said:

1 - if I use DD5, will whatever you do prevent any animations in my, or anyone else's SLAL list, or even other source animations activated in Sexlab, activating in/being played by SexLab? 

Nothing. DD doesn't touch whatever animations you have installed.

 

When the chosen animation does not match any devices worn by actors participating in the scene, DD will replace them on the fly with a valid one, also chosen from SexLab/SLAL, or - in case actors' wrists are bound - from DD's own library. That's the entire point of the filter system.

If people don't like watching DD's bound animations, they can use the "Use Bound Animations" MCM toggle, and DD will not use them anymore. The filter will then hide restraints instead, so you won't see stupid things like arms popping out of armbinders etc. Yes, yes, I know that the toggle is currently broken. I will fix it in 5.1.

 

On 12/13/2020 at 3:56 AM, donkeywho said:

2 - will DD5 & DCL9, when used together, in any way restrict the choice of animations available to SexLab to their inbuilt animation libraries?   If so, in what circumstances?

They do not. DCL however, is making sure to pick only valid animations in the first place, so the DD filter will never do anything. E.g. DCL will always pick bound animations and only these when actors are tied up. And it won't pick vaginal intercourse scenes when chastity belts are worn.

 

The method used by DCL is a framework API function recommended to ALL DD mods for picking scenes, btw. It's not a DCL specific implementation, although I wrote it for DCL first before porting it to the framework.